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The State of Protoss units: WTF? - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
Post a Reply
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Twiggs
Profile Joined January 2011
United States600 Posts
September 08 2012 02:46 GMT
#41
Holy shit its BACK! Did anyone else see this?

[image loading]

VS

[image loading]

The floating ball of death is back! Except its on the good side this time

Its funny if you see the resemblance
My life for Auir | FLASH . JD . BISU . HERO . Nony . Incontrol . FIGHTING
An2quamaraN
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland379 Posts
September 08 2012 04:59 GMT
#42
I agree with everything you said but that Oracle spell...talking about useless harasses what can be more useless than increasing enemy's production costs in a certain area?

1) Not only you count Zerg out, but half of the protoss units comes from gateway. Now, let me use the gateways you did not put the spell on.
2) The AoE on that destabilize would have to be like the size of a base for it to be not retarded
3) This spell is useless when enemy are not making units, i.e are maxed and banking.
Infernal_dream
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2359 Posts
September 08 2012 05:09 GMT
#43
On September 08 2012 11:46 R3demption wrote:
Holy shit its BACK! Did anyone else see this?

[image loading]

VS

[image loading]

The floating ball of death is back! Except its on the good side this time

Its funny if you see the resemblance


Rofl. So sad and true. Innovative blizzard over here. On topic though. The oracle is shit. "OUR WORKERS ARE UNDER ATTACK" shouldn't be screamed at the player. Considering ya know, his units actually aren't being attacked. Then it might actually stop you from mining for a decent amount of time. As is now you just see people select all the workers, a move then go right back to mining three seconds later. It's a huge waste of energy.
BoZiffer
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1841 Posts
September 08 2012 05:19 GMT
#44
On September 08 2012 14:09 Infernal_dream wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2012 11:46 R3demption wrote:
Holy shit its BACK! Did anyone else see this?

[image loading]

VS

[image loading]

The floating ball of death is back! Except its on the good side this time

Its funny if you see the resemblance


Rofl. So sad and true. Innovative blizzard over here. On topic though. The oracle is shit. "OUR WORKERS ARE UNDER ATTACK" shouldn't be screamed at the player. Considering ya know, his units actually aren't being attacked. Then it might actually stop you from mining for a decent amount of time. As is now you just see people select all the workers, a move then go right back to mining three seconds later. It's a huge waste of energy.


I agree with that or maybe have the mini-map light up but no audio alert? Something along those lines might be sufficient.
GregMandel
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
France822 Posts
September 08 2012 05:32 GMT
#45
On September 08 2012 03:57 testthewest wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2012 03:12 GregMandel wrote:
And secondly I myself, do believe that the Tempest is fine. How do you counter it in PvT ? Vikings ? But wait there's stalkers ! But warhounds counter stalkers hard !


Is that a real question? How to counter that 2100mins/2100 gas 42 army supply? Easy: Use Marines and medivacs, stim forward, kill everything in seconds (tempest, stalkers and immortals) knowing he can't possibly have gas left for colossus and end the game that must have been going on for 40min to have these amounts of ressources, in 30 secounds.

Show nested quote +
On September 08 2012 03:12 GregMandel wrote:
At least give a chance to the tempest instead of insta raging after 3 days of beta --"


They should really put him to a test. Make him OP like the warhound, then it will be build more, then we can see if it's a good concept.


Seriously ? I'm talking about PvT versus Mech, what would be the point of the tempest against bio anyways ? Snipe marines from your nat ?
FYI when you go mech you don't just spawn 45 rines out of nowhere on 1 rax.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD8QLNiolfk - Racing with the sun
zoohairZ
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada254 Posts
September 08 2012 07:30 GMT
#46
idk if its just me but i feel like the entomb ability doesnt really fit the feel of sc2. It's just awkward.
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
September 08 2012 13:04 GMT
#47
I think Tempests are a great unit. 22 range means I can cripple infestor broodlord armies so that the rest of my units have an easier time. Maybe pick off whatever corruptors i didn't vortex so my colossi can live.

Maybe even viable in PvP. So instead of having colossus wars and both sides going back and forth all the time before the big engagement, you can just park 2-3 tempests on a cliff and shoot colossi.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
SC_Ghost
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom64 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-08 13:58:57
September 08 2012 13:57 GMT
#48
I skimmed over the OP and started to lose interest when the grammar and use-of-language started to sound like a disheartened adolescent, which is quite disappointing since even IF you did come up with good points you've ruined their depth. Anyway, I guess I have bit onto the subject.

I actually like the dynamics the new units bring. As Sentinel stated above me, the Tempest is a great way to chip away, force position and engagements from a BL/Infestor army. Paired with HT for over-extended Infestors and a MS it's a fantastic combo in that situation where previously protoss had no way to effectively 'herd' the Zerg army.

The Oracle brings a great dynamic in the sense that it doesn't have a place in an army, hence by design it pulls itself out of the deathball. Entomb is a good economic harassment skill. The problem is where they place the Oracle outside of its primary function. There is two outcomes: Remove its alternate functions and reduce its cost OR improve its alternate abilities to accommodate for its cost.

The Mothership Core fits very well with the new direction of the Protoss race. It's designed to provide early defensive support without pulling away from the tech-path (replacing forges and cannons) and furthermore, allowing a heavy, harassment-centric mid-game with the use of Recall. Personally, Purify needs to be buffed: Perhaps increase its attack speed significantly. On the other hand, I don't think Energize should be in the game, at least not on the Mothership Core. To be honest it has a very niche use, perhaps too situational, and it pulls away from the more interesting dynamics that the Mothership Core brings: guerrilla warfare and drive-by antics.

So personally, I would remove Energize, buff Purify, reduce the energy cost of Oracle abilities (to accommodate for the loss of Energize) and perhaps improve the Oracles alternate functions.

One idea of my own I would like to put forward: Shield upgrades at a forge increase the HP of Entomb. Thoughts?
denyeverything
Profile Joined March 2012
25 Posts
September 08 2012 19:51 GMT
#49
Mothership Core

I think it's fine. It give Protoss a lot of subtle changes to their early game. Tweaks are fine, but overall I think it's a strong idea and as a design concept the strongest one in HoTS (Viper probably coming in second).

Oracle

One thing that has been mentioned, and didn't really consider until now is that the gas costs are way too high and overall the unit is fairly weak. Cloak was an interesting idea, and I would be curious to see it return. Honestly, the reality is that someone important at Blizzard absolutely loves this unit, and it's not going to get fundamental changes.

Tempest

I'd remove the Fleet Beacon requirement (unless they get a serious damage boost, which would create problems, these are not functional as a capital ship and are more a support unit) and make it work as a void ray in reverse, i.e. it charges when it does not attack. This ups the burst damage into a lot (think Mini Yamato Cannons). However, after the initial volley, it decreases to current DPS levels. If done right, I see a lot of strategic possibilities for this unit. If done wrong, it'll never be used.

Carrier

Sure, bring it back. I'm not nostalgic for it, but I don't see why it should be axed. It's not broken, and it's not unplayable. Taking away a toy for no reason seems illogical. This is an expansion... you are not supposed to remove content.
Tao367
Profile Joined June 2012
United Kingdom324 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-08 20:14:45
September 08 2012 20:11 GMT
#50
I'm almost upset that every protoss stream I've watched in the beta now doesn't use the new units after the novelty of new units has worn off. The units made/built are literally the same from wol. Blizzard needs to think about Protoss. Hard.

It feels like the only thing they've changed is the high ground warp in nerf... therefore actually reducing the number of strategies that are viable.
uncleheinz
Profile Joined December 2011
18 Posts
September 08 2012 20:11 GMT
#51
Seriously by the time tempests are on the field(unless you tempest rush off 1 base which is retarded), any race can afford MASS detection. What kind of retard is gonna allow an observer to float over their army when tempests are on the field?
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
September 08 2012 20:18 GMT
#52
I don't understand why protoss needs another harassment unit in the first place. They have the phoenix. They have the warp prism. It just makes absolutely no sense.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Fig
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1324 Posts
September 08 2012 20:43 GMT
#53
On September 09 2012 04:51 denyeverything wrote:
Tempest

I'd remove the Fleet Beacon requirement (unless they get a serious damage boost, which would create problems, these are not functional as a capital ship and are more a support unit) and make it work as a void ray in reverse, i.e. it charges when it does not attack. This ups the burst damage into a lot (think Mini Yamato Cannons). However, after the initial volley, it decreases to current DPS levels. If done right, I see a lot of strategic possibilities for this unit. If done wrong, it'll never be used.


This is exactly my thoughts too. The tempest is not a capital ship. It is supposed to do the poking. I like your way of thinking of it as a reverse void ray. I would be fine with the void ray being taken away and replaced with this new tempest, instead keeping the carrier as the capital ship.
Can't elope with my cantaloupe
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
September 08 2012 21:07 GMT
#54
Once you acquire a few Tempests, I think no one would dare to base-race against you (since you will have plenty of vision to shoot your opponents afar). Am I thinking right?
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
September 08 2012 21:22 GMT
#55
On September 09 2012 06:07 usethis2 wrote:
Once you acquire a few Tempests, I think no one would dare to base-race against you (since you will have plenty of vision to shoot your opponents afar). Am I thinking right?


No, the DPS is laughable, you would lose every base race.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
September 08 2012 21:29 GMT
#56
On September 09 2012 06:22 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2012 06:07 usethis2 wrote:
Once you acquire a few Tempests, I think no one would dare to base-race against you (since you will have plenty of vision to shoot your opponents afar). Am I thinking right?


No, the DPS is laughable, you would lose every base race.


No I think what he means is your army goes and kills his base, while your tempests slow down his progress by picking off units.

That's what I would do in a situation like that anyway.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Havik_
Profile Joined November 2011
United States5585 Posts
September 08 2012 21:30 GMT
#57
Not sure if I agree with the changes, but its clear to me that Protoss gets the shitty end of the stick with this expansion. I think toss needs more early/mid game stuff. Mothership Core is good, but I think a new unit that can be warped in from the Twilight Council would be a good addition. Because the way things are now, I can see a lot of players switching to Zerg or Terran.
"An opinion is only as good as the evidence that backs it up."- William O'Malley, S.J.
Fig
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1324 Posts
September 08 2012 21:44 GMT
#58
On September 09 2012 06:30 Havik_ wrote:
Not sure if I agree with the changes, but its clear to me that Protoss gets the shitty end of the stick with this expansion. I think toss needs more early/mid game stuff. Mothership Core is good, but I think a new unit that can be warped in from the Twilight Council would be a good addition. Because the way things are now, I can see a lot of players switching to Zerg or Terran.

How can you see me? Where are you? =P

But seriously, yeah there is no reason to stick with toss. Why play WoL when then other races get to play HotS?
Can't elope with my cantaloupe
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
September 08 2012 21:46 GMT
#59
Terran was super OP at the beginning of WoL as well, remember?

I think the races will somewhat stabilize, at the worst case protoss in HotS release will be like Terran in WoL today.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-08 21:48:14
September 08 2012 21:47 GMT
#60
The Oracle is weird in its current incarnation. Anyway, if Protoss need more harass options that does not mean that they need a harass unit. Rather, Protoss need a unit that can harass effectively (and also do other stuff). I reckon the Phoenix can, maybe, still do harass effectively (and also lead to greater SG play) by just reducing the energy requirement for the GV beam (say 25 energy). You then have a unit that can harass better but can also be used in big battles even if the opponent does not go heavy air (i.e. the Phoenix retains its usefulness throughout the game against Air and Ground).
KT best KT ~ 2014
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