On July 15 2010 20:35 themeDusk wrote: I've always wanted more macro options from blizzard. Like the ability to auto build at a production facility. For example, when activated will always produce a certain unit if Ive got the supply and money. Come to think of it, I've never tried to left click a unit in the buildings, but I doubt it exists. All the cool stuff is in the micro and strategies. I'm always thinking, there's so much more I can do with my units, but I have to spend time and apm building/teching/upgrading/expanding(part of the game of course). Out of the game macro options might bring the game to a higher level.
If you take out the need to properly devote time and actions to macro everyone will micro better. The game will be worse because it will take less skill.
I would beg to differ. Just because some of the macro is taken away, by no means does it imply perfect micro. The skill ceiling and amount of apm needed for very good micro is very high, but you don't see it as much even in pro games(even though there is a lot more of it) because the value of your apm is better spent macroing.
On July 15 2010 21:01 nyshak wrote: Fact of the matter is the less attention you have to devote to macro the better your micro will become. Thats what I said. I did not say that micro will be perfected then, I said it will be easier. And "easier" is not good for a competitive game where you need a skill ceiling that allows people to get better and better almost indefinetly. SC2 needs less macro work than SCBW already, we must not have macros to dumb it down further.
But you said the game would take less skill, and I was pointing out that the skill ceiling would still be very high. You even said it would go to infinity. So given limited APM, would you rather micro troops or macro buildings? I personally prefer micro my units. Macroing feels like I'm playing some dance dance revolution spin off, when i have to spam 4s5s6s7s(just an example) repeatedly.
"almost indefinetly" is what I wrote. Please read, then write.
As to your question: I think micro and macro are both fun. Zergs macro mechanic seems a bit more tedious than that of the other races but that is due people overlooking creep tumors. When to chronoboost, what to chronoboost, or the decision between a mule, a scan or some extra supply is interesting and fun to me. Its a part of the game that must not be automated.
Dude its just like macros on G15 - G18 it doesnt work well online since the server has to register 10 key buttons in less than sec and it often results in a short lag.
it's called botting. and these scripted events are not allowed by blizzard.. there are also blueposts as far as i know.
go and get detected by blizzard and bye bye account... and all your friends will see that Noobpwnr.653 will not come again online for a while due to cheating. it is obviously cheating.. if you want accept it or not.
On July 15 2010 20:35 themeDusk wrote: I've always wanted more macro options from blizzard. Like the ability to auto build at a production facility. For example, when activated will always produce a certain unit if Ive got the supply and money. Come to think of it, I've never tried to left click a unit in the buildings, but I doubt it exists. All the cool stuff is in the micro and strategies. I'm always thinking, there's so much more I can do with my units, but I have to spend time and apm building/teching/upgrading/expanding(part of the game of course). Out of the game macro options might bring the game to a higher level.
If you take out the need to properly devote time and actions to macro everyone will micro better. The game will be worse because it will take less skill.
I would beg to differ. Just because some of the macro is taken away, by no means does it imply perfect micro. The skill ceiling and amount of apm needed for very good micro is very high, but you don't see it as much even in pro games(even though there is a lot more of it) because the value of your apm is better spent macroing.
On July 15 2010 21:01 nyshak wrote: Fact of the matter is the less attention you have to devote to macro the better your micro will become. Thats what I said. I did not say that micro will be perfected then, I said it will be easier. And "easier" is not good for a competitive game where you need a skill ceiling that allows people to get better and better almost indefinetly. SC2 needs less macro work than SCBW already, we must not have macros to dumb it down further.
But you said the game would take less skill, and I was pointing out that the skill ceiling would still be very high. You even said it would go to infinity. So given limited APM, would you rather micro troops or macro buildings? I personally prefer micro my units. Macroing feels like I'm playing some dance dance revolution spin off, when i have to spam 4s5s6s7s(just an example) repeatedly.
On July 15 2010 21:19 nyshak wrote: "almost indefinetly" is what I wrote. Please read, then write.
As to your question: I think micro and macro are both fun. Zergs macro mechanic seems a bit more tedious than that of the other races but that is due people overlooking creep tumors. When to chronoboost, what to chronoboost, or the decision between a mule, a scan or some extra supply is interesting and fun to me. Its a part of the game that must not be automated.
Come on now..."almost indefinitely", "infinitely", splitting hairs? ok sorry, I was meaning to say you said "almost indefinitely".
And to respond, I would agree that the new macro mechanics like creep tumors, chronoboosting, and the orbital command center add new flavor to macroing, and I can address what I think about those in a sec. However, the topic at hand is macro, specifically what the opening post said, 1 click to = "5 s zzzzzzz" or "4 s zzzzzzzzz", not any of the new mechanics. I'm totally for taking as much of that out of macroing as possible. Arthritis...carpel tunnel syndrome...I can see myself with it in the future...
With regard to the new mechanics, I think it would be great if we could tell the creep tumor to place another creep tumor at position x after the 30 second cooldown(still requires the same apm), and just because you can automate the chronoboost to constantly use on probes or stalkers doesn't mean there's no decision making process involved. Maybe you don't want to constantly use it on one thing, you can change from building to building or choose to save up energy and use it on multiple buildings/tech.
I think blizzard will promote Macro's. Look at the special Steel series SC2 Keyboard. It has 9 buttons for Macro's with integrated Terran, Protoss and Zerg macro's. Dont believe me? the link!!
At some point everyone will get one of those... either keybord or mouse.... giving no one real advantage.
I'm not for it, but i'm not against it either. I'd just like to see the best possible games.... and if we can save X AMP by using programmed macros... so be it!
It is clearly hacking if you are using more hotkeys than the game offers.
PS: These mice are all garbage. They are just trying to cash in in children with rich parents. Furthermore, nobody is stopping them because they are endorsed by the sell-out pro-gamers. I hope that I get good enough to be popular, in which case my "thing" would be that I own people who use a $400 mouse with a $10 mouse. Win tournaments whos prize purse is worth less than the contestants keyboards/mouse set up, lol.
yes DeckTech that is what you think, but not blizzard. If you are allowed to use third-party app's then maphack is legal.. so what?
these macro's are not intended for the gameplay in starcraft.. if they were, you could modify your macros ingame and click this and that to cause producing zerglings with one click on all hatcheries or whatever... this isn't the case yet afaik? or is it?
On July 15 2010 20:35 themeDusk wrote: I've always wanted more macro options from blizzard. Like the ability to auto build at a production facility. For example, when activated will always produce a certain unit if Ive got the supply and money. Come to think of it, I've never tried to left click a unit in the buildings, but I doubt it exists. All the cool stuff is in the micro and strategies. I'm always thinking, there's so much more I can do with my units, but I have to spend time and apm building/teching/upgrading/expanding(part of the game of course). Out of the game macro options might bring the game to a higher level.
If you take out the need to properly devote time and actions to macro everyone will micro better. The game will be worse because it will take less skill.
I would beg to differ. Just because some of the macro is taken away, by no means does it imply perfect micro. The skill ceiling and amount of apm needed for very good micro is very high, but you don't see it as much even in pro games(even though there is a lot more of it) because the value of your apm is better spent macroing.
On July 15 2010 21:01 nyshak wrote: Fact of the matter is the less attention you have to devote to macro the better your micro will become. Thats what I said. I did not say that micro will be perfected then, I said it will be easier. And "easier" is not good for a competitive game where you need a skill ceiling that allows people to get better and better almost indefinetly. SC2 needs less macro work than SCBW already, we must not have macros to dumb it down further.
But you said the game would take less skill, and I was pointing out that the skill ceiling would still be very high. You even said it would go to infinity. So given limited APM, would you rather micro troops or macro buildings? I personally prefer micro my units. Macroing feels like I'm playing some dance dance revolution spin off, when i have to spam 4s5s6s7s(just an example) repeatedly.
On July 15 2010 21:19 nyshak wrote: "almost indefinetly" is what I wrote. Please read, then write.
As to your question: I think micro and macro are both fun. Zergs macro mechanic seems a bit more tedious than that of the other races but that is due people overlooking creep tumors. When to chronoboost, what to chronoboost, or the decision between a mule, a scan or some extra supply is interesting and fun to me. Its a part of the game that must not be automated.
Come on now..."almost indefinitely", "infinitely", splitting hairs? ok sorry, I was meaning to say you said "almost indefinitely".
And to respond, I would agree that the new macro mechanics like creep tumors, chronoboosting, and the orbital command center add new flavor to macroing, and I can address what I think about those in a sec. However, the topic at hand is macro, specifically what the opening post said, 1 click to = "5 s zzzzzzz" or "4 s zzzzzzzzz", not any of the new mechanics. I'm totally for taking as much of that out of macroing as possible. Arthritis...carpel tunnel syndrome...I can see myself with it in the future...
With regard to the new mechanics, I think it would be great if we could tell the creep tumor to place another creep tumor at position x after the 30 second cooldown(still requires the same apm), and just because you can automate the chronoboost to constantly use on probes or stalkers doesn't mean there's no decision making process involved. Maybe you don't want to constantly use it on one thing, you can change from building to building or choose to save up energy and use it on multiple buildings/tech.
Creep tumors can spawn additional tumors. Surely you know that? Spreading creep still is a macro part of zerg gameplay that every player should have to attend to manually. After all creep provides a substantial advantage to zerg.
I also believe that unless you take it to extrem levels, like some pros have to, and play for 12h a day you won't have much trouble with carpal tunnel. If you are afraid of that maybe you should play less?
The thing is that if you can use a macro for boring tasks like "5 s zzzzzzzzzzzz" (note: I don't think its boring, as unit production is an integral part of the game) you cannot argue that macros can be abused much much more. As a poster before me outlined: it would be possible to bind queen hatchery vomiting to one key for such a high number of queens/hatcheries that this mechanic would no longer require any skill. Remember the skill is not being able to do "55 v click 66 v click", the skill is in remembering to do so while fighting your opponent.
Interesting thread and defenitely a cheat if used properly. Afaik people got banned in WoW, is that right, as Blizzard will not tolerate 3rd party apps and such things this would be good. because this kind of play is not part of the mechanics, if they were, your maphack is also a part of it (and if they really were, you would find ingame settings just like in WoW). So enjoy cheating with your keyboard utilites. (btw. you don't even need a special keyboard or a mouse with such features, your very old Cherry from last millenium is still good enough for some crazy stuff)
@Defeat how do you know? So you must using them... aren't you? :>
It only depends on how well the user creates and uses them... probably there will come some more or less complex pre-made macro-scripts for everyone, who knows, but this does not help you if they don't fit to your 'work-flow'. You can do pretty nice stuff with macros, I am working with them in everyday use. I do not want to debauch you to use macros, at least not in Starcraft or other games, as I clearly stated, this is _pure cheating_ in games which benefit from them.
but it's your opinion...
@OPSavioR this is simply not true with the lag caused by excessive using of 'simple' macros... I don't know what lousy connection you are using... then probably you are right. Some kind of a 14.4kbit/s modem I guess?
--- a little joke, I wanted to check video compresion settings anyway: Babaaam! Go click a single EMERGENCY BUTTON for mass ZERGLINGS and create dozens of Zerglings out of 4 Hatcheries with just one keystroke.. nothing easier than that...
hehe. this is only as simple and as stupid as an example can be... (this is not even useful anyway, nothing compared to what is possible)
These sort of features wont be acceptable in tournaments (at least ours). I can't imagine that you will see a single top foreigner using these functions. That being said, they are pretty cool for casual joe blow .
The same thing can be done with autohotkey and other macroing programs. The only difference is that its on a mouse and it stores all the scripts within the mouse so it can be used anywhere.
Its as much cheating as using bunnyhop script in an FPS.
On July 16 2010 07:32 Kennigit wrote: These sort of features wont be acceptable in tournaments (at least ours). I can't imagine that you will see a single top foreigner using these functions. That being said, they are even pretty coolbad for casual joe blownoob .
Don't worry, I fixed it.
They are pretty bad for anyone. An advantage by hardware wont make you any more skilled. At a LAN people will LOL at you.. I've seen countless noobs saying "The razer naga is good for SC"..blows my mind T_T
EPT
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