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Since I play protoss I feel PvZ is balanced and PvT is terran favored.
PvZ will feel protoss favored if the zerg has not discovered ultralisks. Colossus rape the more common hydralisk mass armies.
PvT is Terran favored because of the power and mobility of bionic. Small force marauder assaults are ridiculously cost efficient. Warpin defense can be negated because 1 marauder > 1 gateway unit in small force situations. Storms are so easily dodged in these small scale battles so you are left fighting head on. Protoss have resorted to going down 2 tech paths on one base to deal with Terrans early shenanigans as well (whitera void/charge, huk robo/charge for 2 recent examples)
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Even though these are just people's opinions about who is the most favored. I expect to see after a year, people will discover all kinds of new ways to dominate in the game with each race. I am guessing that most people feel terran is the strongest due to their units all having range, and balls + range tend to do exceptionally well when the other player doesn't have a counter to the ball. Not to mention that in 2v2's, the terran players usually have higher scores and more dominating armies due to the range in a big battle.
But I do think that PvZ is the most fun because age old battle of aliens in outer space =D
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poll won't work because forums are >90% noobs.
noobs improve = results change.
imo it's all fairly balanced except protoss vs terran - very hard for protoss to win in the late game. all terran has to do is turtle and harrass a bit.
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On July 14 2010 03:36 starcat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2010 03:23 Sadistx wrote:
TvZ is Z favored atm (tank nerfs, continuous ultra buffs, fungal growth = rofl)
i laughed. keep dreaming brah.
Posts like these from silver league unknowns is why I very rarely post on SC2 forums. They don't know how to play, misinterpret every available piece of info they have and you can't change their opinion :/
User was warned for this post
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On July 14 2010 04:07 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2010 03:36 starcat wrote:On July 14 2010 03:23 Sadistx wrote:
TvZ is Z favored atm (tank nerfs, continuous ultra buffs, fungal growth = rofl)
i laughed. keep dreaming brah. Posts like these from silver league unknowns is why I very rarely post on SC2 forums. They don't know how to play, misinterpret every available piece of info they have and you can't change their opinion :/
Funny, was about to say the same thing.
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On July 14 2010 03:54 kNyTTyM wrote:
Since I play protoss I feel PvZ is balanced and PvT is terran favored.
PvZ will feel protoss favored if the zerg has not discovered ultralisks. Colossus rape the more common hydralisk mass armies.
PvT is Terran favored because of the power and mobility of bionic. Small force marauder assaults are ridiculously cost efficient. Warpin defense can be negated because 1 marauder > 1 gateway unit in small force situations. Storms are so easily dodged in these small scale battles so you are left fighting head on. Protoss have resorted to going down 2 tech paths on one base to deal with Terrans early shenanigans as well (whitera void/charge, huk robo/charge for 2 recent examples)
If you're having trouble with early bio: Use forcefield and don't leave your base for awhile. Alternatively, leave your base very early and don't let T leave their base for awhile. Why people want to let me kite them forever I will never understand.
Also, you don't HAVE to make that stupid void ray if you don't want to, since everyone is ready for it now anyway. Or even better, make it, and don't lose it trying to kill 3 scvs, run away if you see 5 marines and a starport. Alternatively you can just make sentries/zealots and make sure you chrono out charge, forcefield plus chargelots is very effective versus terran infantry. Not only do you not have to go down multiple tech paths, I wouldn't look at it like it's a bad thing... getting that stargate early means super effective scouting and excellent harass (phoenix) as well as game changing high DPS units (void rays ofc).
And I dunno what league your in but if you're at storm tech, the battles ought to be bigger than 'small scale' unless you are rushing to it, which is pointless except vers marine spam.
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On July 14 2010 04:17 starcat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2010 04:07 Sadistx wrote:On July 14 2010 03:36 starcat wrote:On July 14 2010 03:23 Sadistx wrote:
TvZ is Z favored atm (tank nerfs, continuous ultra buffs, fungal growth = rofl)
i laughed. keep dreaming brah. Posts like these from silver league unknowns is why I very rarely post on SC2 forums. They don't know how to play, misinterpret every available piece of info they have and you can't change their opinion :/ Funny, was about to say the same thing.
Post SOMETHING of substance if you're going to argue/be a dick. Sadist actually gave a reason for his opinion.
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Why do maps so rarely get mentioned in SC2 balance discusions...
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One thing is for sure, this thread needs more banlings.
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Polls like these are worth reading just for the rage posts.
I'm currently a Random player, but for the first phase played Zerg.
I would say that in it's current iteration TvZ is Terran favored. I think it's possible to change that given some time, but as it is, Terran has all the options for early aggression, and once they get to mid/late-game Tanks just utterly rule the day. That's not to say that a Zerg player can't win or something, it's not that bad. I think that once Zerg players figure out how to safely stop Terran harassment without bending over backwards, the match-up will balance itself.
ZvP is definitely my favorite match up. It's well balanced, dynamic, and just plain fun. It may even be slightly Zerg favored these days, since we've learned to beat back the various Protoss timing pushes.
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On July 14 2010 03:23 Sadistx wrote:
Just like the previous poll showed, the general public has no idea wtf it's talking about.
TvZ is Z favored atm (tank nerfs, continuous ultra buffs, fungal growth = rofl)
TvP is T favored.
ZvP is Z favored again.
I totally agree with you. tanks are not so good against hydras.
fungal growth is more OP than BW's dark swarm. against dark swarm T can just move back his army and thats it, but with fungal growth you can't move, you will be flanked and it does damage.
there is nothing better than the lava system and broodlords/ultras/infestors are the shit.
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I'm actually going to clarify what I meant when I said TvZ is Z favored.
If you go for an MMM build and don't pressure zerg's 2nd hatch, it becomes increasingly hard to deal with Z's units with just bio. After the ultra buffs and zergs getting much better with infestors, pure bio play becomes non-viable past mid-game.
The overwhelming amount of counters Z has to the MMM ball makes it very hard to go the equivalent of SKTerran in SC2. So you are essentially forced to go mech to deal with that. On higher levels MMM will just get rolled unless you go for a 17CC off 2 marines, which is very risky.
MMM supported by 2-3 tanks still kinda works, but it depends heavily on keeping tanks alive.
Terran mech is absolutely fine vs Z, it's MMM that's weak.
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On July 14 2010 04:46 Sadistx wrote:
I'm actually going to clarify what I meant when I said TvZ is Z favored.
If you go for an MMM build and don't pressure zerg's 2nd hatch, it becomes increasingly hard to deal with Z's units with just bio. After the ultra buffs and zergs getting much better with infestors, pure bio play becomes non-viable past mid-game.
The overwhelming amount of counters Z has to the MMM ball makes it very hard to go the equivalent of SKTerran in SC2. So you are essentially forced to go mech to deal with that. On higher levels MMM will just get rolled unless you go for a 17CC off 2 marines, which is very risky.
MMM supported by 2-3 tanks still kinda works, but it depends heavily on keeping tanks alive.
Terran mech is absolutely fine vs Z, it's MMM that's weak.
I promise I don't mean to provoke anything, but do you think Terran really should be able to roll a Zerg player without ever pressuring his FE and using only tier 1/1.5 units? I don't really think that speaks to a racial imbalance; to me it sounds like that's the way it should be.
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How the hell is TvP Terran favored? I thought there was a pretty clear general consensus on the opposite.
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Terran mech... especially with roach nerf
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On July 14 2010 04:46 Sadistx wrote:
I'm actually going to clarify what I meant when I said TvZ is Z favored.
If you go for an MMM build and don't pressure zerg's 2nd hatch, it becomes increasingly hard to deal with Z's units with just bio. After the ultra buffs and zergs getting much better with infestors, pure bio play becomes non-viable past mid-game.
The overwhelming amount of counters Z has to the MMM ball makes it very hard to go the equivalent of SKTerran in SC2. So you are essentially forced to go mech to deal with that. On higher levels MMM will just get rolled unless you go for a 17CC off 2 marines, which is very risky.
MMM supported by 2-3 tanks still kinda works, but it depends heavily on keeping tanks alive.
Terran mech is absolutely fine vs Z, it's MMM that's weak.
But wouldn't that be like saying bio is weak against P in BW? Yet that doesn't make the overall match-up imbalanced.
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These polls are always worthless because they're not equally sampled. Less T players than P or Z players voted in the polls (visible by the fact that less TvX matchups are 'most fun' than the other ones).
Poll just goes to show that the average reader on TL is stupid and complains too much. It just gives them reason to blame game imbalance when they lose. I really hate these kind of threads because they just feed the game balance victimization syndrome.
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On July 14 2010 04:46 Sadistx wrote:
I'm actually going to clarify what I meant when I said TvZ is Z favored.
If you go for an MMM build and don't pressure zerg's 2nd hatch, it becomes increasingly hard to deal with Z's units with just bio. After the ultra buffs and zergs getting much better with infestors, pure bio play becomes non-viable past mid-game.
The overwhelming amount of counters Z has to the MMM ball makes it very hard to go the equivalent of SKTerran in SC2. So you are essentially forced to go mech to deal with that. On higher levels MMM will just get rolled unless you go for a 17CC off 2 marines, which is very risky.
MMM supported by 2-3 tanks still kinda works, but it depends heavily on keeping tanks alive.
Terran mech is absolutely fine vs Z, it's MMM that's weak.
Isn't part of the game plan of going for a MMM build to try and pressure zergs early while taking your own expansions and transitioning into further tech units? If you're not doing that then of course MMM is weak. It is not Z is favored in ZvT then, it is the fact that the build hasn't been executed properly.
It's like saying.. if you are going for a colossus drop.. and then leaving your warp prism sitting there and not dropping it. Then of course a colossus drop is going to be weak.
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United States10774 Posts
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On July 14 2010 04:56 iEchoic wrote:
These polls are always worthless because they're not equally sampled. Less T players than P or Z players voted in the polls (visible by the fact that less TvX matchups are 'most fun' than the other ones).
Poll just goes to show that the average reader on TL is stupid and complains too much. It just gives them reason to blame game imbalance when they lose. I really hate these kind of threads because they just feed the game balance victimization syndrome.
Too true. Polls are like top 10 rankings. The purpose is not to be accurate, but to generate artificial controversy for the sake of entertainment.
They sure are fun when you're trying to get through the work day, though.
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EPT
