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On September 10 2012 14:54 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 14:50 Meteo Rain wrote:
DB: That, or be comfortable with a light amount of damage and say “Look, I am not going to kill you with this but you can’t stay there forever. I am chipping away at you, I am not killing everything but I am beating you pretty good. You have to move away, or engage this tempest or figure something out because you have limited time to do it.” And that’s the other reason why I think it feels different than a standard artillery unit. Because the standard artillery units, like the siege tank, are all like “No, you are dead. You need to move immediately.” The tempest is like “Yeah, he’s working away at my nexus and this is a problem. But it’s not a problem I need to solve in four seconds, it’s a problem I need to solve in 30 seconds, or maybe a minute.” And that creates a different kind of feeling. "
Yeah... or he can just repair and stay where the heck he wants. People are upset about repair with tempests, but keep in mind the tempest does burst damage. So it doesn't need to out-DPS repair, because if you have enough to one-shot your target, then it dies before you have a chance to repair. For instance, 2 tempests one-shot workers, making repair or transfuse worthless in this scenario.
Considering how much of an investment that is, to only be able to one shot a worker, I don't think it's viable at all.
I recently saw a stream where 12 tempest (that is 3600/3600, and 72 supply) tried to kill a command center. They literally did 1/5th of the entire command centers complete health. At which point about 5 scvs could out-repair the damage. As a comparison, 12 tempest does the same DPS as 13!!! marines... That is just silly.
The only use I can see for this unit is chipping away at a late game BL + infestor army, forcing the zerg to engage in an unfavorable position. But thats about it.
As for a late game capital ship, the tempest is a joke of a unit. I would much rather have the carrier in any situation.
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On September 10 2012 15:48 Millet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 14:54 ChristianS wrote:On September 10 2012 14:50 Meteo Rain wrote:
DB: That, or be comfortable with a light amount of damage and say “Look, I am not going to kill you with this but you can’t stay there forever. I am chipping away at you, I am not killing everything but I am beating you pretty good. You have to move away, or engage this tempest or figure something out because you have limited time to do it.” And that’s the other reason why I think it feels different than a standard artillery unit. Because the standard artillery units, like the siege tank, are all like “No, you are dead. You need to move immediately.” The tempest is like “Yeah, he’s working away at my nexus and this is a problem. But it’s not a problem I need to solve in four seconds, it’s a problem I need to solve in 30 seconds, or maybe a minute.” And that creates a different kind of feeling. "
Yeah... or he can just repair and stay where the heck he wants. People are upset about repair with tempests, but keep in mind the tempest does burst damage. So it doesn't need to out-DPS repair, because if you have enough to one-shot your target, then it dies before you have a chance to repair. For instance, 2 tempests one-shot workers, making repair or transfuse worthless in this scenario. Considering how much of an investment that is, to only be able to one shot a worker, I don't think it's viable at all. I recently saw a stream where 12 tempest (that is 3600/3600, and 72 supply) tried to kill a command center. They literally did 1/5th of the entire command centers complete health. At which point about 5 scvs could out-repair the damage. As a comparison, 12 tempest does the same DPS as 13!!! marines... That is just silly. The only use I can see for this unit is chipping away at a late game BL + infestor army, forcing the zerg to engage in an unfavorable position. But thats about it. As for a late game capital ship, the tempest is a joke of a unit. I would much rather have the carrier in any situation.
Er... just saying, you're not paying to one-shot a worker. You're paying to one-shot a worker at 22 range. As far as I'm concerned, if you get Tempest there's no reason for them to not be firing at any given time. A marine is only firing while the battle goes on, the Tempest can potentially be firing all game if you micro it properly.
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On September 10 2012 15:39 BeyondCtrL wrote:
So, on a fully saturated base that's about 170 minerals if the person reacts instantly. Given reaction times, for pros, I'd say you can deny 200-300 minerals. Pathetic.
The amount of times you would have to cast Entomb to even pay for the Oracle is just stupid.
If you take a WP and suicide 2 Zealots and manage to kill 3 workers you would deny the same amount of minerals as an Entomb :S
Let's say it's 250 minerals. That's 5 workers worth of cash. Any half assed harassment attempt can at least get home with 4-5 worker kills unless you really crash your warp prism into a wall of missile turrets.
But wait! 5 worker kills actually means that the enemy loses 250 worth of minerals, and has to make another 5 workers so the potential damage is actually double. This is what most people (and definitely the designer eggheads at Blizzard HQ) fail to understand. Preventing mining is an issue, but losing workers is a BIGGER issue, because you lose a) the worker (50 cash each) b) the mining time c) the minerals you invest in re-training each lost worker.
This is the very simple reason why Oracle and Entomb are completely worthless. I'll take a warp prism full of zealots or sentrie ANY day and try to get me some worker kills, rather than getting cheesy with the stupid entomb.
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On September 10 2012 16:49 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 15:48 Millet wrote:On September 10 2012 14:54 ChristianS wrote:On September 10 2012 14:50 Meteo Rain wrote:
DB: That, or be comfortable with a light amount of damage and say “Look, I am not going to kill you with this but you can’t stay there forever. I am chipping away at you, I am not killing everything but I am beating you pretty good. You have to move away, or engage this tempest or figure something out because you have limited time to do it.” And that’s the other reason why I think it feels different than a standard artillery unit. Because the standard artillery units, like the siege tank, are all like “No, you are dead. You need to move immediately.” The tempest is like “Yeah, he’s working away at my nexus and this is a problem. But it’s not a problem I need to solve in four seconds, it’s a problem I need to solve in 30 seconds, or maybe a minute.” And that creates a different kind of feeling. "
Yeah... or he can just repair and stay where the heck he wants. People are upset about repair with tempests, but keep in mind the tempest does burst damage. So it doesn't need to out-DPS repair, because if you have enough to one-shot your target, then it dies before you have a chance to repair. For instance, 2 tempests one-shot workers, making repair or transfuse worthless in this scenario. Considering how much of an investment that is, to only be able to one shot a worker, I don't think it's viable at all. I recently saw a stream where 12 tempest (that is 3600/3600, and 72 supply) tried to kill a command center. They literally did 1/5th of the entire command centers complete health. At which point about 5 scvs could out-repair the damage. As a comparison, 12 tempest does the same DPS as 13!!! marines... That is just silly. The only use I can see for this unit is chipping away at a late game BL + infestor army, forcing the zerg to engage in an unfavorable position. But thats about it. As for a late game capital ship, the tempest is a joke of a unit. I would much rather have the carrier in any situation. Er... just saying, you're not paying to one-shot a worker. You're paying to one-shot a worker at 22 range. As far as I'm concerned, if you get Tempest there's no reason for them to not be firing at any given time. A marine is only firing while the battle goes on, the Tempest can potentially be firing all game if you micro it properly.
3-4 vikings or corruptors will shut down those pathetic flying-sentries with relative ease, especially when they're flying over some places that ground forces can not reach to protect
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I understand the idea behind the unit. I really believe that instead of a missile type attack, tempest should be like a long range Void Ray.
The idea of putting a unit in a position where they cant stay long is good. But giving a dps buff over time would really put a timer; i find the charging beam would be the best solution... Then again charging from a 22 range could kinda fuck up the games graphics...  but i still think there should be some kind of dps buff over time.
As stated, if scv's can out repair, its just stupid...
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people are getting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to bent out of shape for this beta waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to early, remember WOL beta, stalkers were weak, trash units, but soon after time they were found to be incredibly strong with no nerfs/buffs. give it time guys, input is great but these matter of fact statements are just flawed this early, you can theorycraft and say ifs and buts, but don't make these rash point of views and play them off as fact this early into the beat, if you were around to play the WoL beta you would understand, not saying you're wrong, just wrong to draw conclusions this early
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Pretty much spot on. Basically, Blizzard can't balance protoss properly because of the RIDICULOUS DAMAGE that warpgates have done to the games meta game. Warpgate warp in cross map is the core problem with protoss. It's what is keeping us weak and forcing us into timing attacks. It's our gimmick. Protoss is SUPER gimmicky because of it and they can't give us any real units because once we get a real unit suddenly you have that SUPER ugly real unit push + OH SNAP A BUNCH OF WARPINS AT YOUR BASE. Basically, protoss right now ruins the defenders supply advantage because our units show up... AT YOUR DOOR.
Warpgates need to be removed so that our tier 1 units can be properly balanced. Then they can give us real units with proper balance. Warpgates are still the core of the problem. Anything they give us is dangerous as hell because that new unit can be used in conjunction with warp ins at your base at any point. That's why the oracle is trash, that's why the tempest is trash. Warpgates + tempest won't cause anyone to quit the game. Give tempest more damage and suddenly that thing is a super dangerous artillery cannon backed up by endless warpgate units anywhere on the map. Warpgates warpgates warpgates... get rid of them.
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On September 10 2012 17:28 Xerxes Wrath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 16:49 ChristianS wrote:On September 10 2012 15:48 Millet wrote:On September 10 2012 14:54 ChristianS wrote:On September 10 2012 14:50 Meteo Rain wrote:
DB: That, or be comfortable with a light amount of damage and say “Look, I am not going to kill you with this but you can’t stay there forever. I am chipping away at you, I am not killing everything but I am beating you pretty good. You have to move away, or engage this tempest or figure something out because you have limited time to do it.” And that’s the other reason why I think it feels different than a standard artillery unit. Because the standard artillery units, like the siege tank, are all like “No, you are dead. You need to move immediately.” The tempest is like “Yeah, he’s working away at my nexus and this is a problem. But it’s not a problem I need to solve in four seconds, it’s a problem I need to solve in 30 seconds, or maybe a minute.” And that creates a different kind of feeling. "
Yeah... or he can just repair and stay where the heck he wants. People are upset about repair with tempests, but keep in mind the tempest does burst damage. So it doesn't need to out-DPS repair, because if you have enough to one-shot your target, then it dies before you have a chance to repair. For instance, 2 tempests one-shot workers, making repair or transfuse worthless in this scenario. Considering how much of an investment that is, to only be able to one shot a worker, I don't think it's viable at all. I recently saw a stream where 12 tempest (that is 3600/3600, and 72 supply) tried to kill a command center. They literally did 1/5th of the entire command centers complete health. At which point about 5 scvs could out-repair the damage. As a comparison, 12 tempest does the same DPS as 13!!! marines... That is just silly. The only use I can see for this unit is chipping away at a late game BL + infestor army, forcing the zerg to engage in an unfavorable position. But thats about it. As for a late game capital ship, the tempest is a joke of a unit. I would much rather have the carrier in any situation. Er... just saying, you're not paying to one-shot a worker. You're paying to one-shot a worker at 22 range. As far as I'm concerned, if you get Tempest there's no reason for them to not be firing at any given time. A marine is only firing while the battle goes on, the Tempest can potentially be firing all game if you micro it properly. 3-4 vikings or corruptors will shut down those pathetic flying-sentries with relative ease, especially when they're flying over some places that ground forces can not reach to protect
You may be right, but can I just ask, are you saying that from experience? Like, have you tried doing that with tempests and it didn't work for you? Or are you just assuming that will be the case? Because obviously Tempests themselves don't fare so well against vikings or corruptors, but that also forces them to go out in the open where you can kill them, since the Tempest hits from so far. Not to mention if you can see them coming a long way off and start retreating, or even kiting.
I think most people are complaining about the new units after either not using them at all, or using them once or twice and not immediately winning. I feel like if you played it properly Tempest harass could really be a bitch to deal with. People keep trying to fit it into the carrier's role, but quite frankly, there's practically zero overlap in their utility. They're both useful, but in very different circumstances.
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I am all for removing warpgates and rebalancing toss as a result. Except for that Blizzard cannot do much for early game toss or toss becomes even more of a timing attack race.
And Warhound and swarmhost are not BW units. Goliath was most powerful as AA unit, while Warhound has no AA attack, and lurker could attack while burrowed and you needed detection and it guaranteed damage (except against high level marine users :D) while swarm host has none of those capabilities. Even 1-2 lurkers was something to fear, while swarm hosts only work in bigger groups.
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On September 10 2012 15:48 Millet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 14:54 ChristianS wrote:On September 10 2012 14:50 Meteo Rain wrote:
DB: That, or be comfortable with a light amount of damage and say “Look, I am not going to kill you with this but you can’t stay there forever. I am chipping away at you, I am not killing everything but I am beating you pretty good. You have to move away, or engage this tempest or figure something out because you have limited time to do it.” And that’s the other reason why I think it feels different than a standard artillery unit. Because the standard artillery units, like the siege tank, are all like “No, you are dead. You need to move immediately.” The tempest is like “Yeah, he’s working away at my nexus and this is a problem. But it’s not a problem I need to solve in four seconds, it’s a problem I need to solve in 30 seconds, or maybe a minute.” And that creates a different kind of feeling. "
Yeah... or he can just repair and stay where the heck he wants. People are upset about repair with tempests, but keep in mind the tempest does burst damage. So it doesn't need to out-DPS repair, because if you have enough to one-shot your target, then it dies before you have a chance to repair. For instance, 2 tempests one-shot workers, making repair or transfuse worthless in this scenario. Considering how much of an investment that is, to only be able to one shot a worker, I don't think it's viable at all. I recently saw a stream where 12 tempest (that is 3600/3600, and 72 supply) tried to kill a command center. They literally did 1/5th of the entire command centers complete health. At which point about 5 scvs could out-repair the damage. As a comparison, 12 tempest does the same DPS as 13!!! marines... That is just silly. The only use I can see for this unit is chipping away at a late game BL + infestor army, forcing the zerg to engage in an unfavorable position. But thats about it. As for a late game capital ship, the tempest is a joke of a unit. I would much rather have the carrier in any situation.
Tempest aren't DPS units. They're siege units. There is a reason Tanks also have low DPS.
Protoss players just aren't used to non a-move/deathball units.
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On September 10 2012 18:24 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 17:28 Xerxes Wrath wrote:On September 10 2012 16:49 ChristianS wrote:On September 10 2012 15:48 Millet wrote:On September 10 2012 14:54 ChristianS wrote:On September 10 2012 14:50 Meteo Rain wrote:
DB: That, or be comfortable with a light amount of damage and say “Look, I am not going to kill you with this but you can’t stay there forever. I am chipping away at you, I am not killing everything but I am beating you pretty good. You have to move away, or engage this tempest or figure something out because you have limited time to do it.” And that’s the other reason why I think it feels different than a standard artillery unit. Because the standard artillery units, like the siege tank, are all like “No, you are dead. You need to move immediately.” The tempest is like “Yeah, he’s working away at my nexus and this is a problem. But it’s not a problem I need to solve in four seconds, it’s a problem I need to solve in 30 seconds, or maybe a minute.” And that creates a different kind of feeling. "
Yeah... or he can just repair and stay where the heck he wants. People are upset about repair with tempests, but keep in mind the tempest does burst damage. So it doesn't need to out-DPS repair, because if you have enough to one-shot your target, then it dies before you have a chance to repair. For instance, 2 tempests one-shot workers, making repair or transfuse worthless in this scenario. Considering how much of an investment that is, to only be able to one shot a worker, I don't think it's viable at all. I recently saw a stream where 12 tempest (that is 3600/3600, and 72 supply) tried to kill a command center. They literally did 1/5th of the entire command centers complete health. At which point about 5 scvs could out-repair the damage. As a comparison, 12 tempest does the same DPS as 13!!! marines... That is just silly. The only use I can see for this unit is chipping away at a late game BL + infestor army, forcing the zerg to engage in an unfavorable position. But thats about it. As for a late game capital ship, the tempest is a joke of a unit. I would much rather have the carrier in any situation. Er... just saying, you're not paying to one-shot a worker. You're paying to one-shot a worker at 22 range. As far as I'm concerned, if you get Tempest there's no reason for them to not be firing at any given time. A marine is only firing while the battle goes on, the Tempest can potentially be firing all game if you micro it properly. 3-4 vikings or corruptors will shut down those pathetic flying-sentries with relative ease, especially when they're flying over some places that ground forces can not reach to protect You may be right, but can I just ask, are you saying that from experience? Like, have you tried doing that with tempests and it didn't work for you? Or are you just assuming that will be the case? Because obviously Tempests themselves don't fare so well against vikings or corruptors, but that also forces them to go out in the open where you can kill them, since the Tempest hits from so far. Not to mention if you can see them coming a long way off and start retreating, or even kiting. I think most people are complaining about the new units after either not using them at all, or using them once or twice and not immediately winning. I feel like if you played it properly Tempest harass could really be a bitch to deal with. People keep trying to fit it into the carrier's role, but quite frankly, there's practically zero overlap in their utility. They're both useful, but in very different circumstances.
A bit from experience, and mostly from watching vods. Kiting with tempest is hard since they move slower than vikings and corruptors.
I agree that Beta has only last for a week, but after seeing how everyone stop using any of protoss new units, I started losing faith in Blizzard
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On September 10 2012 18:55 DemigodcelpH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 15:48 Millet wrote:On September 10 2012 14:54 ChristianS wrote:On September 10 2012 14:50 Meteo Rain wrote:
DB: That, or be comfortable with a light amount of damage and say “Look, I am not going to kill you with this but you can’t stay there forever. I am chipping away at you, I am not killing everything but I am beating you pretty good. You have to move away, or engage this tempest or figure something out because you have limited time to do it.” And that’s the other reason why I think it feels different than a standard artillery unit. Because the standard artillery units, like the siege tank, are all like “No, you are dead. You need to move immediately.” The tempest is like “Yeah, he’s working away at my nexus and this is a problem. But it’s not a problem I need to solve in four seconds, it’s a problem I need to solve in 30 seconds, or maybe a minute.” And that creates a different kind of feeling. "
Yeah... or he can just repair and stay where the heck he wants. People are upset about repair with tempests, but keep in mind the tempest does burst damage. So it doesn't need to out-DPS repair, because if you have enough to one-shot your target, then it dies before you have a chance to repair. For instance, 2 tempests one-shot workers, making repair or transfuse worthless in this scenario. Considering how much of an investment that is, to only be able to one shot a worker, I don't think it's viable at all. I recently saw a stream where 12 tempest (that is 3600/3600, and 72 supply) tried to kill a command center. They literally did 1/5th of the entire command centers complete health. At which point about 5 scvs could out-repair the damage. As a comparison, 12 tempest does the same DPS as 13!!! marines... That is just silly. The only use I can see for this unit is chipping away at a late game BL + infestor army, forcing the zerg to engage in an unfavorable position. But thats about it. As for a late game capital ship, the tempest is a joke of a unit. I would much rather have the carrier in any situation. Tempest aren't DPS units. They're siege units. There is a reason Tanks also have low DPS. Protoss players just aren't used to non a-move/deathball units.
Siege tanks do SPLASH damage, give Tempest Splash damage too and we'll talk
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On September 10 2012 19:04 Xerxes Wrath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 18:55 DemigodcelpH wrote:On September 10 2012 15:48 Millet wrote:On September 10 2012 14:54 ChristianS wrote:On September 10 2012 14:50 Meteo Rain wrote:
DB: That, or be comfortable with a light amount of damage and say “Look, I am not going to kill you with this but you can’t stay there forever. I am chipping away at you, I am not killing everything but I am beating you pretty good. You have to move away, or engage this tempest or figure something out because you have limited time to do it.” And that’s the other reason why I think it feels different than a standard artillery unit. Because the standard artillery units, like the siege tank, are all like “No, you are dead. You need to move immediately.” The tempest is like “Yeah, he’s working away at my nexus and this is a problem. But it’s not a problem I need to solve in four seconds, it’s a problem I need to solve in 30 seconds, or maybe a minute.” And that creates a different kind of feeling. "
Yeah... or he can just repair and stay where the heck he wants. People are upset about repair with tempests, but keep in mind the tempest does burst damage. So it doesn't need to out-DPS repair, because if you have enough to one-shot your target, then it dies before you have a chance to repair. For instance, 2 tempests one-shot workers, making repair or transfuse worthless in this scenario. Considering how much of an investment that is, to only be able to one shot a worker, I don't think it's viable at all. I recently saw a stream where 12 tempest (that is 3600/3600, and 72 supply) tried to kill a command center. They literally did 1/5th of the entire command centers complete health. At which point about 5 scvs could out-repair the damage. As a comparison, 12 tempest does the same DPS as 13!!! marines... That is just silly. The only use I can see for this unit is chipping away at a late game BL + infestor army, forcing the zerg to engage in an unfavorable position. But thats about it. As for a late game capital ship, the tempest is a joke of a unit. I would much rather have the carrier in any situation. Tempest aren't DPS units. They're siege units. There is a reason Tanks also have low DPS. Protoss players just aren't used to non a-move/deathball units. Siege tanks do SPLASH damage, give Tempest Splash damage too and we'll talk
Obvious counterargument: give Siege tanks 22 range and flight, and we'll talk.
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when talking about warpgate, why don't Blizzard make it slightly longer unit producing time than gateway so that players have to choose when and why to get the technology, when to use and how to use it.. and at the same time revert back the original gatewayand zealot stats.. isn't that will add some diversity in protoss gameplay?
warpgate is the only "cool" thing about protoss in WOL. removing it totally, Protoss will have nothing.
if there is a sideback when using warpgate compared to the gateway, i mean, at certain time or strategy it is the best to use gateway and at another different time and strategy, warpgate is a better choice. so player always have to make a decisions through out the game and warpgate is not the only 1 time things like right now.. warpgate is the absolute.. the is no reason not to get warpgate or convert gateway to warpgate.
it look like a minor thing but it will add something to the protoss boring gameplay. at the same time, it will slightly nerf late game protoss warping gameplay.
winning a game or tournament is one thing but make a great game is another very important thing. right now yes, protoss can win a tournament but protoss gameplay is not that interesting. Starcraft 2 is not as interesting as it predessor. i don't want SC2 to become a carbon copy of broodwar, but i want SC2 as great or better than BW. right now SC2 is not that interesting. with HOTS beta right now, it is the time to discuss how to improve SC2. forget about which race win the tournament right now.
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On September 10 2012 19:40 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 19:04 Xerxes Wrath wrote:On September 10 2012 18:55 DemigodcelpH wrote:On September 10 2012 15:48 Millet wrote:On September 10 2012 14:54 ChristianS wrote:On September 10 2012 14:50 Meteo Rain wrote:
DB: That, or be comfortable with a light amount of damage and say “Look, I am not going to kill you with this but you can’t stay there forever. I am chipping away at you, I am not killing everything but I am beating you pretty good. You have to move away, or engage this tempest or figure something out because you have limited time to do it.” And that’s the other reason why I think it feels different than a standard artillery unit. Because the standard artillery units, like the siege tank, are all like “No, you are dead. You need to move immediately.” The tempest is like “Yeah, he’s working away at my nexus and this is a problem. But it’s not a problem I need to solve in four seconds, it’s a problem I need to solve in 30 seconds, or maybe a minute.” And that creates a different kind of feeling. "
Yeah... or he can just repair and stay where the heck he wants. People are upset about repair with tempests, but keep in mind the tempest does burst damage. So it doesn't need to out-DPS repair, because if you have enough to one-shot your target, then it dies before you have a chance to repair. For instance, 2 tempests one-shot workers, making repair or transfuse worthless in this scenario. Considering how much of an investment that is, to only be able to one shot a worker, I don't think it's viable at all. I recently saw a stream where 12 tempest (that is 3600/3600, and 72 supply) tried to kill a command center. They literally did 1/5th of the entire command centers complete health. At which point about 5 scvs could out-repair the damage. As a comparison, 12 tempest does the same DPS as 13!!! marines... That is just silly. The only use I can see for this unit is chipping away at a late game BL + infestor army, forcing the zerg to engage in an unfavorable position. But thats about it. As for a late game capital ship, the tempest is a joke of a unit. I would much rather have the carrier in any situation. Tempest aren't DPS units. They're siege units. There is a reason Tanks also have low DPS. Protoss players just aren't used to non a-move/deathball units. Siege tanks do SPLASH damage, give Tempest Splash damage too and we'll talk Obvious counterargument: give Siege tanks 22 range and flight, and we'll talk.
While we're at it, remove splash, make them cost 300/300, 6 supply, require a 300/200 tech structure, and we'll see how will terran playes make them as effective as they claim they are
So basically, give terran Tempest instead of Warhound, and we'll see who will complain
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Guys don't go into balance Issues, there are other topics to do so.
Question is about protoss desingn being broken and gimmick, not about which race is stronger/weaker.
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Since the release of WoL, I have had a feeling that Blizzard don't understand the design of Protoss anymore. They do what they think is cool, but they don't know that it's just extremely stupid
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So how does the (supposed, I haven't seen it in action myself) removal of high-ground warp-in affect Protoss overall?
I want to say it would only make things worse for Protoss overall in HotS, but again, I haven't seen it in action so I don't know. The underlying issue still lies with warpgates themselves, but that is something which won't be changed, unfortunately.
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I totaly agree with opening post.
Why I should buy game when I as protoss player don't get anything from it? 2 useless new unit that don't fix issue of protoss.
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Hmmm, I actually think the warp-in mechanic is pretty cool, and adds a lot of aggressive options.
I think the problem with Protoss is that their units need to be in one huge ball in order to fight cost efficiently.
The warp-in mechanic, and the recall ability both encourage Protoss players to split their army into tiny chunks to harass and defend multiple bases. The problem is that they rely on expensive deathball units like the Colossus High templar (and now Tempest?) to win fights vs equal cost armies by the other races. I wish the Stalker was more powerful in straight up fights. I love the unit as a mobile harass unit, but Protoss could really use a Dragoon type unit available from the gateway imo.
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EPT
