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How cheated is a Gaming Mouse with Macro ? - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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Diks
Profile Joined January 2010
Belgium1880 Posts
May 22 2010 16:10 GMT
#81
Nutshell don't you understand than keep the button hold cost time, nearly a full second for long production, the mouse macro do it INSTANTLY.
Write that inside your head please
cbkenned2009
Profile Joined May 2010
United States55 Posts
May 22 2010 16:16 GMT
#82
Anytime you have something that plays the game for you is similar to a bot. If you had a script running that managed your base macro for you, would that be fair? A script and this mouse you program, the only difference is you click a button when you want the magic to happen. Definitely a grey area, but typically whenever something else is playing the game for you, its generally an unfair advantage. Extra buttons are fine, as long as you have to click them one at a time.
Phlatline
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Croatia176 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-22 16:20:40
May 22 2010 16:18 GMT
#83
This kind of stuff could potentially be annoying but, truthfully, you should just focus on yourself and bettering your own play. You will never know if someone is just better then you or playing with this kind of equipment anyway.

EDIT:
but if there is a way to get around this mouse (or whatever else) macros I'm all for it ^^
Diokhan
Profile Joined May 2010
Finland33 Posts
May 22 2010 16:29 GMT
#84
On May 22 2010 20:58 Kashll wrote:
Lol come on. I mean of course for terrible people it matters, but it won't matter at all at high levels of play since people can macro competently anyways.

have to disagree. Yes amazing macro players like idrA can already do stuff at insane speed, but if you throw them gear like macro mouses & keyboards they can improve other aspects of their game (like microing their armies even better) while keeping their macros at same level.

Yes I agree any cheating tools would improve bad players more than they would improve tier 1 players, but I think its silly to say that tier 1 players are so good that it wouldn't matter at all if 1 of them was cheating (Yes I agree with Blizzard that multiple keys involving macro keyboard and mouses equal cheating) by using macros while other one wasn't.

@ op - Yes I do think it is cheating, just like modded controllers on fps games (autofiring with semi automatic single shot guns) are.
I am not opinionated, I am just always right.
Deleted User 61629
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1664 Posts
May 22 2010 16:29 GMT
#85
--- Nuked ---
guitarizt
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1492 Posts
May 22 2010 16:31 GMT
#86
Next we'll have scripts to auto larva/chrono boost/mule or keep people from getting supply blocked.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” - Hemingway
GiveMeFace
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom86 Posts
May 22 2010 16:32 GMT
#87
Regardless of how useful someone finds the extra seconds saved by these macros mechanics. It should still be classified as cheating, it's quite simple.

If you resort to using these you have no soul.^^
King Waiting To Be Crowned
Nutshell
Profile Joined March 2010
United States41 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-22 16:35:23
May 22 2010 16:33 GMT
#88
Nutshell don't you understand than keep the button hold cost time, nearly a full second for long production, the mouse macro do it INSTANTLY.
Write that inside your head please


1. The time difference is negligible. I beg everyone to just go try it. Create a custom game without an opponent and just go nuts. The only time you would see a significant difference in the time it takes would be if you had a very large number of larvae selected. Now if this was the case you would probably want control over the number of specific units. Sometimes you would want 40 roaches, sometimes you would want 20 roaches, 20 hydras. Sometimes you would want 20 roaches, 16 hydras and 4 infestors.

2. You'd have to create 9 macros to cover every zerg unit which you would then have to bind to additional keys. So you would need 9 keys for one at a time production, and 9 keys for macro spam production. So now you've more keys to memorize and less space for those keys and you have to juggle which method you're going to use on the spot. Sounds to me like its more work and a disadvantage.
Zealotdriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1557 Posts
May 22 2010 16:33 GMT
#89
This is a ban-worthy violation of Blizzard's Terms of Service. Also, that mouse is bloated.
Turn off the radio
PROJECTILE
Profile Joined April 2010
United States226 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-22 16:34:59
May 22 2010 16:34 GMT
#90
people here are underestimating how much this can help at a high level when the skills are very similar, especially as the game progresses. I don't really care if this is a cheat or not, that's up for the individual leagues/tournies to decide, but why not use it for the advantage when you can? I'd imagine for any LAN tournies they would be able to easily enforce this, so depending on how serious you are planning to be it may or may not be a good idea to use it. For the lower levels, it can certainly help, but if someone there is smart enough to get a great meta gaming advantage from using superior hardware, that's his prerogative.
edit: and for the people decrying this as cheating, jesus, get a life. I hope you don't follow any professional sports.
GiveMeFace
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom86 Posts
May 22 2010 16:37 GMT
#91
Getting an advantage while you can just makes you scum. In the spirit of competition you should want to play on a level playing field. This is just as bad as maphacking unless declared allowed by the terms of service which apparently it does not.
King Waiting To Be Crowned
PROJECTILE
Profile Joined April 2010
United States226 Posts
May 22 2010 16:38 GMT
#92
On May 23 2010 01:16 cbkenned2009 wrote:
Anytime you have something that plays the game for you is similar to a bot. If you had a script running that managed your base macro for you, would that be fair? A script and this mouse you program, the only difference is you click a button when you want the magic to happen. Definitely a grey area, but typically whenever something else is playing the game for you, its generally an unfair advantage. Extra buttons are fine, as long as you have to click them one at a time.

I'd consider if you could write a script to do that for you, you deserve to be able to use it. That's part of meta-gaming, just like using a superior off-season training regimen and access to better trainers and facilities can help one athlete over another. The cheating aspect depends on a couple of things: what the ToS/Blizzard considers cheating, what the tournies consider cheating, what your personal ethics dictate, and what you can get away with safely.
PROJECTILE
Profile Joined April 2010
United States226 Posts
May 22 2010 16:39 GMT
#93
On May 23 2010 01:37 GiveMeFace wrote:
Getting an advantage while you can just makes you scum. In the spirit of competition you should want to play on a level playing field. This is just as bad as maphacking unless declared allowed by the terms of service which apparently it does not.

Spirit of competition is something losers talk about to make themselves feel better about not being winners. :shrug:
goswser
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3546 Posts
May 22 2010 16:44 GMT
#94
Isn't it brutally obvious if you watch the replay of someone using this in starcraft 2, because you can see what he is doing with the mouse right? Thus is should be relatively simple to make a program to detect this.
say you were born into a jungle indian tribe where food was scarce...would you run around from teepee to teepee stealing meat scraps after a day lazying around doing nothing except warming urself by a fire that you didn't even make yourself? -rekrul
GiveMeFace
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom86 Posts
May 22 2010 16:50 GMT
#95
Well the fact anyone can go out and buy these devices hardly makes it something a loser would say. Its one thing to be a loser but to advocate cheating is pure scum.
King Waiting To Be Crowned
Vexx
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States462 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-22 16:55:57
May 22 2010 16:50 GMT
#96
Firmly of the opinion that macros are fine and that spamming T to build mutas or using larva on 4 queens every 40 seconds is stupid and has nothing to do with skill. The entire skill of it is remembering to do things and stay on top of your macro, not spamming 20 hotkeys in 2 seconds.

It's a poor discussion with this community because everyone has been stuck playing a 1998 game with shitty UI so apparently skill in SC has to have nothing to do with strategy but mostly with sim city skills.

Edit: lol. Just read through the whole thread. You guys sound like senior citizens. Whaa! A bot is playing for you! whaa!. Get over yourselves. According to the TL community, RTS stands for:

Real Time Simcity
Real Time Spam
Real Time Shitty ui that needs to stay bad so that over comming it is skill!

You know... In the HDH, I was much more impressed by Idra's harass of the new expo with lings while dropping the main with hydras and then switching in mutas and catching the colossus alone and not his gosu skills at keeping a queen's energy low by spamming spawn larva.

Really, step into 2010 guys
I am not nice.
Majk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden146 Posts
May 22 2010 16:50 GMT
#97
Of course this is cheating, weather it affects top players or not. If Blizzard allow this there's no distinct line what's ok or not. All should compete with the same type of equipment. Otherwise I really can't call it competetive. A regular keybord and a mouse with 2 buttons and mousewheel, no macrobuttons.
sLiniss
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States849 Posts
May 22 2010 16:52 GMT
#98
This is pretty much botting the the middle of the game right? imo these mice shouldnt be used.
Nutshell
Profile Joined March 2010
United States41 Posts
May 22 2010 16:56 GMT
#99
Could someone please come up with an example of a macro that can do something significantly easier than using a non-macro method? None of the ones provided so far have proved to be abusive or advantageous.
Diks
Profile Joined January 2010
Belgium1880 Posts
May 22 2010 16:56 GMT
#100
The macro action is so quick that to spot it in a replay, you need to spot the invisible.
"How did he make all that units spawning at the same time while he was microing that fight ? I didn't see him making any production while in his first person view"

if a program can spot the action that happens too quickly (at non-human speed) then this should be easily spottable.

And yes they can record a longer delay, but then using the macro would be useless
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