On May 21 2010 12:36 Tsagacity wrote: And with only 25 energy cost, actually using frenzy is just going to remind me of bloodlust spam in war3 =/ I definitely don't like the idea of buffs in Starcraft.
Yeah stimpack is a lame ability. REMOVE STIMPACK!
Didn't you know, Stimpack was first introduced in WC3.. even tho WC3 came out 4 years after BW!
Stimpack is a unit ability. Not a spell that is cast. You don't cast a stimpack on a single other unit/hero. You get a bunch of little units and use stimpack at once. There's a difference. Spells like the new corruption and now frenzy shouldn't exist in Starcraft because they basically imply that there's a unit worth casting the spell on (i.e. a "hero" unit). It just makes the game feel more like Warcraft than Starcraft.
On May 21 2010 16:59 iEchoic wrote: I actually knew they were overseers and typed that wrong, sorry about that.
Still though, Zerg is already extremely powerful, this seems like a HUGE buff that people are really overlooking. An aerial harassment unit for 100 resources that doesn't require a pre-requisite structure (other than base upgrades).
I think this is way more significant than people are giving it credit for.
The corrupter costs as much as an overseer, have more health and such, and before the patch it had exactly the same ability to shut down structures for exactly the same energy cost for exactly the same time...
And you sure had more corrupters than you will have overseers, this is a non issue. Also it isn't 100 resources, it is 50 minerals and 100 gas for the overseer upgrade and you need 100 minerals for the overlord. And as for the infested terran spell, you can spawn one every 4 minutes! Imba!!! In a normal game you will be able to get out 2-3 per overseer.
What's totally wrong about this is that you will have overlords anyway so yeah, in math it's +100 minerals for a single overseer BUT ingame you'll happily spend money on overlords anyway, dont you? So in conclusion all you have to pay 50/100 to upgrade an already existing unit of which you'll have plenty anyway. What worries a lot of people is that in lategame youll have a shitload of overlords which could be upgraded easily, move fast and can corrupt buildings while you are happily reinforcing your 200 supply within seconds. However, let's see how this will be used on higher level plays.
I agree on your Infestor argument tough, that is no big deal and propably some useful way to improve the overseer.
LOL @ sentries, first 25% dmg nerf to make them useless in the early game other than a few force fields, now this, to make them useless in lategame other than a few force fields -.-
Wow, every patch makes me lose more respect for blizzard... the people working during the bw/diablo era are obviously not the same people working now. It's like they have group of 11 year old WoW players making changes to the game. Zerg is a total abomination and Terran seems to be the golden child (lol at nerfing protoss in the most unimaginative way possible in order to appease crying T players). What happened to changing the void ray in a way that micro would more effective against it rather than bluntly nerfing it?
Don't people get paid to develop these games? I mean, isn't it someone's job to sit around and think of ideas for these video games? Like seriously WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING AT YOUR JOB IF YOU ALLOW ABSOLUTELY RETARDED SHIT LIKE THIS TO MAKE IT INTO THE GAME? I'm kind of hoping sc2 will be a complete failure so the entire current design team is fired and blizzard actually becomes a company that produces quality games again.
On May 21 2010 17:56 valaki wrote: LOL @ sentries, first 25% dmg nerf to make them useless in the early game other than a few force fields, now this, to make them useless in lategame other than a few force fields -.-
Are you really downplaying forcefields? That shit can be the difference between defeat and total domination.
So basically with how ultras are now you will be using them against protoss to: Break through chokes and with frenzy in battle(they were viable before patch 13, now they are less viable due to the hp nerf but with frenzy it balances itself out somewhat). I like this since now they cant be shut down completely by sentries.
Against terran on the other hand they will be used to: Melt even faster since now they only(yes only) have 450hp when going up against terran mech or even that big bio ball with all those juicy marauders. Resoning behind this: Marauders deal 20dmg to armored which means if you get 10 marauders(haha 10 marauders in a bio ball late game, yeah right, try 20 or 30 instead. But for arguments sake lets keep it restrictive). 10 marauders basically 2-shot ultras and if they have stim well they go down very fast. The saving grace might be the +25dmg to armored that ultras deal right now, and potential frenzy, we'll see. Maybe ultras go through marauders like a warm knife through butter. We'll see. Of course with ling support they might be hella effective but ling + ultras + a few infestors to cast frenzy = so much minerals and gas it aint funny, but then again its a endgame composition so it should be freaking expensive.
If they dont achieve the warm knife effect well then basically against Terran you'll use broodlords instead. Which is what I'm seeing but as always practical hands on experience will show whats up. All in all I trust blizz and do believe in this patch being for the better.
Lastly I can only see the infestor being used even more now than were before = more micro for the zerg. Good times.
On May 21 2010 12:36 Tsagacity wrote: And with only 25 energy cost, actually using frenzy is just going to remind me of bloodlust spam in war3 =/ I definitely don't like the idea of buffs in Starcraft.
Yeah stimpack is a lame ability. REMOVE STIMPACK!
Didn't you know, Stimpack was first introduced in WC3.. even tho WC3 came out 4 years after BW!
Stimpack is a unit ability. Not a spell that is cast. You don't cast a stimpack on a single other unit/hero. You get a bunch of little units and use stimpack at once. There's a difference. Spells like the new corruption and now frenzy shouldn't exist in Starcraft because they basically imply that there's a unit worth casting the spell on (i.e. a "hero" unit). It just makes the game feel more like Warcraft than Starcraft.
This is exactly what I'm thinking. Furthermore I think they just want to please every possible audience, from SC over WC3 to WoW players. Add in stuff from each game, mix it all up and we have the shitfest they labeled StarCraft right now. I'm getting more and more disappointed with this game.
Blizzard thinks we didn't use ultralisks because of spells like fungal growth, neural parasite, thor's stun and because they had low damages. Ultralisks being controled by spells is ok... it's the whole point of spells.
They had good damages, seriously these 20 zone damages were really good.
We didn't use ultralisks because of their speed, their size, their very costly uppgrade, their armor type.
Who though blizzard wouldn't do anything on ultralisk's uppgrade on patch 13?
The only good thing on ultralisks on this patch is the force field break.
er, so what is the point of taking away copper league and adding diamond league? isnt everyone just going to move up a league, so this change is to make everyone feel better? i thought the point of a league above platinum was because of the massive skill gap between top platinum and low platinum but it looks like it's just going to be the same thing all over again except in diamond. i think they should just keep copper in addition to adding a diamond league.
On May 21 2010 18:08 Zzoram wrote: Instead of using Frenzy on Ultras, is Frenzy on Roaches just as viable? It's only 25 energy.
Yeah was thinking the same. It's a good way to be able to use roaches as tanks again. Spam frenzy on ~10 roaches and see T's marauders piss their pants as concussive shells wont work anymore and you can move your roach/hydra army up close
On May 21 2010 12:36 Tsagacity wrote: And with only 25 energy cost, actually using frenzy is just going to remind me of bloodlust spam in war3 =/ I definitely don't like the idea of buffs in Starcraft.
Yeah stimpack is a lame ability. REMOVE STIMPACK!
Didn't you know, Stimpack was first introduced in WC3.. even tho WC3 came out 4 years after BW!
Stimpack is a unit ability. Not a spell that is cast. You don't cast a stimpack on a single other unit/hero. You get a bunch of little units and use stimpack at once. There's a difference. Spells like the new corruption and now frenzy shouldn't exist in Starcraft because they basically imply that there's a unit worth casting the spell on (i.e. a "hero" unit). It just makes the game feel more like Warcraft than Starcraft.
This is exactly what I'm thinking. Furthermore I think they just want to please every possible audience, from SC over WC3 to WoW players. Add in stuff from each game, mix it all up and we have the shitfest they labeled StarCraft right now. I'm getting more and more disappointed with this game.
I don't think it has anything to do with that, I think they are just trying to fit in a 3rd ability for the infestor - and there are only so many abilities to go around.
It's not too different from casting D-matrix on something anyway...
The protoss changes are pissing me off. Zerg and terran seem to have this awesome ability to be good with any tech/unit. There are even terran builds now that involve getting every tech structure which are hard to deal with.
With toss, I feel like I'm forced to go colossi... I've felt like that since day one. I think we need our tech tree to be as fancy as the other 2 races so people stop doing things like rushing voidrays or immortal pushing 90% of games. Blizzards idea of a fix to this in ZvP was making phoenix a loltastic counter to mutas... not very fun or challenging, it just removes the option for zerg to go mutas, it doesn't really mix up protosses ability to techshift.
On May 21 2010 17:35 Kantutan wrote: Frenzy is going to be so ridiculously overpowered. It looks as if they've added NO downsides to it? In WC3 it increased attack speed but increased incoming damage by 25% or something, which balanced it out. At 25 energy you can frenzy such a large amount of your army too... Also, I would have preferred if they kept the patch notes to themselves until they decided to release the patch, I'm left wondering when it's going to come out :\
Altough I disagree with Blizzard's balance policy. I can't aggre your opinion bercause in wc3 you could have less numbered army + heroes who can live for a long time during combat.
Think casting Frenzy to Hyralisk, they die very quickly.
If you think of ultralisk, this guy is dead trying to reach the enemy army anyway
On May 21 2010 17:45 Pekkz wrote: Blizzard is not the same who balanced bw. Some of these changes are completely retarded.
The problem with ultralisk was that it was too hard to get it up close without dieing. It was allready a massive unit, so it wouldnt get slowed by anything. Blizzard now nerfed hp, and buffed dmg, this only means it can get kited and killed even easier by marauders. The problem was never its damage, its damange was great, and 450 hp is only gonna screw it over even more. The problem was getting all the upgrades that you NEED before you get em, and then they cost shitloads of gass. One of their +armor or speed should be by default, that would help them more then anything.
I don't even think the main problem was being kited and killed. Good creep usage, good FG, and intelligent engagement beats kited marauders. The problem is teching to ultras. I mean, you need a hive + an ultra cavern + armor/speed. This takes ages. You don't really have the time to tech to them until you're already at a sizeable advantage against the terran.
I think the change in the leagues is not only a +1 lvl for everyone. There are too many beginners leagues and not enough "good level" league. There are so many difference of lvl in platinium league. Only the best platinium players will be in the diamond league.
I think this change will lead to a more homogeneous lvl in the leagues.
exactly, liek someone said TAHTS WHAT SPELLS ARE SUPPOSED TO DO this is too wc3 like... ultras shoudlve simply had more hp.. their damage was already insane
EPT
