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On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill.
Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today.
Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc.
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fuck all these idiots, djWHEAT you tried and it's not your fault there is no age minimum on the internet. Thank you for EVERYTHING that you do!
//one troll at a time
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On July 22 2011 11:39 LeFroMaGe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:36 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
Sooooo in a nutshell: koreans are upset that they cant sit on the best players of the world without contracts and when someone approaches those players outside of korea it is disrespectful because the coach has essentially no saying because he didnt contract his player and felt he could sit on the best players and keep beating foreigners for as long as he wants within his elite.
Pretty much this, I don't know if you also heard, but EG had contract talks about "transfers" (similar to soccer) with other Korean teams, but they were asking for ABSURD amounts of money according to Alex.
I thought this was a big reveal that didn't get much attention. To me, this makes it sound like EG had been approaching teams and talking to coaches, but they weren't hearing what they wanted to hear. So, they find a team that doesn't have contracts, that doesn't have a lot of money to offer, and they go right to the player instead of going to the coach. A lot of people keep asking why EG hadn't contacted TSL's coach in the hours since the story blew up, but this started at the NASL. So, it has been a couple weeks and EG never even thought to talk to the coach? I don't know, that just seems like more than a simple cultural misunderstanding. Combine that with Alex Garfield's general demeanor and attitude about the situation today, and I get the feel that things are far more nefarious than how EG is trying to sell it.
Of course, this is just speculation, but I'm not a journalist - I'm just a yahoo on a forum - so, I'm not required to abide by some standards of journalistic excellence beyond my own impressions, haha.
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In American sports, usually teams ask other teams permission to talk with coaches to interview them. So there is a precedent for that in the West. It was not smart for EG to not talk with TSL at all during this process. I also don't think it was smart for TSL to make some of the comments that they did.
This is a complex situation that touches on a number of areas. Milkis touched on a point that kind of got overlooked, and that's that SC2 isn't doing amazing in Korea. Outside of Korea, SC2 has grown organically, with tournaments sprouting up all over the place because the sponsorships are there. Inside Korea, they've had the opposite - they create a big huge tournament with a ton of prize money but team sponsorships and the viewers aren't there yet (or, at least, not compared with Brood War). This prevents teams from being able to support their players as much in Korea and can't match foreign teams offering better contracts.
Is culture really the reason that Puma wasn't under contract? I know nothing about Korean culture, so somebody please educate me. It's just such bad business, for the player and the team, that I can't believe it.
This could have been handled better by both sides. But without agents, rules specifying when and how players can sign to different teams like in pro sports, or any kind of international governing body, this kind of stuff will keep happening.
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On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc.
I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere.
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I tuned out before the end and such, what happened?
But great show as always, I don't like to take ones side so this is very interesting for me to hear.
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On July 22 2011 10:39 djWHEAT wrote:
Let me begin by saying... I knew this was going to be a tough show. So if some of you want to take one or two things that happened in this show and judge me based on that... then I guess I can't stop you.
I made plenty of mistakes while moderating. And I thought everyone (including Milkis) wanted to hear AG's side of the story (which we got plenty of - and I for one was happy to learn new details about the deal/approach). As that topic began to close and somehow we got on the topic of "how do teams do business", I quickly realized that I was pretty much fucked.
Why?
Cause Milkis admitted that he has basically no knowledge of eSports out of Korea.
So suddenly, I'm sitting here going, well fuck. How in the fuck do you let two guys argue over something will OBVIOUSLY take two VERY DIFFERENT paths. I don't even think Milkis knows that EG has contracted Street Fighter players, etc, and I'm not sure Alex realizes just how deep Milkis' BW roots go.
Want to know how I know this statement is 100% true?
Because we can pinpoint the exact moment this happened.
1 hour 21 minutes and 50 seconds into Part 1 of this vod.
Watch the look of supremely silent horror spread across Wheat's face as he realizes he just walked into Fuckville.
http://i.imgur.com/Ynb9B.jpg
This look is quickly followed up by the classic Tay Zonday 2007 "I move away from the mic so I can
breathe" maneuver indicative of someone who desperately wants to stop what could be a trainwreck in progress. Except maybe in this case its more of "I move away from the mic so I can ...SON OF A BITCH WHAT HAVE I DONE?"
The body language says it all.
<3 DjWheat.
You're a good man, you tried your best. We live, we learn, and we move on.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On July 22 2011 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc. I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere.
uhh literally every Korean I've played I either beat em or took 1 of 3 games
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On July 22 2011 12:27 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc. I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere. uhh literally every Korean I've played I either beat em or took 1 of 3 games
Sorry incontrol but you were more of a commentator than a gamer last few months.
Hope that will change since i was huge fan of yours before all that nasl and other casts started tt
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On July 22 2011 12:27 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc. I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere. uhh literally every Korean I've played I either beat em or took 1 of 3 games
i'm just imagining you reading through this thread wanting to reply to some of the dumb comments, maybe mine, but not being able to, don't want to cause a shitstorm
but at this, you bounce 
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To DjWheat: Still support and love you. Don't listen to most of this negativity. Couldn't be helped and sorry all this rage is being dumped on you.
Keep up all the good things man. You are an amazing and HUGE part of the SC2 community.
Gl and Hf!
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Haha thats the one bit of input you have for the whole duscission Incontrol? ;P
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On July 22 2011 12:27 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc. I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere. uhh literally every Korean I've played I either beat em or took 1 of 3 games
Wat? From liquipedia.
11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss
11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss
11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss
11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss
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On July 22 2011 12:33 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:27 iNcontroL wrote:On July 22 2011 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc. I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere. uhh literally every Korean I've played I either beat em or took 1 of 3 games Wat? From liquipedia. Show nested quote +11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss
11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss Show nested quote +11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss
11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss
I don't think he meant literally literally. He has beating top Koreans and lost to top Koreans. MLG Columbus is a good example.
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Very disappointed in DJ Wheat, and EG with this entire thing. You guys had an opportunity to do damage control and perhaps start mending all of this garbage.
Instead you guys create more drama. This entire event reeks of impulse and unprofessionalism.
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On July 22 2011 12:27 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc. I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere. uhh literally every Korean I've played I either beat em or took 1 of 3 games
In MLG you took a map off of Losira, then lost 0-2 to Select, ending up 22nd in the tournament. In the same tournament, machine only managed to win 2 matches, going 2-0 against you and 2-1 against major, then losing to TLO, haypro and losira. Placed 15th in the tournament.
In terms of the non-korean scene, you both do very well. However, Puma is not the sort of player who should even be grouped in the same category. After having such a remarkable run in the NASL, he is clearly a world class player, and there is a gigantic, obvious gap between him and the rest of EG. A 22nd and 15th place finish are downright impossible for someone like him. My point wasn't to bash you, but instead to make it clear that he is taking a huge blow to his training capabilities if he ends up at the EG house.
However, I'd imagine that you and Idra wouldn't want that to happen, since you have both made it clear in various interviews that what they have in Korea leads to better players. And since EG recruited him based on results, I'd imagine you guys would want to keep it that way...
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On July 22 2011 12:39 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:33 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:27 iNcontroL wrote:On July 22 2011 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc. I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere. uhh literally every Korean I've played I either beat em or took 1 of 3 games Wat? From liquipedia. 11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss
11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss 11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss
11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss I don't think he meant literally literally. He has beating top Koreans and lost to top Koreans. MLG Columbus is a good example.
What are you talking about? at mlg columbus he lost to korean he played. ;o
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On July 22 2011 11:31 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:54 SonicBoxer wrote:On July 22 2011 10:48 djWHEAT wrote:
Ok. From this point forward I'm never having guests on a show ever again. That will just solve everything. I can't be held accountable for how much a guests talks, or how little he talks.
So, I'll just stop doing it. You fucking paint me as this bad guy... and that's not the case at all.
Fuck it. That's the thing Wheat, you do have the power to control how much or how little they talk. For instance, at the end of the interview Alex spent a long time questioning the ethics of Milkis posting the tranlated interview without going to EG first. Then, when Milkis tried to explain why it is not his job to get EG's side of the story, you cut him off. I understand that the conversation was getting uncomfortable, but allowing Alex to throw a lot of accusations Milkis way (some which were completely unfounded) was what took it down that road in the first place. This is how I felt throughout the whole ordeal. The moderator has the power to control what and how the questions are asked, and how much room you give for responses. In fact, that is the moderator's most important job. If you let Alex go off-tangent on asking about Milkis' unprofessional "journalism," you must let Milkis respond instead of cutting him off. Of course it would have been the best to simply stop Alex from asking the question. But afterwards you even interject your own opinion into the discussion, giving Milkis even less time and space to work with. I felt this happened couple times during the show, and with all due respect hope that you will be able to do a better job next time. It was impossible not to get irritated at what kind of position Milkis was being put in.
This. Throwing a little temper tantrum then saying you did "a Coach Lee" is very unprofessional, especially given the topic.
You let Alex rip into Milkis, and when Milkis finally was able to talk - you cut him off time after time sometimes he only got one sentence out before you cut him off. If you don't think Alex could of handled the retort that Milkis was going to come back out with - then you should of cut Alex off way before he even got to the point. Today was a prime example of your inexperience in moderating such a heated debate with someone much more experienced then the other party. Giving Milkis more time to explain his answers and thought process would of evened out the experience between Alex and Milkis, but you did the reverse and let the more experience talk for longer, and then the "EG" mentality kicked in, and Alex thought he was superior to Milkis and started to trash talk his profession.
You're the host, your inexperience with the amount of pressure Alex was putting on made you crumble. Your hosting is usually great fun, entertaining and easy to flow with, but today's was just utter garbage - it seemed like it was your first time ever doing it. Alex was the moderator in that call, and there was quite literally no presence from you or Milkis.
I'm not trying to attack you or anything, I'm just pointing out that it was a terrible idea to get on someone so over-spoken and someone who is quiet, that there will just give the over-spoken person a signal of dominance already and from the get go Milkis was getting ripped into from Alex, and you did nothing to stop it, and only aided Alex by cutting off Milkis when he was trying to give counter arguments or defend himself.
Hopefully future decisions of guests won't turn out to be like today's - someone who is loud, gets to the point so late and takes control against a soft spoken person. It could work with correct moderation but you were overwhelmed by Alex.
I just hope you gained a lot of experience at trying to moderate such loud and ignorant person and look back at today and try to make as unbiased calls you can without hindering the topic. As a host of the show, today was a clear picture of your inability to handle said situation. Again, I hope it gave you a lot of experience in dealing with this kind of situation in the future.
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On July 22 2011 12:39 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 12:33 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:27 iNcontroL wrote:On July 22 2011 12:19 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 12:13 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2011 12:10 nvs. wrote:On July 22 2011 12:08 Mohdoo wrote:On July 22 2011 11:59 Ekval wrote:EG's PR machine was slow out of the hanger and crashed-landed on a remote island. I just don't think EG cares...they are plainly better than everyone and will do as they please. Care to elaborate on how you say EG is "better than everyone"? Their star player hasn't won anything in years and the rest of their team would be struggle to get top 8 in almost any international event. Puma took a major downgrade in practice partners for some quick cash. He managed to win $50,000 as a result of his training in TSL. He's going to need a pretty damn good salary on EG to make up for his tournament winnings plummeting after a few months of training with NA players. Ask any member of EG and they will agree that they are significantly worse than Korean professionals right now. Even Idra has said that Koreans are way, way ahead of everyone right now. And Alex from EG mentioned that Puma will be training in the EG house in Korea. Going from an (obviously) great coach + great practice partners + KR ladder to ----> (Does EG even have a coach?) + practice partners Puma greatly outclasses, except for Idra, whom he somewhat outclasses + **NA ladder** is bound to harshly impact his ability to keep up with Korean power houses who continue to train as hard as they can on Korean teams. And even though they are international events, the only real contenders will be Korean trained players. It doesn't matter if he's better than all of NA or EU. They aren't his real opponents at events. I think he is talking in terms of attitude and not in-game skill. Mohdoo probably knew that, but wanted to get his EG hate rant out like everyone else seems to want to do today. Apparently every member of EG is shit and it's 100% impossible to improve in that team etc etc. I never said that its impossible. However, since the release of SC2, the players of EG have been losing ground consistently to the Korean scene. Idra hasn't won a tournament in forever. Machine and Incontrol don't seem to be able to take games from Koreans anymore. Its not exactly a stretch to say that it seems like they may not be as good of practice partners and that they certainly provide a much worse atmosphere. uhh literally every Korean I've played I either beat em or took 1 of 3 games Wat? From liquipedia. 11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss
11-01-14 FXO StS Invitational (?) (P)oGsHero Loss 11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss
11-04-23 FXO Invitational #3 Unknown (T)TheStC Loss I don't think he meant literally literally. He has beating top Koreans and lost to top Koreans. MLG Columbus is a good example.
his tlpd says the only korean he has ever beaten in a tournament is ensnare and he only took games off of them at mlgc
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On July 22 2011 12:32 RedBack wrote:
Haha thats the one bit of input you have for the whole duscission Incontrol? ;P
I can ignore a lot but flat lies about my gaming specifically bother me. Unlike all of you this is my life.
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EPT
