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On July 10 2012 12:29 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 12:19 Lineridarz wrote:On July 10 2012 12:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point. ????????????????????????????? zealots, sentries and stalkers suck against bio, i dont understand the ??????????????????????????????? because zealot stalker does pretty well in the early game if the terran wants to go into the macro game (i.e. 1rax fe) or rather... without marauders or upgrades (stim/cs) in the early game. Show nested quote +- If the beta comes out and the widow mine is still having issues, it will be most likely cut from the final game. cutting things is always retarded. including cutting your wrist. Show nested quote +- The mothership core will allow protoss to pressure in the early game, without the risk of losing their high gas cost sentries. without _any risk_ is stupid there should be some sort of risk for things you do
Do you even play this game? Against 2 bunkers the terran can never die against a 4 gate / 3 gate with repair...
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On July 10 2012 12:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point. ?????????????????????????????
Protoss is vulnerable to early stim timings, I think that's what he's talking about.
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If they would fucking work on the Carrier then it would be fine. But no, thats to hard for them.
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Zerg
- Zerg has difficulty pushing, and even with signifcant advantages in the mid-game, they can't push their opponent if they are reasonably defended, until they get broodlords out.
What? Zergs can kill in mid game if they go ling/bling/mutas. It is just that the meta game now is to go defensive with infestors/ling and then tech to BLs because BLs are so hard to deal with. Infestors are one of the best defensive units in game. If zergs can push with infestor/ling and end games, I think there will be some issues. It is like saying that terrans with 5 bunkers and turrets can't push their opponents so we need to make bunkers and turrets be able to move...
Overall Zerg has moved from being a passive, sit-back and macro race, to a more in your face aggressive, swarming playstyle
Then nerf fungals (and give zergs something else to compensate). As I said above, infestors are what makes zergs passive because infestors are 10x more effective defending then attacking vs pre split/defensive armies. And infestors are pretty much the backbone of the zerg armies now because they complement BLs AND Ultras so well.
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United States5660 Posts
On July 10 2012 12:32 Lineridarz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 12:29 zhurai wrote:On July 10 2012 12:19 Lineridarz wrote:On July 10 2012 12:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point. ????????????????????????????? zealots, sentries and stalkers suck against bio, i dont understand the ??????????????????????????????? because zealot stalker does pretty well in the early game if the terran wants to go into the macro game (i.e. 1rax fe) or rather... without marauders or upgrades (stim/cs) in the early game. - If the beta comes out and the widow mine is still having issues, it will be most likely cut from the final game. cutting things is always retarded. including cutting your wrist. - The mothership core will allow protoss to pressure in the early game, without the risk of losing their high gas cost sentries. without _any risk_ is stupid there should be some sort of risk for things you do Do you even play this game? Against 2 bunkers the terran can never die against a 4 gate / 3 gate with repair...
Yes I play this game,
I never heard that bunkers are considered bio units
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On July 10 2012 12:32 Lineridarz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 12:29 zhurai wrote:On July 10 2012 12:19 Lineridarz wrote:On July 10 2012 12:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point. ????????????????????????????? zealots, sentries and stalkers suck against bio, i dont understand the ??????????????????????????????? because zealot stalker does pretty well in the early game if the terran wants to go into the macro game (i.e. 1rax fe) or rather... without marauders or upgrades (stim/cs) in the early game. - If the beta comes out and the widow mine is still having issues, it will be most likely cut from the final game. cutting things is always retarded. including cutting your wrist. - The mothership core will allow protoss to pressure in the early game, without the risk of losing their high gas cost sentries. without _any risk_ is stupid there should be some sort of risk for things you do Do you even play this game? Against 2 bunkers the terran can never die against a 4 gate / 3 gate with repair...
Do you? theres this thing called a 2 gas 4gate that you get sentries, throw forcefield over bunkers so they cant be repaired.
On July 10 2012 12:34 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +Zerg
- Zerg has difficulty pushing, and even with signifcant advantages in the mid-game, they can't push their opponent if they are reasonably defended, until they get broodlords out. What? Zergs can kill in mid game if they go ling/bling/mutas. It is just that the meta game now is to go defensive with infestors/ling and then tech to BLs because BLs are so hard to deal with. Infestors are one of the best defensive units in game. If zergs can push with infestor/ling and end games, I think there will be some issues. It is like saying that terrans with 5 bunkers and turrets can't push their opponents so we need to make bunkers and turrets be able to move... Show nested quote +Overall Zerg has moved from being a passive, sit-back and macro race, to a more in your face aggressive, swarming playstyle Then nerf fungals (and give zergs something else to compensate). As I said above, infestors are what makes zergs passive because infestors are 10x more effective defending then attacking vs pre split/defensive armies. And infestors are pretty much the backbone of the zerg armies now because they complement BLs AND Ultras so well.
and counter air.
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Sounds about right, and it doesn't sound like anything we haven't heard before (multiple times).
Still eagerly awaiting new information... especially an actual beta release date!
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On July 10 2012 12:35 Digamma wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 12:32 Lineridarz wrote:On July 10 2012 12:29 zhurai wrote:On July 10 2012 12:19 Lineridarz wrote:On July 10 2012 12:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point. ????????????????????????????? zealots, sentries and stalkers suck against bio, i dont understand the ??????????????????????????????? because zealot stalker does pretty well in the early game if the terran wants to go into the macro game (i.e. 1rax fe) or rather... without marauders or upgrades (stim/cs) in the early game. - If the beta comes out and the widow mine is still having issues, it will be most likely cut from the final game. cutting things is always retarded. including cutting your wrist. - The mothership core will allow protoss to pressure in the early game, without the risk of losing their high gas cost sentries. without _any risk_ is stupid there should be some sort of risk for things you do Do you even play this game? Against 2 bunkers the terran can never die against a 4 gate / 3 gate with repair... Do you? theres this thing called a 2 gas 4gate that you get sentries, throw forcefield over bunkers so they cant be repaired. Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 12:34 vthree wrote:Zerg
- Zerg has difficulty pushing, and even with signifcant advantages in the mid-game, they can't push their opponent if they are reasonably defended, until they get broodlords out. What? Zergs can kill in mid game if they go ling/bling/mutas. It is just that the meta game now is to go defensive with infestors/ling and then tech to BLs because BLs are so hard to deal with. Infestors are one of the best defensive units in game. If zergs can push with infestor/ling and end games, I think there will be some issues. It is like saying that terrans with 5 bunkers and turrets can't push their opponents so we need to make bunkers and turrets be able to move... Overall Zerg has moved from being a passive, sit-back and macro race, to a more in your face aggressive, swarming playstyle Then nerf fungals (and give zergs something else to compensate). As I said above, infestors are what makes zergs passive because infestors are 10x more effective defending then attacking vs pre split/defensive armies. And infestors are pretty much the backbone of the zerg armies now because they complement BLs AND Ultras so well. and counter air.
Because that's effective and successful in professional play when the HUGE majority of players go 1 rax FE every game.
Yes I play this game,
I never heard that bunkers are considered bio units
OK, jinro didnt say "bio" so therefore my argument still stands.
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On July 10 2012 12:21 benthekid wrote:
The fact that this guy is in charge of balance makes me want to cry. Mech was so viable vs protoss before the stupid blue flame nerf.
His points about protoss having to be passive early game is a joke. Before stim which takes forever protoss units dominate the early game in all matchups.
Does he not know about this build called the 4 gate that was the only build that they used in the matchup for like a year and a half (innovators to be sure...)
TvT is stale with tank lines are you kidding me? TvT is by far the best mirror matchup.
I seriously think this guy doesn't even watch current games or something.
1. Nothing is wrong with making mech more viable, blue flame needed to be nerfed but now they want mech more viable, not a problem at all
2. This is true but you neglect to mention how stim makes gateway armies essentially useless so Protoss are most the time favoring quicker tech to deal with bio timings (Also terran was super innovative with the year and a half of 111 as well)
3. TvT is by far the best mirror imo but bio tank is by far the most prevalent style so they want to give more options which is a good thing
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Did you read the interview?
I've read it 2 times some time ago (and 3rd time now), when translated it into russion for other site. But there are no specifical information about 1 month of HotS after beta ends. Here are only your speculations about 1 month after beta. It can be 1 week or 2-3 months, and 98% of your info is old, if not 100%
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On July 10 2012 12:42 ShakaZu.Sc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 12:21 benthekid wrote:
The fact that this guy is in charge of balance makes me want to cry. Mech was so viable vs protoss before the stupid blue flame nerf.
His points about protoss having to be passive early game is a joke. Before stim which takes forever protoss units dominate the early game in all matchups.
Does he not know about this build called the 4 gate that was the only build that they used in the matchup for like a year and a half (innovators to be sure...)
TvT is stale with tank lines are you kidding me? TvT is by far the best mirror matchup.
I seriously think this guy doesn't even watch current games or something. 1. Nothing is wrong with making mech more viable, blue flame needed to be nerfed but now they want mech more viable, not a problem at all 2. This is true but you neglect to mention how stim makes gateway armies essentially useless so Protoss are most the time favoring quicker tech to deal with bio timings (Also terran was super innovative with the year and a half of 111 as well) 3. TvT is by far the best mirror imo but bio tank is by far the most prevalent style so they want to give more options which is a good thing
so now it'll turn into marine marauder warhound medivac... hardly a improvement.. i think vast majority of people who play TvT at the higher levels prefer the tanks.
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By saying that protoss is forced to be passive, it doesn't necessarily mean he can't attack. It can just mean the protoss units have to stay near the base and not have map control.
Sentries are important and slow. You have to make sure your opponent doesn't have a lot of units out there if you want move out along the map (that's especially true against zerg.)
Nexus recall is the thing I'm excited about the most in HOTS.
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How the hell is TvT stale, it along with PvP are the best matchups to both play and watch right now. Looks like Blizzard really loves mech.
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On July 10 2012 12:04 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point. ?????????????????????????????
facts can be confusing.
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20 new maps*
*Made by Blizzard so only 1-2 will be playable despite having plenty of great maps made by the community
Gotta read that fine print.
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On July 10 2012 12:44 Existor wrote:I've read it 2 times some time ago (and 3rd time now), when translated it into russion for other site. But there are no specifical information about 1 month of HotS after beta ends. Here are only your speculations about 1 month after beta. It can be 1 week or 2-3 months, and 98% of your info is old, if not 100%
It’s not an unreasonable question but I don’t know, depends on when we ship. Usually, we’ll shut down a month before launch and when we can’t make any more changes. First, we have to finish that 1.5 patch that’s coming, there are few bugs still there. So when that’s done, we’ll start thinking when can the beta be released. And then we calculate when we’ll probably ship.
Of course a lot of the info is old, the interview was made one month ago.
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TvT is stale with tank lines, and the only way to break out of it is the sky battles.
Do they even watch SC2?
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There are just so many ways to break tank lines in TvT that I almost never see this stalemate he is talking about, how is this guy in charge of balance?I shudder to think what will happen to terran with just 1a hellion being added.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Of course a lot of the info is old, the interview was made one month ago.
It’s not an unreasonable question but I don’t know, depends on when we ship. Usually, we’ll shut down a month before launch and when we can’t make any more changes. First, we have to finish that 1.5 patch that’s coming, there are few bugs still there. So when that’s done, we’ll start thinking when can the beta be released. And then we calculate when we’ll probably ship.
Firstly they want to finish 1.5, then add some features like resume from replay or something other of those new Bnet features (blobal play, clan support, coop replay viewing, etc etc).
They don't know, will it be an one month or more.
The main problem of your speculation that someone read it and will sit near your topic and wait, when it will be launched. So better avoid small confuses 
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On July 10 2012 12:46 Digamma wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 12:42 ShakaZu.Sc2 wrote:On July 10 2012 12:21 benthekid wrote:
The fact that this guy is in charge of balance makes me want to cry. Mech was so viable vs protoss before the stupid blue flame nerf.
His points about protoss having to be passive early game is a joke. Before stim which takes forever protoss units dominate the early game in all matchups.
Does he not know about this build called the 4 gate that was the only build that they used in the matchup for like a year and a half (innovators to be sure...)
TvT is stale with tank lines are you kidding me? TvT is by far the best mirror matchup.
I seriously think this guy doesn't even watch current games or something. 1. Nothing is wrong with making mech more viable, blue flame needed to be nerfed but now they want mech more viable, not a problem at all 2. This is true but you neglect to mention how stim makes gateway armies essentially useless so Protoss are most the time favoring quicker tech to deal with bio timings (Also terran was super innovative with the year and a half of 111 as well) 3. TvT is by far the best mirror imo but bio tank is by far the most prevalent style so they want to give more options which is a good thing so now it'll turn into marine marauder warhound medivac... hardly a improvement.. i think vast majority of people who play TvT at the higher levels prefer the tanks.
While possibly true, i find tank v tank to be incredibly boring to watch. I, for one, am tired of 40 minute tvts, where all the casters do is talk about how important positioning is, until someone finds a place where they can stim in a bunch of marines and shred everything b/c the other player is unsuspecting.
I'm on board with any changes in that aspect of the game.
I personally prefer zvz both playing & watching
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EPT
