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I am just watching extreme masters and how MVP smashs the Protosses with his widow mine drop opening into massive afterburn usage style is not funny from the Protoss perspective.
The real thing is, he talks to his teammate Yoda after game 2 and then in game 3 yoda uses the same style against parting and smashes him by it 
I think protoss is against this strategy defintley hard in the disadvantage. P can only hope for defending all this drops and doesnt come strongly behind in the first 10 minutes of the game. I guess even with nearly perfect defense you will get behind in arround 50 % of the games during that time and terran chances of loosing something in the high skill level are arround 0 because of the afterburn.
What do you think guys ?
Update: Here are the vods of the games
Grubby vs Mvp
Mana vs Mvp
Parting vs Yoda
First vs Yoda
The strategy made overall 9-1 stats. Grubby lost 2 games to it, Mana 3, Parting lost 2 games out of 5 against it and First 2 games out of 4. Parting was able to hold it in game 4 but was econmically behind and had 20 supply less but was able with some good storms to survive and fight back in the late game. First could defend it on ohana in game 1. But he lost 2 other games against it.
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Like Artosis said in SOTG last night, you really, really have to buckle yourself in once the Terran gets medivacs out. Disregarding possible "imbalance," you either die to the drop because you played towards securing a third for the macro game, or you survive the drop but are behind in the macro game.
Obviously, being behind in the macro game is the lesser of two evils.
The strength of the drop is not just that allows Terran to rocket into your base and snipe important tech much more quickly - it's that it allows the drop to LEAVE with minimum risk (which is silly), often even if the Protoss has invested a lot into defending the timing.
Not to mention the fact that splitting up your forces poses a huge risk at your nat.
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please don't start screaming imbalance, the game isn't even out yet.
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On March 09 2013 02:17 Qwyn wrote:
Like Artosis said in SOTG last night, you really, really have to buckle yourself in once the Terran gets medivacs out. Disregarding possible "imbalance," you either die to the drop because you played towards securing a third for the macro game, or you survive the drop but are behind in the macro game.
Obviously, being behind in the macro game is the lesser of two evils.
The strength of the drop is not just that allows Terran to rocket into your base and snipe important tech much more quickly - it's that it allows the drop to LEAVE with minimum risk (which is silly), often even if the Protoss has invested a lot into defending the timing.
Not to mention the fact that splitting up your forces poses a huge risk at your nat.
Artosis also said they might need to be looked at, to be fair. I don't think they are totally broken, but the protoss could do with a little more warning before its full "doom drop" time. Or blink needs to be faster/easier to get, because it has been nerfed so far back, defending against this with blinkless stalkers is really rough. But that makes blink stalker all-ins more awesome.
But the ability is awesome and rewards the better player. Protoss just needs a way to defend it that does require them to have units on top of the drop zone as the units are pouring out. Or ESP.
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I think it's totally fair; we get photon overcharge so naturally Terran's tools have to be revamped up to make drops even viable. As long as it's possible to scout and prepare for this, it's not overpowered. We have free hallucination. In a month P will spot this coming from a mile away. Here's how it goes: open standard, scout with hallucinated phoenix, see factory and starport, get detection, position msc and a few stalkers, and continue as normal.
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I have a feeling afterburners is going to get nerfed because 400 APM Terrans can rip people apart and us Joe Masters Terrans are going to be screwed again 
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On March 09 2013 02:37 tehemperorer wrote:
I think it's totally fair; we get photon overcharge so naturally Terran's tools have to be revamped up to make drops even viable. As long as it's possible to scout and prepare for this, it's not overpowered. We have free hallucination. In a month P will spot this coming from a mile away. Here's how it goes: open standard, scout with hallucinated phoenix, see factory and starport, get detection, position msc and a few stalkers, and continue as normal.
The thing that people discussing is the doom drops that people have been using against protoss on 2 bases. The terran threatens the doom drop with four medivacs simply cannot leave or gain map control because the terran's army is so fast.
I also agree that it is likely not broken as a whole, it is more about the specific timing when the protoss doesn't have a lot of mobility or map presence that can really put them behind. The solution could be cheaper and/or faster observers and nothing that directly nerfs the boost ability.
But again, the ability is totally awesome and just needs a cooler animation.(its all afterburners).
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On March 09 2013 02:20 renaissanceMAN wrote:
please don't start screaming imbalance, the game isn't even out yet.
People have been complaining about Medivac boost since its implementation. All Mvp's game did was bring more attention to the matter. You say he shouldn't talk about balance because the game isn't out yet? There was a beta test specifically for the purpose of balancing multiplayer before they release the game. That being said, there will probably be a bit of time allotted after the game is released before Blizzard attempts to release a patch, so they can observe if players learn how to deal with it.
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On March 09 2013 02:46 wongfeihung wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 02:20 renaissanceMAN wrote:
please don't start screaming imbalance, the game isn't even out yet. People have been complaining about Medivac boost since its implementation. All Mvp's game did was bring more attention to the matter. You say he shouldn't talk about balance because the game isn't out yet? There was a beta test specifically for the purpose of balancing multiplayer before they release the game. That being said, there will probably be a bit of time allotted after the game is released before Blizzard attempts to release a patch, so they can observe if players learn how to deal with it.
the majority of the population that will play HoTS has still not touched it yet. I don't want to see the medivac nerfed before there's been adequate time for the other races to adapt to it. This is what Blizzard did pre-queen/overlord buff etc. and it sucked! Things were much better after they realized that the meta-game shifts around.
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I don't want to call the ability imbalanced yet, however my gut tells me that it simply needs a little more risk vs. reward because it is very powerful.
At first I had thought of giving it an energy cost of say 25 so that if the terran chooses to boost from starport across the map, boost into your base and then boost out that would b 75 less energy to heal the units involved in the drop with. but widow mines don't benefit from the heal so this would solve nothing for the widow mine variant 
and then i simply thought; what if they just increased the CD of the ability by like 10 seconds, as is they can speed past your defense, drop, do some damage and speed out before you can respond. with an increased CD the terran may choose to speed past your defense to get more/gauranteed damage in -OR- get reduce the effectiveness of the drop but ensure escape without loss but not both unless the protoss is caught completely off-gaurd due to lack of porper scouting/preperation which sounds fair to me.
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On March 09 2013 02:52 Phoobie wrote:I don't want to call the ability imbalanced yet, however my gut tells me that it simply needs a little more risk vs. reward because it is very powerful. At first I had thought of giving it an energy cost of say 25 so that if the terran chooses to boost from starport across the map, boost into your base and then boost out that would b 75 less energy to heal the units involved in the drop with. but widow mines don't benefit from the heal so this would solve nothing for the widow mine variant and then i simply thought; what if they just increased the CD of the ability by like 10 seconds, as is they can speed past your defense, drop, do some damage and speed out before you can respond. with an increased CD the terran may choose to speed past your defense to get more/gauranteed damage in -OR- get reduce the effectiveness of the drop but ensure escape without loss but not both unless the protoss is caught completely off-gaurd due to lack of porper scouting/preperation which sounds fair to me.
Personally, I just want to be able to see if the ability is available for the terran. Some sort of visual que that its no longer on cool down and I need to be ready for it to zip off into the sunset would be helpful. Or just alter the turning radius of the medivac when it is boosting, so it is harder to control and requires the player to get really good controling it while boosted. That would also "limit" where it could go a specific point, allowing the other player to prepare for it as long as their scouting was good.
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As a Terran, I feel like the medivac speed boost should have more significant drawbacks. Even just something like a 5 sec longer cooldown would make a big difference. As it is, it's available at any timing you might need it.
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On March 09 2013 02:20 renaissanceMAN wrote:
please don't start screaming imbalance, the game isn't even out yet.
Please read.
Is not crying for op, is a lovelly analysis (as dw.Justify and Qwyn made) of the new techs in the hands players who play the game best.
I said it in other threads, the speedvacs are pretty obviously too strong since beta started in TvP, pretty sad to see blizz not even seeing this coming in their reports (sadly, as usual u.u).
dw.Justify and Qwyn posts resumes pretty well the issues.
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Did PartinG hold this in game 4 ?
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I think the boost ability should simply damage the medivac a little bit, maybe 10-15% of it's current hp everytime it gets used.
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So,once again T OP,right? But WHY? Only because after 3 years of 10-11 mins drops aggression in TvP,the Protoss Pros decide to not put units to defend??? Tastossis are talking in GSL every TvP that "You need at least one Collossus to defend those drops,you know are coming".Now in HotS the P players think this is not more viable,only because the Medivacs are quicker...Really??? HTs and Feedback are gone? Stalkers and Collosi are out of the game??? Free hallu there,MScore+Photon overcharge and still no defense??? Only because Parting lost 2 games on Ohana and Entombed due to silly and scouted cheese,we are gonna say medivacs are OP??? The moment the P players realise how good are Oracles,things are gonna change a lot.Just check the Dream vs First game
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I still think I'd like to wait and see if players we feel are inferior to better Protoss can still abuse this and pick them apart. I'm not ready to say we need a massive redesign because the best SC2 player in the world managed to pick apart Mana.
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I do think Protoss got enough new defensive capabilities and scouting capabilities against this.
Afterburners should probable have a energy cost though, maybe 25 energy ? Either that or a slightly longer cooldown. But too be honest we have seen way to few games to be sure.
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did you have to also spoil the yoda parting series in this post?
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I dont think its time already to balance whine.. give it some time atleast so Protoss can try to figure something out.
Maybe you just need a faster blink, then you can shut 1 or 2 medivacs down pretty easily. Doom drops are another thing and i personally think its good that they are stronger.
If the nerf is really needed after some time, maybe Medivacs shouldnt be able to load/unload units while the booster is on?
that way you have to time it perfectly, else your medivac just sits in the opponents base and cant get the units out
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EPT
