|
On October 25 2012 01:54 gedatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 23:30 joeschmo wrote:On October 24 2012 23:12 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:On October 24 2012 22:59 love.less wrote:
hes right 100%. what is this thread, where you call "shift click stalker blink" awesome, actually about? The shift click stalker blinking (to a single spot on the map to get to a very tight position) would not work if they changed the movement code. Regardless if you don't like this or not, players should know how to fucking split their units. I'm all for engine improvements and not holding people back ridiculously (MBS arguments were fucking inane from closed minded folk) but this is madness. You mean, Terran should know how to split the bioball? And Zerg should split the Broodlord/infestor deathball versus a Vortex? Because that's all the splitting that actually happens. It's the only splitting that happens, but that doesn't mean it's the only splitting that can and should happen.
That is the only splitting we talk about. I break up my stalkers all the time, to get a better spread and more DPS. People spread out their units all the time for any number of reasons.
The other issue that people don't talk about is that sometimes you want your units to clump. In the Blizzard response, they point that out and that changing the current system may make it much harder to get your units into a tight space.
|
The entire game revolves around how the units clump.
Not to mention micro'ing against splash is a skill. So, good for Blizzard. No need to make it more easy for people who can't micro.
|
On October 25 2012 03:51 PauseBreak wrote:
The entire game revolves around how the units clump.
Not to mention micro'ing against splash is a skill. So, good for Blizzard. No need to make it more easy for people who can't micro.
yeah...that's it...Units clump so much almost all micro you do is undone as soon as they move a little bit. It's stupid and makes AOE too good. The movement being how it was in BW sure as hell didnt make people worry about not having enough micro, well designed units took care of that. Blizzard missing the point again, almost seemingly on purpose to support their own mistakes.
|
|
|
On October 25 2012 04:55 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 03:51 PauseBreak wrote:
The entire game revolves around how the units clump.
Not to mention micro'ing against splash is a skill. So, good for Blizzard. No need to make it more easy for people who can't micro. yeah...that's it...Units clump so much almost all micro you do is undone as soon as they move a little bit. It's stupid and makes AOE too good. The movement being how it was in BW sure as hell didnt make people worry about not having enough micro, well designed units took care of that. Blizzard missing the point again, almost seemingly on purpose to support their own mistakes.
Are you kidding? I had to spend so much time trying to make my drunken Marines do what I want them to do. They were always stupid when it came to navigating a thin choke, too.
Also, BW had autocast, meaning you had to pay less attention on movement compared to SC2, but a whole damn lot more focus on casting spells to prevent all of your HTs from depleting their energy on a cloaked Wraith.
|
Wow that thread made my brain hurt. I feel so sorry for the blue posters all the time -_-
|
ever played Age of Empires 2 The Conquerors? It is pretty old and did not have unlimited unit selection (and you had to individually click on buildings to produce stuff, as multiple building selection only allowed to produce from the first selected building), but it had unit formations. You could use a clumped up line-formation for standard battles, split formation (into two equal groups) for flanking, spread out formation to prevent splash damage, and a formation where your precious units (like monks/siege units) would walk in the middle and your other units would form a circle around them to prevent runbys into your precious yet fragile units (i didn't use this quite as much).
Did it decrease the skill ceiling? No, it did not, as you still had to pick the right formation at the right time, and still micro each unit individually. Instead, it added to the game, as it allowed you to focus on individual micro in battles, not just overall micro (dodging heavy attacks, arrows, focusing units, flanking and what not). It sure had its flaws sometimes, but overall it made the game way better, and did not take away skill, but rather opened up for skill to take place instead of chores.
Would like to see something like that added to SC2 as well =)
|
On October 25 2012 05:22 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 04:55 Serpico wrote:On October 25 2012 03:51 PauseBreak wrote:
The entire game revolves around how the units clump.
Not to mention micro'ing against splash is a skill. So, good for Blizzard. No need to make it more easy for people who can't micro. yeah...that's it...Units clump so much almost all micro you do is undone as soon as they move a little bit. It's stupid and makes AOE too good. The movement being how it was in BW sure as hell didnt make people worry about not having enough micro, well designed units took care of that. Blizzard missing the point again, almost seemingly on purpose to support their own mistakes. Are you kidding? I had to spend so much time trying to make my drunken Marines do what I want them to do. They were always stupid when it came to navigating a thin choke, too. Also, BW had autocast, meaning you had to pay less attention on movement compared to SC2, but a whole damn lot more
Having to do more work isn't always better. SC 2 movement is moronic and ruins all spreading you do almost instantly when you move your army. It's beyond tedious, it's asinine to clump that much. There have been huge posts pointing this out for a reason, it isn't fun or good from a spectator's point of view.
|
On October 24 2012 23:07 hotsuma wrote:
It's sad, but the game is dying bit by bit.
I dont know about blizzard mind set when changing stuff, sometimes I think that they have no idea about nothing.
Its not getting more popular, but it still has a pretty large fanbase considering that it hasn't released an expansion yet to fill the gap of players who bought the game at release and then left for any number of reasons.
|
On October 25 2012 03:51 PauseBreak wrote:
The entire game revolves around how the units clump.
Not to mention micro'ing against splash is a skill. So, good for Blizzard. No need to make it more easy for people who can't micro.
so brood war micro is easy? lmao -_-
|
I'm the OP of that thread, but I'm not in the beta. I posted it before they locked the forum, but I still haven't recieved an invite to the beta.
I think people aren't seeing the entire side of what this change could mean for pro play, esports, and their own laddering if this change is implemented. I'm sorry, but it's been nearly 3 years, and pro unit micro during battles is not anywhere near as watchable as BW, neither has it changed much. I'm sure many people are fans of the straight-forward style of unit clumping and what it means for battles. It's inevitable, it's fast, and easy to a-move. The benefits in small, twitchy micro movements are minimilized by how quickly unit formation clumps, both players knowing how units move (because it's so predictable), no matter how fast he/she micros, neither will see the huge benefit from micromanagement you got in BW.
An example is day9's baseballs and frisbees. The pacing of the game is simply too fast with the speed at which units clump for you to see a greater return from superior unit micro.
For those thinking I'm ignoring things like bane, rine splitting. I understand the return, I simply don't think it's all there is to get out of this game.
There is more there. If you cannot see how this is a buff to players with superior micro, then IMO you have little imagination. This change, once tinkered with on a pro level, means battles become even more situational as you will have to conisder your opponents unit formation before engaging, flanking becomes more effective, minute micro will mean more return when performed correctly.
I'm sorry, this all seems so obvious to me. Dustin Browder is Platinum. I take his internal testing of this with a grain of salt. Unit stats are one thing, I can trust bliz with that... a bit... but this is something entirely different.
|
I seriously hope this whole "modified movement" thing is just some stupid fad that is going to die out soon.
|
On October 25 2012 11:04 Robotix wrote:
I seriously hope this whole "modified movement" thing is just some stupid fad that is going to die out soon.
Nah. It's been around since Beta. It's here to stay until Blizzard does something.
|
I have to agree with Dustin.
I am not sure that changing unit clumping would remove death balls. If anything, it may make death balls stronger, because units in a death ball would automatically pre-split and suffer less damage from AOE.
I believe a proper change against death balls should incorporate stronger positional space-control units and stronger AOE or a combination of these changes with modified unit movement. For reasoning please have a look at this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373484
|
On October 25 2012 10:38 quistador wrote:
An example is day9's baseballs and frisbees. The pacing of the game is simply too fast with the speed at which units clumps for you to see a greater return from superior unit micro.
This is a really important point. Yes Dunstin we can split things now but everything just re-clumps again so quickly...
Keep the pressure up (with good arguments) on the beta forums guys! 
|
On October 25 2012 11:37 Aetherial wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 10:38 quistador wrote:
An example is day9's baseballs and frisbees. The pacing of the game is simply too fast with the speed at which units clumps for you to see a greater return from superior unit micro.
This is a really important point. Yes Dunstin we can split things now but everything just re-clumps again so quickly... Keep the pressure up (with good arguments) on the beta forums guys!
Isn't that good? It adds skill requirement to play against AOE. Or do you want to have automatic pre-split, so that the game has only A-move and nothing else?
|
On October 25 2012 11:43 Alex1Sun wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 11:37 Aetherial wrote:On October 25 2012 10:38 quistador wrote:
An example is day9's baseballs and frisbees. The pacing of the game is simply too fast with the speed at which units clumps for you to see a greater return from superior unit micro.
This is a really important point. Yes Dunstin we can split things now but everything just re-clumps again so quickly... Keep the pressure up (with good arguments) on the beta forums guys! Isn't that good? It adds skill requirement to play against AOE. Or do you want to have automatic pre-split, so that the game has only A-move and nothing else?
I can't believe your the one who created the thread about anti-deathballs -_-;;
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U8JP9.jpg)
They are slightly spaced. Splitting is still required especially with a buff to AOE radius+dmg to compensate.
+ Show Spoiler [This is what it looks like right now] +
|
I'd rather remove a tiny amount of micro needed (a stupid amount needed to stop clumping anyways) in order for the game to not look like glob vs glob.
|
On October 25 2012 11:47 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 11:43 Alex1Sun wrote:On October 25 2012 11:37 Aetherial wrote:On October 25 2012 10:38 quistador wrote:
An example is day9's baseballs and frisbees. The pacing of the game is simply too fast with the speed at which units clumps for you to see a greater return from superior unit micro.
This is a really important point. Yes Dunstin we can split things now but everything just re-clumps again so quickly... Keep the pressure up (with good arguments) on the beta forums guys! Isn't that good? It adds skill requirement to play against AOE. Or do you want to have automatic pre-split, so that the game has only A-move and nothing else? I can't believe your the one who created the thread about anti-deathballs -_-;; They are slightly spaced. Splitting is still required especially with a buff to AOE radius+dmg to compensate. + Show Spoiler [This is what it looks like right now] +
Ok, I agree. Sorry. I'm having a crazy day today I should've thought a bit more before posting 
On topic: You would still need stronger AOE to compensate then. So that's quite a bit of rebalancing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kx6vZ.jpg)
