EPTOk i just ran out of sarcasm.
consummate man seriously just get better and stop whining.
TvZ Balance Suggestions - Page 65
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trevf
United States237 Posts
Ok i just ran out of sarcasm. consummate man seriously just get better and stop whining. | ||
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Consummate
Australia191 Posts
You see, there are 2 things terribly wrong with that statement. 1. The number of sentries required to create an "unkitable" envrionment for Marauders depends on the terrain. This pretty much means you will need atleast 6 sentries for most situations, you will need to block behind the marauders, and behind your zealots so they're locked in. You see, in many situations, that is going to be quite A LOT of sentries. That means that for every sentry you put in, I put in another Marauder. 2. That assumes no Marauder micro whatsoever. If we assume all you're doing is ensuring they can't kite backwards (very stupid to assume), then you would be correct. But the fact that you can run *gasp* forward/up/down to kite them from another direction, means that you're wrong. @trevf Your destroyed logic and facts with a presumptuous statement that I think Terran are overpowered because I lose to them. I am kinda sick of having to explain that Siege tanks are the most cost efficient unit in the game that counters all ground units and that Marauders can kite their counter without being touched with a 50/50 upgrade to get a "lol get better" type of response, which is a pretty typical response that only enhances the fact that they can't admit they have been winning (and embarrassingly -losing) with the easy team. Pretty pathetic | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On August 13 2010 21:39 Consummate wrote: No kiting is equatable to what sentries can provide? Now I understand why Terrans won't concede their team is overpowered, they use the most ignorant statements to justify balance. You see, there are 2 things terribly wrong with that statement. 1. The number of sentries required to create an "unkitable" envrionment for Marauders depends on the terrain. This pretty much means you will need atleast 6 sentries for most situations, you will need to block behind the marauders, and behind your zealots so they're locked in. You see, in many situations, that is going to be quite A LOT of sentries. That means that for every sentry you put in, I put in another Marauder. 2. That assumes no Marauder micro whatsoever. If we assume all you're doing is ensuring they can't kite backwards (very stupid to assume), then you would be correct. But the fact that you can run *gasp* forward/up/down to kite them from another direction, means that you're wrong. It depends on the map, sure, but you don't really need that many. A sentry can throw down four force fields at full energy. Let's say they each have two, in a wide choke type environment. Now you forcefield behind them with say 4-6 force fields or 2-3 sentries, and you're good. More importantly, this doesn't really come into play, and, as trevf said, it's not an issue at high levels of play, which is honestly all I care about. | ||
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Deckkie
Netherlands1595 Posts
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On August 13 2010 21:39 Consummate wrote: That made me chuckle. Tanks counter immortals? Interesting. Tanks counter zerglings? Cool. Tanks counter marauders? Good to know. Have you seen how much gas tanks cost? They're bloody three supply too. And they're super vulnerable to air, so you need to escort them with either marines or the even more expensive thors. Not only that, they have to siege before they can attack, effectively, and they're vulnerable to flanks.@trevf Your destroyed logic and facts with a presumptuous statement that I think Terran are overpowered because I lose to them. I am kinda sick of having to explain that Siege tanks are the most cost efficient unit in the game that counters all ground units and that Marauders can kite their counter without being touched with a 50/50 upgrade to get a "lol get better" type of response, which is a pretty typical response that only enhances the fact that they can't admit they have been winning (and embarrassingly -losing) with the easy team. Pretty pathetic | ||
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Consummate
Australia191 Posts
Immortals do kill Siege tanks, but first they have to get past the MM blob to reach the siege tanks. You do know the siege tanks have massive range on siege mode yes? Same goes for Zerglings. That's the point behind the TvZ imbalance. To kill the siege tanks, you need air since they're only vulnerable to that in a fight. But to kill siege tanks with mutas, first you have to dodge that massive MM blob that will drop your mutas pretty quickly, even if you do, you've lost the rest of your army in the process unless of course you had an army that was a lot bigger than his (which would be pretty bias to assume that). Killing siege tanks in both the TvP and TvZ match up require you to have an army a lot bigger than theirs so you can flank them. Flanking means you're splitting your army up, and if you split your army up, they will get smashed to pieces one after the other, unless of course, your army was bigger to begin with. And Z + P's counter to the MMM blob come at T3 and are very costly. What's your point? | ||
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merz
Sweden2760 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/786/screenshot2010081314264.jpg) | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On August 13 2010 21:46 Consummate wrote: And that's my point. You need terrain that is favourable for sentry forcefields or otherwise you just get kited to death. Immortals do kill Siege tanks, but first they have to get past the MM blob to reach the siege tanks. You do know the siege tanks have massive range on siege mode yes? Same goes for Zerglings. Then that's an issue with ALL of terran, or just bio mech, not just tanks. But that's not an issue with tanks. | ||
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Consummate
Australia191 Posts
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On August 13 2010 21:54 Consummate wrote: No, the problem is the feasibility of the counter to tanks for both Z and P, atm, they're both unfeasible. Which means the problem is with tanks since their counters don't work effectively. Proof? Saying arbitrary statements with no backing isn't what these forums are for. @meRz: *wi-five* What game is that from? EDIT: Proof was probably the wrong thing to say. What I meant was elaborate on what you said, instead of saying, "This is bad," say "This is bad because of blah." | ||
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DaZe
Sweden2111 Posts
On August 13 2010 21:46 meRz wrote: LaLuSh has apparently found a new way to deal with the ZvT imbalance, I believe it's called the IdrA approach. + Show Spoiler + lol pwned. | ||
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Consummate
Australia191 Posts
On August 13 2010 21:56 MythicalMage wrote: Proof? Saying arbitrary statements with no backing isn't what these forums are for. @meRz: *wi-five* What game is that from? EDIT: Proof was probably the wrong thing to say. What I meant was elaborate on what you said, instead of saying, "This is bad," say "This is bad because of blah." I don't think I need to give you proof when your proof that Zealots + Sentries counter Marauders is that you need equal amount of Zealots to his Marauders and X (undefined) amount of Sentries to forcefield block his paths which is determined by the area you fight in. | ||
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trevf
United States237 Posts
On August 13 2010 21:39 Consummate wrote: @trevf I am kinda sick of having to explain that Siege tanks are the most cost efficient unit in the game that counters all ground units and that Marauders can kite their counter without being touched with a 50/50 upgrade to get a "lol get better" I'll even help you, step 1. get an observer step 2. dont a-move into siege mode tanks step 3. expand / wait for siege tanks to unsiege step 4. attack unsieged siege tanks. step 5. gg You're right, siege tanks are the most cost efficient unit in the game when it comes to killing other ground units while in siege mode, but in order to be able to do that they have to have a wall of protection in front of them and have to be sieged up and properly spaced. That is their weakness. Learn to exploit it and in the mean time stop acting like Terran are IMBA because you haven't figured this shit out. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
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Puosu
7044 Posts
On August 13 2010 21:46 meRz wrote: LaLuSh has apparently found a new way to deal with the ZvT imbalance, I believe it's called the IdrA approach. + Show Spoiler + He does have a point though, people from Finland are probably the most cheesiest fags you can find on the ladder. I guess mainly it's because most of the players come from WC3 and tend to have micro and 1 base play as their main strengths. I guess you being from Sweden he kinda self owned himself but such is life. Also gotta love that additional "i" in the ragequit message, it seems to be a tradition. | ||
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Consummate
Australia191 Posts
On August 13 2010 22:05 trevf wrote: I'll even help you, step 1. get an observer step 2. dont a-move into siege mode tanks step 3. expand / wait for siege tanks to unsiege step 4. attack unsieged siege tanks. step 5. gg You're right, siege tanks are the most cost efficient unit in the game when it comes to killing other ground units while in siege mode, but in order to be able to do that they have to have a wall of protection in front of them and have to be sieged up and properly spaced. That is their weakness. Learn to exploit it and in the mean time stop acting like Terran are IMBA because you haven't figured this shit out. Oh right, we are talking about attacking a turtling Terran? Ok, so, if it isn't a turtling Terran, then step 2,3,4,5 don't work if they actually attack your base - do they? Oh and, I really love your "run past all the Marines/Marauders and go straight for the siege tanks" strat, ROFL. No wonder I see pros doing it all the time (lol). | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On August 13 2010 22:05 trevf wrote: I'll even help you, step 1. get an observer step 2. dont a-move into siege mode tanks step 3. expand / wait for siege tanks to unsiege step 4. attack unsieged siege tanks. step 5. gg You're right, siege tanks are the most cost efficient unit in the game when it comes to killing other ground units while in siege mode, but in order to be able to do that they have to have a wall of protection in front of them and have to be sieged up and properly spaced. That is their weakness. Learn to exploit it and in the mean time stop acting like Terran are IMBA because you haven't figured this shit out. you're absolutely right, it is absolutely insanely hard to unsiege and move tank-by-tank instead of unsiege-move-siege'ing all tanks at once. no terran could ever do that (and LOL with the skill level all top terrans have currently they probably really couldn't!). | ||
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Consummate
Australia191 Posts
loving the double standards mate. I love the whole "you gotta scout" thing that doesn't apply to your own team. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On August 13 2010 22:16 Consummate wrote: Watch him bring up that everyone has to scout where the Terran army is (so you don't run into siege tanks) but Terran don't have to scout where the enemy army is (so their Siege tanks don't get caught without Siege mode) loving the double standards mate. I love the whole "you gotta scout" thing that doesn't apply to your own team. Have you seen a pro player play mech? There are constant scans just about everywhere on the map, as well as vikings, and hellions and the occasional floating building. Scouting is something Terran has to do with mech. Bio mech is more about pushing so scouting comes from that push, and I dunno about whatever else you were talking about. | ||
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trevf
United States237 Posts
the point is if a terran is going mech hes not going to be mobile and you have to abuse that fact. or you could QQ all day on a forum which just makes it look like blizzard should bring back the copper league so you can have somewhere to go 50/50 win-loss. | ||
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