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On December 19 2012 10:24 SolidMoose wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 10:21 Plansix wrote:On December 19 2012 10:19 Zelniq wrote:
The complaints are reasonable, I've removed the edits. It was a mistake. I felt the quote of DK was was a perfectly reasonable addition, as it is a further explanation to their reasoning. The other stuff, maybe no so much, but the community can get riled up over big numbers that they don't understand and have not tested. It could be there, but I mean, what he said is just flat out wrong. The video posted earlier clearly shows that the projectile speed is incredibly fast and the range now allows fungal through fog.
I said it before, that video is fucking garbage. I like the part where he says, "The spell is instant if you cast it right next to the infestor". No shit, and if you cast it on my stalkers when they are right next to your infestor, they will have already killed your infestor.
When have we ever seen unstimmed marines walking slowly toward a blob of infestors? When have we ever seen unstimmed marines vs a blob of infestors, ever. I need to see it used by professional players in real games when they are doing other things or use it myself.
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On December 19 2012 10:14 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:39 avilo wrote:
So, what does Terran have to look forward to now in this expansion? The only buffs Terran ever got were just nerfed.
The only new unit Terran got (widow mine) now made complete trash.
Mech TvP no where near any good.
Raven seeker missile made worse in one patch by taking away splash, making it a shitty yamato cannon, and not listening that the main problem with the raven was accessibility not what the abilities did.
Bring back the warhound please.
edit: and i just watched a video of the new fungal projectile. They buffed fungal...LOL. It is fast enough to be nigh undodgable, and now has +1 range from the WOL fungal lol. You have got to be kidding me. It's just all blowing my mind so hard, I can't believe it. Blizzard is totally fine with the infestor being the counter to EVERYTHING. When ghosts counter zerg units, it's time for a big nerf (making snipe a pure joke). What do infestors get? A buff. I don't see a single reason to refuse to give ravens more starting energy and to give them a SICK huge range. No, what blizzard does is take away the splash damage. The widow mine is just insanely bad. In BW we had mines coming out of a unit, and those mines could do GAME CHANGING damage. Now we got a 2 supply mine that we have to build out of our factory, and that can't even kill a stalker. How many days did the +1 +1 on armory for both mech and air stay? 2 days? 3 days? It's so sad to be a terran these days  ...
I agree with your consensus. Playing Random in WoL is made extremely difficult when the random rolls Terran and have to deal with Zerg of equal skill level. I thought the infestor nerf would finally put an end to the 'Spam F and watch units die' scenario in Hots. But i guess now it's no longer the case. I understand the change was to prevent ZvZ from falling into mass muta play, but with fungal now having an equivalent siege range and almost instant cast makes it a very attractive option. The test maps have shown the new fungal is possibly better than the old, since the projectile speed is now extremely fast and not many of us, including the pros have the reaction to dodge that from 10 range (11 from radius). If ZvZ was such a problem, couldn't they just increase the damage of fungal and keep everything else the same? That would mean players with mutalisks would be less inclined to constantly harass their Z opponents opt for ground comps to better deal with infestors.
This kneejerk reaction from David Kim tells us he has limited understanding in his decisions, especially in cases involving buffs that can break certain matchups. 'Fixing ZvZ' as we have seen here will probably result in mass infestor use (again) in all matchups, since now it's another low risk high reward ability added to an arsenal that does not require it and because of this, discourages Zerg from experimenting with new units, since infestors once again prove to be the strongest (now siege strong) jack of all trades.
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I hope 10 range Fungal is a joke. 10 range super fast projectile might be better than the old 9 range instant-cast.
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widowmine hits air....kills mutas....mutas get speed +regen bonus...mutas too good at zvz....infestor buffed as bandaid solution. even if blanced breaks matchups into boring turtles.
My feelings so far. ofc I haven't tested and will be happy to try it out in beta and give feedback as davie says its just a test.
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So the "heavily" nerfed infestor for HotS includes a 10 ranged infestor ? What the fuck I hope it's a xmas joke
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So many tears in this thread. I just wanna play! When is this bitch gonna go back up!?! I wanna kill me some infestors.
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On December 19 2012 10:34 Novacute wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 10:14 Snowbear wrote:On December 19 2012 09:39 avilo wrote:
So, what does Terran have to look forward to now in this expansion? The only buffs Terran ever got were just nerfed.
The only new unit Terran got (widow mine) now made complete trash.
Mech TvP no where near any good.
Raven seeker missile made worse in one patch by taking away splash, making it a shitty yamato cannon, and not listening that the main problem with the raven was accessibility not what the abilities did.
Bring back the warhound please.
edit: and i just watched a video of the new fungal projectile. They buffed fungal...LOL. It is fast enough to be nigh undodgable, and now has +1 range from the WOL fungal lol. You have got to be kidding me. It's just all blowing my mind so hard, I can't believe it. Blizzard is totally fine with the infestor being the counter to EVERYTHING. When ghosts counter zerg units, it's time for a big nerf (making snipe a pure joke). What do infestors get? A buff. I don't see a single reason to refuse to give ravens more starting energy and to give them a SICK huge range. No, what blizzard does is take away the splash damage. The widow mine is just insanely bad. In BW we had mines coming out of a unit, and those mines could do GAME CHANGING damage. Now we got a 2 supply mine that we have to build out of our factory, and that can't even kill a stalker. How many days did the +1 +1 on armory for both mech and air stay? 2 days? 3 days? It's so sad to be a terran these days ... I agree with your consensus. Playing Random in WoL is made extremely difficult when the random rolls Terran and have to deal with Zerg of equal skill level. I thought the infestor nerf would finally put an end to the 'Spam F and watch units die' scenario in Hots. But i guess now it's no longer the case. I understand the change was to prevent ZvZ from falling into mass muta play, but with fungal now having an equivalent siege range and almost instant cast makes it a very attractive option. The test maps have shown the new fungal is possibly better than the old, since the projectile speed is now extremely fast and not many of us, including the pros have the reaction to dodge that from 10 range (11 from radius). If ZvZ was such a problem, couldn't they just increase the damage of fungal and keep everything else the same? That would mean players with mutalisks would be less inclined to constantly harass their Z opponents opt for ground comps to better deal with infestors. This kneejerk reaction from David Kim tells us he has limited understanding in his decisions, especially in cases involving buffs that can break certain matchups. 'Fixing ZvZ' as we have seen here will probably result in mass infestor use (again) in all matchups, since now it's another low risk high reward ability added to an arsenal that does not require it and because of this, discourages Zerg from experimenting with new units, since infestors once again prove to be the strongest (now siege strong) jack of all trades.
12 range from radius actually.
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Sometimes I wonder if there is a single person that actually thinks about the changes and how they apply to the game before they cry in their posts. While the range was increased to 10, it is still a Projectile. It is not instant. I'd take range 8 and instant over this any day.
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On December 19 2012 10:46 ClanRH.TV wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if there is a single person that actually thinks about the changes and how they apply to the game before they cry in their posts. While the range was increased to 10, it is still a Projectile. It is not instant. I'd take range 8 and instant over this any day.
thats because 8 range instant is absolutely skill less
range 10 with projectile is harder to use because you have to be better then just F spam. someone with some actual skill is going to rape with this. Pro's are not going to like this (except patchzerg)
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On December 19 2012 10:46 ClanRH.TV wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if there is a single person that actually thinks about the changes and how they apply to the game before they cry in their posts. While the range was increased to 10, it is still a Projectile. It is not instant. I'd take range 8 and instant over this any day.
i take an underpowered infestor over a slightly too strong infestor any day.
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I love people whining, as if they have ever tried to balance a game. Chill out people we haven't even got to test it yet. With the rate patches are coming now and the game still having until March to come out, there is no telling what the game will be like by then.
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widow mine nerf is fine. blink nerf makes sense to me given the early high ground vision from the mothership core, though i don't know if that's precisely what they were trying to address. caduceus reactor was absurd so good move, dunno if it'll be enough.
i'm kind of torn on the fungal buff. yeah it was nerfed too much before, but i almost wish they'd increase the root time or the DPS instead of this... fungal was actually starting to become fun to watch. i'd rather they design it to punish getting caught by it somehow rather than make it easier to get caught. but maybe they think it'll function too much like storm in that case? i dunno.
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I mean you people DO realize that 10 range with the travel time is still much much worse than 9 range instant, right? Or do you actually think it's a significant buff that will make infestors god mode in HOTS or something?
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Terran: I've felt that Widow Mines were too powerful for a rather cheap unit that is Reactor produced, so props to this. The Caduceus Reactor nerf is just weird, I think Blizzard is intending to encourage BC usage or something, but the bigger problem is how powerful the upgrade is in the early game, but I think they have the right idea to force it to be a late-game upgrade.
Protoss: At least Blink all-ins versus Terran will be reduced, and it creates more diversity in the match-up.
Zerg: Okay, this is just weird. Blizzard spends all this time collecting community feedback on how Infestors were too strong, and now they decide to buff them again? Ten range and increased projectile speed? Seriously, Infestors are fine as they are, and if the issue is with ZvZ Mutas, maybe increase the speed of the projectile at most, but 10 range is insane.
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so mines blow now
Hows that new speed?
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On December 19 2012 10:55 hunts wrote:
I mean you people DO realize that 10 range with the travel time is still much much worse than 9 range instant, right? Or do you actually think it's a significant buff that will make infestors god mode in HOTS or something?
It's still stupid. It's probably going to make infestors dominant in zvz again. I hope I am wrong, but range 10 and projectile is really good and I wish they would just put it back to range 8 with slow projectile. Fuck infestors buff other things.
This patch is again stupid widow mine should just not hit air and be 1 supply and try that then buff/nerf if necessary and infestors try range 9 with projectile before buffing BOTH. Or just make sure it's useless and zerg doesn't have to make them anyway that would be the best -_-.
Just saw this video:
http://www.twitch.tv/someone2knoe/b/349220437
It's now going to be really, really good again and will be the backbone of all zergs army it will be the strongest.
Might wait till this gets nerfed again before playing again because now zvz is infestor dominated again as infestors are now insanely good again.
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On December 19 2012 10:56 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Terran: I've felt that Widow Mines were too powerful for a rather cheap unit that is Reactor produced, so props to this. The Caduceus Reactor nerf is just weird, I think Blizzard is intending to encourage BC usage or something, but the bigger problem is how powerful the upgrade is in the early game, but I think they have the right idea to force it to be a late-game upgrade.
Protoss: At least Blink all-ins versus Terran will be reduced, and it creates more diversity in the match-up.
Zerg: Okay, this is just weird. Blizzard spends all this time collecting community feedback on how Infestors were too strong, and now they decide to buff them again? Ten range and increased projectile speed? Seriously, Infestors are fine as they are, and if the issue is with ZvZ Mutas, maybe increase the speed of the projectile at most, but 10 range is insane.
How is it ok that the only unit terran gets beside the hellion transformation is a 2 supply widow mine that is more than 4 times as expensive and does significantly less splash damage than the spider mine in BW ???
At the very very least they should make it 125 SPLASH. To compensate for this they can decrease the its range and ability to hit air. At 0.5 or 1 supply it could actually be useful even in the lategame.
In BW a tank + a spider mine was 2 supply. In Sc2 it is 5 supply. No wonder that mech sucks ...
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On December 19 2012 10:10 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 10:08 Havik_ wrote:
Did they say WHY they're nerfing Blink and buffing Fungal? Is Protoss OP in HoTS? I don't have the beta. The Blink nerf is because there are some seriously powerful all-ins with Blink Staker + Mothership Core. In WoL you would need an Observer for high ground vision which delays and weakens the push. Sensible change.
Alright then, that makes sense. Thanks. But why buff Fungal after it got nerfed in WoL?
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On December 19 2012 10:57 blade55555 wrote:Just saw this video: http://www.twitch.tv/someone2knoe/b/349220437It's now going to be really, really good again and will be the backbone of all zergs army it will be the strongest. Might wait till this gets nerfed again before playing again because now zvz is infestor dominated again as infestors are now insanely good again.
Hyperbole much?
The marines in that video aren't even being microed.
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On December 19 2012 11:09 Crawdad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 10:57 blade55555 wrote:Just saw this video: http://www.twitch.tv/someone2knoe/b/349220437It's now going to be really, really good again and will be the backbone of all zergs army it will be the strongest. Might wait till this gets nerfed again before playing again because now zvz is infestor dominated again as infestors are now insanely good again. Hyperbole much? The marines in that video aren't even being microed.
The point is look at how fast that projectile is. It's still stupid,l I know other zergs may love making only infestors but most other players and me to think it's dumb.
It's seriously going to be really good now and easily just as good as pre-nerf infestors.
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EPT
