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On May 22 2010 22:45 Pengu1n wrote:
does this mean somebody with a brand new high precision gaming mouse has an unfair advantage to someone using a ball mouse and therefore shouldn't use it? I don't understand how its cheating if he went out and buy a more advanced mouse...
If that brand new high precision gaming mouse allowed you to build drones off of every hatchery with a single key press then yes, it is probably an unfair advantage.
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On May 22 2010 22:48 LunarC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 22:45 Pengu1n wrote:
does this mean somebody with a brand new high precision gaming mouse has an unfair advantage to someone using a ball mouse and therefore shouldn't use it? I don't understand how its cheating if he went out and buy a more advanced mouse... If that brand new high precision gaming mouse allowed you to build drones off of every hatchery with a single key press then yes, it is probably an unfair advantage. You're out of date. read a few posts up where I showed that you can already do that, just as fast, without any special hardware or macro.
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BTW just to be clear i'm not using macros anymore, i tried by curiousity and i wanted to make public the fact that it allows easy macro-play. And this type of mouse should be watched in tournaments because the HD is in the mouse.
I haven't tried many things but if you want i can try to find the most abusives macros to make my point more obvious.
You can always say "yes but you cannot do it during the early, mid and late game". But successfully using a well built macro only once in crucial situation can be game changing.
Like someone previously said :
1<1 button macro is ok
1<multiple actions is wrong
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On May 22 2010 22:56 Nutshell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 22:48 LunarC wrote:On May 22 2010 22:45 Pengu1n wrote:
does this mean somebody with a brand new high precision gaming mouse has an unfair advantage to someone using a ball mouse and therefore shouldn't use it? I don't understand how its cheating if he went out and buy a more advanced mouse... If that brand new high precision gaming mouse allowed you to build drones off of every hatchery with a single key press then yes, it is probably an unfair advantage. You're out of date. read a few posts up where I showed that you can already do that, just as fast, without any special hardware or macro.
It's not just the technical aspect of macroing, there is also the issue of principle.
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What principle is that? That we shouldn't allow macros that make the game more difficult to play?
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They investigate reports of automated play - yes. But they can`t prove it. Warden may be able to detect the Logitech software but then what? This software it totally legit. And concerning the game itself, the game cannot differ between you pressing a button or the keyboard triggering one. The input method of a mouse? Its the same wether I press a key or my mouse triggers a macro. And with a Steelseries Xai your able to save macros to the hardware itself. Theres no driver involved anymore so Warden cannot detect crap.
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On May 22 2010 23:24 nyshak wrote:
They investigate reports of automated play - yes. But they can`t prove it. Warden may be able to detect the Logitech software but then what? This software it totally legit. And concerning the game itself, the game cannot differ between you pressing a button or the keyboard triggering one. The input method of a mouse? Its the same wether I press a key or my mouse triggers a macro. And with a Steelseries Xai your able to save macros to the hardware itself. Theres no driver involved anymore so Warden cannot detect crap.
the commands get saved into the replays, yes? so they all get logged and if you get more than 1 replay from someone and he does all of his macro pressing key combinations with the exact same delay everytime then it's proven.
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On May 22 2010 23:29 nttea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 23:24 nyshak wrote:
They investigate reports of automated play - yes. But they can`t prove it. Warden may be able to detect the Logitech software but then what? This software it totally legit. And concerning the game itself, the game cannot differ between you pressing a button or the keyboard triggering one. The input method of a mouse? Its the same wether I press a key or my mouse triggers a macro. And with a Steelseries Xai your able to save macros to the hardware itself. Theres no driver involved anymore so Warden cannot detect crap. the commands get saved into the replays, yes? so they all get logged and if you get more than 1 replay from someone and he does all of his macro pressing key combinations with the exact same delay everytime then it's proven.
All I would have to do is create multiple macro profiles with different delays - something those keyboards are perfectly capable of. Next up is dynamic delay in a macro where I can put in thresholds. Delay between 0.01s-0.03s. And your going to detect what?
Nothing. I'm just a very good and consistent player to you.
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Imo. do what you want in online ladder until Blizzard themselves say its against the rules.
Don't expect to be a competitive (out of just ladder) gamer though as you wont be allowed to play in serious games.
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The only "cheat" I use with my mouse is I changed the SCROLL to act as TAB
this way I can change through buildings with a scroll
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This is seriously a big cheat and it's hard to do anything about it. But then again there are many people out there with maphacks or whatever, also undetected.
These people are never gonna get into top competitive gaming but I don't think they care.
I myself only use one mouse button for 'O' in BW, I just can't stand that hotkey for siege tanks...
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I don't see how this is cheating. Pressing a button on your mouse and pressing a button on your keyboard, the time difference between the two shouldn't really be any different.
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I don't see how using that mouse is much different from a logitech keyboard. They have easy to use macros, too. Mine has 54 possible macro keys (18 with a button to switch between 3 modes). Fact is this is becoming common in keyboards over the years. However, many old games (specifically: MUDs) did ban anyone caught using macros... so it's not like it would be unprecedented. Just difficult to monitor.
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On May 23 2010 00:35 SichuanPanda wrote:
I don't see how this is cheating. Pressing a button on your mouse and pressing a button on your keyboard, the time difference between the two shouldn't really be any different.
The difference is when I can be mid battle, and say click Mouse 1 which in less than a second does:
- F4 (select all my hatches since I bind them to F4)
- S
- h h h h h h h h h h h
So, mid battle, I click a button and in a second, I made hydras to come to bolster my ranks
Then click a button and:
- Selects queen
- v
- Clicks hatch
So, that in two button presses my whole macro is done and I never had to leave my army once, and my hatches are injected, i have hydras coming, and only took me 1 second to do it, while i was microing my other units, just clicked two buttons.
In stead of clicking
- F4
- S
- h 14 times
- F4
- F4
- Select queen
- v
- click hatch
- f5
- select queen click hatch
- f6...
so with 1 button i do over 24 actions in a single click...
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i have a MX518 how do you record these hotkeys to the mouse buttons then?
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Wow, thanks to this thread there might be noobs who doesn't enjoy the benefits of hardwork trying to macro their shit with one click of a button..
(I think they might have no idea how to do this but since you've given the idea they'll be buying a shit ton of this mouse)
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Um this isnt new stuff, I have a keyboard that could macro stuff too. Not shocking a mouse can do it too. With the advance technology nowdays, whats so bad about using them? Of course, unless its a competition then it needs to be regulated. However, if your gaming for fun its no big deal.
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On May 23 2010 00:49 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 00:35 SichuanPanda wrote:
I don't see how this is cheating. Pressing a button on your mouse and pressing a button on your keyboard, the time difference between the two shouldn't really be any different. The difference is when I can be mid battle, and say click Mouse 1 which in less than a second does: - F4 (select all my hatches since I bind them to F4) - S - h h h h h h h h h h h So, mid battle, I click a button and in a second, I made hydras to come to bolster my ranks Then click a button and: - Selects queen - v - Clicks hatch So, that in two button presses my whole macro is done and I never had to leave my army once, and my hatches are injected, i have hydras coming, and only took me 1 second to do it, while i was microing my other units, just clicked two buttons. In stead of clicking - F4 - S - h 14 times - F4 - F4 - Select queen - v - click hatch - f5 - select queen click hatch - f6... so with 1 button i do over 24 actions in a single click... I think I'm going to have to repeat 100 times that you can hold down a production hotkey as zerg and rapidly create units just as fast as a macro using a normal keyboard and mouse. You do not have to hit H 14 times.
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On May 23 2010 00:55 Licmyobelisk wrote:
Wow, thanks to this thread there might be noobs who doesn't enjoy the benefits of hardwork trying to macro their shit with one click of a button..
(I think they might have no idea how to do this but since you've given the idea they'll be buying a shit ton of this mouse)
Yeah I was scared something like this would happen...
But i'm posting here because i trust and i want to inform the TL community that such things exist.
This kind of abuse can be spotted on replays.
Feel free to report abusers now that this macro shit is stated as an abusive play
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except no solid examples of how it could be abused have been presented.
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EPT
