On September 10 2012 01:23 D4V3Z02 wrote: Protoss just becomes harder and thats good because It was the least mechanically demanding race, even Artosis said it. It was pretty much sitting only on 2/3 bases and attacking. Now you got chances to expand because you can pin your enemy at his base with your new oracle and even scout him with it.
Oh, bullshit.
Spamming marines and marauders is the least mechanically demanding race.
I owned a diamond Terran in WoL the other week with high templars. I asked him why he didn't produce a single ghost the entire match. He answered that he's not grandmaster and can't be expected to do all that complicated stuff like upgrading to tier 3 and using EMP.
That's Terran. You're Modern Warfare 2 kiddies turned SC2 players. Bread and butter stuff for gold league Toss players, like upgrading to tier 3 and using spells, is over the head of all but the best Terrans.
Hey clicking back and forth is actually high level micro with a ton of decision making...
I am surprised with all the hate for the mothership core. It looks like something that could be really promising. That extra energy and the ability to finally save your gas heavy units seems to add a ton of resilience that simply isn't here in SC2 Toss.
On September 10 2012 02:00 Sabu113 wrote: I am surprised with all the hate for the mothership core. It looks like something that could be really promising. That extra energy and the ability to finally save your gas heavy units seems to add a ton of resilience that simply isn't here in SC2 Toss.
The Mothership Core is probably the only unit worth saving as it is, because its defense potential with the Purify ability is not completely laughable. The mass recall ability is a big question mark as of now, it's good for obvious reasons (mass recall duh), but you have to understand that in HotS (beta) Protoss have the same early-mid pressure ability they had in WoL, and that amounts to nearly zero. There's a reason why Protoss tend to all in a lot and that's because our early pushes are pretty weak compared to those of other races, unless we completely commit to them (all in). We were supposed to have a new harassment unit, after praying for one for the last two years, and what we got is the Oracle.
As more beta replays come out for HotS, I'm starting to think part of the problem is that both terran and zerg got units "specifically" designed to help them versus protoss... But protoss didn't get a unit that's specifically designed to help them with either race... Oh, wait, we got that capital ship tempest thing right? It's supposed to deal with brood lords and siege tanks!!! Oh what was that? You say the tempest can't even do that... oh...
On September 10 2012 02:14 draemn wrote: As more beta replays come out for HotS, I'm starting to think part of the problem is that both terran and zerg got units "specifically" designed to help them versus protoss... But protoss didn't get a unit that's specifically designed to help them with either race... Oh, wait, we got that capital ship tempest thing right? It's supposed to deal with brood lords and siege tanks!!! Oh what was that? You say the tempest can't even do that... oh...
It kills them siege tanks, alright.
Then after the terran army has stood still for 5 minutes and lost all their tanks you're going to strike with your timing attack.
That thread is scaring me. The Mothership Core seems to be great as is. Although I do like the suggestion that Tempests do bonus damage to armored units. Since we are going to be sniping Brood Lords and Tanks with them, amirite?
And holy shit do people want Warp Gate gone. I think it's a great, unique mechanic personally. The idea of getting your units first and then waiting for cooldown is very interesting to play with IMO.
Anyways, someone go count the number of abilities added and removed during the WoL beta. It's a big number. Quit whining and wait for some patches.
On September 10 2012 02:19 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: That thread is scaring me. The Mothership Core seems to be great as is. Although I do like the suggestion that Tempests do bonus damage to armored units. Since we are going to be sniping Brood Lords and Tanks with them, amirite?
And holy shit do people want Warp Gate gone. I think it's a great, unique mechanic personally. The idea of getting your units first and then waiting for cooldown is very interesting to play with IMO.
Anyways, someone go count the number of abilities added and removed during the WoL beta. It's a big number. Quit whining and wait for some patches.
My problem with this beta is that imho it should never have come to beta stage in this state. Seriously, Warhound ignoring Immortal's hardened shields... we have one (1) unit, as Protoss, to counter mechs, and that's Immortal. Was it that hard to realize it would be completely broken to have a terran mech ignoring the protoss antimech's only upper-hand ability? Does it take weeks or months of beta to figure out?
On September 10 2012 02:14 draemn wrote: As more beta replays come out for HotS, I'm starting to think part of the problem is that both terran and zerg got units "specifically" designed to help them versus protoss... But protoss didn't get a unit that's specifically designed to help them with either race... Oh, wait, we got that capital ship tempest thing right? It's supposed to deal with brood lords and siege tanks!!! Oh what was that? You say the tempest can't even do that... oh...
It kills them siege tanks, alright.
Then after the terran army has stood still for 5 minutes and lost all their tanks you're going to strike with your timing attack.
Yep yep, now if the tempest just had an ability that kept your opponents army from moving and prevented production...
I think the should just triple the DPS of the tempest, not give it splash and see how it does and nerf later if they need to.
On September 07 2012 16:19 Gben592 wrote: My biggest issue with the oracle is there its too damn easy to use for harass. A pro player using an oracle will basically have the same effect as a casual player using an oracle.... Blizz wants this to be an e-sport... for a game to be a sport people need to be able to improve!!!
Ermm. It dies to 1 well placed turret/spore. So you still have the babysit it a lil bit.
I just saw babyknight do some awesome stuff vs a marine warhound player with tempests and oracles, its definitely got room to be very useful, people just keep using them as though they are straight up combat units, babyknight used it the oracle to gain vision, and then wrecked a whole base (and killed the pack of vikings the terran was trying to build up on reaction) with tempests.
On September 10 2012 02:14 draemn wrote: As more beta replays come out for HotS, I'm starting to think part of the problem is that both terran and zerg got units "specifically" designed to help them versus protoss... But protoss didn't get a unit that's specifically designed to help them with either race... Oh, wait, we got that capital ship tempest thing right? It's supposed to deal with brood lords and siege tanks!!! Oh what was that? You say the tempest can't even do that... oh...
It kills them siege tanks, alright.
Then after the terran army has stood still for 5 minutes and lost all their tanks you're going to strike with your timing attack.
The idea is that the terran is going to have to either attack your army without tank support, or unsiege and go somewhere else. Tempest does that pretty well. But probably, warhounds are so strong that he actually CAN go and kill your army without tank support. Not the Tempest's fault.
On September 10 2012 02:14 draemn wrote: As more beta replays come out for HotS, I'm starting to think part of the problem is that both terran and zerg got units "specifically" designed to help them versus protoss... But protoss didn't get a unit that's specifically designed to help them with either race... Oh, wait, we got that capital ship tempest thing right? It's supposed to deal with brood lords and siege tanks!!! Oh what was that? You say the tempest can't even do that... oh...
It kills them siege tanks, alright.
Then after the terran army has stood still for 5 minutes and lost all their tanks you're going to strike with your timing attack.
The idea is that the terran is going to have to either attack your army without tank support, or unsiege and go somewhere else. Tempest does that pretty well. But probably, warhounds are so strong that he actually CAN go and kill your army without tank support. Not the Tempest's fault.
What if you, say, bring SCVs that out-repair the tempests(unless you oneshot them so you need to invest in 6 tempest..)
On September 10 2012 01:23 D4V3Z02 wrote: Protoss just becomes harder and thats good because It was the least mechanically demanding race, even Artosis said it. It was pretty much sitting only on 2/3 bases and attacking. Now you got chances to expand because you can pin your enemy at his base with your new oracle and even scout him with it.
Oh, bullshit.
Spamming marines and marauders is the least mechanically demanding race.
I owned a diamond Terran in WoL the other week with high templars. I asked him why he didn't produce a single ghost the entire match. He answered that he's not grandmaster and can't be expected to do all that complicated stuff like upgrading to tier 3 and using EMP.
That's Terran. You're Modern Warfare 2 kiddies turned SC2 players. Bread and butter stuff for gold league Toss players, like upgrading to tier 3 and using spells, is over the head of all but the best Terrans.
This has got to be the stupidest ever post I've read on TL.
You have no understanding of the game or that one randomer on the ladder doesn't speak for all of us. ---
I wouldn't say any of the races got a shortstick, a lot of the new units are OP and they will all be nerfed. Watch several nerfs hit the warhound before launch and rightfully so.
This is absolutely hilarious. It's like he thinks he is a Protoss in real life.
Stop being so depressed. It's just a beta. Protoss will be buffed.
It's not about buffing or nerfing shit. It pains me that people like you don't understand the concept of bad design where it's not about how much the race wins or looses but how much Protoss sucks as a race,it blows so fucking much right now to play it. Not because it's weak,not because it's OP,because it's not fun the way you have to play it and no I don't want to change my race,I want to play protoss. I was going back and forth with the thought about writing a blog/thread to try to create an initiative for protoss players so they could somehow show blizzard how much changes the race needs,but I just realized that I don't really care enough in the end of the day and don't have the strength to do something like that. Even if we started something and aggressively advocated changes from blizzard it wouldn't come any time soon if ever. I said this before and I'll say it again,if blizzard doesn't radically change the way protoss works in LotV,starcraft will die off soon because people won't be bothered anymore with the snooze fest that is protoss.
Not the right thread, but I hope they "buff" the select army icon. It's a small thing but a thing that I find annoying. I don't want the probe to be the icon when it doesn't select any of your probes because they aren't fighting units. If you go out of your way to show players how to attack move with units... it makes little sense to have the same icon for idle workers and to select your army, as obv that's a lot more confusing. An "EZ" graphic/icon would suffice for me.
On September 10 2012 02:14 draemn wrote: As more beta replays come out for HotS, I'm starting to think part of the problem is that both terran and zerg got units "specifically" designed to help them versus protoss... But protoss didn't get a unit that's specifically designed to help them with either race... Oh, wait, we got that capital ship tempest thing right? It's supposed to deal with brood lords and siege tanks!!! Oh what was that? You say the tempest can't even do that... oh...
It kills them siege tanks, alright.
Then after the terran army has stood still for 5 minutes and lost all their tanks you're going to strike with your timing attack.
The idea is that the terran is going to have to either attack your army without tank support, or unsiege and go somewhere else. Tempest does that pretty well. But probably, warhounds are so strong that he actually CAN go and kill your army without tank support. Not the Tempest's fault.
What if you, say, bring SCVs that out-repair the tempests(unless you oneshot them so you need to invest in 6 tempest..)
They do 30 damage per shot. Kill the SVCs and then kill the tanks.
You are forgeting that you still have zealots which is by far the strongest unit in the game in terms of mineral cost, apm needed to handle them. They are kinda like thors, you just have them and move them around with the rest of the army, just make sure that they are in the front to soak damage.
If the entire toss army was to have state of the art army like OP pretty much wants toss to have, then their would be no balance at all.
Toss is good enough as it is, you just feel left out right now because you have not had any new unit that kicks uber much ass.
By looking at games so far from demuslim and destiny toss is actually looking decent right now.
Tho i agree that tempest would need some tweaking.
On September 10 2012 06:25 Granter wrote: Abit to much complains from OP in this thread.
You are forgeting that you still have zealots which is by far the strongest unit in the game in terms of mineral cost, apm needed to handle them. They are kinda like thors, you just have them and move them around with the rest of the army, just make sure that they are in the front to soak damage.
If the entire toss army was to have state of the art army like OP pretty much wants toss to have, then their would be no balance at all.
Toss is good enough as it is, you just feel left out right now because you have not had any new unit that kicks uber much ass.
By looking at games so far from demuslim and destiny toss is actually looking decent right now.
Tho i agree that tempest would need some tweaking.
Thing is that you are probably talking about 3/3 chargelots, which are awesome. But the Zealot itself, early game, without the charge is really not so good unit.
Anyway as it was stated before all the talks are not about Protoss being OP or lose to other races. It's more about the fun playing the race and the feelings that you get by doing so. I'm a big fan of Toss, all their Khalai and Templar shit, so I play this race, and it was very neat in BW.
But now it has come to be a race that relies on gimmicks and lategame-deathball style of play, which is actually really boring. Sometimes i play as a terran and I really think that playing T bio is soooo cool, as It's very versalite and micro-intensive. But you can also play mech (especially now with the skillhound in play) and also use the deathball style.
Hovever Toss doesn't have the options to do so, the race is not flexible, only thing that pops in my mind is blink stalkers (which are fun, but still too fragile).
So the whole race is forced into 2 options: 1. Survive early game, get deathball - > amove 2. Do a gimmick allin.
This is how it is.
There are lots of complains about the WG tech and FF, so the P's are sayin - okay, we're fine, nerf that shit, but please make gateway units more useful, so we can split them and we won't have to GET AOE OR DIE!
TL; DR HOTS TOSS is boring. Changes suck. Gateay units suck. Nerf WG and FF, buff gateway. FOR THE MEMORY OF TASSADAR GIVE THE CARRIER BACK
EPT
