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On June 02 2010 18:09 lololol wrote:
Terran doesn't have a proper air counter to vikings and the ground counters are getting destroyed by tanks before they can do anything. The problem is not viking ground damage at all.
For example in PvP it's phoenix > void ray > carrier > phoenix, while TvT air is Vikings > BCs and that's it, there's no proper counter system, and there isn't any effective ground counter to them either, because of siege tank support and BCs owning thors/marines by themselves.
Vikings also have pretty ridiculous range(in BW the only unit that had more than 8 was the siege tank) and they are cost effective against every other air unit in the game, it's vikings > all, unless the other player has more resources invested in his air units(practically only PvP has decent AtA balance).
They said they are willing to add new units if necessary, but their definition of "necessary" is "never", since during the whole beta zerg had less units and was pretty bland and there were tons of complains about air balance. The new units will be pretty much the only selling point for the expansions for players interested in competitive multiplayer, so they are just holding them back.
Don't mutas beat vikings at equal resource costs? I imagine corruptors would too but I'm not sure.
Either way Terran need a more effective counter to them, I think Thors should go back to 8(+4) instead of 6(+6). Would at least be a start, really not sure why they changed that, basically forces thors to be anti-muta and nothing else.
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On June 02 2010 18:01 zephon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:13 Jokey665 wrote:On June 02 2010 09:45 Grimjim wrote:
EMP should set the charge of Void Rays back to 0. I was just going to say this. I'd also like it to break force fields, but that's probably a bit much. EMP should also shutdown the toss player's minimap, and invert their hotkeys!
sarcasm win
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Viking ground damage reduced from 14 to 12 makes sense because SCVs required 4 shots to kill so why not Probes/Drones as well?
9R without the need of an upgrade for a basic air unit is ridiculous - 6/7R with a +3/+2R 150/150/100 upgrade is far more balanced
10+4A(2) attack - 8+4A(2) makes light air the direct Viking counter while only losing 2DPS V armored
150M 75G - Terrans have lots of extra minerals in Sc2 due to MULES so gas reduction was unnecessary
Reactors - 2nd Viking should cost +25G to procure or +10BT (50BT for both Vikings would also do)
Marauders: +25G and or Ling speed upgrade/Zealot Charge completely ignores slow
Protoss:
Phoenix damage changed to 10+10L - light air takes the same amount of damage while armor damage reduction is halved
Graviton Beam range = 6 - Cyber Core Upgrade requires Stargate to unlock
Archons deal 2 radius 10 damage enemy splash when killed(even when merging)
MS - Vortex = instant cast duration +5-10 seconds or completely removed in lieu of faster movement speed
Interceptors have a new upgrade that reduces GtA damage by 50% or makes them too fast to be targeted for X seconds(Fleet Beacon would house ability to prevent abuse)
Ludicrous Speed will be Fleets' ability with Rick Moranis voice when activated
Zerg:
Infested Marines 200E - produces 2 Marines and 1 Firebat
Movement speed starts off normal but slows as timer(30 seconds) runs down
Can Burrow and stop timer but Overseer max E = 100 while doing so
Lair 2A Hive 4A
New Hive upgrade - Burrow Regen - increases regen rate of burrowed units by +50%
AOE = within 4 range of Hatchs or 2R of Creep Tumors
Crawlers Unburrow/Burrow speed greatly increased when directly above Creep Tumor
-20% damage for 30 seconds too WC Bliz! Freenzy equally WCish
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On June 02 2010 05:09 Capteone wrote:
source?
at the top there's a link to it at blizzards patch notes thread. It's legit.
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On June 02 2010 20:07 Zealot_Alec wrote:
Viking ground damage reduced from 14 to 12 makes sense because SCVs required 4 shots to kill so why not Probes/Drones as well?
9R without the need of an upgrade for a basic air unit is ridiculous - 6/7R with a +3/+2R 150/150/100 upgrade is far more balanced
10+4A(2) attack - 8+4A(2) makes light air the direct Viking counter while only losing 2DPS V armored
150M 75G - Terrans have lots of extra minerals in Sc2 due to MULES so gas reduction was unnecessary
Reactors - 2nd Viking should cost +25G to procure or +10BT (50BT for both Vikings would also do)
Marauders: +25G and or Ling speed upgrade/Zealot Charge completely ignores slow
Protoss:
Phoenix damage changed to 10+10L - light air takes the same amount of damage while armor damage reduction is halved
Graviton Beam range = 6 - Cyber Core Upgrade requires Stargate to unlock
Archons deal 2 radius 10 damage enemy splash when killed(even when merging)
MS - Vortex = instant cast duration +5-10 seconds or completely removed in lieu of faster movement speed
Interceptors have a new upgrade that reduces GtA damage by 50% or makes them too fast to be targeted for X seconds(Fleet Beacon would house ability to prevent abuse)
Ludicrous Speed will be Fleets' ability with Rick Moranis voice when activated
Zerg:
Infested Marines 200E - produces 2 Marines and 1 Firebat
Movement speed starts off normal but slows as timer(30 seconds) runs down
Can Burrow and stop timer but Overseer max E = 100 while doing so
Lair 2A Hive 4A
New Hive upgrade - Burrow Regen - increases regen rate of burrowed units by +50%
AOE = within 4 range of Hatchs or 2R of Creep Tumors
Crawlers Unburrow/Burrow speed greatly increased when directly above Creep Tumor
-20% damage for 30 seconds too WC Bliz! Freenzy equally WCish
Lol wut? Are you on crack or something...
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Holy crap a patch where the roach is actually buffed! I didn't ever think I would see the day...
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On June 02 2010 05:33 whaTITdoz wrote:
Anyone know if this fixed the black mini-map bug in-game or for watching replays? I haven't been able to watch replays since patch 13 because of the black mini-map bug.
If you drag the replay file onto the sc2switcher.exe program, the replay will load w/ the mini-map!
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On June 02 2010 05:19 asdfTT123 wrote:
LOL! Decreased Archon warp time by 5 seconds? That's the last buff that P needs. Thanks Blizzard for an amazing job well done, as always. -_-
Actually that's a very good buff, at this point in time high templars tend to be tossed asside in favor of collosi, and if it makes it so that once they run out of energy you can change them into archon's (underused imo) It will make more ht gameplay.
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I love when people doubt that the Patch Notes are real. Like people don't have anything better to do than post fake patch notes.
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me love this patch
thanks burrow roach^^
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On June 02 2010 05:25 professorjoak wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 05:22 Chill wrote:
Why is it 2.9531? Does Blizzard really need accuracy to 4 decimal places? 61/64 = 0.953125 edit: the technical reason why we need a power of 2: + Show Spoiler +To be more specific, 2.95 does not have an exact representation in finite precision floating point arithmetic because the number is binary when in the computer. If the denominator is a power of 2, however, the number can be represented exactly. You'll accumulate roundoff error over time because you are adding 2.95+error to itself every timestep. It's probably not a big deal; most likely it would just give your hydralisk has an unnoticeably small random variation in speed, but it might lead to weird collision detection bugs so it's best to just remove the ambiguity and work in powers of 2. Real-world example of when counting time in a base-10 increment instead of a base-2 increment caused roundoff error that made a Patriot Missile system fail during the Gulf War: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/RoundoffError.html
Thx 
posts like this one makes TL.net an interesting forum.
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I have quickly checked this out in the morning and got the impression that Viking ground attack is not only down from 14 to 12, but also the attack rate down from normal to slow. Can anyone check and confirm?
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On June 02 2010 18:13 shawabawa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 18:09 lololol wrote:
Terran doesn't have a proper air counter to vikings and the ground counters are getting destroyed by tanks before they can do anything. The problem is not viking ground damage at all.
For example in PvP it's phoenix > void ray > carrier > phoenix, while TvT air is Vikings > BCs and that's it, there's no proper counter system, and there isn't any effective ground counter to them either, because of siege tank support and BCs owning thors/marines by themselves.
Vikings also have pretty ridiculous range(in BW the only unit that had more than 8 was the siege tank) and they are cost effective against every other air unit in the game, it's vikings > all, unless the other player has more resources invested in his air units(practically only PvP has decent AtA balance).
They said they are willing to add new units if necessary, but their definition of "necessary" is "never", since during the whole beta zerg had less units and was pretty bland and there were tons of complains about air balance. The new units will be pretty much the only selling point for the expansions for players interested in competitive multiplayer, so they are just holding them back. Don't mutas beat vikings at equal resource costs? I imagine corruptors would too but I'm not sure. Either way Terran need a more effective counter to them, I think Thors should go back to 8(+4) instead of 6(+6). Would at least be a start, really not sure why they changed that, basically forces thors to be anti-muta and nothing else.
No to both, but if the zerg has enough of a resource advantage he can overwhelm the vikings with a big ball of corruptors or mutas(less corruptors are needed compared to mutas), but cost for cost there's simply no way to match them in the air.
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On June 02 2010 20:40 gedassan wrote:
I have quickly checked this out in the morning and got the impression that Viking ground attack is not only down from 14 to 12, but also the attack rate down from normal to slow. Can anyone check and confirm?
Viking's ground attack cooldown is still 1 second.
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Wait, if Ultra's are as fast as zerglings....if you get the speed upgrade for them does that mean they are as fast as speedlings?
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On June 02 2010 21:51 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 20:40 gedassan wrote:
I have quickly checked this out in the morning and got the impression that Viking ground attack is not only down from 14 to 12, but also the attack rate down from normal to slow. Can anyone check and confirm?
Viking's ground attack cooldown is still 1 second.
Cool, thank you.
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Germany132 Posts
On June 02 2010 22:26 Fruscainte wrote:
Wait, if Ultra's are as fast as zerglings....if you get the speed upgrade for them does that mean they are as fast as speedlings?
AFAIK Ultras, as of patch 14, are as fast as zerglings. Speedlings outrun them by far.
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patch14 was more like a polishing patch compared to the others ..... definetly last patch before retail
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On June 02 2010 22:51 MindRush wrote:
patch14 was more like a polishing patch compared to the others ..... definetly last patch before retail
still hoping for one more during phase 2
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On June 02 2010 22:54 jamesr12 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 22:51 MindRush wrote:
patch14 was more like a polishing patch compared to the others ..... definetly last patch before retail still hoping for one more during phase 2
i hope phase2 will be something like :
"fuck phase2, we are releasing the game already" 
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EPT
