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On December 19 2012 10:54 Doc Daneeka wrote:
widow mine nerf is fine. blink nerf makes sense to me given the early high ground vision from the mothership core, though i don't know if that's precisely what they were trying to address. caduceus reactor was absurd so good move, dunno if it'll be enough.
i'm kind of torn on the fungal buff. yeah it was nerfed too much before, but i almost wish they'd increase the root time or the DPS instead of this... fungal was actually starting to become fun to watch. i'd rather they design it to punish getting caught by it somehow rather than make it easier to get caught. but maybe they think it'll function too much like storm in that case? i dunno.
How can you say that. THey make it useless vs protoss. Is that great game design?
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Fungal range 10 what a fucking joke
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blizzard spent alot of time designing things for this game. They just want them to stay still for long enough so people can see how nice they look. Its just a shame about the green fungus that has grow on top of them for this to happen.
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will 3-gate blink stalker pvp still be viable? I'm going to assume no.
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On December 19 2012 10:21 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 10:19 Zelniq wrote:
The complaints are reasonable, I've removed the edits. It was a mistake. I felt the quote of DK was was a perfectly reasonable addition, as it is a further explanation to their reasoning. The other stuff, maybe no so much, but the community can get riled up over big numbers that they don't understand and have not tested.
That's why they are not game designers... I pretty much get used to people riling up after balance change now.
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On December 19 2012 10:55 hunts wrote:
I mean you people DO realize that 10 range with the travel time is still much much worse than 9 range instant, right? Or do you actually think it's a significant buff that will make infestors god mode in HOTS or something?
These people are very stupid.. All they do is cry.
It took me but seconds to realize that an increased range whilst still being a projectile isn't that much of a buff, it is enough travel time for your opponent to micro out of it.
The range increase and speed increase means you can land fungals, however the range increase means your opponents can micro out of it.. Infestors are always going to be casting from 10 range or else they are instakilled.
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Well was not expecting that blink change...
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The slow projectile was really strange imo. I don't like being totally unable to hit anything even if I'm good at aiming. So having be a fast-but-not-instant projectile makes a lot of sense to me.
I don't understand making it range 10 though. I don't see any reason why Fungal should have longer range than Storm...
I doubt it'll stay that way. They'll probably just reduce the range again...
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I'm actually a little worried about the blink change. I feel like the problem with 1b blink with msc is more about msc, and nerfs to blink upgrade actually open up big timing windows where a Protoss player can be really vulnerable.
The armory change is fairly reasonable imo, but the widow mine losing some important OHKOs is a little unnerving.
As for Infestor buff.. since when has Blizzard accepted the fact that a support unit is the counter to everything and should be massed in favour of pretty much everything else? Buff something else maybe?
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Everyone begs blizzard to make drastic beta changes, and fine tune later.
Now your all QQing when blizz dials back a few drastic changes.
There's no winning here.
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On December 19 2012 11:23 DoubleReed wrote:
The slow projectile was really strange imo. I don't like being totally unable to hit anything even if I'm good at aiming. So having be a fast-but-not-instant projectile makes a lot of sense to me.
I don't understand making it range 10 though. I don't see any reason why Fungal should have longer range than Storm...
I doubt it'll stay that way. They'll probably just reduce the range again...
I don't play Zerg but I agree with DoubleReed's sentiments, here ^^ 
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I imagine projectile speed works on the same fundamental as movement speed of units, minus acceleration. This means the ability to dodge it can be done through ratios without knowing actual timings.
Fungal projectile has a movement speed of 15, while a muta has a movement speed of 4 (in HotS). In the time it takes for fungal to hit a target at X distance away, a muta can move 26.67% of that distance. Fungal has a radius of 2. That means the max distance you can click directly on a muta and hit is 7.5.
Now, what is the minimum speed that a unit can move without getting hit by a decently aimed fungal at 10 range? 3 is the minimum speed. Anything slower than that and a fungal will guarantee a hit. If it's a pack of units, the total movement needed to completely escape is 6, which can only be done with speedlings on creep.
There isn't ANY reaction time allocated to this change, only bad aim on the Zerg's part. That makes it no different than an instant cast spell.
Edit: Had "miss" instead of "hit."
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On December 19 2012 11:21 stormchaser wrote:
will 3-gate blink stalker pvp still be viable? I'm going to assume no.
No, it will hit way too late (assuming you mean the Robo-less all-in).
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On December 19 2012 11:23 dyDrawer wrote:
I'm actually a little worried about the blink change. I feel like the problem with 1b blink with msc is more about msc, and nerfs to blink upgrade actually open up big timing windows where a Protoss player can be really vulnerable.
The armory change is fairly reasonable imo, but the widow mine losing some important OHKOs is a little unnerving.
As for Infestor buff.. since when has Blizzard accepted the fact that a support unit is the counter to everything and should be massed in favour of pretty much everything else? Buff something else maybe?
I must be missing the instances where blink was being researched as a defensive upgrade.
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Balance has left the game!
Blizzard was victorious !
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Huh, I thought a lot of the units were made to have 160 or less HP just so the widow mine could still 1-shot them. What has 120 hp or less? workers, marine, marauder, reaper, hellion, widow mine, ling, bane, hydra, infestor, muta, sentry, observer, HT, DT. Terrible. And it's still 2 supply. lol
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Well, the server is back up. Time to test...
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On December 19 2012 11:02 one-one-one wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 10:56 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Terran: I've felt that Widow Mines were too powerful for a rather cheap unit that is Reactor produced, so props to this. The Caduceus Reactor nerf is just weird, I think Blizzard is intending to encourage BC usage or something, but the bigger problem is how powerful the upgrade is in the early game, but I think they have the right idea to force it to be a late-game upgrade.
Protoss: At least Blink all-ins versus Terran will be reduced, and it creates more diversity in the match-up.
Zerg: Okay, this is just weird. Blizzard spends all this time collecting community feedback on how Infestors were too strong, and now they decide to buff them again? Ten range and increased projectile speed? Seriously, Infestors are fine as they are, and if the issue is with ZvZ Mutas, maybe increase the speed of the projectile at most, but 10 range is insane. In BW a tank + a spider mine was 2 supply. In Sc2 it is 5 supply. No wonder that mech sucks ...
meanwhile zergs can suddenly create an army of 0 supply with nothing but energy.
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Why did people complain about zvz? Muta wars are 10x more fun than infestor wars.
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EPT
