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On December 19 2012 09:46 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:33 Fjodorov wrote:On December 19 2012 09:20 Bagi wrote:On December 19 2012 09:19 Ecailles wrote:On December 19 2012 09:17 wildstyle1337 wrote:On December 19 2012 06:20 BeyondCtrL wrote:On December 19 2012 06:18 Archas wrote:
Were Infestors really so neutered by the previous Fungal Growth change that Blizzard needed to boost the range and missile speed this much?
Serious question, by the way. Range 10 is just stupid. And a warm welcome back for mass Infestor play... it is projectile so oponent have more time to avoid fungal... ESPECIALLY if they do it from a farther distance which they see it coming and can dodge, I dont know why this is so hard to understand especially after mods and david kim gave replies http://en.twitch.tv/someone2knoe/b/349220437Do you see players reacting to and dodging that? I certainly don't. ouch the fungal speed is faster than i thought. Chainfungal from 10 range ;/ That was a pretty terrible test. I have never seen fungle used on unstimmed marines that are walking slowly toward the infestor. But creator did confirm that when a projectile spell is cast right next to the unit that casts it, it is like the spell is instant... I do agree with people it seems a little fast, but Blizzard is doing balance patches weekly. I feel pretty safe is saying they will slow it down. When are the servers up, damn it. I want to be terrible to do really bad builds while my girlfriend is out and I have time to play.
I'm waiting for a comment from Blizzard, "We've been pretty hasty with the balance changes for the past couple of weeks, but we're going to let things settle for a bit to see the meta game develop. We feel this is a good place to slow down."
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On December 19 2012 09:47 one-one-one wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:44 avilo wrote:On December 19 2012 09:39 Rainling wrote:
I like these changes- range 10 fungal projectile is still much worse than range 9 fungal instant cast, and the projectile speed did seem a little slow. Hopefully infestors will still be viable in small numbers, but not worth massing often with this change. I still wish they made fungal a slow instead of a root, but this seems like an improvement, because infestors were not very useful in the previous patch.
Caduceus reactor was a bit op, so I'm glad they increased the research requirements to make it a late game ability. Widow mine was probably too strong, but I don't see why it needs to hit air units. Blink seemed too strong with msc, so I agree with the blink research time reduction.
All of these changes seem like improvements to me. I don't know why everyone is complaining about the new fungal, it's still much worse than the old fungal. Additionally, the potential to micro out of the fungal before it lands it has been introduced, which is definitely a gameplay improvement. It's mind boggling that after 1 week of the ONLY Terran buffs/changes in a good 2 years, after 1 week, they are immediately nerfed reverted changed. But after almost a year of infestor non-sense, viewership going down because viewers getting tired of ZvZ finals and infestors filling up the screen...they buff the infestor after only 1 week of it being nerfed. Something is very wrong here. Dude. In the Bnet thread David Kim was talking about how "fun" the infestor buff was when testing it internally. I think he should stop doing that and do something about TvP mech until he can have "fun" with that too.
Next on the agenda is making more types of Dustinable Rocks, don't get your hopes up. Maybe we can buff TvP mech by increasing rock armor by 2?
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Mods making a point is fine, as long as they do it in the thread in a post. Mods fucking editing the OP to push their opinions ahead of anyone else? Not cool. Especially when they claim people like David Kim agree with them while we have stream evidence that things are absolutely not what the mod insists they are.
Making a little "mod abuse" joke at the start of the spiel and then going on to commit it twice, to the point where the OP's initial nature (purely factual with a small opinion paragraph) is lost in the mod self-fellating over how Blizzard are with him in completely ignoring the evidence in front of their eyes, is gorram stupid.
On-topic: fungal now becomes the ultimate stalling tool while on creep with the vision to predict army movements, meaning that infestor/broodlord turtlefests until you have enough bank to remax on whatever kills your opponent fastest in a 400/200 fight will almost certainly be back in force; meanwhile Terrans continue to be the high-risk, no-reward race with all our decent beta units either removed because balancing them was too hard, or nerfed into the ground; and Protoss (laughably) are the closest thing to balanced right now.
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On December 19 2012 09:49 BeyondCtrL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:47 one-one-one wrote:On December 19 2012 09:44 avilo wrote:On December 19 2012 09:39 Rainling wrote:
I like these changes- range 10 fungal projectile is still much worse than range 9 fungal instant cast, and the projectile speed did seem a little slow. Hopefully infestors will still be viable in small numbers, but not worth massing often with this change. I still wish they made fungal a slow instead of a root, but this seems like an improvement, because infestors were not very useful in the previous patch.
Caduceus reactor was a bit op, so I'm glad they increased the research requirements to make it a late game ability. Widow mine was probably too strong, but I don't see why it needs to hit air units. Blink seemed too strong with msc, so I agree with the blink research time reduction.
All of these changes seem like improvements to me. I don't know why everyone is complaining about the new fungal, it's still much worse than the old fungal. Additionally, the potential to micro out of the fungal before it lands it has been introduced, which is definitely a gameplay improvement. It's mind boggling that after 1 week of the ONLY Terran buffs/changes in a good 2 years, after 1 week, they are immediately nerfed reverted changed. But after almost a year of infestor non-sense, viewership going down because viewers getting tired of ZvZ finals and infestors filling up the screen...they buff the infestor after only 1 week of it being nerfed. Something is very wrong here. Dude. In the Bnet thread David Kim was talking about how "fun" the infestor buff was when testing it internally. I think he should stop doing that and do something about TvP mech until he can have "fun" with that too. Next on the agenda is making more types of Dustinable Rocks, don't get your hopes up. Maybe we can buff TvP mech by increasing rock armor by 2?
Give tanks more damage againts rocks and other neutral objects like the Scantipede.
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On December 19 2012 09:49 BeyondCtrL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:47 one-one-one wrote:On December 19 2012 09:44 avilo wrote:On December 19 2012 09:39 Rainling wrote:
I like these changes- range 10 fungal projectile is still much worse than range 9 fungal instant cast, and the projectile speed did seem a little slow. Hopefully infestors will still be viable in small numbers, but not worth massing often with this change. I still wish they made fungal a slow instead of a root, but this seems like an improvement, because infestors were not very useful in the previous patch.
Caduceus reactor was a bit op, so I'm glad they increased the research requirements to make it a late game ability. Widow mine was probably too strong, but I don't see why it needs to hit air units. Blink seemed too strong with msc, so I agree with the blink research time reduction.
All of these changes seem like improvements to me. I don't know why everyone is complaining about the new fungal, it's still much worse than the old fungal. Additionally, the potential to micro out of the fungal before it lands it has been introduced, which is definitely a gameplay improvement. It's mind boggling that after 1 week of the ONLY Terran buffs/changes in a good 2 years, after 1 week, they are immediately nerfed reverted changed. But after almost a year of infestor non-sense, viewership going down because viewers getting tired of ZvZ finals and infestors filling up the screen...they buff the infestor after only 1 week of it being nerfed. Something is very wrong here. Dude. In the Bnet thread David Kim was talking about how "fun" the infestor buff was when testing it internally. I think he should stop doing that and do something about TvP mech until he can have "fun" with that too. Next on the agenda is making more types of Dustinable Rocks, don't get your hopes up. Maybe we can buff TvP mech by increasing rock armor by 2?
To hell with that:
Siege Tank upgrade: Rock shot. 4 seconds transformation time after which the siege tank fires Dustinable Rock
New terran structure: Dustinable Rock - a force field size structure with 100 HP and 2 armor. Attack priory 21, because all Starcraft units hate rocks.
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Just in case anybody missed this, fungal has always had 2 radius, meaning you can clip units up to 12 range away. That's 1 less range than siege tanks.
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They should just slow down the projectile speed a little more....>_> It's not that big of a deal. They'll take note of it, and change it in the next patch. It's a beta for gods sake.e
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On December 19 2012 09:55 aksfjh wrote:
Just in case anybody missed this, fungal has always had 2 radius, meaning you can clip units up to 12 range away. That's 1 less range than siege tanks.
Nerf the infestor quite heavily.
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On December 19 2012 09:53 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:49 BeyondCtrL wrote:On December 19 2012 09:47 one-one-one wrote:On December 19 2012 09:44 avilo wrote:On December 19 2012 09:39 Rainling wrote:
I like these changes- range 10 fungal projectile is still much worse than range 9 fungal instant cast, and the projectile speed did seem a little slow. Hopefully infestors will still be viable in small numbers, but not worth massing often with this change. I still wish they made fungal a slow instead of a root, but this seems like an improvement, because infestors were not very useful in the previous patch.
Caduceus reactor was a bit op, so I'm glad they increased the research requirements to make it a late game ability. Widow mine was probably too strong, but I don't see why it needs to hit air units. Blink seemed too strong with msc, so I agree with the blink research time reduction.
All of these changes seem like improvements to me. I don't know why everyone is complaining about the new fungal, it's still much worse than the old fungal. Additionally, the potential to micro out of the fungal before it lands it has been introduced, which is definitely a gameplay improvement. It's mind boggling that after 1 week of the ONLY Terran buffs/changes in a good 2 years, after 1 week, they are immediately nerfed reverted changed. But after almost a year of infestor non-sense, viewership going down because viewers getting tired of ZvZ finals and infestors filling up the screen...they buff the infestor after only 1 week of it being nerfed. Something is very wrong here. Dude. In the Bnet thread David Kim was talking about how "fun" the infestor buff was when testing it internally. I think he should stop doing that and do something about TvP mech until he can have "fun" with that too. Next on the agenda is making more types of Dustinable Rocks, don't get your hopes up. Maybe we can buff TvP mech by increasing rock armor by 2? Give tanks more damage againts rocks and other neutral objects like the Scantipede.
Hey, baby steps please. Those changes are way too crazy and impertinent!
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On December 19 2012 09:20 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:19 Ecailles wrote:On December 19 2012 09:17 wildstyle1337 wrote:On December 19 2012 06:20 BeyondCtrL wrote:On December 19 2012 06:18 Archas wrote:
Were Infestors really so neutered by the previous Fungal Growth change that Blizzard needed to boost the range and missile speed this much?
Serious question, by the way. Range 10 is just stupid. And a warm welcome back for mass Infestor play... it is projectile so oponent have more time to avoid fungal... ESPECIALLY if they do it from a farther distance which they see it coming and can dodge, I dont know why this is so hard to understand especially after mods and david kim gave replies http://en.twitch.tv/someone2knoe/b/349220437Do you see players reacting to and dodging that? I certainly don't.
This video is pretty misleading imo. He is demonstrating fungal against a clump of marines that had no micro. It is easy to fungal stationary units no matter how fungal works. I agree that the projectile speed is pretty fast (perhaps too fast), but it is still slow enough that it involves predicting your opponents movements to hit a solid fungal. I haven't been able to test this yet, but I think it will still be fairly difficult to get those money fungals on stimmed bio, mutas, etc, especially at range 8-10.
In terms of fungal being able to hit units outside of site range. That does not matter at all. If you can't see the units it will be difficult to execute this maneuver in the first place, but even if successful, who wants to use a fungal to catch 3 marines?
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On December 19 2012 09:55 aksfjh wrote:
Just in case anybody missed this, fungal has always had 2 radius, meaning you can clip units up to 12 range away. That's 1 less range than siege tanks.
siegefestors
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LoL .. you can thrown fungals from the fog ... i see a new mechanic here, same for the tempest, gain vision and shoot.
hahaha ... this must be a joke.
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On December 19 2012 09:58 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:55 aksfjh wrote:
Just in case anybody missed this, fungal has always had 2 radius, meaning you can clip units up to 12 range away. That's 1 less range than siege tanks. siegefestors
I hope they will revert the IT nerf too and make them launch it from 13 range.
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On December 19 2012 09:58 InVerno wrote:
LoL .. you can thrown fungals from the fog ... i see a new mechanic here, same for the tempest, gain vision and shoot.
hahaha ... this must be a joke.
Not really fog when creep gives vision...
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On December 19 2012 09:56 BeyondCtrL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:53 Breach_hu wrote:On December 19 2012 09:49 BeyondCtrL wrote:On December 19 2012 09:47 one-one-one wrote:On December 19 2012 09:44 avilo wrote:On December 19 2012 09:39 Rainling wrote:
I like these changes- range 10 fungal projectile is still much worse than range 9 fungal instant cast, and the projectile speed did seem a little slow. Hopefully infestors will still be viable in small numbers, but not worth massing often with this change. I still wish they made fungal a slow instead of a root, but this seems like an improvement, because infestors were not very useful in the previous patch.
Caduceus reactor was a bit op, so I'm glad they increased the research requirements to make it a late game ability. Widow mine was probably too strong, but I don't see why it needs to hit air units. Blink seemed too strong with msc, so I agree with the blink research time reduction.
All of these changes seem like improvements to me. I don't know why everyone is complaining about the new fungal, it's still much worse than the old fungal. Additionally, the potential to micro out of the fungal before it lands it has been introduced, which is definitely a gameplay improvement. It's mind boggling that after 1 week of the ONLY Terran buffs/changes in a good 2 years, after 1 week, they are immediately nerfed reverted changed. But after almost a year of infestor non-sense, viewership going down because viewers getting tired of ZvZ finals and infestors filling up the screen...they buff the infestor after only 1 week of it being nerfed. Something is very wrong here. Dude. In the Bnet thread David Kim was talking about how "fun" the infestor buff was when testing it internally. I think he should stop doing that and do something about TvP mech until he can have "fun" with that too. Next on the agenda is making more types of Dustinable Rocks, don't get your hopes up. Maybe we can buff TvP mech by increasing rock armor by 2? Give tanks more damage againts rocks and other neutral objects like the Scantipede. Hey, baby steps please. Those changes are way to crazy and impertinent!
I agree. The solution is probably with destructible rocks somewhere.
On a serious note I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they are spending time tweaking fungal over trying to improve TvP mech. Especially when the whole community hates fungal with passion and most terrans and protosses wants changes to the very stale TvP matchup. And then terran only got a transformed hellion and a "mine" for Hots.
Buffing fungal should be the lowest thing on their list of priorities.
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On December 19 2012 09:57 SecondSandwich wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:20 Bagi wrote:On December 19 2012 09:19 Ecailles wrote:On December 19 2012 09:17 wildstyle1337 wrote:On December 19 2012 06:20 BeyondCtrL wrote:On December 19 2012 06:18 Archas wrote:
Were Infestors really so neutered by the previous Fungal Growth change that Blizzard needed to boost the range and missile speed this much?
Serious question, by the way. Range 10 is just stupid. And a warm welcome back for mass Infestor play... it is projectile so oponent have more time to avoid fungal... ESPECIALLY if they do it from a farther distance which they see it coming and can dodge, I dont know why this is so hard to understand especially after mods and david kim gave replies http://en.twitch.tv/someone2knoe/b/349220437Do you see players reacting to and dodging that? I certainly don't. This video is pretty misleading imo. He is demonstrating fungal against a clump of marines that had no micro. It is easy to fungal stationary units no matter how fungal works. I agree that the projectile speed is pretty fast (perhaps too fast), but it is still slow enough that it involves predicting your opponents movements to hit a solid fungal. I haven't been able to test this yet, but I think it will still be fairly difficult to get those money fungals on stimmed bio, mutas, etc, especially at range 8-10. In terms of fungal being able to hit units outside of site range. That does not matter at all. If you can't see the units it will be difficult to execute this maneuver in the first place, but even if successful, who wants to use a fungal to catch 3 marines?
On creep and with burrowed units you can get huge fungals off before the opponent can even see the infestor. With 10 range and that speen on the projectile i fail to see how it would be difficult to land fungals safely from a long range. I agree that overall the projectile is a nerf to fungal in actual battles but fungals might even be better now for defensive and stalling purposes.
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On December 19 2012 10:00 one-one-one wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:56 BeyondCtrL wrote:On December 19 2012 09:53 Breach_hu wrote:On December 19 2012 09:49 BeyondCtrL wrote:On December 19 2012 09:47 one-one-one wrote:On December 19 2012 09:44 avilo wrote:On December 19 2012 09:39 Rainling wrote:
I like these changes- range 10 fungal projectile is still much worse than range 9 fungal instant cast, and the projectile speed did seem a little slow. Hopefully infestors will still be viable in small numbers, but not worth massing often with this change. I still wish they made fungal a slow instead of a root, but this seems like an improvement, because infestors were not very useful in the previous patch.
Caduceus reactor was a bit op, so I'm glad they increased the research requirements to make it a late game ability. Widow mine was probably too strong, but I don't see why it needs to hit air units. Blink seemed too strong with msc, so I agree with the blink research time reduction.
All of these changes seem like improvements to me. I don't know why everyone is complaining about the new fungal, it's still much worse than the old fungal. Additionally, the potential to micro out of the fungal before it lands it has been introduced, which is definitely a gameplay improvement. It's mind boggling that after 1 week of the ONLY Terran buffs/changes in a good 2 years, after 1 week, they are immediately nerfed reverted changed. But after almost a year of infestor non-sense, viewership going down because viewers getting tired of ZvZ finals and infestors filling up the screen...they buff the infestor after only 1 week of it being nerfed. Something is very wrong here. Dude. In the Bnet thread David Kim was talking about how "fun" the infestor buff was when testing it internally. I think he should stop doing that and do something about TvP mech until he can have "fun" with that too. Next on the agenda is making more types of Dustinable Rocks, don't get your hopes up. Maybe we can buff TvP mech by increasing rock armor by 2? Give tanks more damage againts rocks and other neutral objects like the Scantipede. Hey, baby steps please. Those changes are way to crazy and impertinent! I agree. The solution is probably with destructible rocks somewhere. On a serious note I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they are spending time tweaking fungal over trying to improve TvP mech. Especially when the whole community hates fungal with passion and most terrans and protosses wants changes to the very stale TvP matchup. And then terran only got a transformed hellion and a "mine" for Hots. Buffing fungal should be the lowest thing on their list of priorities.
And they are even nerfing the only thing which could do any good in TvP mech.
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Did they say WHY they're nerfing Blink and buffing Fungal? Is Protoss OP in HoTS? I don't have the beta.
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On December 19 2012 10:08 Havik_ wrote:
Did they say WHY they're nerfing Blink and buffing Fungal? Is Protoss OP in HoTS? I don't have the beta.
saw some ppl mention early blink builds being to powerful in PvP and PvT
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On December 19 2012 10:08 Havik_ wrote:
Did they say WHY they're nerfing Blink and buffing Fungal? Is Protoss OP in HoTS? I don't have the beta.
It is, but not because Blink. They are nerfing it because 4gate blinkstalker was just too OP with the MSC.
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EPT
