EPTHow cheated is a Gaming Mouse with Macro ? - Page 7
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Mellotron
United States329 Posts
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Williowa
129 Posts
the person still has to remember to do it, not that it can't be an advantage, but someone doing 100+ actions a minute can already handle the keyboard in a few seconds | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1012 Posts
On May 23 2010 03:16 Nutshell wrote: Read the entire thread please. You can already train a "shitload of units during battle" by just holding down the hotkey in vanilla SC2 without any special keyboard, mouse or macro. You are correct but you're still missing the point. Of course you can produce shitloads of units in SC2 without macros, but the point is it takes much more time doing it than pressing a single button. Basically in every battle which requires you to micro (MMM with drops and stim is a very common example of that) how often would you stop controlling your army and start building units from your barracks/starports? Come on man it's not realistic, and holding down hotkeys to build units with Terran is way too imprecise when you got barracks with different add-ons and you don't want to overproduce Medivacs since you want to keep the cost as low as possible. In the middle of ANY fight, you can just press one button and you'll produce a shitload of units. Not even Idra could do that when dropping and using spells at the same time with overseers/infestors while getting harassed at expansions. He could, but it would take at least one second and that could actually decide the battle. Oh and btw selecting idle SCV:s never center when I do it, so my macro would in fact work and would place the depot where the mouse is located. It would also just select ONE idle SCV, so it wouldn't matter how many were idle. | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
Also, it's just a technical detail but FYI, the mouse wouldn't have a hard drive in it, just a small piece of flash memory like the kind in USB storage sticks. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
If you use a ball mouse, with mouse acceleration turned on, you will be extremely inaccurate, and will probably spend a few more seconds and a few extra clicks performing the exact same action as someone who is using a mouse that allows for good accuracy. So is having a mouse with good accuracy cheating? It does give you a huge advantage over someone else who uses a shitty mouse. Are you using something like this? http://www.theworkingmouse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/ball-mouse.jpg If you are using something better than this, then you have an advantage over other players because of your better hardware. Cheaters! Lets take a look at another sport, since starcraft is supposed to be an "esport" Do you think that using skis like this: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3406/3547617515_dff736a138_o.jpg Or those: http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v184/247/0/603343578/n603343578_321216_2291.jpg Are more likely to help you win a competition? Would the person using the second set be cheating? They would clearly be gaining an advantage due to equipment over the person using the wood ones. At what point does using better equipment than your opponent stop giving you an advantage, and starts giving you an "unfair advanatage"? Usually, the line is drawn by what equipment I have access to, and can afford. Anything I have, is fair game, but anything I cant get, is an unfair advantage. | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
On May 23 2010 04:39 morimacil wrote: Having access to better hardware makes you more efficient. If you use a ball mouse, with mouse acceleration turned on, you will be extremely inaccurate, and will probably spend a few more seconds and a few extra clicks performing the exact same action as someone who is using a mouse that allows for good accuracy. So is having a mouse with good accuracy cheating? It does give you a huge advantage over someone else who uses a shitty mouse. Are you using something like this? http://www.theworkingmouse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/ball-mouse.jpg If you are using something better than this, then you have an advantage over other players because of your better hardware. Cheaters! Lets take a look at another sport, since starcraft is supposed to be an "esport" Do you think that using skis like this: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3406/3547617515_dff736a138_o.jpg Or those: http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v184/247/0/603343578/n603343578_321216_2291.jpg Are more likely to help you win a competition? Would the person using the second set be cheating? They would clearly be gaining an advantage due to equipment over the person using the wood ones. At what point does using better equipment than your opponent stop giving you an advantage, and starts giving you an "unfair advanatage"? Usually, the line is drawn by what equipment I have access to, and can afford. Anything I have, is fair game, but anything I cant get, is an unfair advantage. There is a fine line between efficiency and outright automatically doing shit for you. Those skis you show don't automatically navigate your course for you while you sleep and don't have hidden missile turrets that shoot down competing skiiers for you. Macro functionalities have come a long way since their first primitive conceptions in early gaming mice. | ||
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HCastorp
United States388 Posts
A mouse that can utilize macros is a difference in kind. A keyboard that can register keypresses more accurately is a difference of degree. A keyboard that can utilize macros . . . | ||
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Nutshell
United States41 Posts
Of course you can produce shitloads of units in SC2 without macros, but the point is it takes much more time doing it than pressing a single button. No it doesn't, try it. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1012 Posts
Anyway this kind of stuff already appeared on keyboards as have been pointed out, you can do all sorts of crazy stuff like letting the keyboard beep on events or using a timer on the inbuilt LED. | ||
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Aylear
Norway3988 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.dvhardware.net/news/logitech_g15_keyboard_5.jpg) The programmable buttons on the left can be macro'd to any sequence of commands, and I have EIGHTEEN of them. It honestly didn't even occur to me that they could be used for doing macro heavy stuff in StarCraft, but obviously it's possible. Like MasterOfChaos said, 1 to 1 remapping is fine. Setting up longer macros isn't. It does pose an interesting problem for online ladder, though. | ||
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Equalizer
Canada115 Posts
An algorithm would have no problem picking up that that the timing on key stroke is too consistant to be human as there would be patterns where the key press timings of a sequence would be exactly the same. If you are really paranoid about someone that you played against using a macro you could even see such patterns without the aid of a program by looking at the game replay and if you see a build sequence with the exact same time spacing more than 3 times chances are the person used a macro. | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
If you think all it takes to get good is macroing your mouse or that it's some sort of advantage then you have a long way to go to go pro. Trust me. Macroing your mouse is the least of your worries when you get good enough. This is here to stay regardless of what your antiquated opinions are. This is sc2 in 2010 not 8-bit Starcraft on a commodore 64. If you think macro is cheating. Macro your own keyboard or mouse and see if you get into diamond league instead of silver. Or if you are already diamond. See if you win the next cash prize tournament since it's so "imba". Get real. Have fun complaining about this and making 20 million polls on why this has no skill (you won't get your way anyway ) but it wasn't skill to select hatch and produce drones to begin with. The real skill lies in meta game and game sense. Yes. Meta game does exist. Not on ladder though and not on your macroed mouse. | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
As per my previous post.. is having a bigger monitor cheating? No? Is having a better keyboard cheating then? Whats that? keyboard cheaper than monitor... | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
Putting macros on the buttons is a huge waste of effort and time and doesn't help your macro at all. These poll results are embarassing. | ||
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Mr.E
United States434 Posts
 )Yea its cheating, but only slightly if your already good. | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
On May 23 2010 05:52 Paramore wrote: Also for all those complaining about everyone should use 2 button mouse and a standard keyboard from 1992, its called get a job and buy a new keyboard and mouse. At this day and age it might not even be expected to have a scroll wheel. As per my previous post.. is having a bigger monitor cheating? No? Is having a better keyboard cheating then? Whats that? keyboard cheaper than monitor... This whole issue arises because hardware components can be equipped with quite alot of software these days. You must realize that there's a difference between hardware and software no matter if your software is on your hard drive or in your mouse/keyboard. If a bot(macro) playing for you from outside the construct of the game, well, then you have an unfair advantage, which we call cheating. "Is having a better keyboard cheating then?" define "a better keyboard" please... "is having a bigger monitor cheating?" No, but having a really small/really big monitor can be quite a disadvantage - Just like having a mile long keyboard can be quite a disadvantage. As long as the hardware doesn't have complex software properties I don't see it as cheating. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
On May 23 2010 05:25 Freezard wrote: morimacil that's the worst analogy I've seen lol. What does different mice have to do with this? It's a personal preference, nothing says optical is better than ball mouse, I actually played better with ball mouse until it broke. Also, many people say laser > optical but that's not true for a lot of people... Some mice are better than others. Just like some keyboards are better than others. Lower response speed, more accuracy, more buttons, there are lots of things that improve it. Well, its an unfair advantage which is pretty much the definition of cheating, Yeah, but whats the definition of unfair? If it doesnt let you do anything which you otherwise couldnt do, it just lets you do the same thing more efficiently, and everyone can have access to it, how is that cheating? | ||
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afirlortwo
United States161 Posts
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LeX-
Canada49 Posts
One key to press: 5aaaa6ddddd is not allowed. You can bind any single key to any single letter/# on your keyboard or mouse. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
Edit: Someone said it right before me. >.> | ||
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