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On September 21 2012 04:46 mythandier wrote:
Another balance update has just been announced for the HotS Beta that will take place tonight. The incoming changes are below:
Protoss
(..)
Oracle
Entomb’s duration has increased to 30 seconds. The health of Entombed nodes has increased from 100 to 130. The duration of Revelation has increased from 30 to 45 seconds.
(..)
such a dump spell still being buffed.
blizz, please remove it. there must be a decent harras option for protoss.
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On September 21 2012 17:49 klitschKO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 04:46 mythandier wrote:
Another balance update has just been announced for the HotS Beta that will take place tonight. The incoming changes are below:
Protoss
(..)
Oracle
Entomb’s duration has increased to 30 seconds. The health of Entombed nodes has increased from 100 to 130. The duration of Revelation has increased from 30 to 45 seconds.
(..)
such a dump spell still being buffed. blizz, please remove it. there must be a decent harras option for protoss.
There are harass option for Protoss. Void Rays, Warp Prism, Dark Templars, Phoenixes etc. It is just that they want some unique way of harassing and delaying mining without killing workers.
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On September 21 2012 17:14 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 16:02 DaveVAH wrote:
This is a great change (Bio Hellbats), finally mech players can use bunkers now as well.
Mines still cost too much supply.
Fix the raven now and revert the BC ground dmg nerf (it wasn't a bug guys, DK said it was intended..) What the... really? People will never be happy. For 75/25/2 you deal 160 single target and 60 AoE damage? So, with 6 population(3 mines), you can kill about 16 population of Stalkers, and it is too much? Wow...
If you don't agree on that regard go ask every single terran pro. They will tell you the same thing.
Spider mines did similar damage to ground, costed zero supply, didn't cost gas or mins, detected cloaked units and came 3 at the time for the cost of a vulture (75 min). Only difference is that widow mines hit air to help mech early game.
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Thank you blizzard 
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On September 21 2012 18:03 DaveVAH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 17:14 Ramiz1989 wrote:On September 21 2012 16:02 DaveVAH wrote:
This is a great change (Bio Hellbats), finally mech players can use bunkers now as well.
Mines still cost too much supply.
Fix the raven now and revert the BC ground dmg nerf (it wasn't a bug guys, DK said it was intended..) What the... really? People will never be happy. For 75/25/2 you deal 160 single target and 60 AoE damage? So, with 6 population(3 mines), you can kill about 16 population of Stalkers, and it is too much? Wow... If you don't agree on that regard go ask every single terran pro. They will tell you the same thing. Spider mines did similar damage to ground, costed zero supply, didn't cost gas or mins, detected cloaked units and came 3 at the time for the cost of a vulture (75 min). Only difference is that widow mines hit air to help mech early game.
There are plenty of other differences like Raven, Stalkers, Gold minerals, MBS etc... I mean you cant compare an SCII unit to a BW unit all alone it doesnt make sense.
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On September 21 2012 18:03 DaveVAH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 17:14 Ramiz1989 wrote:On September 21 2012 16:02 DaveVAH wrote:
This is a great change (Bio Hellbats), finally mech players can use bunkers now as well.
Mines still cost too much supply.
Fix the raven now and revert the BC ground dmg nerf (it wasn't a bug guys, DK said it was intended..) What the... really? People will never be happy. For 75/25/2 you deal 160 single target and 60 AoE damage? So, with 6 population(3 mines), you can kill about 16 population of Stalkers, and it is too much? Wow... If you don't agree on that regard go ask every single terran pro. They will tell you the same thing. Spider mines did similar damage to ground, costed zero supply, didn't cost gas or mins, detected cloaked units and came 3 at the time for the cost of a vulture (75 min). Only difference is that widow mines hit air to help mech early game.
Why are you constantly comparing Spider Mines with Widow Mines? The SC BW and SC2 are completely different. In SC BW Marines weren't overpowered as fuck, and you didn't need just AOE to be able to deal with them, in SC BW every AoE was actually disgustingly overpowered, the whole game would've been imbalanced as hell in the SC2 AI, unit pathing and behavior, that is actually the only thing that made SC BW balanced and so great to watch, because units were stupid, literally, and you had to be really skillful to use those units properly.
That is why every AoE is nerfed to the ground, because it is so much easier to cast it, and besides that, units clump a lot more in SC2, where in SC BW they don't clump at all. Every single AoE, Siege Tank shot, Colossi compared to Reavers, Psi Storm is doing a lot less, Seeker Missiles compared to Irradiate, Fungal compared to Plague, hell, even Archons got nerfed with their splash attack.
So again, no, Widow Mines won't need to be less supply than this, people will find the way to abuse them, and I am pretty sure that they even can get nerfed, because one Mine can kill like 15 Marines pretty early in the game when you don't have the energy for much scans. Combining Mine's stats with the range of 5, their ability to attack air, and being able to turn off the auto-attack so you can actually target fire with the Mines what you want, make them really deadly units for 75/25/2.
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On September 21 2012 05:22 papaz wrote:
Ughh.. I don't like a bio unit from factory. I know e-sports and all is important but don't kill the feeling of the game. Keep it simple, bio from barracks and mech from factory.
Thats the point. As a non-playing viewer it is important for me. I prefer a BW-firebat, a viking with air-to-ground upgrade and let the Thor be the only Battle-Mech, you know what I mean.
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On September 21 2012 18:19 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 18:03 DaveVAH wrote:On September 21 2012 17:14 Ramiz1989 wrote:On September 21 2012 16:02 DaveVAH wrote:
This is a great change (Bio Hellbats), finally mech players can use bunkers now as well.
Mines still cost too much supply.
Fix the raven now and revert the BC ground dmg nerf (it wasn't a bug guys, DK said it was intended..) What the... really? People will never be happy. For 75/25/2 you deal 160 single target and 60 AoE damage? So, with 6 population(3 mines), you can kill about 16 population of Stalkers, and it is too much? Wow... If you don't agree on that regard go ask every single terran pro. They will tell you the same thing. Spider mines did similar damage to ground, costed zero supply, didn't cost gas or mins, detected cloaked units and came 3 at the time for the cost of a vulture (75 min). Only difference is that widow mines hit air to help mech early game. Why are you constantly comparing Spider Mines with Widow Mines? The SC BW and SC2 are completely different. In SC BW Marines weren't overpowered as fuck, and you didn't need just AOE to be able to deal with them, in SC BW every AoE was actually disgustingly overpowered, the whole game would've been imbalanced as hell in the SC2 AI, unit pathing and behavior, that is actually the only thing that made SC BW balanced and so great to watch, because units were stupid, literally, and you had to be really skillful to use those units properly. That is why every AoE is nerfed to the ground, because it is so much easier to cast it, and besides that, units clump a lot more in SC2, where in SC BW they don't clump at all. Every single AoE, Siege Tank shot, Colossi compared to Reavers, Psi Storm is doing a lot less, Seeker Missiles compared to Irradiate, Fungal compared to Plague, hell, even Archons got nerfed with their splash attack. So again, no, Widow Mines won't need to be less supply than this, people will find the way to abuse them, and I am pretty sure that they even can get nerfed, because one Mine can kill like 15 Marines pretty early in the game when you don't have the energy for much scans. Combining Mine's stats with the range of 5, their ability to attack air, and being able to turn off the auto-attack so you can actually target fire with the Mines what you want, make them really deadly units for 75/25/2.
Mines need to be Nerfed even now? I understand now you are one in a 100 who think widow mines, ravens and even thors are OP. I remember you qqing about 100 energy HSM.
No point arguing with a biased poster when every terran pro can give solid feeback to blizzard. Widow mines @ 2 supply are terrible practically.
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On September 21 2012 17:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 17:49 klitschKO wrote:On September 21 2012 04:46 mythandier wrote:
Another balance update has just been announced for the HotS Beta that will take place tonight. The incoming changes are below:
Protoss
(..)
Oracle
Entomb’s duration has increased to 30 seconds. The health of Entombed nodes has increased from 100 to 130. The duration of Revelation has increased from 30 to 45 seconds.
(..)
such a dump spell still being buffed. blizz, please remove it. there must be a decent harras option for protoss. There are harass option for Protoss. Void Rays, Warp Prism, Dark Templars, Phoenixes etc. It is just that they want some unique way of harassing and delaying mining without killing workers.
We haven't seen a Stargate in PvT for a LONG time. Such a bad tech tree.
It's only about the Prism really.
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On September 21 2012 18:25 DaveVAH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 18:19 Ramiz1989 wrote:On September 21 2012 18:03 DaveVAH wrote:On September 21 2012 17:14 Ramiz1989 wrote:On September 21 2012 16:02 DaveVAH wrote:
This is a great change (Bio Hellbats), finally mech players can use bunkers now as well.
Mines still cost too much supply.
Fix the raven now and revert the BC ground dmg nerf (it wasn't a bug guys, DK said it was intended..) What the... really? People will never be happy. For 75/25/2 you deal 160 single target and 60 AoE damage? So, with 6 population(3 mines), you can kill about 16 population of Stalkers, and it is too much? Wow... If you don't agree on that regard go ask every single terran pro. They will tell you the same thing. Spider mines did similar damage to ground, costed zero supply, didn't cost gas or mins, detected cloaked units and came 3 at the time for the cost of a vulture (75 min). Only difference is that widow mines hit air to help mech early game. Why are you constantly comparing Spider Mines with Widow Mines? The SC BW and SC2 are completely different. In SC BW Marines weren't overpowered as fuck, and you didn't need just AOE to be able to deal with them, in SC BW every AoE was actually disgustingly overpowered, the whole game would've been imbalanced as hell in the SC2 AI, unit pathing and behavior, that is actually the only thing that made SC BW balanced and so great to watch, because units were stupid, literally, and you had to be really skillful to use those units properly. That is why every AoE is nerfed to the ground, because it is so much easier to cast it, and besides that, units clump a lot more in SC2, where in SC BW they don't clump at all. Every single AoE, Siege Tank shot, Colossi compared to Reavers, Psi Storm is doing a lot less, Seeker Missiles compared to Irradiate, Fungal compared to Plague, hell, even Archons got nerfed with their splash attack. So again, no, Widow Mines won't need to be less supply than this, people will find the way to abuse them, and I am pretty sure that they even can get nerfed, because one Mine can kill like 15 Marines pretty early in the game when you don't have the energy for much scans. Combining Mine's stats with the range of 5, their ability to attack air, and being able to turn off the auto-attack so you can actually target fire with the Mines what you want, make them really deadly units for 75/25/2. Mines need to be Nerfed even now? I understand now you are one in a 100 who think widow mines, ravens and even thors are OP. I remember you qqing about 100 energy HSM. No point arguing with a biased poster when every terran pro can give solid feeback to blizzard. Widow mines @ 2 supply are terrible practically.
No, I said they maybe will be nerfed. I didn't say they have to be nerfed, time will tell. I didn't say anything about the Thors, never even commented on them, and I also said that SM might be overpowered with 100 energy because unlike Storm and Fungal, it is instant damage. I am not biased, but you obviously are when you are so blind that can't see how great Widow Mine is with the stat that it currently have, even for 2 supply, you can make like 3-4 and destroy half of opponents army with 8 supply.
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On September 21 2012 17:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 17:49 klitschKO wrote:On September 21 2012 04:46 mythandier wrote:
Another balance update has just been announced for the HotS Beta that will take place tonight. The incoming changes are below:
Protoss
(..)
Oracle
Entomb’s duration has increased to 30 seconds. The health of Entombed nodes has increased from 100 to 130. The duration of Revelation has increased from 30 to 45 seconds.
(..)
such a dump spell still being buffed. blizz, please remove it. there must be a decent harras option for protoss. There are harass option for Protoss. Void Rays, Warp Prism, Dark Templars, Phoenixes etc. It is just that they want some unique way of harassing and delaying mining without killing workers.
i just feel like, entomped destroys the gameflow way too much. no matter which race you are playing.
what i have seen on streams so far is the following:
P entomps a mineral line... victim attacks those "nodes" with all workers. when only 1 node is left, all scvs are attacking the last node. after the nodes are gone the workers are just hanging around.
there will surely come up some mechanics to improve the handling with emtombed.
but what i have seen so far looks just ugly.
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On September 21 2012 18:30 Salteador Neo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 17:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On September 21 2012 17:49 klitschKO wrote:On September 21 2012 04:46 mythandier wrote:
Another balance update has just been announced for the HotS Beta that will take place tonight. The incoming changes are below:
Protoss
(..)
Oracle
Entomb’s duration has increased to 30 seconds. The health of Entombed nodes has increased from 100 to 130. The duration of Revelation has increased from 30 to 45 seconds.
(..)
such a dump spell still being buffed. blizz, please remove it. there must be a decent harras option for protoss. There are harass option for Protoss. Void Rays, Warp Prism, Dark Templars, Phoenixes etc. It is just that they want some unique way of harassing and delaying mining without killing workers. We haven't seen a Stargate in PvT for a LONG time. Such a bad tech tree. It's only about the Prism really.
I've seen Phoenix play in WoL from MC just a month ago I think. Also, this isn't WoL, I think that Stargate will be almost required to be able to deal with mech.
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On September 21 2012 07:00 baba1 wrote:
Yeah exactly, Blizzard doesn't know what they are doing.
Just because Blizzard didn't involve you in the thought process and you are left with too little information about the reasons doesn't man that they don't know what they are doing.
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On September 21 2012 18:38 Ramiz1989 wrote:
I've seen Phoenix play in WoL from MC just a month ago I think. Also, this isn't WoL, I think that Stargate will be almost required to be able to deal with mech.
Hopefully, but I'm just not seeing it yet. Maybe if BH/ST becomes impossible to deal with on the ground, but I still don't know if BHs provide a good enough buffer between tanks and... Immortals *shudder*. We'll have to see how their buff pans out, I'm mostly seeing them used with tanks as they ought to be, so that's good.
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I said this when Entomb was first announced and I stand by this: I will not buy Hots until Entomb is removed or changed. It is a dumb idea and not fun at all to play against. It takes less skill to use then dropping units from transports and it is so f*cking irritating to defend against.
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On September 21 2012 18:03 DaveVAH wrote:
If you don't agree on that regard go ask every single terran pro. They will tell you the same thing.
ROFL, think again. Terran pros were already using Widow mines, and now they're being used in pretty well every MU.
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Would be interesting if entomb would be a bit harder to pull of and more rewarding to defend against. Reflecting its current shields as a barrier onto the Minerals. So if you scratch its shields entomb would be weaker. Because right now any base with airspace near the minerals can be constantly entombed even if there are a few towers ready. And it just costs you a bit of shift clicking commands.
Right now either you have perfect defense or it does its full "damage". Sticking your whole army to the minerals just to clean up faster is also pretty evil. Feels to me like I unload a medivac and kill a few drones despite the army being there full force. With the Marines and Medivac getting out alive of course.
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Can the widow mine be un-burrowed and moved to a new location? Or are you permanently committed once you choose a location? This is another big difference from the spider mines
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On September 21 2012 19:21 imJealous wrote:
Can the widow mine be un-burrowed and moved to a new location? Or are you permanently committed once you choose a location? This is another big difference from the spider mines
It can be repositioned, of course.
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EPT
