EPTGive siege tanks, and possibly thors, an upgrade which increases their damage to mechanical targets. This would have zero effect on TvZ, and probably very little in TvT, since it won't be any harder than now to go Bio vs Mech. In TvP, this will mean that siege tanks be even better vs sentries, stalkers, and colossi, while thors in addition will deal with all protoss air units (all Protoss air is mechanical, including Tempests and Oracles). It being an upgrade will prevent 1/1/1 from becoming the bread and butter of Terran players again. It would probably be for the best that the upgrade doesn't affect the damage to immortals while their shields are up, considering Protoss has next to nothing left to deal with a Tank/Thor/Hellbat combo with this change.
Blizzard to focus on Mech this week. - Page 6
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Odecey
Norway27 Posts
Give siege tanks, and possibly thors, an upgrade which increases their damage to mechanical targets. This would have zero effect on TvZ, and probably very little in TvT, since it won't be any harder than now to go Bio vs Mech. In TvP, this will mean that siege tanks be even better vs sentries, stalkers, and colossi, while thors in addition will deal with all protoss air units (all Protoss air is mechanical, including Tempests and Oracles). It being an upgrade will prevent 1/1/1 from becoming the bread and butter of Terran players again. It would probably be for the best that the upgrade doesn't affect the damage to immortals while their shields are up, considering Protoss has next to nothing left to deal with a Tank/Thor/Hellbat combo with this change. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On January 09 2013 09:53 AdrianHealey wrote: Immortal + 50 shields? Immortal/Sentry all in says hi.  hardly matters.. Against roaches the hardened shield is worth 60-80 shields as it reduces the 16-18 roach damage to 10 on it. With lings it might be worth a bit less therefore 50 shields pretty much leave immortals the same against zerg. All in all a bit of extra shield or hardened shield pretty much comes out the same against MM, roach/ling or stalkers. Only against tanks, thors and ultralisks is that hardened shield really good.. Because of this I definately think hardened shield is the thing to tinker with to 'buff' tanks in TvP. Mech can work then without having the perfect emps but doesn't get stronger when it does land the emps which is good imo. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On January 09 2013 11:01 Odecey wrote: I'll restate an idea I had a while ago regarding this: Give siege tanks, and possibly thors, an upgrade which increases their damage to mechanical targets. This would have zero effect on TvZ, and probably very little in TvT, since it won't be any harder than now to go Bio vs Mech. In TvP, this will mean that siege tanks be even better vs sentries, stalkers, and colossi, while thors in addition will deal with all protoss air units (all Protoss air is mechanical, including Tempests and Oracles). It being an upgrade will prevent 1/1/1 from becoming the bread and butter of Terran players again. It would probably be for the best that the upgrade doesn't affect the damage to immortals while their shields are up, considering Protoss has next to nothing left to deal with a Tank/Thor/Hellbat combo with this change. bonus to mechanical was basically what the warhound was. It can work as a fix for TvP but it would also have the nasty effect that mech vs mech becomes really stale in TvT.. Afterall tanks would start to do more damage to eachother so getting the first shot becomes more crucial. You could rarely break a sieged up tank line anymore even if you had a numerical advantage because the first free volley the defender get would be so damn strong. Perhaps bonus to mechanical on the widow mine is good though. | ||
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
Lockdown on ghosts, though. Nothing unusual about limiting the target profile of Ghost abilities. Snipe is Biological only, Lockdown as Mechanical only. | ||
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vesicular
United States1310 Posts
On January 09 2013 11:01 Odecey wrote: I'll restate an idea I had a while ago regarding this: Give siege tanks, and possibly thors, an upgrade which increases their damage to mechanical targets. How is a player supposed to know this has been upgraded and to potentially switch to bio? And if they do tech switch to bio, now mech upgraded units are at a disadvantage. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On January 09 2013 11:35 vesicular wrote: How is a player supposed to know this has been upgraded and to potentially switch to bio? And if they do tech switch to bio, now mech upgraded units are at a disadvantage. If you're talking about TvT and lategame situations, both players should be starting on air tech. If one player decides to go heavy on the mech, the other player can just tech to air faster. Why on earth would you tech DOWN to bio? If you mean that both players are going marine/tank, you would just match the upgrade and continue to play as normal. (If you're playing marine/tank against mech, you should have switched to bio a long time ago). Sorry, this was just a nitpick. I'll try to be more constructive in the future, lol. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On January 09 2013 11:28 ledarsi wrote: I don't like the idea of bonus damage to Mechanical. In fact I would prefer it if Archons' bonus damage to Biological were removed from an abstract design perspective. Increase their damage if you must, but those flags are terrible for balancing damage because of how obviously disproportionate they are between the races. Lockdown on ghosts, though. Nothing unusual about limiting the target profile of Ghost abilities. Snipe is Biological only, Lockdown as Mechanical only. I think that this whole "bonus to x" system that Blizzard has worked out in SC2 is really one of the most problematic things with the game. The fact that half of SC2 units do extra damage to armored, light, or massive shows that Blizzard cannot seem to find an elegant, simple design. The Ultralisk flat 35 damage was the best thing Blizzard's done in a long time for making the game better, and I hope they try some solution like that for tanks (like 60-70 flat damage) or immortals (40 flat damage). | ||
Falling
Canada11519 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On January 09 2013 12:24 Falling wrote: I hope they can pull something off. Mech is fun to play against and unique to Starcraft from any other RTS and so I would really like to see the return of the tank (but that probably requires the phase out of the immortal.) Well, if Blizzard ever plans on "phasing out" the immortal, we'll know as soon as hardened shield becomes a 200 mana ability and they increase the unit size by 5000%, allowing you to only build 1. | ||
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Tommyth
Poland117 Posts
On January 09 2013 12:24 Falling wrote: I hope they can pull something off. Mech is fun to play against and unique to Starcraft from any other RTS and so I would really like to see the return of the tank (but that probably requires the phase out of the immortal.) If u phase out the immortal, toss won't be able to handle new ultras. Roaches will be a pain in the ass ,too. Mech could use a walker with marine like low-damage high attack speed. Viking's ground form could be tweaked and become available at factory, with transformation to air mode enabled after getting starport. Also making them use different upgrades could work too. | ||
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mannerless
Brazil86 Posts
On January 09 2013 12:47 Tommyth wrote: If u phase out the immortal, toss won't be able to handle new ultras. Roaches will be a pain in the ass ,too. Mech could use a walker with marine like low-damage high attack speed. Viking's ground form could be tweaked and become available at factory, with transformation to air mode enabled after getting starport. Also making them use different upgrades could work too. Not when Immortals can 2 shot them after upgrades. Immortals aren't the problem, EMP+anything rapes them. The biggest problem with mech is the lack of better anti-air, especially against Tempest. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 09 2013 12:24 Falling wrote: I hope they can pull something off. Mech is fun to play against and unique to Starcraft from any other RTS and so I would really like to see the return of the tank (but that probably requires the phase out of the immortal.) I really hope they do not do that. I like the Immortal a lot and really don't want to see it go. If anything, I want to build more of them. Making it a more all around good unit, rather than the unit that mauls tanks, would be in my book. Or just make tanks ruin them when the shields drop. | ||
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Tommyth
Poland117 Posts
On January 09 2013 12:53 mannerless wrote: Not when Immortals can 2 shot them after upgrades. Immortals aren't the problem, EMP+anything rapes them. The biggest problem with mech is the lack of better anti-air, especially against Tempest. I'm not confident that's true - was lack of anti air a true reason of mech being not viable in WoL? Toss didn't have tempests, in theory could go carriers, but vikings were quite capable of handling them. Also I believe that there hasn't been enough time to prove that vikings aren't able to handle tempests. I don't know how many people are trying to play mech in hots, but the truth is the best of the best are still playing WoL. Saying that tempests counter mech at this point is just theorycrafting, imho. | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:09 Plansix wrote: I really hope they do not do that. I like the Immortal a lot and really don't want to see it go. If anything, I want to build more of them. Making it a more all around good unit, rather than the unit that mauls tanks, would be in my book. Or just make tanks ruin them when the shields drop. Yeah basically this. Instead of being an anti-armoured sniper they should be maybe a general purpose damage dealer that the toss gateway army so desperately needs at times? They're effectiveness exponentially goes up against high burst damage dealers like tanks where as the hardened shields dont do much against rapid damage dealers or just against alot of foes. Im sure blizzard is aware of the relationships between immortals and these units. Its just a matter of what "solutions" to implement to this issue or it could very well be a non issue. Also those saying emps rape immortal, well just because hardened shield is down doesn't mean they going to fall like flies. If it was the case mech would actually be viable.. but reality is that it isn't. Its quite saddening when a bunch of stimmed MM could kill immortals faster/cheaper more efficiently than ghost emp/tank focus fire hence why immortals aren't used much against bio even if the terran is going marauder heavy. | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On January 09 2013 13:14 Tommyth wrote: I'm not confident that's true - was lack of anti air a true reason of mech being not viable in WoL? Toss didn't have tempests, in theory could go carriers, but vikings were quite capable of handling them. Also I believe that there hasn't been enough time to prove that vikings aren't able to handle tempests. I don't know how many people are trying to play mech in hots, but the truth is the best of the best are still playing WoL. Saying that tempests counter mech at this point is just theorycrafting, imho. Yes. Think of the production cost and the limited amount of gas from early to mid game. A single void ray could pose a threat to a hellion/tank army. Thors don't cut it due to being so expensive and cumbersome (getting marines wont cut it either). So now you have to atleast get a single starport along with a ghost academy for immortals/archons. You can already see just how hard it is to mech looking at the required tech/investment just to survive. And do you play HOTS? I do. Morrow does and a whole bunch of Terrans that I think are pretty good. Tempests are like the final nail in the coffin to mech and I wouldn't surprised if those who have witnessed what they do agree with me on this one. | ||
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ETisME
12715 Posts
Pure mech nowadays work, it's just not that viable because it's hard to have consistent wins with it. It's also much more constrained by map design etc They really should add in another unit in. It may imbalanced but they will have an extra tool to tweak for further patch to patch up mech. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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obsid
United States389 Posts
1) buff thier single target dmg, nerf their splash damage (single target dmg is much more effective against toss, while splash is better against zerg, so this would make the tank more effective against toss while keeping zerg balanced) 2) give tanks a bonus vs mech (most mech units are toss without effecting tvt much as they would be just as good against bio as current) 3) give tank a bonus vs shields | ||
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MasterCynical
505 Posts
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