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On August 15 2012 02:26 johnnywup wrote:
it's just a marauder built out of a factory...has to go
Pretty much sums it up... Let's give a marauder a bigger suit more damage vs mech(Wait isn't all of protoss mech? No they still have Zealots! Oh good at least protoss will be able to do something vs this new "mech" ....Don't forget you've got battle hellions to deal with those annoying zealots >_>)
Of course everything could change since the game is still in Alpha but it looks like they are just saying here Terran you get to play with a 1A deathball now >_<
I can only hope that things will change by beta and the final release.
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On August 15 2012 02:35 ACrow wrote:
I think it should change, because besides of the points you mentioned in the op, it is also a unit that is useless in a matchup (vs Z, due to obvious lack of mech units). A unit that makes not the least sense in one of the matchups is not a good idea.
It's ok if a unit isn't used in only one match-up. It's happened to BW as well. TvZ - bio, PvT - mech.
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I don't really mind the design, but I do hope the ability becomes microable.
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On August 15 2012 02:34 Tom Cruise wrote:
people have to stop using the word "micro intensive", units are as micro intensive as you make them. if you dont micro ur units, chances are you'll lose them, goes for every unit in the game, regardless of which are easier to micro.
Take ling baneling vs ling baneling. If you micro them perfectly you'll have an immense advantage ; but you'll have to get your 600 APM rolling. Take marauder vs marauder (A quite accurate model for Warhound vs Warhound). If you micro perfectly it won't change much, and there's not much you can do (Focus fire woohoo) That's what micro intensive means.
On August 15 2012 02:38 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 02:35 ACrow wrote:
I think it should change, because besides of the points you mentioned in the op, it is also a unit that is useless in a matchup (vs Z, due to obvious lack of mech units). A unit that makes not the least sense in one of the matchups is not a good idea. It's ok if a unit isn't used in only one match-up. It's happened to BW as well. TvZ - bio, PvT - mech.
It's still a pretty big design flaw. It's unavoidable, and happened to BW - but you shouldn't actively push it, and making it that way is actively pushing it.
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On August 15 2012 02:36 TheRealNanMan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 02:26 johnnywup wrote:
it's just a marauder built out of a factory...has to go Pretty much sums it up... Let's give a marauder a bigger suit more damage vs mech(Wait isn't all of protoss mech? No they still have Zealots! Oh good at least protoss will be able to do something vs this new "mech" ....Don't forget you've got battle hellions to deal with those annoying zealots >_>) Of course everything could change since the game is still in Alpha but it looks like they are just saying here Terran you get to play with a 1A deathball now >_< I can only hope that things will change by beta and the final release.
More protoss complaining... The warhound cannot shoot air, is not massive (you still have phoenix) and you get this new awesome airship that can shoot 22 range.
Even if you dont currently like the DPS or whatever on the tempest, it can change quite a bit before launch. I highly doubt that the warhound will ever get an air attack. It may change the way you play the matchup but even that goes towards what you guys want in a new and different game.
Seriously guys, try the HOTS custom map. I cannot stress enough how inaccurate most of these complaints are.
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1. It's ugly
2. Very A-Click like, making it not very useful to micro
3. Doesn't feel very mech like
4. No AA
This
I said exactly this a couple months ago and nobody gave a shit.
What Blizzard should realize is that ALL big units are bad because they take so much space (and usually more supply) soo that you don't have space to micro anything. EVERYTHING on the ground that is bigger than a siege tank is bad for the competitive aspect of the game.
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On August 15 2012 02:40 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 02:36 TheRealNanMan wrote:On August 15 2012 02:26 johnnywup wrote:
it's just a marauder built out of a factory...has to go Pretty much sums it up... Let's give a marauder a bigger suit more damage vs mech(Wait isn't all of protoss mech? No they still have Zealots! Oh good at least protoss will be able to do something vs this new "mech" ....Don't forget you've got battle hellions to deal with those annoying zealots >_>) Of course everything could change since the game is still in Alpha but it looks like they are just saying here Terran you get to play with a 1A deathball now >_< I can only hope that things will change by beta and the final release. More protoss complaining... The warhound cannot shoot air, is not massive (you still have phoenix) and you get this new awesome airship that can shoot 22 range. Even if you dont currently like the DPS or whatever on the tempest, it can change quite a bit before launch. I highly doubt that the warhound will ever get an air attack. It may change the way you play the matchup but even that goes towards what you guys want in a new and different game. Seriously guys, try the HOTS custom map. I cannot stress enough how inaccurate most of these complaints are.
I play zerg and terran, and have played that map. The Warhound is a factory marauder.
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You know the Haywire Missiles auto-target mechanical units? I feel sorry for Terran and Protoss mineral lines.
Also how could they make a unit completely useless against the Zerg race? Warhounds have no purpose in TvZ, and they were originally supposed to replace Thors with superior speed and AA vs Mutas. Can't believe Blizz removed AA...
Widow Mines still look op.
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On August 15 2012 02:01 LgNKami wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 01:48 Jimmeh wrote:
I don't know why people think it's just going to be another "A-click" unit; if anything it'll be fairly micro intensive.
You have to realise that if you have its ability on autocast then it will autotarget units that aren't necessarily the best units to target. Most pro players will probably have autocast disabled and then constantly have to manually cast it on higher priority units like colossus, immortals etc. as opposed to stalkers/sentries. ^^ I will be doing this myself. i would hate haywire to be auto-casted on zealots personally because it would be wasted. Sure it would do damage but, it wont be as effective as it would vs a stalker, immortal, or collosus.
Guys, I think the warhound haywire only targets mechanical units. It's super noob friendly.
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Has anybody else noticed that the hellhound is a marauder in a bigger suit? It's not a new unit.
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Its kind of funny that Blizzard is just taking units from BW, and tweeking them a tad, while making millions off it.
Anyways, I think they unit model is ugly, and would rather use a marauder that can be healed with my marines.
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On August 15 2012 01:50 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 01:48 Thaniri wrote:
Dakim literally said that the warhound and hellion are being designed to be a-move units in the anaheim interview.
They just don't realize how stupid that is. Current Terran units already require lots of micro to maximize effectiveness, what's wrong with having a couple a-click units in the mix? You really want to make Terran players micro even more than they already have to?
Rant, enter if you dare.
+ Show Spoiler +
We thought White-Ra's face was everywhere, it's rather apparent low leaguers are EVERYWHERE. Let me tell you why what you said was so extremely stupid, firstly the only high end micro intensive units for Terran would be the bio ball, Terran mech requires much more positioning and less Micro. (Goody is a key example before nerfs, he could 120 APM his army around the map and just win) so when you ask sarcastically if someone wants terran players to micro even more than they do, it's a loaded question because it actually will have no affect on the Terran player having to "micro even more than they already have to". Then you are setting a very stupid premise, you're saying make units easy because they're already hard... Great Blizzard, let's turn this game into CnC 3 so all of the really bad players can feel good about winning.
No wonder Blizzard isn't making this game better and that SC2 may as well get thrown in the dumpster with the release of these units because they fundamentally change the game into a rolling ball of death...
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The warhound is super broken right now but I'm sure they'll fix it. Right now if you don't know how to play terran, just mass warhounds and you can't do bad. Seriously its that good.
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On August 15 2012 02:45 VPVanek wrote:
Its kind of funny that Blizzard is just taking units from BW, and tweeking them a tad, while making millions off it.
Anyways, I think they unit model is ugly, and would rather use a marauder that can be healed with my marines.
Yeah, I'd be fine with BW reskins or new units - but selling the same concept with a different name is just lame.
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On August 15 2012 02:42 ArcticRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 02:40 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 02:36 TheRealNanMan wrote:On August 15 2012 02:26 johnnywup wrote:
it's just a marauder built out of a factory...has to go Pretty much sums it up... Let's give a marauder a bigger suit more damage vs mech(Wait isn't all of protoss mech? No they still have Zealots! Oh good at least protoss will be able to do something vs this new "mech" ....Don't forget you've got battle hellions to deal with those annoying zealots >_>) Of course everything could change since the game is still in Alpha but it looks like they are just saying here Terran you get to play with a 1A deathball now >_< I can only hope that things will change by beta and the final release. More protoss complaining... The warhound cannot shoot air, is not massive (you still have phoenix) and you get this new awesome airship that can shoot 22 range. Even if you dont currently like the DPS or whatever on the tempest, it can change quite a bit before launch. I highly doubt that the warhound will ever get an air attack. It may change the way you play the matchup but even that goes towards what you guys want in a new and different game. Seriously guys, try the HOTS custom map. I cannot stress enough how inaccurate most of these complaints are. I play zerg and terran, and have played that map. The Warhound is a factory marauder.
Exactly. I hate when people who don't have enough imagination to see how this units would play out speak their opinions (Because any person who is more or less an analytical mind knows that this unit concept is bad for competition). Also any unit having such favorable smart-firing that favors easy to use play is bad.
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I don't know why people say the Warhound is an a-move unit. Even it's basic attack requires as much micro as a unit like an immortal, but you also have a greater variance in effectiveness you can achieve due to the haywire missiles. You'll need to control them carefully to make sure that you are in range of a mech unit at all times, and moreso to optimally focus fire units. It's essentially twice as complex as most regular units.
I don't think it's too big at all. I think most units are too small, but I think it's size makes it act like an immortal. You don't want too many of them, cause it's too hard to get them all attacking at once (moreso even than an immortal because of haywire missiles) which means you'll still have pretty tank-heavy compositions and warhounds, while they're damage dealing units, will act as only support units, like the immortal.
Not too happy with the unit model, though. It's too tall and weird looking.
I also don't like how the warhound is totally useless vs zerg. It would be nice if you could, maybe, fit them with different special weapons so you could have like an anti-psionic missile or something else that would make them cost-effective against some zerg units.
I really hate battle hellions. It seems really weird that a unit could transform and change the amount of HP it has. The hellion's attack style was so cool before, but this is just kinda dumb.
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On August 15 2012 01:54 ArcticRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 01:48 Jimmeh wrote:
I don't know why people think it's just going to be another "A-click" unit; if anything it'll be fairly micro intensive.
You have to realise that if you have its ability on autocast then it will autotarget units that aren't necessarily the best units to target. Most pro players will probably have autocast disabled and then constantly have to manually cast it on higher priority units like colossus, immortals etc. as opposed to stalkers/sentries. Focus firing is so micro intensive. Edit : This is sarcasm btw, but you never know on Internet ^^
I.... actually appreciate your edit. I was about to totally yell at you :D
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On August 15 2012 02:50 Gfire wrote:
I don't know why people say the Warhound is an a-move unit. Even it's basic attack requires as much micro as a unit like an immortal, but you also have a greater variance in effectiveness you can achieve due to the haywire missiles. You'll need to control them carefully to make sure that you are in range of a mech unit at all times, and moreso to optimally focus fire units. It's essentially twice as complex as most regular units.
I don't think it's too big at all. I think most units are too small, but I think it's size makes it act like an immortal. You don't want too many of them, cause it's too hard to get them all attacking at once (moreso even than an immortal because of haywire missiles) which means you'll still have pretty tank-heavy compositions and warhounds, while they're damage dealing units, will act as only support units, like the immortal.
Not too happy with the unit model, though. It's too tall and weird looking.
I really hate battle hellions. It seems really weird that a unit could transform and change the amount of HP it has. The hellion's attack style was so cool before, but this is just kinda dumb.
Yes, but the warhound is a lot more useful than the immortal in bigger numbers because it can shoot air -.-
And Terran needs more spell-caster.
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On August 15 2012 02:33 ArcticRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 02:25 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:11 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:08 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:05 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 15 2012 02:04 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 02:03 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 15 2012 02:02 ArcticRaven wrote:On August 15 2012 01:57 Sbrubbles wrote:
Nah, I think the warhound is fine. Arguments ? none needed. Sarcasm I hope. why so? 'Cause you know, debating with arguments and reasoning, you know, all that stuff..... I still have a glimmer of hope. On August 15 2012 02:06 iky43210 wrote:On August 15 2012 02:04 Grapefruit wrote:
With no AA there is literally no reason to build them, instead of tanks. blinks stalkers and immortals are 2 good reasons In that case, you won't want Tanks - you'll want Warhounds instead of them. And tankless mech isn't mech - it's just like Bio, but without micro, which isn't what I want as spectator or player. ?? silly argument Can you read the whole post please ? Warhounds and tanks aren't complementary. So you'll have Thor/Hellion/Warhound - a mechanical army that behaves just like Bio except it is microless. I'll redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325On August 15 2012 02:13 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 01:48 Thaniri wrote:
Dakim literally said that the warhound and hellion are being designed to be a-move units in the anaheim interview.
They just don't realize how stupid that is. I dont know why everyone is jumping on this bandwagon... Two of the three races right now ARE predominantly a-move armies so this isnt really anything that's stupid or different. But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL. You made alot of assumptions for something that isn't even on the beta. First off you don't know the composition and the meta games in the HOTS, but keep this in mind. Mech without tank is simply a bioball that is 1) slower 2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical) 3) cannot be healed. Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Secondly, mech describes composition where your majority of food is comes from the factory. It has nothing to do with tank or not. Lastly, warhound is more apm intensive then people give credits. Having to spam haywire (depending on how many you got) every 6 seconds is not light on the apm counts. on top of tank focus fire, positioning, hellion controls etc Spamming every 6 seconds during fights ? That's not very hard. It's super easy in fact. As for the rest - I'll just redirect you to this : http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=360325 . What makes mech interesting is not that the units are mechanical. It is that it's a completely different way to play the game. Show nested quote +1) slower
2) less dps (zealots aren't mechanical)
3) cannot be healed.
Without tank and window mind aoe firepower, pure battlehellions and warhound is most likely not going to work. Why not ? I haven't had the impression were even remotely good against zealots, and Blizz just gave Terran a great counter. Tankless mech is also faster as you do not have to leapfrog, and Warhounds can't be healed either. Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 02:19 ArcticRaven wrote:
But what we need then is more micro on the other races. If I want to watch or play a dumbed down game I can just choose LoL.
Right, but the rest of the terran units are still VERY micro intensive. They can (and probably should) still work on adding some micro into the other races even if they add the warhound to the terran army. The more micro (for everyone) the better. This game doesn't need a second marauder or colossus. Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 02:31 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 15 2012 02:30 Bjoernzor wrote:
The warhound is a marauder that comes out of the factory, go figue It has more life and more range... It is not economical to run marauders into a tank line to try and break it. I really, really dont think that most of the complainers have tried using it yet. More life and more range doesn't make a unit play differently.
Its really a bothersome replying to split up quotes, but don't ever underestimate the micro it needs to fire haywire every 6 seconds. Mouseover selection and accuracy is definitely something not to be underestimated, especially when you have to do it for every single warhound you produced.
I gave you a reason why pure battlehellion/warhound won't work if you produce them purely. Because you are still not going to beat the late game firepower of the protoss units without having massive aoe dmg of your own. Not a god damn chance. your units is going to melt in the face of protoss late game without tank support
Why don't you go find a terran/protoss, and go see how awesome your battlehellion/warhound composition fair against late game protoss. Have fun
and there is nothing wrong with marauders. Did marauders make terran bio 1-a or made them not micro intensive? Last I check Terran is still an incredibly APM intensive race regardless of having marauders or not
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Also from the battle report I watched, I'm leaning towards not buying hots. Its gameplay looks so... boring. I will give beta a chance though.
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