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ant-1
Canada149 Posts
But do not hope for such a change that Protoss will return to its former form. We will have to watch as T and Z build up new strategies using their new toys, and adjust to them. Maybe we'll find a way or two to use our new toys too. One all-in or timing attack that can benefit from 'em. In the end, we'll gather and find new ways out of the metagame. Without using Blizzard's new units. But whatever. We'll still survive and manage to win a few championships. | ||
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MasterCynical
505 Posts
Entomb is the worst spell ive every seen blizzard come up with, just fly in and fly out, and you get a virtually riskless free harass, especially considering how fast the oracle is. Whats the counter to this spell? just Amove your units into the temporary buildings. what a boring spell, this is the 0-skill harass. Just imagine all the pros using this spell, how impressed or excited will we be when we see this put to use? i doubt even a caster that is best at generating hype can even make this look entertaing. "OMG, MC just entombed ALL the minerals in EVERY one of Nestea's bases. Hes going to really need to have perfect control on those drones to take them out in time" As for the other 2 spells, its nice that protoss learnt a thing or two from terran = P, i wonder if zerg learns how to scan in LOTV | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
Both the mothership core and the previous oracles were units I wanted to use. I couldn't wait for HoTS to be able to expand early and safely, retreat from pressure, cloak things before 15 minutes into the game and (previously) even do cool stuff like phase out my opponents' spore crawlers to support DT harass. All gone. All of it. Recall and purify are still there, but hugely nerfed. The oracle is hilariously expensive and hilariously useless. None of our actual army units have been supported or adjusted in any way, but now need to face swarm hosts, vipers and significant buffs to both other races' core armies. Oh, and warhounds, which are a category all on their own. It's not about whether toss is UP; that can be fixed. It's about the simple fact that there is nothing coming in this expansion that makes me want to play it, a lot of Z/T things that I'm apprehensive to face, and a whole stack of things that could have been great but were cut. | ||
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RehnFreemark
Italy144 Posts
On September 10 2012 10:18 Reborn8u wrote: It seems like protoss's identity in Sc2 is basically all in, or turtle until maxed and use mass warp ins to tip the battle in your favor. The spell casting has become more of a gimmick to make up for the weaker army, like FF's and Vortex. I honestly think at this point they should just accept protoss as the turtling, timing attack race that it now is. Basically, terran and protoss have swapped identities from BW to WOL. I am fine with that, I say run with it. Give protoss even more turtle power, like terran has bunkers, pf's, lowering supply depots, ect. Then just add in some very strong positional units, similar to how siege tanks and mines function. I think with the state of protoss, the oracle and tempest are bad units for what protoss's role has actually become. The mothership core is pretty much perfect for this, what protoss needs now is things like shield batteries, the ability to reposition pylons, and some non deathball space control units. Immobile units that have to setup, much like a siege tank or swarm host. I agree with this part of what you said, or rather, I wouldn't want this to happen to protoss but if it DID happen at least it would make sense. If the identity of the P race changed into something different, it may not be the playstyle I like but I could accept it as long as the identity (-> strategy, playstyle etc) would make sense. The whole reasoning you make about it makes a lot of sense. The problem is that your reasoning is based on logic. Blizzar'ds isn't. They say they give protoss a harassing unit, but it's the only harassing unit in the game that doesn't kill anything, just "prevents from mining". They say they give us a long range siege unit, and that unit does nearly no damage (for a huge resource cost). Honestly, sometimes I can't tell if the designers behind these concepts are completely dumb, or they are actually trying to make fun of us. The design choices they make have no sense whatsoever, there isn't a logic behind it, and sure as hell there is no real playtest because it's been one year since hots' presentation at blizzcon, and you can't seriously playtest the new units for a year and get to beta in this state. On September 10 2012 13:28 Belisarius wrote: It's not about whether toss is UP; that can be fixed. It's about the simple fact that there is nothing coming in this expansion that makes me want to play it I'd say this sentence sums it up perfectly. I have beta access and I'm not even playing it because frankly there's nothing in there that really makes me want to do it. I'd rather play WoL at this point (and at any rate, playing P in beta right now means ignoring all new untis except maybe for the mothership core, so you might as well stick to WoL) | ||
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Protein
United States132 Posts
On September 10 2012 13:18 MasterCynical wrote: I absolutely hate the oracle, Entomb is the worst spell ive every seen blizzard come up with, just fly in and fly out, and you get a virtually riskless free harass, especially considering how fast the oracle is. Whats the counter to this spell? just Amove your units into the temporary buildings. what a boring spell, this is the 0-skill harass. Just imagine all the pros using this spell, how impressed or excited will we be when we see this put to use? i doubt even a caster that is best at generating hype can even make this look entertaing. "OMG, MC just entombed ALL the minerals in EVERY one of Nestea's bases. Hes going to really need to have perfect control on those drones to take them out in time" As for the other 2 spells, its nice that protoss learnt a thing or two from terran = P, i wonder if zerg learns how to scan in LOTV Have you watched enough streams? With one queen and drones attacking the fields it stops mining for all of 10 seconds. You should hope that your opponent builds oracles instead. | ||
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lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
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Zaurus
Singapore676 Posts
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usethis2
2164 Posts
Please post in one of the existing threads. That's what I've done, though I could have made my own thread easily. Or maybe a mod should consolidate these threads. | ||
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Xerxes Wrath
48 Posts
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Sepheren
United States66 Posts
On September 10 2012 08:59 BeyondCtrL wrote: Read his post before making such remarks. He is not talking about the win rate, he is talking about HOW Protosses win. Practically all Protoss wins come from timing attacks, cheeses, and all-ins. Just because Protoss has decent win rate doesn't mean the race's mechanics aren't broken. Read his post before making such remarks. He explicitly says at the beginning of the post that he is addressing what he thinks is holding protoss back from competing at a high level. Where in that statement, which is the opening for his whole QQing, does it even hint about the way they win? It doesn't. He complains about both. So you're wrong and you should retract or edit your post. | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
http://scdojo.tumblr.com/post/10984263634/pvz-anypros-7-gate-vs-jyps-7-gate As for TvP, I think it's best not to bring it up because everyone in Korea (including every casters who openly state as such and probably most Protoss players) believe that once the game lasts longer than 20 minutes, Terran is done for. We're embarrassing ourselves. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On September 10 2012 13:18 MasterCynical wrote: I absolutely hate the oracle, Entomb is the worst spell ive every seen blizzard come up with, just fly in and fly out, and you get a virtually riskless free harass, especially considering how fast the oracle is. Whats the counter to this spell? just Amove your units into the temporary buildings. what a boring spell, this is the 0-skill harass. Just imagine all the pros using this spell, how impressed or excited will we be when we see this put to use? i doubt even a caster that is best at generating hype can even make this look entertaing. "OMG, MC just entombed ALL the minerals in EVERY one of Nestea's bases. Hes going to really need to have perfect control on those drones to take them out in time" As for the other 2 spells, its nice that protoss learnt a thing or two from terran = P, i wonder if zerg learns how to scan in LOTV The Oracle has 100 HP, 50 of which are in Shields. Place a Missile Turret in a good location, and it dies. This is a 200-gas unit, last I checked. | ||
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Xerxes Wrath
48 Posts
As for TvP, I think it's best not to bring it up because everyone in Korea (including every casters who openly state as such and probably most Protoss players) believe that once the game lasts longer than 20 minutes, Terran is done for. We're embarrassing ourselves. You should watch more pro games, where mass ghost + MMMV stomped Protoss deathball with EMP, Stim and a-move | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
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Meteo Rain
Finland98 Posts
DB: That, or be comfortable with a light amount of damage and say “Look, I am not going to kill you with this but you can’t stay there forever. I am chipping away at you, I am not killing everything but I am beating you pretty good. You have to move away, or engage this tempest or figure something out because you have limited time to do it.” And that’s the other reason why I think it feels different than a standard artillery unit. Because the standard artillery units, like the siege tank, are all like “No, you are dead. You need to move immediately.” The tempest is like “Yeah, he’s working away at my nexus and this is a problem. But it’s not a problem I need to solve in four seconds, it’s a problem I need to solve in 30 seconds, or maybe a minute.” And that creates a different kind of feeling. " Yeah... or he can just repair and stay where the heck he wants. | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
On September 10 2012 14:50 Meteo Rain wrote: Yeah... or he can just repair and stay where the heck he wants. People are upset about repair with tempests, but keep in mind the tempest does burst damage. So it doesn't need to out-DPS repair, because if you have enough to one-shot your target, then it dies before you have a chance to repair. For instance, 2 tempests one-shot workers, making repair or transfuse worthless in this scenario. | ||
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Xerxes Wrath
48 Posts
On September 10 2012 14:54 ChristianS wrote: People are upset about repair with tempests, but keep in mind the tempest does burst damage. So it doesn't need to out-DPS repair, because if you have enough to one-shot your target, then it dies before you have a chance to repair. For instance, 2 tempests one-shot workers, making repair or transfuse worthless in this scenario. 2 tempests 1 shot worker? How useful considering each costs 300/300 and 6 supply | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Well i miss the bw protoss play against zerg, where the zerg has to stop the giant deathball of protoss before they killed all the bases, it was really unique play. But when a purple goo on the ground that gives vision and speed is the best defenders advantage ingame, then you can't do something like this. It is a bit funny though that zerg is currently the high cost deathball that you have to stop before all your bases are gone. I still enjoy protoss though, even if i find the new units for HotS in its currentform useless. (expensive obs and a carrier that specialized on long range giving up everything else becoming the carrier of spoon looking like a reaping hook). But WoL toss is fun to play for me, especially with the shield mechanic. (in addition most protoss players go 3/3/0 and wonder why they are cost inefficient lategame ...) And well if i want the old protoss feeling i play bw :p. The op is being overly dramatic though and doesn't really help his cause by stating wrong informations. | ||
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BeyondCtrL
Sweden642 Posts
On September 10 2012 13:48 Protein wrote: Have you watched enough streams? With one queen and drones attacking the fields it stops mining for all of 10 seconds. You should hope that your opponent builds oracles instead. So, on a fully saturated base that's about 170 minerals if the person reacts instantly. Given reaction times, for pros, I'd say you can deny 200-300 minerals. Pathetic. The amount of times you would have to cast Entomb to even pay for the Oracle is just stupid. If you take a WP and suicide 2 Zealots and manage to kill 3 workers you would deny the same amount of minerals as an Entomb :S | ||
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