The biggest problem with macros is if you allow them (consider them not cheating) you run the slippery slope of how long does a macro need to be to before it becomes an AI script.

It is certainly possible that if a mouse/keyboard can store a macro that it could be made to run a sequence of key stokes to play out a simple AI (e.g. making a script for 6 pool ling rush wouldn't be very hard for a specific map). Obviously when taken to this extreme it should be considered cheating.

tYsopz

Norway215 Posts

May 22 2010 21:38 GMT

#142

My most immediate thought is that it's not going to matter much on the very top level, and if people want to gimp themselves by being dependent on gear and macros, then it's their loss.

rS.Sinatra

Canada785 Posts

May 22 2010 21:42 GMT

#143

you can run AI scripts all you want against me.. i dont remember the last time i lost to the computer on insane mode... gl hf...

XsebT

Denmark2980 Posts

May 22 2010 21:48 GMT

#144

On May 23 2010 06:42 Paramore wrote:
you can run AI scripts all you want against me.. i dont remember the last time i lost to the computer on insane mode... gl hf...

You're too cute to insult.

Grebliv

Iceland800 Posts

May 22 2010 21:54 GMT

#145

You won't be able to use it if you ever get to play anything that really matters (Lan for $$$), and if you don't end up doing that what are you gaining?(If you think maphacking is a good idea this is like that x 0.000001), a tad more e-respect from some random people against the knowledge that you're not really playing entirely fair.

Monzterg

Sweden257 Posts

May 22 2010 21:57 GMT

#146

I know where my line goes.

I consider it cheat if you reduce the ammount of work you need to do to preform a task.
So if you can do multiple things with one click I think that is cheating.

Moving buttons from your keyboard to your mouse I wouldnt consider cheat at all as it doesnt reduce the number of tasks you have to preform but simply moves the buttons around.

Ive actually made the button left of 1 on my keyboard work as 0. And CAPSLOCK work as CONTROL. And I do not think this is cheating.

So I think you can move buttons like 5 6 7 8 9 0 A etc to your mouse and noone will complain about that.

XsebT

Denmark2980 Posts

May 22 2010 21:59 GMT

#147

On May 23 2010 06:54 Grebliv wrote:
You won't be able to use it if you ever get to play anything that really matters (Lan for $$$), and if you don't end up doing that what are you gaining?(If you think maphacking is a good idea this is like that x 0.000001), a tad more e-respect from some random people against the knowledge that you're not really playing entirely fair.

So a 20k+ TSL didn't really matter because it was an online tournament? :D

K, no more 1-liners.

Grumbels

Netherlands7031 Posts

May 22 2010 22:00 GMT

#148

Some of you seem to seriously consider banning people for using native functionality of widely used hardware. I highly doubt using a G500 (I have one) this way, which allows you to pick a few tasks in the game and do them better, would ever make a serious impact on the game. Maybe all professional players would need such a mouse, but if they're serious, why not get a gaming mouse anyway?

SchOOl_VicTIm

Greece2394 Posts

May 22 2010 22:03 GMT

#149

I would use it just for the f5 f6 f7 f8 buttons. It's RETARDED how they put it on the those keys instead of f2 f3 f4 like it was in bw, I used to macro completely with these keys, now I just aborted the whole "save screen" idea.

Anything more complicated than that is probably too much on the "cheating" side

Nutshell

United States41 Posts

May 22 2010 22:04 GMT

#150

On May 23 2010 07:00 Mothxal wrote:
Some of you seem to seriously consider banning people for using native functionality of widely used hardware. I highly doubt using a G500 (I have one) this way, which allows you to pick a few tasks in the game and do them better, would ever make a serious impact on the game. Maybe all professional players would need such a mouse, but if they're serious, why not get a gaming mouse anyway?

The funny thing is that macros actually make the game harder.

danbel1005

United States1319 Posts

May 22 2010 22:05 GMT

#151

Sometimes I just dont know what to think, cuz to be honest I love the game but looking at this stuff makes me sad and confuses me a lot. I mean, we are getting really close to the point where SC2 will be a game "no skills-required".
Autosplit, MBS,endless waypoints, multiple tasks, auto army spread and stuff, Smart Casting, big numbers of units (armies) on ONE hotkey, no need to be that accurate when grabbing units when building/using spells an such, and now a Macro Mouse??? Geez

What about Speech Recognition/Voice Commands?, seriously if we get there I just wont play the game.

Diks

Belgium1880 Posts

May 22 2010 22:06 GMT

#152

Actually i just think that a Macro that does :
2 (select marauders)
right click (you move you marauders)
wait xxx ms (where xxx is reload shot time of marauder)
H
wait YYY ms (where YYY is the animation time of a shot)
right click (you move you marauders)
and so on

there you have a macro for PERFECT marauder kiting controle

So : Mouse macro also allows easy non-human timed micro controle

LeX-

Canada49 Posts

May 22 2010 22:07 GMT

#153

No problem bind any key you want to ONE action (ie pressing 4 or pressing D)

But do not use this buttons for pressing more than one key (4ddd) for example.

People have been banned for this in other blizzard games can you can imagine this can happen here.

Shikyo

Finland33997 Posts

May 22 2010 22:08 GMT

#154

If you play with a clunky piece of garbage like that, I guess it's fair you'd get a macro so your effective APM can stay at the 150's.

LeX-

Canada49 Posts

May 22 2010 22:08 GMT

#155

On May 23 2010 07:05 danbel1005 wrote:
Sometimes I just dont know what to think, cuz to be honest I love the game but looking at this stuff makes me sad and confuses me a lot. I mean, we are getting really close to the point where SC2 will be a game "no skills-required".
Autosplit, MBS,endless waypoints, multiple tasks, auto army spread and stuff, Smart Casting, big numbers of units (armies) on ONE hotkey, no need to be that accurate when grabbing units when building/using spells an such, and now a Macro Mouse??? Geez

What about Speech Recognition/Voice Commands?, seriously if we get there I just wont play the game.

Talking is much slower than pressing a key.

MythicalMage

1360 Posts

May 22 2010 22:08 GMT

#156

To elaborate on what I said, previously, the problem isn't the mouse, it's the macro. Every mouse can move a cursor, and do any number of single action clicks. The issue is going beyond this, and doing multiple actions, thus automating a large part of the game. Additionally, Blizzard introduced the macro-mechanics like the Queen and the MULE to make you go back to your base. They were designed to make macro more important, and using this macro seems to make it amazingly unimportant. It effectively takes away responsibility, and the need for real focus in the game. It may not make a big difference in the pro scene, but it will make some, just like not having any delay in supply makes a difference. Additionally, in the lower leagues (which I remind you, are still competitive) it will likely destroy anything it's up against.

Nutshell

United States41 Posts

May 22 2010 22:22 GMT

#157

gonna quote a decent post from earlier in this thread (bold emphasis added):

ive attempted to use these sort of things just for the novelty value of them across various games and ive yet to play a game where it's actually a realistic benefit to use these things (of course i dont play any mmos, so they might help there)

they're all far too situationally specific to actually get any long term use out of, you're gonna become frustrated with it pretty soon. Either that or its a negligible difference, some guy used building a depot as an argument, i can do that in under half a second anyway, those extra few ms don't make a difference.

Everyone is so focused on whether or not it's cheating to realize that these macros just don't do anything special. You're better off just doing it without macros. They don't need to ban tying your shoelaces together in professional baseball because nobody is dumb enough to think it helps you play better.

DarkFenix

217 Posts

May 22 2010 22:29 GMT

#158

On May 22 2010 21:50 JohnQPublic wrote:
Blizz has specifically stated in the past that if you create macros that push more then one button then they will ban your account for it. It has happened to countless people in wow and its not even very useful for anything there. I guarantee that this won't be an issue as warden is very good at detecting anything of this sort, even random intervals (if the mouse is even capable of that) are fairly easy to detect because of the input methods they use.

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=14551555&postId=145201989&sid=1#0

I myself got a temp ban for using a macro on my nostromo just for logging in automatically, and I'm sure the rules will be even stricter in sc2.

Yeah, Im pretty sure it will be stricter. However, I wouldn't have guessed they were able to detect and ban this sort of behaviour in wow. Is blizzard doing the same thing on Wc3?

rS.Sinatra

Canada785 Posts

May 22 2010 22:32 GMT

#159

funny... hope u all know that the mice that razor is selling with starcraft 2's (blizzard's) name on it are all macro capable ... just thought you'd like to know that...

collegeBored

United States1524 Posts

May 22 2010 22:35 GMT

#160

its safe to assume anyone remotely competent wont have 10 larva sitting around so this saves you 1 button press to select larva and a couple of the same button presses to build a unit. if that makes a difference, you have far more serious problems to worry about