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On July 28 2020 15:22 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2020 02:06 Pandemona wrote: I hope that happens but also think they won't get near their points total from this season. They will be lucky to see 80 points area as they are losing players, rumoured no money to spend and need to bring players in. Mane is now 30 who is by far their best goal scorer with if anything happens to Firminho they are in trouble.
I don't understand why you think turning 30 is such a huge problem for Mane, you've mentioned it before.
I don't get it either.
Ever heard of this guy ?
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I was critisizing Benzema when he was roughly 30 and looked out of form and unable to fill in the goalscoring needs after Ronaldo left. He just finished a 37 game, 21 goal season for Real at 32. Out of the top 5 goalscorers in La Liga, 4 were 32 or older.
Surely once Mane is 30, you'll start to worry about recovering from injuries and slumps and all that, but even that'll be a couple of years.
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People that follow PSG, how was Cavani this Season?
Benfica's president Luis Filipe Vieira is afraid of losing the next elections in October (he's president for 17 years), because he's be rightfuly contested in the last few years and he's about to pay almost two times the wage cap to Cavani for him to come to Benfica.
I know he's 33, and that is in line with the current discussion here, but is he still in form? Keep in mind we're talking about the Portuguese League and 2nd tier european footbal. He could probably ace it with just one leg.
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Northern Ireland25499 Posts
On July 28 2020 19:17 Bacillus wrote: I was critisizing Benzema when he was roughly 30 and looked out of form and unable to fill in the goalscoring needs after Ronaldo left. He just finished a 37 game, 21 goal season for Real at 32. Out of the top 5 goalscorers in La Liga, 4 were 32 or older.
Surely once Mane is 30, you'll start to worry about recovering from injuries and slumps and all that, but even that'll be a couple of years.
There’s no real hard and fast rule, people’s body’s are different and different players have different miles on the clock, different injury records and hell different motivation levels too.
I think to assume Mane/Salah will drop off is a bit silly given they’ve been on an upward curve the other side of 25
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On July 29 2020 01:21 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2020 19:17 Bacillus wrote: I was critisizing Benzema when he was roughly 30 and looked out of form and unable to fill in the goalscoring needs after Ronaldo left. He just finished a 37 game, 21 goal season for Real at 32. Out of the top 5 goalscorers in La Liga, 4 were 32 or older.
Surely once Mane is 30, you'll start to worry about recovering from injuries and slumps and all that, but even that'll be a couple of years.
There’s no real hard and fast rule, people’s body’s are different and different players have different miles on the clock, different injury records and hell different motivation levels too. Yeah. There are probably some recognizable patterns if someone wants to find them, but in general it's just an individual thing you'll have to see as it unfolds.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
On July 28 2020 15:22 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2020 02:06 Pandemona wrote: I hope that happens but also think they won't get near their points total from this season. They will be lucky to see 80 points area as they are losing players, rumoured no money to spend and need to bring players in. Mane is now 30 who is by far their best goal scorer with if anything happens to Firminho they are in trouble.
I don't understand why you think turning 30 is such a huge problem for Mane, you've mentioned it before. players who rely on pace can be subject once they hit that kinda age mark, maybe 30 is a bit farfetched and i was fed false information as the guy is 28 LOL.
Yes there are some exceptions to the 30 year old rule now as many players keep themselves in tip top shape, those being Ronaldo and Lewandowski that spring to mind, oh and Ibrahimovic. However there has been a lot of players post 30 who have dropped off a cliff, Schevchenko, Inzaghi, Anelka (if you classify him as world class), Torres, Suarez, and from a Chelsea perspective players like Ivanovic, Essien disappeared when they hit those ages, all be it Essien was at another club at this time.
There is even an article with stats on the case saying how they are recorded doing way less sprints and dribbles compared to those under 30. Now that isn't to say that they all do, is just when u take a few 1000m of running out of their 90 minutes they put in now, or half a yard of pace they could lose, then they are not the same player.
Still Mane is 28 this irrelevant xD
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On July 29 2020 02:47 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2020 15:22 DropBear wrote:On July 28 2020 02:06 Pandemona wrote: I hope that happens but also think they won't get near their points total from this season. They will be lucky to see 80 points area as they are losing players, rumoured no money to spend and need to bring players in. Mane is now 30 who is by far their best goal scorer with if anything happens to Firminho they are in trouble.
I don't understand why you think turning 30 is such a huge problem for Mane, you've mentioned it before. players who rely on pace can be subject once they hit that kinda age mark, maybe 30 is a bit farfetched and i was fed false information as the guy is 28 LOL. Yes there are some exceptions to the 30 year old rule now as many players keep themselves in tip top shape, those being Ronaldo and Lewandowski that spring to mind, oh and Ibrahimovic. However there has been a lot of players post 30 who have dropped off a cliff, Schevchenko, Inzaghi, Anelka (if you classify him as world class), Torres, Suarez, and from a Chelsea perspective players like Ivanovic, Essien disappeared when they hit those ages, all be it Essien was at another club at this time. There is even an article with stats on the case saying how they are recorded doing way less sprints and dribbles compared to those under 30. Now that isn't to say that they all do, is just when u take a few 1000m of running out of their 90 minutes they put in now, or half a yard of pace they could lose, then they are not the same player. Still Mane is 28 this irrelevant xD Irrelevant, because 30 is a *magic* age. Aging isn't something gradual, you are young until you turn 30 and then *bam* old and decrepit!
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You also have to consider that all thos players come from a different generation. This generation and the others have been drilled into perfect physical conditions since they were kids
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pande isnt wrong though. there are players who rely on speed more than others and although there isnt a set age a player over 30 is going to be much less reliable as far as managing your team goes for the long term. lesser acceleration, lesser top speed, more easily fatigued, more susceptible to muscle injuries, longer recovery and perhaps less performance after recovery. you add all these things together and you have a player who may be 30,31 or 32 but can suddenly no longer perform at his peak. its especially worse for the 1 dimensional players that relied on their physical abilities more. whether you would argue that mane for example fits in this category is debatable though
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On July 28 2020 15:20 Greg_J wrote:Can I introduce Craig Burley to this conversation. The main take away from his rant is that Manchester have not got better at all. They finished on 66 points last season and that was only good enough for 6th. They finished on 66 points this season and that was good enough for 3rd. So essentially his argument is they haven't got any better at all the teams around them have got worse and they are still 30 odd points of winning the title. Hard to argue with that. In my eyes Yanited have looked a lot better at the end of this season. So maybe they are going in the right direction now. But despite that improvement they didn't even beat last seasons points total you can't really argue they are better than last year.
Yeah agree, United fans should not be happy about finishing with 66 points at all. 66 points wouldn't even get you CL in many past seasons. That being said with the injuries in the first half and the way the team performed post Bruno with all the injured players coming back, it was a massive difference and certainly alot to look forward to next season.
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On July 29 2020 12:15 evilfatsh1t wrote: pande isnt wrong though. there are players who rely on speed more than others and although there isnt a set age a player over 30 is going to be much less reliable as far as managing your team goes for the long term. lesser acceleration, lesser top speed, more easily fatigued, more susceptible to muscle injuries, longer recovery and perhaps less performance after recovery. you add all these things together and you have a player who may be 30,31 or 32 but can suddenly no longer perform at his peak. its especially worse for the 1 dimensional players that relied on their physical abilities more. whether you would argue that sane for example fits in this category is debatable though
Nah it really depends on the individual player and how they take care of their body. Players like Willian, Milner are still at the their fitness even though they are 33 while some other younger players might burn out earlier.
You do lose abit of top speed once you hit 30+ but top speed isn't everything in football, acceleration is much more important.
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On July 29 2020 15:04 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2020 15:20 Greg_J wrote:Can I introduce Craig Burley to this conversation. The main take away from his rant is that Manchester have not got better at all. They finished on 66 points last season and that was only good enough for 6th. They finished on 66 points this season and that was good enough for 3rd. So essentially his argument is they haven't got any better at all the teams around them have got worse and they are still 30 odd points of winning the title. Hard to argue with that. In my eyes Yanited have looked a lot better at the end of this season. So maybe they are going in the right direction now. But despite that improvement they didn't even beat last seasons points total you can't really argue they are better than last year. Yeah agree, United fans should not be happy about finishing with 66 points at all. 66 points wouldn't even get you CL in many past seasons. That being said with the injuries in the first half and the way the team performed post Bruno with all the injured players coming back, it was a massive difference and certainly alot to look forward to next season. i think the craig burley guy needs to get some perspective. the points tallies are irrelevant, all that matters are placings on the table. united was like 8th at some point in late dec and ogs was having like the worst season performance out of all managers post fergie. in comes fernandes and the last 14 games of the epl (all games played after fernandes joined) man utd is ranked 1 in points earned, if im not mistaken also ranked 1 in least goals conceded and ranked 2nd in goals scored (city ranked 1). the comeback to 3rd and more importantly the actual performances after fernandes joined is what fans are happy about and its hard to argue united are no better than last season when for the last third of the season united had the best results in the league.
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They've got no fans anyway so the empty stadia made no difference.
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A little harsh. It's not a big club. But they fill their stadium. Well not right now. But yeah.
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Northern Ireland25499 Posts
On July 29 2020 18:15 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2020 15:04 Dante08 wrote:On July 28 2020 15:20 Greg_J wrote:Can I introduce Craig Burley to this conversation. The main take away from his rant is that Manchester have not got better at all. They finished on 66 points last season and that was only good enough for 6th. They finished on 66 points this season and that was good enough for 3rd. So essentially his argument is they haven't got any better at all the teams around them have got worse and they are still 30 odd points of winning the title. Hard to argue with that. In my eyes Yanited have looked a lot better at the end of this season. So maybe they are going in the right direction now. But despite that improvement they didn't even beat last seasons points total you can't really argue they are better than last year. Yeah agree, United fans should not be happy about finishing with 66 points at all. 66 points wouldn't even get you CL in many past seasons. That being said with the injuries in the first half and the way the team performed post Bruno with all the injured players coming back, it was a massive difference and certainly alot to look forward to next season. i think the craig burley guy needs to get some perspective. the points tallies are irrelevant, all that matters are placings on the table. united was like 8th at some point in late dec and ogs was having like the worst season performance out of all managers post fergie. in comes fernandes and the last 14 games of the epl (all games played after fernandes joined) man utd is ranked 1 in points earned, if im not mistaken also ranked 1 in least goals conceded and ranked 2nd in goals scored (city ranked 1). the comeback to 3rd and more importantly the actual performances after fernandes joined is what fans are happy about and its hard to argue united are no better than last season when for the last third of the season united had the best results in the league. They did well for sure in this period. Fernandes has been transformative, I’d be as interested to see how they go in the Europa League really. Chance for some silverware and some pretty decent teams with European pedigree in there.
I mean perspective is one thing, preferable to entitled whining anyway. It’s just weirdly applied in media and fan culture. Stylistic concerns Lampard hasn’t particularly outperformed Sarri but he’s done a great job and one is a flop.
Feels that United are set up where they should have been a few seasons after Fergie left. Exciting squad with lots of young talent with years of growth potential. The overall direction at that club feels so disjointed that it feels they more stumbled across this state of affairs than had any kind of cohesive plan to get there. So I’m not sure I have faith in them making the right moves to make that next step up.
I can’t see the wheels completely falling off either though, Ole seems to have the dressing room pushing in his direction. If I were to guess he’d get the team 90% there and another coach might have to come in to push them over the line.
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How seriously are Yanited going to take the Europa League if they have already qualified for the CL?
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Norway28675 Posts
Last games of the season and last chance to get a trophy. Seriously for sure. There's basically no reason not to prioritize because it doesn't collide with anything other than 'next season preparations', but playing EL finals is a better warmup than practice tours around the world anyway.
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Northern Ireland25499 Posts
On July 29 2020 21:50 Liquid`Drone wrote: Last games of the season and last chance to get a trophy. Seriously for sure. There's basically no reason not to prioritize because it doesn't collide with anything other than 'next season preparations', but playing EL finals is a better warmup than practice tours around the world anyway. Hopefully the remaining teams give it a real shot.
Aside from the lack of fans it should be quite good for the competition that teams have their fates regarding Champions League etc resolved and don’t have to prioritise league fixtures. The teams that are qualified can go all in for some silverware, the teams that haven’t can go all in on qualifying via winning the Europa league.
Plus as you say, makes for a much more competitive form of pre-season too the way things have worked out.
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mental exhaustion shouldnt be underestimated though players need rest from competition to be fresh for the new season again
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