• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:42
CET 15:42
KST 23:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Dark completes military service, returns to SC28[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage19Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Hva gjør et gamingnettsted vellykket utover godt Dark completes military service, returns to SC2 Greetings.. Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind
Tourneys
Dark returns! GSL CK #7 4v4 Team Battle (Nov 19) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
Starcraft:Brood War Discord Servers List of top players active on ShieldBattery [BSL23] RO16 Group Stage Starcraft player cRuZa Passed away. Recommended BW Settings for Mouse and Video
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Pluto's TvP 5Marine 2Medic Push Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09
Other Games
General Games
Free Space RTS Game, optimised f. Phone/Tablet etc Nintendo Switch Thread List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Can Game Data Analytics Help Players Improvements
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
VCT 2027 America Kickoff LAT…
anakin.
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12040 users

Patch 14 Changes - Page 28

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 26 27 28 29 Next All
Champi
Profile Joined March 2010
1422 Posts
June 02 2010 23:59 GMT
#541
dont think this ultra change will make the slightest difference...
Trok67
Profile Joined May 2010
France384 Posts
June 03 2010 00:00 GMT
#542
On June 03 2010 06:49 gillon wrote:
The problem is that people are approaching ZvT mech the wrong way. They think that they are supposed to win by running into a siege ball. This isn't the case. It didn't work in BW, it's not gonna work now.

Think of the major drawback a mech terran has: Mobility. You're playing zerg, what do you have an abundance of? That's right, mobility. Use it, make him feel like he can't move out, attack production, attack expos, attack supply, attack everywhere where his army isn't at.


plz guys stop talking about MOBILITY bullshit, youve probably never played zerg and you think that all zerg are noob and nobody have found the solution while youve found it, thats ridiculous.

So to answer your point quickly. In BW Zerg could deal without a lot of problems with mech army. Goliath didnt rape completely Mutalisk as Thor do, they countered mutalisk but at least terran had to make a good number while now just 2 or 3 thors rape any number of mutalisk. Furthermore, Goliaths were also weaker than thor against grounds units. Thor is just completely retarded : counter very hard air unit and also very strong against every grounds zerg units. So in BW you could fight a mech army as zerg when no you just cant.

With the mobility shit : yes you can drop, yes you can nydus worm, but the terran will play very defensivly so you have to wait until he moves out of his base. Most of time if you drop while he is attacking youit will end up either by base trading (which isnt at the advantage of zerg at all) or either by him completely destroying your base while still able to defend his main because he let some tanks around his buildings which are very hard to kill.

Yes zerg can win against mech terran if the terran make a lot of mistake but at equl skill this is simply not the case.
Doc Daneeka
Profile Joined March 2010
United States577 Posts
June 03 2010 00:01 GMT
#543
On June 03 2010 06:01 osten wrote:
I have this question for you

Why buff the burrow aspect of the roaches?
1 Raven and all of it goes down the drain... The only way of popping up under tanks is by playing someone that isn't good at all.

So we go infestors against tanks? Nope, they die while channeling.

So we go ultras? Nope, they come too late.

So Broodlords? Nope, they come too late.

I am (not kidding) switching to terran now.


1 raven negates: cloaked ghosts, dark templar, burrowed anything including baneling traps, observers, creep tumors... obviously anything that's cloaked. solution? kill the raven. or you know, scout, and hit somewhere there isn't a raven. also, a raven by itself isn't gonna do anything against a decent number of roaches. autoturrets will get raped with or without burrowed regen increase and HSM requires research investment the T probably won't have made.

do you want an 'i win' button to mech or something? what would be the point of mech then?
payed off security
osten
Profile Joined March 2008
Sweden316 Posts
June 03 2010 00:07 GMT
#544
The problem is not the raven, they can just scan..

If I had a "kill tank" spell in my hatchery it would balance things out.
Chen
Profile Joined June 2009
United States6344 Posts
June 03 2010 00:08 GMT
#545
On June 03 2010 09:01 Doc Daneeka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2010 06:01 osten wrote:
I have this question for you

Why buff the burrow aspect of the roaches?
1 Raven and all of it goes down the drain... The only way of popping up under tanks is by playing someone that isn't good at all.

So we go infestors against tanks? Nope, they die while channeling.

So we go ultras? Nope, they come too late.

So Broodlords? Nope, they come too late.

I am (not kidding) switching to terran now.


1 raven negates: cloaked ghosts, dark templar, burrowed anything including baneling traps, observers, creep tumors... obviously anything that's cloaked. solution? kill the raven. or you know, scout, and hit somewhere there isn't a raven. also, a raven by itself isn't gonna do anything against a decent number of roaches. autoturrets will get raped with or without burrowed regen increase and HSM requires research investment the T probably won't have made.

do you want an 'i win' button to mech or something? what would be the point of mech then?

u fucking serious? raven is a detector, it makes burrowed roaches useless because you see and kill them before they get under your army. plus, its not hard for the terran to stick a raven next to his army and a turret in all his bases for detection. hitting a place without detection requires your opponent to be bad. plus, killing a raven is nearly impossible because PDD nullifies basically ALL AA attacks, void ray being the only reasonable exception. plus vikings and tanks outrange everything so you have to run into the army before trying to snipe it.
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7328 Posts
June 03 2010 00:09 GMT
#546
they need to patch it so you get vision if someone shoots you from a cliff. That shit is so gay ;D Makes tank vs tank extremely lame since you have to save energy and not use MULE's
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
MattDamon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States59 Posts
June 03 2010 00:12 GMT
#547
This topic should be called everyone hates Terran


http://beta-us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/62116/1/
melfice
Profile Joined June 2010
Austria12 Posts
June 03 2010 00:18 GMT
#548
Well, i like most of the changes, especially since it's the first patch where protoss hasn't received a nerf. The buff to archons is pretty nice, but still isn't as useful as in BW. It just evaporates before he even can land a shot against nearly every enemy.
Doc Daneeka
Profile Joined March 2010
United States577 Posts
June 03 2010 00:20 GMT
#549
On June 03 2010 09:08 Chen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2010 09:01 Doc Daneeka wrote:
On June 03 2010 06:01 osten wrote:
I have this question for you

Why buff the burrow aspect of the roaches?
1 Raven and all of it goes down the drain... The only way of popping up under tanks is by playing someone that isn't good at all.

So we go infestors against tanks? Nope, they die while channeling.

So we go ultras? Nope, they come too late.

So Broodlords? Nope, they come too late.

I am (not kidding) switching to terran now.


1 raven negates: cloaked ghosts, dark templar, burrowed anything including baneling traps, observers, creep tumors... obviously anything that's cloaked. solution? kill the raven. or you know, scout, and hit somewhere there isn't a raven. also, a raven by itself isn't gonna do anything against a decent number of roaches. autoturrets will get raped with or without burrowed regen increase and HSM requires research investment the T probably won't have made.

do you want an 'i win' button to mech or something? what would be the point of mech then?

u fucking serious? raven is a detector, it makes burrowed roaches useless because you see and kill them before they get under your army. plus, its not hard for the terran to stick a raven next to his army and a turret in all his bases for detection. hitting a place without detection requires your opponent to be bad. plus, killing a raven is nearly impossible because PDD nullifies basically ALL AA attacks, void ray being the only reasonable exception. plus vikings and tanks outrange everything so you have to run into the army before trying to snipe it.


i'm not talking about a-moving your army into his and expecting it to work out, obviously you have to be more opportunistic than that. and you make it sound like terran's gonna have every unit and every structure at all times which is totally unrealistic.

there's just plenty of opportunities to fuck up terran's perfect little mech ball before it ever gets to that point. if you just sit back and let him do whatever he wants for 20 minutes, you kinda deserve to lose.
payed off security
Orange Goblin
Profile Joined May 2010
218 Posts
June 03 2010 00:22 GMT
#550
I wonder how this argument had been if Zerg had been this strong late-game...
Doc Daneeka
Profile Joined March 2010
United States577 Posts
June 03 2010 00:24 GMT
#551
at the beginning of the beta people were bitching and moaning about how unfair zerg was cos of banelings among other things so yeah, i don't have to wonder.
payed off security
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
June 03 2010 01:11 GMT
#552
On June 03 2010 09:22 Orange Goblin wrote:
I wonder how this argument had been if Zerg had been this strong late-game...

They are strong late-game. Broodlords and Ultralisks are fine. It's the transition that kills people. And frankly, that's exactly what this patch helps--the fact that the speed upgrade no longer needs to be researched reduces the time required for Ultras to be useful.

Granted, I think speeding the transition to Broodlords might have had a bigger impact.
Moderator
Jaxx
Profile Joined July 2004
Slovakia758 Posts
June 03 2010 02:06 GMT
#553
Didn't read the whole thread so sorry if it was already mentioned, but I think they fucked up the bonus points by this patch. I had over 100 left, then before patch it jumped to ~200k and after patch I have 0 and they didn't add after few hours. Is this intentional to test sth or just another little bug?
Philosophy
Profile Joined May 2010
186 Posts
June 03 2010 15:09 GMT
#554
On June 03 2010 09:20 Doc Daneeka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2010 09:08 Chen wrote:
On June 03 2010 09:01 Doc Daneeka wrote:
On June 03 2010 06:01 osten wrote:
I have this question for you

Why buff the burrow aspect of the roaches?
1 Raven and all of it goes down the drain... The only way of popping up under tanks is by playing someone that isn't good at all.

So we go infestors against tanks? Nope, they die while channeling.

So we go ultras? Nope, they come too late.

So Broodlords? Nope, they come too late.

I am (not kidding) switching to terran now.


1 raven negates: cloaked ghosts, dark templar, burrowed anything including baneling traps, observers, creep tumors... obviously anything that's cloaked. solution? kill the raven. or you know, scout, and hit somewhere there isn't a raven. also, a raven by itself isn't gonna do anything against a decent number of roaches. autoturrets will get raped with or without burrowed regen increase and HSM requires research investment the T probably won't have made.

do you want an 'i win' button to mech or something? what would be the point of mech then?

u fucking serious? raven is a detector, it makes burrowed roaches useless because you see and kill them before they get under your army. plus, its not hard for the terran to stick a raven next to his army and a turret in all his bases for detection. hitting a place without detection requires your opponent to be bad. plus, killing a raven is nearly impossible because PDD nullifies basically ALL AA attacks, void ray being the only reasonable exception. plus vikings and tanks outrange everything so you have to run into the army before trying to snipe it.


i'm not talking about a-moving your army into his and expecting it to work out, obviously you have to be more opportunistic than that. and you make it sound like terran's gonna have every unit and every structure at all times which is totally unrealistic.

there's just plenty of opportunities to fuck up terran's perfect little mech ball before it ever gets to that point. if you just sit back and let him do whatever he wants for 20 minutes, you kinda deserve to lose.


So you're basically saying that Zerg players should drop, burrow, harass, counter, nydus and flank the Terra to win, while the Terra should just a-move.
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
June 03 2010 15:11 GMT
#555
On June 04 2010 00:09 Philosophy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2010 09:20 Doc Daneeka wrote:
On June 03 2010 09:08 Chen wrote:
On June 03 2010 09:01 Doc Daneeka wrote:
On June 03 2010 06:01 osten wrote:
I have this question for you

Why buff the burrow aspect of the roaches?
1 Raven and all of it goes down the drain... The only way of popping up under tanks is by playing someone that isn't good at all.

So we go infestors against tanks? Nope, they die while channeling.

So we go ultras? Nope, they come too late.

So Broodlords? Nope, they come too late.

I am (not kidding) switching to terran now.


1 raven negates: cloaked ghosts, dark templar, burrowed anything including baneling traps, observers, creep tumors... obviously anything that's cloaked. solution? kill the raven. or you know, scout, and hit somewhere there isn't a raven. also, a raven by itself isn't gonna do anything against a decent number of roaches. autoturrets will get raped with or without burrowed regen increase and HSM requires research investment the T probably won't have made.

do you want an 'i win' button to mech or something? what would be the point of mech then?

u fucking serious? raven is a detector, it makes burrowed roaches useless because you see and kill them before they get under your army. plus, its not hard for the terran to stick a raven next to his army and a turret in all his bases for detection. hitting a place without detection requires your opponent to be bad. plus, killing a raven is nearly impossible because PDD nullifies basically ALL AA attacks, void ray being the only reasonable exception. plus vikings and tanks outrange everything so you have to run into the army before trying to snipe it.


i'm not talking about a-moving your army into his and expecting it to work out, obviously you have to be more opportunistic than that. and you make it sound like terran's gonna have every unit and every structure at all times which is totally unrealistic.

there's just plenty of opportunities to fuck up terran's perfect little mech ball before it ever gets to that point. if you just sit back and let him do whatever he wants for 20 minutes, you kinda deserve to lose.


So you're basically saying that Zerg players should drop, burrow, harass, counter, nydus and flank the Terra to win, while the Terra should just a-move.



exactly. a T must commit his immobile army to a well timed and perfect push, while a Z can macro up and constantly harass/distract him.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Daedie
Profile Joined March 2010
Belgium160 Posts
June 03 2010 15:15 GMT
#556
On June 03 2010 09:22 Orange Goblin wrote:
I wonder how this argument had been if Zerg had been this strong late-game...


You mean like 3 patches ago?
I like turtles
Conventer
Profile Joined May 2010
Poland72 Posts
June 03 2010 15:15 GMT
#557
i don't its because a bug but many times after patch it dropped me from the game. I thought it was my connection but when game freeze i checked speed and it was as it should be so my question is do you have the problem with dropp in game?
cArn-
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)824 Posts
June 03 2010 15:33 GMT
#558
I see lot of ppl talking about PvT sillyness, can someone elaborate ?
Twitter : http://twitter.com/CARNDARAK
osten
Profile Joined March 2008
Sweden316 Posts
June 03 2010 16:17 GMT
#559
It shouldn't be that easy for terran. Really. Even when I sucessfully harass the timing push is so strong nothing can stop it.
CrunkOwns
Profile Joined April 2010
United States138 Posts
June 03 2010 16:30 GMT
#560
Am I the only one who thinks the main problem with the ZvT matchup is thors? They make mutas completely unviable. If Thors splash dmg vs air was tones down a bit at least Zerg could pick away at the terran army w/ muta harassment, etc.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. – Seneca the Younger
Prev 1 26 27 28 29 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
23:00
OSC 5000
EmpressLilyy35
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech165
OGKoka 158
LamboSC2 101
SpeCial 67
SHIN 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4971
Rain 1858
Jaedong 1046
Shuttle 977
EffOrt 755
Hyuk 725
Mini 698
BeSt 570
FanTaSy 465
Light 396
[ Show more ]
Rush 391
Stork 251
Larva 240
ggaemo 210
Leta 200
firebathero 168
hero 146
Snow 109
Killer 100
Hyun 99
Mind 91
Pusan 53
Dewaltoss 40
Bale 38
JYJ 36
Terrorterran 26
ToSsGirL 23
Shinee 23
Mong 18
scan(afreeca) 16
sorry 16
Aegong 15
Movie 15
yabsab 15
Hm[arnc] 12
zelot 9
Rock 8
Dota 2
Gorgc4884
qojqva735
syndereN314
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes245
Other Games
FrodaN2774
singsing2129
B2W.Neo993
Lowko429
KnowMe180
XaKoH 174
byalli171
Fuzer 152
djWHEAT124
DeMusliM109
Mew2King50
ArmadaUGS25
CosmosSc2 19
Railgan5
fpsfer 3
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 21
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV513
League of Legends
• Jankos2888
• TFBlade671
Upcoming Events
OSC
8h 48m
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
19h 18m
WardiTV Invitational
21h 18m
ByuN vs SHIN
MaxPax vs Solar
Clem vs TBD
herO vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
Rogue vs TBD
IPSL
1d 2h
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
BSL
1d 5h
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 19h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 21h
IPSL
2 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
2 days
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-12
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.