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On June 02 2010 05:38 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 05:35 teamsolid wrote:
How exactly does this change ZvT mech at all? Vikings ground attack has never been important, it's the tanks/thors that are the problem. roach/infestor are now better, making burrowed roaches more effective, and making it easier to position infestors for NP'ing thors. However the main change is that ultralisk is now viable late-game against mech: -health buff + speed buff makes it easier to close the gap against tanks without dying -ultra now require 1 less upgrade to be useful, which means they can come out faster
Increasing roach regen while burrowed barely makes them better, they're usually full HP while burrowed anyways. NP thors isn't very useful when siege tanks can still 1-shot them from 13 range after they start channeling. Also... 50 HP doesn't make ultras viable, it just makes them suck "slightly" less.
I'm guessing they want the counter to mech to be Roach + Infestor + Ultras.... then WHY did the fuck did they nerf roaches to 2 supply just 2 patches ago? They REDUCED our dependence on roaches and now they're trying to make us rely on them again?
Makes no sense.
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Maybe internally their Protoss'es have a super secret broken TvP strat.
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The archon change is actually somewhat significant. In my experience the most common use is to storm once with each templar as a fight starts and then immediately begin morphing. 17 seconds typically gave you some archons after the entire rest of the army was dead...and simply made the enemy waste a few more shots popping them. They are actually quite good when there's just armies left after the big ball combat sorts itself out.
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lol I can't wait to read their reasoning for the archon changes
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ok another nerf thanks blizz
or are there zergs who actually use burrow/regen-move/unborrow mechanic? (especially infestor, i cant understand why infestor even need the ability to burrow at all, not to mention burrowed movement lol)
i dont, so this patch is clearly nerf, now 100/100 insetad of 50/50. ok.
Ah yea, sorry, like it was mentioned that uberbuff to infested lolz0rs is clearly game breaking stuff, thanks blizz, we are happy now. :cool:
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toss just be happy you didnt get nerfed again. i was really hoping this patch would help zerg fight terran mech, it appears it did not 
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Damn, when will we see new ladder maps ?
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On June 02 2010 05:31 Yokoblue wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 05:27 z]Benny wrote:
I am honestly very very confused. Wasn't the Beta supposed to end on May 31st??? because of mistakes made by Blizz they extended the time. Look at the News tab in SC2
Sorry, I still can't find out, could you provide a link?
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They may as well have never even introduced this patch, seeing as it didn't resolve a single real balance issue. Just some shallow shuffling around of upgrades/stats that will have almost no impact on gameplay. Well done blizzard, you really know how to make us ALMOST think that you care or know what you're doing.
How hard is it to make some terran changes. PvZ is more or less balanced, any kind of imbalance will only really be discovered after a real competitive scene has emerged (good accomplishment by the beta, should be the balance goal) but it's obvious to any random silver league scrub that TvP and TvZ are stupidly imbalanced.
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On June 02 2010 05:45 Spiffeh wrote:
lol I can't wait to read their reasoning for the archon changes
I would think it's pretty obvious they want templars to be useful after they blow their storms.
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On June 02 2010 05:45 Trok67 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 05:38 BlasiuS wrote:On June 02 2010 05:35 teamsolid wrote:
How exactly does this change ZvT mech at all? Vikings ground attack has never been important, it's the tanks/thors that are the problem. roach/infestor are now better, making burrowed roaches more effective, and making it easier to position infestors for NP'ing thors. However the main change is that ultralisk is now viable late-game against mech: -health buff + speed buff makes it easier to close the gap against tanks without dying -ultra now require 1 less upgrade to be useful, which means they can come out faster hmmmm.... no. Ultra is still not viable against mech, Broodlords is still a 1000x better solution against mech. NP is a useless spell, our infestor will still die instantly as soon as you use it, if the player you play against isnt super bad. In fact I haven't seen infestors used for anything else than NP in any game involving 2 good players. Only time i have seen NP it was either complete failure or in a battle that have allready been won by zerg player. Nothing will change with this patch, changes aren't bad the are just irrevelant.
disagree, infestors have died because they weren't positioned correctly, now with good burrow micro they will be more used.
As for broodlords being better than ultra, well, that may have been true before, but I think with this patch ultra > broodlord against mech (good terrans will always have vikings ready in case of broodlords)
On June 02 2010 05:45 teamsolid wrote:
Increasing roach regen while burrowed barely makes them better, they're usually full HP while burrowed anyways. NP thors isn't very useful when siege tanks can still 1-shot them from 13 range after they start channeling. Also... 50 HP doesn't make ultras viable, it just makes them suck "slightly" less.
You ignored the speed buff, which is the major reason why ultras are improved against tanks.
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In response to some of the people on here, I think the reduction in research cost/time for roaches and ultras does actually help alot versus mech. Probably moreso than people think. Only testing will tell I guess.
Based on very limited testing, I feel ultras are better than people give them credit for. Now they are faster "out of the box," which makes them useful as soon as they are built. From my few games of using them, the biggest problem was that you HAD to research speed first to make them even halfway decent. Now you can just get +2 armor right away, which is pretty significant imo.
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On June 02 2010 05:46 zergporn wrote:
ok another nerf thanks blizz
or are there zergs who actually use burrow/unborrow mechanic? (especially infestor, i cant understand why infestor even need the ability to burrow at all, not to mention burrowed movement lol)
i dont, so this patch is clearly nerf, now 100/100 insetad of 50/50. ok.
Ah yea, sorry, like it was mentioned that uberbuff to infested lolz0rs is clearly game breaking stuff, thanks blizz, we are happy now. :cool:
where do you see a zerg nerf? maybe you should explain it...
edit
i understand now. you dont use units/techs of your race so every buff to them is non sense and every 50/50 upgrade that gets more expensive and that every idiot is upgrading (even if he doenst need it) is a nerf.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Overseer
Infested Terran energy cost decreased from 125 to 100.
Amazing change /SARCASM
God, this spell is just such a joke - it's almost like saying "hey we want this unit to have 3 abilites but we can't think of anything actually useful so here's something you'll never use".
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Unfortuantely Liquipedia doesnt have the hard numbers on the default roch regen rate ...but from what i've been able to find is that it was +5hp/sec before the T3 upgrade and 15hp/sec after the upgrade ...so yay for another roach nerf
Any half decent terran will get a turret/raven when going mech anyway so those changes dont even touch TvZ problem. Oh ultralisk ... ROFL
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Roach change seems cute but really when do roaches ever take much damage and live to tell the tale? Their main role at the moment is ram into mech armies and then dying. Maybe it'll encourage more roach aggression and small army play.
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On June 02 2010 05:46 zergporn wrote:
ok another nerf thanks blizz
or are there zergs who actually use burrow/regen-move/unborrow mechanic? (especially infestor, i cant understand why infestor even need the ability to burrow at all, not to mention burrowed movement lol)
i dont, so this patch is clearly nerf, now 100/100 insetad of 50/50. ok.
Ah yea, sorry, like it was mentioned that uberbuff to infested lolz0rs is clearly game breaking stuff, thanks blizz, we are happy now. :cool:
Wow... really? This post is especially aggravating since it came from a zerg player.
The overlord speed is indeed a bit of a nerf but I think it introduces an interesting element when it comes to tension with regards to overseer vs. speed.
Just because you don't use the abilities which they did buff doesn't mean you can disregard them. Maybe this is more reason to start burrowing your infestors.
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On June 02 2010 05:47 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 05:45 Trok67 wrote:On June 02 2010 05:38 BlasiuS wrote:On June 02 2010 05:35 teamsolid wrote:
How exactly does this change ZvT mech at all? Vikings ground attack has never been important, it's the tanks/thors that are the problem. roach/infestor are now better, making burrowed roaches more effective, and making it easier to position infestors for NP'ing thors. However the main change is that ultralisk is now viable late-game against mech: -health buff + speed buff makes it easier to close the gap against tanks without dying -ultra now require 1 less upgrade to be useful, which means they can come out faster hmmmm.... no. Ultra is still not viable against mech, Broodlords is still a 1000x better solution against mech. NP is a useless spell, our infestor will still die instantly as soon as you use it, if the player you play against isnt super bad. In fact I haven't seen infestors used for anything else than NP in any game involving 2 good players. Only time i have seen NP it was either complete failure or in a battle that have allready been won by zerg player. Nothing will change with this patch, changes aren't bad the are just irrevelant. disagree, infestors have died because they weren't positioned correctly, now with good burrow micro they will be more used. As for broodlords being better than ultra, well, that may have been true before, but I think with this patch ultra > broodlord against mech (good terrans will always have vikings ready in case of broodlords)
so no good players use infestor for NP just because they all dont know how to place their infestors ? Why do you mean 'with good burrow micro' ? cause i simply dont see what change about the fact that once you NP the thor/colossus your infestor having 9 range will be instantly killed by tanks/colossus ? plz show me a replay against a good terran/protoss player while using your 'good burrow micro' cause at the moment i simply dont see how its possible
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pretty meh changes, terran infantry and mech still absurd.
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EPT
