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I personally think its just funny how whenever something new is introduced, even if its not final, it gets shat on until it is completely removed. After it gets removed, then people want to complain about how that want something like it back in the game. The game is still in the alpha stage and im sure that the Warhound will get its far share of nerfs as all Terran units do.
The carrier for instance. Everyone shat on the carrier and most people still do. Blizzard removes that carrier from HotS, now everyone wants the carrier back... but no one uses it. Anytime anything new for terran is introduced, it is considered overpowered because it is usually (like all the other races units..) an attack move unit. Sure, Blizzard could remove the Warhound, but then what will you guys bitch about then? Lets say the Warhound gets removed but is replaced by a standard Goliath that acts similarly to the Goliath from BW, what will you get then? A ton of BW players shitting on it and non-BW players bitching about how SC2 is different from BW which means that it should not be re-introducing old units, but instead introducing newer units that do nearly the same thing.
off topic...
The Carrier (imo) should be used as a siege unit similar to a (herp derp) Siege Tank. The Tempest fits the EXACT same role, a ranged siege unit. You cant leave 3-4 Siege tanks out in the open to siege up an area can you (without protection)? You cant do that with the Carrier either can you? So why would you expect to be able to do it with the tempest? Brood Lords are considered siege units. Do you leave those out in the open alone? no, or you lose the game. it doesnt matter if you have 2 Brood Lords or 20, if they are left in the open with no type back up protection, they will die. Same story for collosus.
Now back on topic..
In TvP, even if the Warhound is not considered a "Mech" Unit (even though the description of it is clearly "Mechanical"), it is an excellent replacement to the useless Thor in TvP. You can make as many Thors as you want in TvP, but you will die to Templar and Chargelots. Thors have energy whereas the Warhound does not, so they will not lose half of their health to a single Feedback. You can get out 3-4 Warhounds on 1 base to hold off a cheesy Blink Stalker all in, but can you get out 3-4 thors? No. They take far too long to build and in small numbers will not do the job of handling blink stalkers, even if you mass repair them. If you get 3-4 warhounds, you will more than likely be able to also get out a Siege Tank or 2 to accompany them. Hell, you could probably get out a few marauders and do just as well to help the Warhounds hold off shit like that.
Some of you are complaining about the Warhound being ugly... I think the whole Zerg race is filled with ugly looking units but it seems that they are doing fine. Since when did Starcraft Players start caring about how a unit looks? It's just ignorant to try to add a units appearance into an argument over why it should be removed from a game.
Anyways, I think the Warhound is an excellent unit that will probably be nerfed to shit. It is unusable in TvZ and TvT imo (moreso TvZ). In TvT, it will just take supply away from marines and tanks. The only way Warhounds could be decent in TvT is if it is Mech vs Mech in which case it will be a mirrored Warhound, Viking, Tank staredown. TvP it would be great early game and late game. I personally would only get them in the mid game if I knew an all in was coming or if I knew that whoever I was playing decided to go for Robo Tech over Templar. Otherwise, I would just use MMM until the Late-Mid game to Late game which would then consist of alot of Ghosts and Battle Hellions along with possibly a few marauders and vikings.
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On August 15 2012 02:57 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 02:53 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:33 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:25 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:11 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:08 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:05 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 15 2012 02:04 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:03 Tom Cruise wrote:
[quote]
none needed. Sarcasm I hope. why so? 'Cause you know, debating with arguments and reasoning, you know, all that stuff..... I still have a glimmer of hope. On August 15 2012 02:06 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:04 Grapefruit wrote:
With no AA there is literally no reason to build them, instead of tanks. blinks stalkers and immortals are 2 good reasons In that case, you won't want Tanks - you'll want Warhounds instead of them. And tankless mech isn't mech - it's just like Bio, but without micro, which isn't what I want as spectator or player. ?? silly argument Can you read the whole post please ? Warhounds and tanks aren't complementary. So you'll have Thor/Hellion/Warhound - a mechanical army that behaves just like Bio except it is microless. I'll redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325On August 15 2012 02:13 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 01:48 Thaniri wrote:
Dakim literally said that the warhound and hellion are being designed to be a-move units in the anaheim interview.
They just don't realize how stupid that is. I dont know why everyone is jumping on this bandwagon... Two of the three races right now ARE predominantly a-move armies so this isnt really anything that's stupid or different. But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL. You made alot of assumptions for something that isn't even on the beta. First off you don't know the composition and the meta games in the HOTS, but keep this in mind. Mech without tank is simply a bioball that is 1) slower 2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical) 3) cannot be healed. Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Secondly, mech describes composition where your majority of food is comes from the factory. It has nothing to do with tank or not. Lastly, warhound is more apm intensive then people give credits. Having to spam haywire (depending on how many you got) every 6 seconds is not light on the apm counts. on top of tank focus fire, positioning, hellion controls etc Spamming every 6 seconds during fights ? That's not very hard. It's super easy in fact. As for the rest - I'll just redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325 . What makes mech interesting is not that the units are mechanical. It is that it's a completely different way to play the game. 1) slower
2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical)
3) cannot be healed.
Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Why not ? I haven't had the impression were even remotely good against zealots, and Blizz just gave Terran a great counter. Tankless mech is also faster as you do not have to leapfrog, and Warhounds can't be healed either. On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:
But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL.
Right, but the rest of the terran units are still VERY micro intensive. They can (and probably should) still work on adding some micro into the other races even if they add the warhound to the terran army. The more micro (for everyone) the better. This game doesn't need a second marauder or colossus. On August 15 2012 02:31 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 02:30 Bjoernzor wrote:
The warhound is a marauder that comes out of the factory, go figue It has more life and more range... It is not economical to run marauders into a tank line to try and break it. I really, really dont think that most of the complainers have tried using it yet. More life and more range doesn't make a unit play differently. Its really a bothersome replying to split up quotes, but don't ever underestimate the micro it needs to fire haywire every 6 seconds. Mouseover selection and accuracy is definitely something not to be underestimated, especially when you have to do it for every single warhound you produced. I gave you a reason why pure battlehellion/warhound won't work if you produce them purely. Because you are still not going to beat the late game firepower of the protoss units without having massive aoe dmg of your own. Not a god damn chance. your units is going to melt in the face of protoss late game without tank support Why don't you go find a terran/protoss, and go see how awesome your battlehellion/warhound composition fair against late game protoss. Have fun and there is nothing wrong with marauders. Did marauders make terran bio 1-a or made them not micro intensive? Last I check Terran is still an incredibly APM intensive race regardless of having marauders or not Maybe up to gm it'd be considered as micro but for ppl who played bw it's just a huge joke... mouse accuracy is miles harder in ghosts/ht battles....
but you're still going to have ghosts/ht battles or tanks/ht battles, and everything else that your usual mech based army have to deal with. If you have 6 warhounds, that is 6 haywire per rounds, or equivalent of 60 APM to control haywires perfectly. I'd say that is quite taxing if you want to manually control them perfectly.
Is the current mech style "micro-less"? sure, I suppose. But mech army requires different kind of skill from bio army, they are not directly comparable. And additional warhound and widow mine only adds more APM to the mech army, not less.
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On August 15 2012 02:54 darkness wrote:
Also from the battle report I watched, I'm leaning towards not buying hots. Its gameplay looks so... boring. I will give beta a chance though.
This. Swarm Host doesn't even work well as a siege unit, only the Brood Lord is the true siege unit.
The Locusts made by the Swarm Host are just free units that still have to deal with pathing and walking everywhere.
It's ONLY good angle is the free units.
Also the Viper is such a lol unit. Abducts EVERYWHERE.
The improved Hydra and Ultra are what make the expansion good. It's a godsend for zerg. Zerg has to be made this op because just look at what terran is getting! Holy shit they got the best new stuff.
Terran looks a lot more op and fun for the person playing Terran. However if you're the opponent vs Terran never move out without detection because Widow Mines are cheap and will fuck everything up for you. Look away from your mineral line for 8 seconds? Bye mineral line.
Also, Warhounds. Want to beat mech units? Make a few of these and a-move them to erase your enemies mech units off the map. Thors will only be used vs Zerg because Warhounds are useless in TvZ.
TvT will become a nightmare, and will based on the winner being the lucky guy with Haywire Missiles off cooldown and killing all the enemy's Warhounds. It will be like those horrible Colossus wars, but for Terran. At least Terran won't be at a standstill anymore.
Battle mode Hellions are an amazing godsend for terran, they just got Firebats back. And they only cost 100 minerals.
Ridiculous.
Protoss is officially the "annoying" race now. Entomb. Tempest 22 range. Recall available at the start of the game. Harass harass harass. Ugh.
I wish they would give Tempests an ability or something just to make them not completely retarded and worse than the Carrier.
Battlecruisers have TWO abilities in HotS. Yamato Cannon and Redline Reactor.
I propose the Tempest be given an ability that turns its attack into an AOE attack. Cooldown based.
Mothership Core is a godsend for Protoss, it will fix their early game problems.
Oracle is pretty awesome, too bad its Invisibility ability is easily countered by... ANY AIR UNIT. Seriously it has such low hp that 1 volley from AA units will kill it as it can't move while channeling invis. Only useful if you rush it early game. Then Protoss becomes an untouchable beast... especially with Mship core's Purify and Energy Refill.
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On August 15 2012 02:38 ArcticRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 02:34 Tom Cruise wrote:
people have to stop using the word "micro intensive", units are as micro intensive as you make them. if you dont micro ur units, chances are you'll lose them, goes for every unit in the game, regardless of which are easier to micro. Take ling baneling vs ling baneling. If you micro them perfectly you'll have an immense advantage ; but you'll have to get your 600 APM rolling. Take marauder vs marauder (A quite accurate model for Warhound vs Warhound). If you micro perfectly it won't change much, and there's not much you can do (Focus fire woohoo) That's what micro intensive means. Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 02:38 darkness wrote:On August 15 2012 02:35 ACrow wrote:
I think it should change, because besides of the points you mentioned in the op, it is also a unit that is useless in a matchup (vs Z, due to obvious lack of mech units). A unit that makes not the least sense in one of the matchups is not a good idea. It's ok if a unit isn't used in only one match-up. It's happened to BW as well. TvZ - bio, PvT - mech. It's still a pretty big design flaw. It's unavoidable, and happened to BW - but you shouldn't actively push it, and making it that way is actively pushing it.
that was a horrible analogy, i'm sorry. if you micro marauder vs marauder perfectly you'll end up with 10 marauders at 6 hp left and 10 dead marauders.
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LgNkami you have no idea what you're talking about.
the Warhound looks extremely boring, and its stats are soooo much better than 2 marines (the same supply) that it's not even funny. it's the most effective unit as of now vs ground (not just mechanical, everything.). there would be no reason to build anything vs ground than warhounds and tanks, and since you don't have to micro warhounds i guess people wouldn't be using tanks. right now it is a marauder with ridiculous stats for the same supply.
if they nerf it, it will be an unit with normal stats, that is boring and looks bad.
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On August 15 2012 03:07 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 02:57 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 02:53 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:33 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:25 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:11 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:08 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:05 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 15 2012 02:04 ArcticRaven wrote:
[quote]
Sarcasm I hope. why so? 'Cause you know, debating with arguments and reasoning, you know, all that stuff..... I still have a glimmer of hope. On August 15 2012 02:06 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:04 Grapefruit wrote:
With no AA there is literally no reason to build them, instead of tanks. blinks stalkers and immortals are 2 good reasons In that case, you won't want Tanks - you'll want Warhounds instead of them. And tankless mech isn't mech - it's just like Bio, but without micro, which isn't what I want as spectator or player. ?? silly argument Can you read the whole post please ? Warhounds and tanks aren't complementary. So you'll have Thor/Hellion/Warhound - a mechanical army that behaves just like Bio except it is microless. I'll redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325On August 15 2012 02:13 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 01:48 Thaniri wrote:
Dakim literally said that the warhound and hellion are being designed to be a-move units in the anaheim interview.
They just don't realize how stupid that is. I dont know why everyone is jumping on this bandwagon... Two of the three races right now ARE predominantly a-move armies so this isnt really anything that's stupid or different. But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL. You made alot of assumptions for something that isn't even on the beta. First off you don't know the composition and the meta games in the HOTS, but keep this in mind. Mech without tank is simply a bioball that is 1) slower 2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical) 3) cannot be healed. Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Secondly, mech describes composition where your majority of food is comes from the factory. It has nothing to do with tank or not. Lastly, warhound is more apm intensive then people give credits. Having to spam haywire (depending on how many you got) every 6 seconds is not light on the apm counts. on top of tank focus fire, positioning, hellion controls etc Spamming every 6 seconds during fights ? That's not very hard. It's super easy in fact. As for the rest - I'll just redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325 . What makes mech interesting is not that the units are mechanical. It is that it's a completely different way to play the game. 1) slower
2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical)
3) cannot be healed.
Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Why not ? I haven't had the impression were even remotely good against zealots, and Blizz just gave Terran a great counter. Tankless mech is also faster as you do not have to leapfrog, and Warhounds can't be healed either. On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:
But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL.
Right, but the rest of the terran units are still VERY micro intensive. They can (and probably should) still work on adding some micro into the other races even if they add the warhound to the terran army. The more micro (for everyone) the better. This game doesn't need a second marauder or colossus. On August 15 2012 02:31 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 02:30 Bjoernzor wrote:
The warhound is a marauder that comes out of the factory, go figue It has more life and more range... It is not economical to run marauders into a tank line to try and break it. I really, really dont think that most of the complainers have tried using it yet. More life and more range doesn't make a unit play differently. Its really a bothersome replying to split up quotes, but don't ever underestimate the micro it needs to fire haywire every 6 seconds. Mouseover selection and accuracy is definitely something not to be underestimated, especially when you have to do it for every single warhound you produced. I gave you a reason why pure battlehellion/warhound won't work if you produce them purely. Because you are still not going to beat the late game firepower of the protoss units without having massive aoe dmg of your own. Not a god damn chance. your units is going to melt in the face of protoss late game without tank support Why don't you go find a terran/protoss, and go see how awesome your battlehellion/warhound composition fair against late game protoss. Have fun and there is nothing wrong with marauders. Did marauders make terran bio 1-a or made them not micro intensive? Last I check Terran is still an incredibly APM intensive race regardless of having marauders or not Maybe up to gm it'd be considered as micro but for ppl who played bw it's just a huge joke... mouse accuracy is miles harder in ghosts/ht battles.... but you're still going to have ghosts/ht battles or tanks/ht battles. If you have 6 warhounds, that is 6 haywire per rounds, or equivalent of 60 APM to control haywires perfectly. I'd say that is quite taxing if you want to manually control them perfectly.
Considering the match up we're talking about in less than 10s the battle is finished anyway once you engage. you've to do it twice and you'd just use smart casting since 30 dmg isn't going to kill anything mechanical, which is like 5apm for a group of 10 warhound...
There is really 0 need to control them individually
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On August 15 2012 03:12 transcendent one wrote:
LgNkami you have no idea what you're talking about.
the Warhound looks extremely boring, and its stats are soooo much better than 2 marines (the same supply) that it's not even funny. it's the most effective unit as of now vs ground (not just mechanical, everything.). there would be no reason to build anything vs ground than warhounds and tanks, and since you don't have to micro warhounds i guess people wouldn't be using tanks. right now it is a marauder with ridiculous stats for the same supply.
if they nerf it, it will be an unit with normal stats, that is boring and looks bad.
THE UNIT IS NOT COMPLETE! do you not understand that? It is not complete.
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On August 15 2012 03:18 LgNKami wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:12 transcendent one wrote:
LgNkami you have no idea what you're talking about.
the Warhound looks extremely boring, and its stats are soooo much better than 2 marines (the same supply) that it's not even funny. it's the most effective unit as of now vs ground (not just mechanical, everything.). there would be no reason to build anything vs ground than warhounds and tanks, and since you don't have to micro warhounds i guess people wouldn't be using tanks. right now it is a marauder with ridiculous stats for the same supply.
if they nerf it, it will be an unit with normal stats, that is boring and looks bad. THE UNIT IS NOT COMPLETE! do you not understand that? It is not complete.
that's why he wrote if
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On August 15 2012 03:12 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:07 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:57 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 02:53 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:33 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:25 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:11 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:08 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:05 Tom Cruise wrote:
[quote]
why so? 'Cause you know, debating with arguments and reasoning, you know, all that stuff..... I still have a glimmer of hope. On August 15 2012 02:06 iky43210 wrote:
[quote]
blinks stalkers and immortals are 2 good reasons In that case, you won't want Tanks - you'll want Warhounds instead of them. And tankless mech isn't mech - it's just like Bio, but without micro, which isn't what I want as spectator or player. ?? silly argument Can you read the whole post please ? Warhounds and tanks aren't complementary. So you'll have Thor/Hellion/Warhound - a mechanical army that behaves just like Bio except it is microless. I'll redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325On August 15 2012 02:13 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 01:48 Thaniri wrote:
Dakim literally said that the warhound and hellion are being designed to be a-move units in the anaheim interview.
They just don't realize how stupid that is. I dont know why everyone is jumping on this bandwagon... Two of the three races right now ARE predominantly a-move armies so this isnt really anything that's stupid or different. But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL. You made alot of assumptions for something that isn't even on the beta. First off you don't know the composition and the meta games in the HOTS, but keep this in mind. Mech without tank is simply a bioball that is 1) slower 2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical) 3) cannot be healed. Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Secondly, mech describes composition where your majority of food is comes from the factory. It has nothing to do with tank or not. Lastly, warhound is more apm intensive then people give credits. Having to spam haywire (depending on how many you got) every 6 seconds is not light on the apm counts. on top of tank focus fire, positioning, hellion controls etc Spamming every 6 seconds during fights ? That's not very hard. It's super easy in fact. As for the rest - I'll just redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325 . What makes mech interesting is not that the units are mechanical. It is that it's a completely different way to play the game. 1) slower
2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical)
3) cannot be healed.
Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Why not ? I haven't had the impression were even remotely good against zealots, and Blizz just gave Terran a great counter. Tankless mech is also faster as you do not have to leapfrog, and Warhounds can't be healed either. On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:
But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL.
Right, but the rest of the terran units are still VERY micro intensive. They can (and probably should) still work on adding some micro into the other races even if they add the warhound to the terran army. The more micro (for everyone) the better. This game doesn't need a second marauder or colossus. On August 15 2012 02:31 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 02:30 Bjoernzor wrote:
The warhound is a marauder that comes out of the factory, go figue It has more life and more range... It is not economical to run marauders into a tank line to try and break it. I really, really dont think that most of the complainers have tried using it yet. More life and more range doesn't make a unit play differently. Its really a bothersome replying to split up quotes, but don't ever underestimate the micro it needs to fire haywire every 6 seconds. Mouseover selection and accuracy is definitely something not to be underestimated, especially when you have to do it for every single warhound you produced. I gave you a reason why pure battlehellion/warhound won't work if you produce them purely. Because you are still not going to beat the late game firepower of the protoss units without having massive aoe dmg of your own. Not a god damn chance. your units is going to melt in the face of protoss late game without tank support Why don't you go find a terran/protoss, and go see how awesome your battlehellion/warhound composition fair against late game protoss. Have fun and there is nothing wrong with marauders. Did marauders make terran bio 1-a or made them not micro intensive? Last I check Terran is still an incredibly APM intensive race regardless of having marauders or not Maybe up to gm it'd be considered as micro but for ppl who played bw it's just a huge joke... mouse accuracy is miles harder in ghosts/ht battles.... but you're still going to have ghosts/ht battles or tanks/ht battles. If you have 6 warhounds, that is 6 haywire per rounds, or equivalent of 60 APM to control haywires perfectly. I'd say that is quite taxing if you want to manually control them perfectly. Considering the match up we're talking about in less than 10s the battle is finished anyway once you engage. you've to do it twice and you'd just use smart casting since 30 dmg isn't going to kill anything mechanical, which is like 5apm for a group of 10 warhound... There is really 0 need to control them individually
no battle is ever less than 10s. Unless you ram your army into siegelines
Immortal shield is 100, so that would require 3-4 haywire shots to deplete them so your tanks can actually do dmg. Or kill a few sentries / colossus. Haywire is nothing to scuff at.
and I don't get where you get 5apm from, but I see Blizzard envision warhound as the mech's answer to immortal and blink stalkers all-in. Tanks will still play a huge role on the matchup as warhound power (assuming mech becomes viable)
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On August 15 2012 03:20 Tom Cruise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:18 LgNKami wrote:On August 15 2012 03:12 transcendent one wrote:
LgNkami you have no idea what you're talking about.
the Warhound looks extremely boring, and its stats are soooo much better than 2 marines (the same supply) that it's not even funny. it's the most effective unit as of now vs ground (not just mechanical, everything.). there would be no reason to build anything vs ground than warhounds and tanks, and since you don't have to micro warhounds i guess people wouldn't be using tanks. right now it is a marauder with ridiculous stats for the same supply.
if they nerf it, it will be an unit with normal stats, that is boring and looks bad. THE UNIT IS NOT COMPLETE! do you not understand that? It is not complete. that's why he wrote if
huh? this will be my late input into this argument. I'm that if they do nerf the Warhound throughout the rest of alpha and beta stages, it will not be a dps nerf, it will be a cost nerf. As i've said before, the unit is not complete. I am 100% certain that the unit will cost more all around (minerals, gas, and supply).
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On August 15 2012 03:21 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:12 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 03:07 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:57 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 02:53 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:33 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:25 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:11 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:08 ArcticRaven wrote:
[quote]
'Cause you know, debating with arguments and reasoning, you know, all that stuff..... I still have a glimmer of hope.
[quote]
In that case, you won't want Tanks - you'll want Warhounds instead of them. And tankless mech isn't mech - it's just like Bio, but without micro, which isn't what I want as spectator or player. ?? silly argument Can you read the whole post please ? Warhounds and tanks aren't complementary. So you'll have Thor/Hellion/Warhound - a mechanical army that behaves just like Bio except it is microless. I'll redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325On August 15 2012 02:13 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 01:48 Thaniri wrote:
Dakim literally said that the warhound and hellion are being designed to be a-move units in the anaheim interview.
They just don't realize how stupid that is. I dont know why everyone is jumping on this bandwagon... Two of the three races right now ARE predominantly a-move armies so this isnt really anything that's stupid or different. But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL. You made alot of assumptions for something that isn't even on the beta. First off you don't know the composition and the meta games in the HOTS, but keep this in mind. Mech without tank is simply a bioball that is 1) slower 2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical) 3) cannot be healed. Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Secondly, mech describes composition where your majority of food is comes from the factory. It has nothing to do with tank or not. Lastly, warhound is more apm intensive then people give credits. Having to spam haywire (depending on how many you got) every 6 seconds is not light on the apm counts. on top of tank focus fire, positioning, hellion controls etc Spamming every 6 seconds during fights ? That's not very hard. It's super easy in fact. As for the rest - I'll just redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325 . What makes mech interesting is not that the units are mechanical. It is that it's a completely different way to play the game. 1) slower
2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical)
3) cannot be healed.
Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Why not ? I haven't had the impression were even remotely good against zealots, and Blizz just gave Terran a great counter. Tankless mech is also faster as you do not have to leapfrog, and Warhounds can't be healed either. On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:
But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL.
Right, but the rest of the terran units are still VERY micro intensive. They can (and probably should) still work on adding some micro into the other races even if they add the warhound to the terran army. The more micro (for everyone) the better. This game doesn't need a second marauder or colossus. On August 15 2012 02:31 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 02:30 Bjoernzor wrote:
The warhound is a marauder that comes out of the factory, go figue It has more life and more range... It is not economical to run marauders into a tank line to try and break it. I really, really dont think that most of the complainers have tried using it yet. More life and more range doesn't make a unit play differently. Its really a bothersome replying to split up quotes, but don't ever underestimate the micro it needs to fire haywire every 6 seconds. Mouseover selection and accuracy is definitely something not to be underestimated, especially when you have to do it for every single warhound you produced. I gave you a reason why pure battlehellion/warhound won't work if you produce them purely. Because you are still not going to beat the late game firepower of the protoss units without having massive aoe dmg of your own. Not a god damn chance. your units is going to melt in the face of protoss late game without tank support Why don't you go find a terran/protoss, and go see how awesome your battlehellion/warhound composition fair against late game protoss. Have fun and there is nothing wrong with marauders. Did marauders make terran bio 1-a or made them not micro intensive? Last I check Terran is still an incredibly APM intensive race regardless of having marauders or not Maybe up to gm it'd be considered as micro but for ppl who played bw it's just a huge joke... mouse accuracy is miles harder in ghosts/ht battles.... but you're still going to have ghosts/ht battles or tanks/ht battles. If you have 6 warhounds, that is 6 haywire per rounds, or equivalent of 60 APM to control haywires perfectly. I'd say that is quite taxing if you want to manually control them perfectly. Considering the match up we're talking about in less than 10s the battle is finished anyway once you engage. you've to do it twice and you'd just use smart casting since 30 dmg isn't going to kill anything mechanical, which is like 5apm for a group of 10 warhound... There is really 0 need to control them individually no battle is ever less than 10s. Unless you ram your army into siegelines Immortal shield is 100, so that would require 3-4 haywire shots to deplete them so your tanks can actually do dmg. Or kill a few sentries / colossus. Haywire is nothing to scuff at. and I don't get where you get 5apm from, but I see Blizzard envision warhound as the mech's answer to immortal and blink stalkers all-in. Tanks will still play a huge role on the matchup (assuming mech becomes viable)
nice fail on the maths, it'd take 10 missile to deplete an immortal shield, something so stupid when you've emp on the ghost... which already deals with the ht/sentries/archons, letting on target of choice, colossi who you'd want to one shot if you come close enough which requires 12warhounds, whom you're not going to use individually. It's just one button that you'd use every 6seconds for your warhound squad, hurray that's micro intensive XD
mech v P battle are finished in even less than 10s, either article cannons blow everything or the map army instantly evaporate, so much damage from both sides.
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to be honest ... when i started playing sc, the goliath was a unit i never ever wanted to build, because it was the ugliest unit i have ever seen. So the warhound fits this role pretty good.
Mech is also very hard to control, so they couldn't have added a micro unit. I think the missiles are a neat mechanic though, kinda like Zealots. You can use them on autocast and they are great, but people can abuse this. Plan A warp prims + probe fly in drop probe trigger the missiles that the noob left on autocast (1 stalker blinking in does the same, though instant kill by tanks is still a problem in both cases). Plan B wait till the immortals are in range fire the missiles and destroy the shields without losing damage.
Anti air ... viking, widow mine, thors and turrets with range and armor upgrade, thats plenty. (battle report terran had overmins deluxe). Microwise i like that option. Goliath was a move all the way too and some focus fire.
And lol fast I want my vultures back ... hellions are soooo slow.
Its still funny that people think amech doesn't feel like mech.
What i find really annoying is that hellions still seem to come out of factories as battle hellions. Apart from that i like the new additions to mech. And despite what people say, that is exactly what mech was missing to be able to compete imo. And sure they can make a unit look cool for some people. But there are people out there who like how the Atlas mech looks, something i never ever will understand.
Looking forward to the beta, will be funny to see the tempest changes, when people start to abuse the range in combination with storm and canons. Will be more annoying then broodlord infestor imo.
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On August 15 2012 03:25 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:21 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 03:12 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 03:07 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:57 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 02:53 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:33 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:25 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:11 iky43210 wrote:
[quote]
?? silly argument
Can you read the whole post please ? Warhounds and tanks aren't complementary. So you'll have Thor/Hellion/Warhound - a mechanical army that behaves just like Bio except it is microless. I'll redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325On August 15 2012 02:13 CaptainCrush wrote:
[quote]
I dont know why everyone is jumping on this bandwagon... Two of the three races right now ARE predominantly a-move armies so this isnt really anything that's stupid or different. But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL. You made alot of assumptions for something that isn't even on the beta. First off you don't know the composition and the meta games in the HOTS, but keep this in mind. Mech without tank is simply a bioball that is 1) slower 2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical) 3) cannot be healed. Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Secondly, mech describes composition where your majority of food is comes from the factory. It has nothing to do with tank or not. Lastly, warhound is more apm intensive then people give credits. Having to spam haywire (depending on how many you got) every 6 seconds is not light on the apm counts. on top of tank focus fire, positioning, hellion controls etc Spamming every 6 seconds during fights ? That's not very hard. It's super easy in fact. As for the rest - I'll just redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325 . What makes mech interesting is not that the units are mechanical. It is that it's a completely different way to play the game. 1) slower
2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical)
3) cannot be healed.
Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Why not ? I haven't had the impression were even remotely good against zealots, and Blizz just gave Terran a great counter. Tankless mech is also faster as you do not have to leapfrog, and Warhounds can't be healed either. On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:
But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL.
Right, but the rest of the terran units are still VERY micro intensive. They can (and probably should) still work on adding some micro into the other races even if they add the warhound to the terran army. The more micro (for everyone) the better. This game doesn't need a second marauder or colossus. On August 15 2012 02:31 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 02:30 Bjoernzor wrote:
The warhound is a marauder that comes out of the factory, go figue It has more life and more range... It is not economical to run marauders into a tank line to try and break it. I really, really dont think that most of the complainers have tried using it yet. More life and more range doesn't make a unit play differently. Its really a bothersome replying to split up quotes, but don't ever underestimate the micro it needs to fire haywire every 6 seconds. Mouseover selection and accuracy is definitely something not to be underestimated, especially when you have to do it for every single warhound you produced. I gave you a reason why pure battlehellion/warhound won't work if you produce them purely. Because you are still not going to beat the late game firepower of the protoss units without having massive aoe dmg of your own. Not a god damn chance. your units is going to melt in the face of protoss late game without tank support Why don't you go find a terran/protoss, and go see how awesome your battlehellion/warhound composition fair against late game protoss. Have fun and there is nothing wrong with marauders. Did marauders make terran bio 1-a or made them not micro intensive? Last I check Terran is still an incredibly APM intensive race regardless of having marauders or not Maybe up to gm it'd be considered as micro but for ppl who played bw it's just a huge joke... mouse accuracy is miles harder in ghosts/ht battles.... but you're still going to have ghosts/ht battles or tanks/ht battles. If you have 6 warhounds, that is 6 haywire per rounds, or equivalent of 60 APM to control haywires perfectly. I'd say that is quite taxing if you want to manually control them perfectly. Considering the match up we're talking about in less than 10s the battle is finished anyway once you engage. you've to do it twice and you'd just use smart casting since 30 dmg isn't going to kill anything mechanical, which is like 5apm for a group of 10 warhound... There is really 0 need to control them individually no battle is ever less than 10s. Unless you ram your army into siegelines Immortal shield is 100, so that would require 3-4 haywire shots to deplete them so your tanks can actually do dmg. Or kill a few sentries / colossus. Haywire is nothing to scuff at. and I don't get where you get 5apm from, but I see Blizzard envision warhound as the mech's answer to immortal and blink stalkers all-in. Tanks will still play a huge role on the matchup (assuming mech becomes viable) nice fail on the maths, it'd take 10 missile to deplete an immortal shield, something so stupid when you've emp on the ghost... which already deals with the ht/sentries/archons, letting on target of choice, colossi who you'd want to one shot if you come close enough which requires 12warhounds, whom you're not going to use individually. It's just one button that you'd use every 6seconds for your warhound squad, hurray that's micro intensive XD
haywire bypass immortal harden shield, because it is a spell.
You're not going to magically pop out ghost anytime soon, not until late game, when you go mech route.
I already said 60 APM to control haywire is nothing to scuff at. in between warhound far range atk and haywire spells, there is no reason whatsoever for that shit to be autocasted so it can hit some useless stalkers, battle hellions, or some other crap
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On August 15 2012 03:26 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:25 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 03:21 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 03:12 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 03:07 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:57 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 02:53 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:33 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:25 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:[quote] Can you read the whole post please ? Warhounds and tanks aren't complementary. So you'll have Thor/Hellion/Warhound - a mechanical army that behaves just like Bio except it is microless. I'll redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325[quote] But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL. You made alot of assumptions for something that isn't even on the beta. First off you don't know the composition and the meta games in the HOTS, but keep this in mind. Mech without tank is simply a bioball that is 1) slower 2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical) 3) cannot be healed. Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Secondly, mech describes composition where your majority of food is comes from the factory. It has nothing to do with tank or not. Lastly, warhound is more apm intensive then people give credits. Having to spam haywire (depending on how many you got) every 6 seconds is not light on the apm counts. on top of tank focus fire, positioning, hellion controls etc Spamming every 6 seconds during fights ? That's not very hard. It's super easy in fact. As for the rest - I'll just redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325 . What makes mech interesting is not that the units are mechanical. It is that it's a completely different way to play the game. 1) slower
2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical)
3) cannot be healed.
Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Why not ? I haven't had the impression were even remotely good against zealots, and Blizz just gave Terran a great counter. Tankless mech is also faster as you do not have to leapfrog, and Warhounds can't be healed either. On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:
But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL.
Right, but the rest of the terran units are still VERY micro intensive. They can (and probably should) still work on adding some micro into the other races even if they add the warhound to the terran army. The more micro (for everyone) the better. This game doesn't need a second marauder or colossus. On August 15 2012 02:31 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 02:30 Bjoernzor wrote:
The warhound is a marauder that comes out of the factory, go figue It has more life and more range... It is not economical to run marauders into a tank line to try and break it. I really, really dont think that most of the complainers have tried using it yet. More life and more range doesn't make a unit play differently. Its really a bothersome replying to split up quotes, but don't ever underestimate the micro it needs to fire haywire every 6 seconds. Mouseover selection and accuracy is definitely something not to be underestimated, especially when you have to do it for every single warhound you produced. I gave you a reason why pure battlehellion/warhound won't work if you produce them purely. Because you are still not going to beat the late game firepower of the protoss units without having massive aoe dmg of your own. Not a god damn chance. your units is going to melt in the face of protoss late game without tank support Why don't you go find a terran/protoss, and go see how awesome your battlehellion/warhound composition fair against late game protoss. Have fun and there is nothing wrong with marauders. Did marauders make terran bio 1-a or made them not micro intensive? Last I check Terran is still an incredibly APM intensive race regardless of having marauders or not Maybe up to gm it'd be considered as micro but for ppl who played bw it's just a huge joke... mouse accuracy is miles harder in ghosts/ht battles.... but you're still going to have ghosts/ht battles or tanks/ht battles. If you have 6 warhounds, that is 6 haywire per rounds, or equivalent of 60 APM to control haywires perfectly. I'd say that is quite taxing if you want to manually control them perfectly. Considering the match up we're talking about in less than 10s the battle is finished anyway once you engage. you've to do it twice and you'd just use smart casting since 30 dmg isn't going to kill anything mechanical, which is like 5apm for a group of 10 warhound... There is really 0 need to control them individually no battle is ever less than 10s. Unless you ram your army into siegelines Immortal shield is 100, so that would require 3-4 haywire shots to deplete them so your tanks can actually do dmg. Or kill a few sentries / colossus. Haywire is nothing to scuff at. and I don't get where you get 5apm from, but I see Blizzard envision warhound as the mech's answer to immortal and blink stalkers all-in. Tanks will still play a huge role on the matchup (assuming mech becomes viable) nice fail on the maths, it'd take 10 missile to deplete an immortal shield, something so stupid when you've emp on the ghost... which already deals with the ht/sentries/archons, letting on target of choice, colossi who you'd want to one shot if you come close enough which requires 12warhounds, whom you're not going to use individually. It's just one button that you'd use every 6seconds for your warhound squad, hurray that's micro intensive XD haywire bypass immortal harden shield, because it is a spell. You're not going to magically pop out ghost anytime soon, not until late game, when you go mech route.
Watch Hack play and come back. Ghosts destroy half of P units, it's just stupid to not use them.
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I have no problems with the war hound requiring no micro. Anyone who plays terran will know the pains it takes to micro in TvP and how perfect the engagement has to go in a maxed out army situation. So I would like to THANK blizzard for giving a unit that is good anti mech and would request it to remain non microable.
PPl suggesting that the war hound should be microable should consider that:
*Siege tanks require considerable microing AND timing. It takes a lot of TIME to siege/unsiege. You have to pick the right number of tanks to deplay at the right time when you move slowly forward in true terran turtle style.
*Microing ur vikings for maximum affect (positioning AND kiting). Viking splits for avoiding storm/chain fungals.
*Ghosts for EMP (In TvP and TvZ...I guess although no one uses them anymore in TvZ)
*Battle helions to engage in the right mode ("kiting mode" and battle mode)
Is that not enough micro for 1 maxed out army engagement?? Ppl requestin more micro are sadistic bastards. Nuff said 
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
One huge problem with it is that its designed (and will most probably be balanced around) doing bonus and having a skill vs Mechanical, so it is gonna be useless vs Zerg.
Which in a kinda perveted way is a good thing, cause I don't want it to be in HotS at all, so if its bad enough to not be used thats actually a bonus.
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On August 15 2012 03:26 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:26 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 03:25 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 03:21 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 03:12 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 03:07 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:57 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 02:53 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:33 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:25 iky43210 wrote:
[quote]
You made alot of assumptions for something that isn't even on the beta. First off you don't know the composition and the meta games in the HOTS, but keep this in mind. Mech without tank is simply a bioball that is
1) slower
2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical)
3) cannot be healed.
Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work.
Secondly, mech describes composition where your majority of food is comes from the factory. It has nothing to do with tank or not.
Lastly, warhound is more apm intensive then people give credits. Having to spam haywire (depending on how many you got) every 6 seconds is not light on the apm counts. on top of tank focus fire, positioning, hellion controls etc
Spamming every 6 seconds during fights ? That's not very hard. It's super easy in fact. As for the rest - I'll just redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325 . What makes mech interesting is not that the units are mechanical. It is that it's a completely different way to play the game. 1) slower
2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical)
3) cannot be healed.
Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Why not ? I haven't had the impression were even remotely good against zealots, and Blizz just gave Terran a great counter. Tankless mech is also faster as you do not have to leapfrog, and Warhounds can't be healed either. [quote]
Right, but the rest of the terran units are still VERY micro intensive. They can (and probably should) still work on adding some micro into the other races even if they add the warhound to the terran army. The more micro (for everyone) the better. This game doesn't need a second marauder or colossus. On August 15 2012 02:31 CaptainCrush wrote:
[quote]
It has more life and more range...
It is not economical to run marauders into a tank line to try and break it. I really, really dont think that most of the complainers have tried using it yet. More life and more range doesn't make a unit play differently. Its really a bothersome replying to split up quotes, but don't ever underestimate the micro it needs to fire haywire every 6 seconds. Mouseover selection and accuracy is definitely something not to be underestimated, especially when you have to do it for every single warhound you produced. I gave you a reason why pure battlehellion/warhound won't work if you produce them purely. Because you are still not going to beat the late game firepower of the protoss units without having massive aoe dmg of your own. Not a god damn chance. your units is going to melt in the face of protoss late game without tank support Why don't you go find a terran/protoss, and go see how awesome your battlehellion/warhound composition fair against late game protoss. Have fun and there is nothing wrong with marauders. Did marauders make terran bio 1-a or made them not micro intensive? Last I check Terran is still an incredibly APM intensive race regardless of having marauders or not Maybe up to gm it'd be considered as micro but for ppl who played bw it's just a huge joke... mouse accuracy is miles harder in ghosts/ht battles.... but you're still going to have ghosts/ht battles or tanks/ht battles. If you have 6 warhounds, that is 6 haywire per rounds, or equivalent of 60 APM to control haywires perfectly. I'd say that is quite taxing if you want to manually control them perfectly. Considering the match up we're talking about in less than 10s the battle is finished anyway once you engage. you've to do it twice and you'd just use smart casting since 30 dmg isn't going to kill anything mechanical, which is like 5apm for a group of 10 warhound... There is really 0 need to control them individually no battle is ever less than 10s. Unless you ram your army into siegelines Immortal shield is 100, so that would require 3-4 haywire shots to deplete them so your tanks can actually do dmg. Or kill a few sentries / colossus. Haywire is nothing to scuff at. and I don't get where you get 5apm from, but I see Blizzard envision warhound as the mech's answer to immortal and blink stalkers all-in. Tanks will still play a huge role on the matchup (assuming mech becomes viable) nice fail on the maths, it'd take 10 missile to deplete an immortal shield, something so stupid when you've emp on the ghost... which already deals with the ht/sentries/archons, letting on target of choice, colossi who you'd want to one shot if you come close enough which requires 12warhounds, whom you're not going to use individually. It's just one button that you'd use every 6seconds for your warhound squad, hurray that's micro intensive XD haywire bypass immortal harden shield, because it is a spell. You're not going to magically pop out ghost anytime soon, not until late game, when you go mech route. Watch Hack play and come back. Ghosts destroy half of P units, it's just stupid to not use them.
I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about anymore. Since when was the last time mech was actually used against protoss in high level of game play? (beside some obscure all-in timing, which are also all figured out).
Realistically you can't and won't have the facilities to produce a strong mech force AND ghosts in early or mid game. HOTS won't change that, due to different tech and production facilities. Ghosts may/will be used in HOTS, but they won't appear until late mid game when you go mech route
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On August 15 2012 02:02 ArcticRaven wrote:Arguments ?
It looks cool and shit.
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On August 15 2012 03:28 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:26 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 03:26 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 03:25 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 03:21 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 03:12 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 03:07 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:57 sAsImre wrote:On August 15 2012 02:53 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:33 ArcticRaven wrote:[quote] Spamming every 6 seconds during fights ? That's not very hard. It's super easy in fact. As for the rest - I'll just redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325 . What makes mech interesting is not that the units are mechanical. It is that it's a completely different way to play the game. [quote] Why not ? I haven't had the impression were even remotely good against zealots, and Blizz just gave Terran a great counter. Tankless mech is also faster as you do not have to leapfrog, and Warhounds can't be healed either. [quote] The more micro (for everyone) the better. This game doesn't need a second marauder or colossus. [quote] More life and more range doesn't make a unit play differently. Its really a bothersome replying to split up quotes, but don't ever underestimate the micro it needs to fire haywire every 6 seconds. Mouseover selection and accuracy is definitely something not to be underestimated, especially when you have to do it for every single warhound you produced. I gave you a reason why pure battlehellion/warhound won't work if you produce them purely. Because you are still not going to beat the late game firepower of the protoss units without having massive aoe dmg of your own. Not a god damn chance. your units is going to melt in the face of protoss late game without tank support Why don't you go find a terran/protoss, and go see how awesome your battlehellion/warhound composition fair against late game protoss. Have fun and there is nothing wrong with marauders. Did marauders make terran bio 1-a or made them not micro intensive? Last I check Terran is still an incredibly APM intensive race regardless of having marauders or not Maybe up to gm it'd be considered as micro but for ppl who played bw it's just a huge joke... mouse accuracy is miles harder in ghosts/ht battles.... but you're still going to have ghosts/ht battles or tanks/ht battles. If you have 6 warhounds, that is 6 haywire per rounds, or equivalent of 60 APM to control haywires perfectly. I'd say that is quite taxing if you want to manually control them perfectly. Considering the match up we're talking about in less than 10s the battle is finished anyway once you engage. you've to do it twice and you'd just use smart casting since 30 dmg isn't going to kill anything mechanical, which is like 5apm for a group of 10 warhound... There is really 0 need to control them individually no battle is ever less than 10s. Unless you ram your army into siegelines Immortal shield is 100, so that would require 3-4 haywire shots to deplete them so your tanks can actually do dmg. Or kill a few sentries / colossus. Haywire is nothing to scuff at. and I don't get where you get 5apm from, but I see Blizzard envision warhound as the mech's answer to immortal and blink stalkers all-in. Tanks will still play a huge role on the matchup (assuming mech becomes viable) nice fail on the maths, it'd take 10 missile to deplete an immortal shield, something so stupid when you've emp on the ghost... which already deals with the ht/sentries/archons, letting on target of choice, colossi who you'd want to one shot if you come close enough which requires 12warhounds, whom you're not going to use individually. It's just one button that you'd use every 6seconds for your warhound squad, hurray that's micro intensive XD haywire bypass immortal harden shield, because it is a spell. You're not going to magically pop out ghost anytime soon, not until late game, when you go mech route. Watch Hack play and come back. Ghosts destroy half of P units, it's just stupid to not use them. I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about anymore. Since when was the last time mech was actually used against protoss in high level of game play? (beside some obscure all-in timing, which are also all figured out). Realistically you can't and won't have the facilities to produce a strong mech force AND ghosts in early or mid game. HOTS won't change that, due to different tech and production facilities. Ghosts may/will be used in HOTS, but they won't appear until late mid game when you go mech route
Hack vs Lure, Hack vs Creator the TSL4 qualifier that Creator won. You don't know what you're talking about that's all since you don't have the necessary resources to continue this discussion
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Ugly. A move unit. No a-air. Doesn't feel mech.
oh man, you described it ALL
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EPT
