On July 16 2010 03:50 nyshak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 00:19 themeDusk wrote:On July 15 2010 21:11 themeDusk wrote:On July 15 2010 20:52 themeDusk wrote:On July 15 2010 20:44 nyshak wrote:On July 15 2010 20:35 themeDusk wrote:
I've always wanted more macro options from blizzard. Like the ability to auto build at a production facility. For example, when activated will always produce a certain unit if Ive got the supply and money. Come to think of it, I've never tried to left click a unit in the buildings, but I doubt it exists. All the cool stuff is in the micro and strategies. I'm always thinking, there's so much more I can do with my units, but I have to spend time and apm building/teching/upgrading/expanding(part of the game of course). Out of the game macro options might bring the game to a higher level. If you take out the need to properly devote time and actions to macro everyone will micro better. The game will be worse because it will take less skill. I would beg to differ. Just because some of the macro is taken away, by no means does it imply perfect micro. The skill ceiling and amount of apm needed for very good micro is very high, but you don't see it as much even in pro games(even though there is a lot more of it) because the value of your apm is better spent macroing. On July 15 2010 21:01 nyshak wrote:
Fact of the matter is the less attention you have to devote to macro the better your micro will become. Thats what I said. I did not say that micro will be perfected then, I said it will be easier. And "easier" is not good for a competitive game where you need a skill ceiling that allows people to get better and better almost indefinetly. SC2 needs less macro work than SCBW already, we must not have macros to dumb it down further. But you said the game would take less skill, and I was pointing out that the skill ceiling would still be very high. You even said it would go to infinity. So given limited APM, would you rather micro troops or macro buildings? I personally prefer micro my units. Macroing feels like I'm playing some dance dance revolution spin off, when i have to spam 4s5s6s7s(just an example) repeatedly. On July 15 2010 21:19 nyshak wrote:
"almost indefinetly" is what I wrote. Please read, then write.
As to your question: I think micro and macro are both fun. Zergs macro mechanic seems a bit more tedious than that of the other races but that is due people overlooking creep tumors. When to chronoboost, what to chronoboost, or the decision between a mule, a scan or some extra supply is interesting and fun to me. Its a part of the game that must not be automated. Come on now..."almost indefinitely", "infinitely", splitting hairs? ok sorry, I was meaning to say you said "almost indefinitely". And to respond, I would agree that the new macro mechanics like creep tumors, chronoboosting, and the orbital command center add new flavor to macroing, and I can address what I think about those in a sec. However, the topic at hand is macro, specifically what the opening post said, 1 click to = "5 s zzzzzzz" or "4 s zzzzzzzzz", not any of the new mechanics. I'm totally for taking as much of that out of macroing as possible. Arthritis...carpel tunnel syndrome...I can see myself with it in the future... With regard to the new mechanics, I think it would be great if we could tell the creep tumor to place another creep tumor at position x after the 30 second cooldown(still requires the same apm), and just because you can automate the chronoboost to constantly use on probes or stalkers doesn't mean there's no decision making process involved. Maybe you don't want to constantly use it on one thing, you can change from building to building or choose to save up energy and use it on multiple buildings/tech. Creep tumors can spawn additional tumors. Surely you know that? Spreading creep still is a macro part of zerg gameplay that every player should have to attend to manually. After all creep provides a substantial advantage to zerg. I also believe that unless you take it to extrem levels, like some pros have to, and play for 12h a day you won't have much trouble with carpal tunnel. If you are afraid of that maybe you should play less? The thing is that if you can use a macro for boring tasks like "5 s zzzzzzzzzzzz" (note: I don't think its boring, as unit production is an integral part of the game) you cannot argue that macros can be abused much much more. As a poster before me outlined: it would be possible to bind queen hatchery vomiting to one key for such a high number of queens/hatcheries that this mechanic would no longer require any skill. Remember the skill is not being able to do "55 v click 66 v click", the skill is in remembering to do so while fighting your opponent.
Yes, I know creep tumors can spread another tumor. I was trying to say how it can be more automated.
That's what I'm trying to address. The game at the higher levels of play. The thing is, in order to "remember" to do it while in battle, pro gamers spam the living hell out of their keyboards(although I don't think having to remember to build stuff is too related to the skill of this game, that's more like how not distracted you can be. In fact, I'd even argue that it's more skill related to do the "55 v click 66 v click" without looking at their keyboard and as fast as they do since they've practiced it in order to obtain the skill). Have you seen them play? Starcraft 2 was designed to be at the cornerstone of pro gaming, and I think it can be a great strategy game without totally ruining the hands of pro gamers. Don't you care about the pro gamers? Using all of these 3rd party macro help will assist with keeping the hands of pro gamers healthier and increase the amount of microing. I'm all for doing the queen hatchery vomiting in one click. I love SC2 the way it is; I just like micro more than macro, especially when spectating games. During battles, I definitely watch the fight, not the base. And I oooh over units being pulled out of battle and sent back in with little health, when units are picked up/dropped off in shuttles/dropships to prevent taking damage while dealing damage, when 4 unit surrounds occur(intentionally), the manual spread out of units to reduce splash dmg, when multiple battles/drops are taking place all over the map, the sweet maneuvering of air units, and so much more. I don't go oooh look he built tanks or marines at his base during a battle(i know it's part of the game). Same goes when I play the game. I take pride in the micro I do, not the macro(since I have no troubles being focused at macroing during a battle).
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