The only thing we really need is a slightly bigger collision size for most units. Pathing is fine.
200/200 army should cover a lot of surface, so a smaller army (i.e. An opponent who's behind in supply) with superior micro can still engage the weakest side gaining an advantage, while a clash between two equivalent armies can last longer than usual because not every unit is in range. It is a lot more viewer friendly too.

What happens now is... 200 marines that in half a second comes simultaneously to 5 range. How cool.

Adersick

United States216 Posts

October 25 2012 03:15 GMT

#42

I feel a bit conflicted, I like the idea of breaking up death-balls, but I fear this isn't the way to do it. Browder brings up very legitimate points, and I know the Blizz team is seriously trying to ensure that we can have a larger element of micro that can split up the action outside of the generic death-ball, but from what I've seen and read this doesn't have enough impact.

I'm going to side with DB on this one, there's a lot of ground to cover as far as things we want in HotS, and this anti-blob movement doesn't seem to have a great effect compared to some of the alternatives (such as finishing up new unit balance and moving on to WoL unit balance with the new units in mind, or the ungodly amount of new UI/replay features we've been asking for).

In summary though, I'm glad the beta testers are leaving no stone un-turned (I hope to join them soon if I get a key), and I'm glad the Blizz team is willing to listen to community/pro advice, as well as take actual steps (such as removing the old Warhound/re-adding the Carrier). I feel a cautious optimism for the future.

Zombo Joe

Canada850 Posts

October 25 2012 03:21 GMT

#43

On October 25 2012 11:53 Alex1Sun wrote:

Show nested quote +

Ok, I agree. Sorry. I'm having a crazy day today

I should've thought a bit more before posting

On topic: You would still need stronger AOE to compensate then. So that's quite a bit of rebalancing.

Stronger AOE coupled with more spread out armies means players can finally afford to leave units behind for defense, instead of having to bring every single unit they have to the 200/200 engagement or lose.

quistador

United States43 Posts

October 25 2012 03:25 GMT

#44

On October 25 2012 12:15 Adersick wrote:
I'm going to side with DB on this one, there's a lot of ground to cover as far as things we want in HotS, and this anti-blob movement doesn't seem to have a great effect compared to some of the alternatives

With what testing? There are a couple posted games with Modified Movement used, but remember how long the game was out before players started splitting vs banes? They used to just target fire banes, now they split and target. This change brings more tactical possibilities due to longer battles through more accurate microing.

I only think a slight radius buff is necessary to aoe. .5 to all aoe accross the board. The numbers are already balanced around how many shots it takes to kill base units.

EDIT: Banking on the HOPE that fungle is changed.

Rabiator

Germany3948 Posts

October 25 2012 05:42 GMT

#45

On October 24 2012 22:42 MateShade wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think a big issue though is that Zerg and Protoss rarely have to split their units, it would be nice if there were some things implemented in the game so that marines weren't the only units you could maximize surface area with

The problem isnt that Marines have to split, but that there has been a change of micro from BW to SC2.

- In BW you had to micro as the ATTACKER. (Mutas, Carrier, Dark Swarm+units, BC+Defensive Matrix from Science vessel)
- In SC2 you have to micro as the DEFENDER. (X vs. Banelings)

This is a terrible shift and one of the really bad changes. To give Terrans a way to "force micro" they could simply increase the trigger range for the Seeker Missile from "I have to be in range for you to shoot me down" to something longer. Since the missile is rather expensive, has only a slow speed and only has a limited lifespan it isnt so bad if you trigger it from further away. Opponents can micro against this.

Personally I dont think that changes to units - like Blizzard intends to only look at - will cut it. I needs more drastic changes to the general mechanics (unit selection, unit movement, production/economy speed boosts) to make it more appealing to casuals like me, because I get overwhelmed by the amount of units AND I like defensive playstyle much more than a general "big army [which is useless without fast control] vs. another big army" style which is currently the only successful one.

Antylamon

United States1981 Posts

October 25 2012 06:32 GMT

#46

On October 25 2012 14:42 Rabiator wrote:

Show nested quote +

Personally I dont think that changes to units - like Blizzard intends to only look at - will cut it. I needs more drastic changes to the general mechanics (unit selection, unit movement, production/economy speed boosts) to make it more appealing to casuals like me, because I get overwhelmed by the amount of units AND I like defensive playstyle much more than a general "big army [which is useless without fast control] vs. another big army" style which is currently the only successful one.

Why not try mech? There are people who have made it work in every matchup. A big plus is that it's much less about micro than any other defending strategy and more about positioning and planning.

Yoshi Kirishima

United States10366 Posts

October 25 2012 07:15 GMT

#47

On October 25 2012 15:32 Antylamon wrote:

Show nested quote +

Why not try mech? There are people who have made it work in every matchup. A big plus is that it's much less about micro than any other defending strategy and more about positioning and planning.

Agreed, but disagree with the latter -- yes there is generally less micro during a fight, but good micro will still significantly improve your army's power. You'll still have to micro/stack/split Vikings, target fire with tanks, cut/split with hellions, EMP immortals/HT/etc., etc. etc. The splitting up of MMM is ideally done before a fight, similar to how you already position and siege up your tanks before a fight, so really the only thing you are missing (though this is a big one) is kiting/splitting your MMM ball during a battle.

MrHavix

United States53 Posts

October 25 2012 11:59 GMT

#48

Dustin and the high level players agreeing with him are correct - I've done the mod as well many times and there is no difference in gameplay. The big reason is because you can select all your units and give them the same exact command to one exact location. In Brood War, there was no way to be absolutely precise, both from your selection of units and where their movement path began, and the point at which you ordered them to. It is a function of the number of units we can select now, NOT THE CODE. Lay off Dustin, jesus.

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