EPT2019 - 2020 Football Thread - Page 170
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sharkie
Austria18762 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10014 Posts
On April 09 2020 10:17 Wombat_NI wrote: I don’t really get how it would be funny, rivalries or not. As an Inter fan, Milan losing to Liverpool in Istanbul yeah that’s funny but that moment was earned on the field of play. Man City being (theoretically) kicked out of Europe was great to me because they’re a Gulf State propaganda project whose own internal emails showcase their contempt for the integrity of the game. I don’t like that money being in the game but it’s specially their contempt I especially dislike. Thankfully not all of their supporters buy into the ‘UEFA hates us’ crap. Liverpool not winning a title they had sewn up and their first in as long as I’ve been alive (literally to the year), just feels off and not sporting. Rivalries aside I think we have the shared football experience and that common heartbreak and triumph we all have had as fans. Fortunes wax and wane and we get our time in the sun, enjoy that time while it lasts. To deny a rival and throw them back into the shade when they’ve really earned this title and to take pleasure in it I just can’t do as a fan of the game. Its funny because of my bet with sharkie. (see OP) | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
I can tell you for a start Liverpool a billion dollar company tried to use government money to pay its staff to try help balance their books, is that good? Man City never said they would do that, nor Chelsea or Yanited, but on your logic Man City should be burnt down cuz they owned by a gulf state? | ||
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sharkie
Austria18762 Posts
On April 09 2020 20:52 Jockmcplop wrote: Its funny because of my bet with sharkie. (see OP) if season is voided so is our bet of course  | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On April 09 2020 21:39 Pandemona wrote: They ruin football with their integrity...ok Sharkie i think you are living in a world where nothing "shady" happens and everything is black or white xD I can tell you for a start Liverpool a billion dollar company tried to use government money to pay its staff to try help balance their books, is that good? Man City never said they would do that, nor Chelsea or Yanited, but on your logic Man City should be burnt down cuz they owned by a gulf state? If Man City were merely owned by a rich emirate bloke splashing cash it’s different, although still not a fan. They’re specifically part of a propaganda push by awful states to try and soften their image and the awful rights enjoyed by their citizens (and tons of non-citizen workers). PSG and Qatar is another example, and all sorts of other sports like Formula 1, tennis, golf are happy to play ball too. It’s the difference between Chelsea being owned by Roman Abramovich or being run by the Kremlin. | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
I don't really dislike City (I even wish Pep could win a CL with them haha) but if they broke the rules they should be punished. However what they've done isn't exactly the worst possible thing, and I hope the UEFA will pursue other clubs for their shady practices (like having 50 players signed and loaning them all out) and punish them just the same, not only because they're from the Gulf and have the spotlight on them. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
Liverpool thankfully reversed their terrible decision after former players and the Spirit of Shankly came out against it, Spurs is pretty inexcusable. Even without the furlough shite Jordan Henderson has been the chief negotiator between the players as to charitable giving. The club as a social, historical institution has done fine by my book, the Fenway types have fucked around. Nobody’s perfect no, absolutely but we’re talking regimes with heinous amounts of money and terrible human rights records running European football clubs. And in City’s case not breaching FFP by mistake, or lower than expected incomes but actively trying to circumvent it and posting internal emails gloating over the death of prosecutors. We’re talking World Cups going to Qatar where people are dying building stadiums while they’re spending 100 million plus on single players for PSG. We’ll see how it goes moving forward, if a European super league happens etc. If it does meh I’ve not really got much interest in following the sport any more. Which as was well put earlier is a personal line in the sand, and depending what one gets out of football that line will differ from person to person. | ||
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DropBear
Australia4437 Posts
On April 11 2020 09:52 Wombat_NI wrote: As much power as Roman has Chelsea is still not a propaganda vehicle for the Kremlin. Liverpool thankfully reversed their terrible decision after former players and the Spirit of Shankly came out against it, Spurs is pretty inexcusable. Even without the furlough shite Jordan Henderson has been the chief negotiator between the players as to charitable giving. The club as a social, historical institution has done fine by my book, the Fenway types have fucked around. Nobody’s perfect no, absolutely but we’re talking regimes with heinous amounts of money and terrible human rights records running European football clubs. And in City’s case not breaching FFP by mistake, or lower than expected incomes but actively trying to circumvent it and posting internal emails gloating over the death of prosecutors. We’re talking World Cups going to Qatar where people are dying building stadiums while they’re spending 100 million plus on single players for PSG. We’ll see how it goes moving forward, if a European super league happens etc. If it does meh I’ve not really got much interest in following the sport any more. Which as was well put earlier is a personal line in the sand, and depending what one gets out of football that line will differ from person to person. You sir are a breath of fresh air in this thread. | ||
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gTank
Austria2669 Posts
On April 11 2020 09:52 Wombat_NI wrote: As much power as Roman has Chelsea is still not a propaganda vehicle for the Kremlin. Liverpool thankfully reversed their terrible decision after former players and the Spirit of Shankly came out against it, Spurs is pretty inexcusable. Even without the furlough shite Jordan Henderson has been the chief negotiator between the players as to charitable giving. The club as a social, historical institution has done fine by my book, the Fenway types have fucked around. Nobody’s perfect no, absolutely but we’re talking regimes with heinous amounts of money and terrible human rights records running European football clubs. And in City’s case not breaching FFP by mistake, or lower than expected incomes but actively trying to circumvent it and posting internal emails gloating over the death of prosecutors. We’re talking World Cups going to Qatar where people are dying building stadiums while they’re spending 100 million plus on single players for PSG. We’ll see how it goes moving forward, if a European super league happens etc. If it does meh I’ve not really got much interest in following the sport any more. Which as was well put earlier is a personal line in the sand, and depending what one gets out of football that line will differ from person to person. This is so true! That is why I mostly lost interest in the premier league and CL. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On April 11 2020 09:52 Wombat_NI wrote: As much power as Roman has Chelsea is still not a propaganda vehicle for the Kremlin. Liverpool thankfully reversed their terrible decision after former players and the Spirit of Shankly came out against it, Spurs is pretty inexcusable. Even without the furlough shite Jordan Henderson has been the chief negotiator between the players as to charitable giving. The club as a social, historical institution has done fine by my book, the Fenway types have fucked around. Nobody’s perfect no, absolutely but we’re talking regimes with heinous amounts of money and terrible human rights records running European football clubs. And in City’s case not breaching FFP by mistake, or lower than expected incomes but actively trying to circumvent it and posting internal emails gloating over the death of prosecutors. We’re talking World Cups going to Qatar where people are dying building stadiums while they’re spending 100 million plus on single players for PSG. We’ll see how it goes moving forward, if a European super league happens etc. If it does meh I’ve not really got much interest in following the sport any more. Which as was well put earlier is a personal line in the sand, and depending what one gets out of football that line will differ from person to person. Liverpool was not behind the NHS donations from the players, it was Jordan Henderson, a boy born and raised in the North East of Sunderland, what he is doing is remarkable and amazing. I have always had a soft spot for Henderson since he begain playing and this is just shooting him up even further. Saying Liverpool are clean and Fenway are the issue is also so narrow sited it is unreal, they have been just as bad as most clubs with the way their fans have acted, how trouble follows them around etc. Are they as bad as Man City/PSG Owners of course not, but they have responsibilities with Heysel disaster, with Istanbul where they were fighting with eachother causing a riot outside the stadium trying to get into that final as well. People forget these things though because Liverpool is the almighty justice sword of football...they are far from it. Not taking away from the rest of your point though, you are entitled to that view, we all know PSG and Man City are doing extremely dodgy things but when the governing body FIFA does nothing about it you have two choices....stop watching it or living with it and hoping for some more whistleblowers to shut it down. I mean i don't hear many people talking about how Germany bribed their World Cup in 2006.... | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
Some more 'respectable' teams like MU have foreign owners too but those don't even care to make their clubs play sophisticated football, they just care about financial results. What's worse in the end? I don't think owning PSG makes Qatar that much more likeable, even if it might have been the original intent. I care more about the result, which is finally having a competitive team in France. The only way to 'solve' this would be to have a salary cap and a closed league. Whether it's a Gulf state pumping money or a historically established rich club, there's going to be big discrepancies in clubs' capacities. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
UEFA did try to do something about it, after whistleblowers City does have fans who are uncomfortable with the owners and the attitude, has some who are against FPP for just keeping the current big clubs set in stone (reasonable position imo), but a hell of a lot of ‘how dare UEFA they’re out to get us’ types too. City the club has many admirable people and Kyle Walker on its books too. Sterling has spoken more eloquently on race than any player I can think of, every club has them so I’m not criticising them specifically. The English press were certainly salty about 2006 although I don’t think even they alleged bribes at their most jingoistic. Germany and much of Europe is extremely well-suited to hosting a World Cup given ready stadiums, great transport infrastructure and how easy it is to get around Europe for Europeans, plus most countries have a love and tradition around football. It just makes sense to have a World Cup there, as opposed to in a desert. Although I do think it should move around the world too. It may be a strange world for football if the economic impact of the Corona virus hits hard, and maybe certain things will have to be rethought, who knows? While not perfect IMO, FFP came at a good time as it turns out, imagine if clubs had been as cavalier as they had before and this all hits? May turn out to have prevented some big names going bust. FFP2 might be the next logical step if shit really hits the fan, with straight salary caps etc instead of ones tied to turnover as we have now. Something like that would be quite good for the game overall, in making things more competitive, making clubs sustainable and actually profitable etc. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On April 11 2020 23:06 WillyWanker wrote: Most big events like the Olympics or the World Cups have had shady attributions if you look deep enough. I still think you can differentiate the owners from the club itself, although they're the one giving directions. For example, PSG was a major club in France far before Qatar arrived. Ultras existed before Neymar or Ibra joined and you can't define the club as just a Qatar promotion tool. They injected money and made the team a big shot in Europe, but 20 years ago they were it too, with French owners. Some more 'respectable' teams like MU have foreign owners too but those don't even care to make their clubs play sophisticated football, they just care about financial results. What's worse in the end? I don't think owning PSG makes Qatar that much more likeable, even if it might have been the original intent. I care more about the result, which is finally having a competitive team in France. The only way to 'solve' this would be to have a salary cap and a closed league. Whether it's a Gulf state pumping money or a historically established rich club, there's going to be big discrepancies in clubs' capacities. The Olympics you don’t have to look deep at all, the doping practices of the former East Germany are common knowledge, or China’s approach of developing athletes from a very early age specifically for Olympic medalling. Even in the UK where the media are pussyfooting around serious discrepancies in his accounts with regards to his training under his now-banned former coach Salazar. There’s a conflation of jingoism and sport in the Olympics that goes way beyond merely cheering on your country which I personally don’t like at all and why I’m not particularly interested in them. A competitive team in France but with the tradeoff of an extremely uncompetitive league. Yes Man U have foreign owners, but who merely want to make money. They do actually spend plenty but have done so very badly in recent years, so I think there’s incompetence there over a lack of ambition. On the other hand you do have Mike Ashley who tries to spend as little as possible to not get relegated and that’s it, which would be terrible if you’re a Newcastle fan. Well yes PSG has been around and had quality players on its books over the years, it’s not without history, neither is Manchester City. It is what it is now though, weren’t a lot of those ultras banned from attending matches? I vaguely recall some dispute anyway and that the Ultras weren’t huge fans of the takeover themselves. I don’t honestly know if these attempts to soften image and promote tourism etc to the Gulf via sport are effective or not but they sure are pumping shitloads of money into the attempt. | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
https://www.dw.com/en/ex-fifa-official-confirms-payment-from-german-account-denies-world-cup-bribe/a-42138722 https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/01/franz-beckenbauer-criminal-investigation-corruption-allegations-2006-world-cup-bid Now im not saying they don't deserve to host it they have the infrastructure im just saying no matter wherever you look their is just bribery and dodgy issues. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14215 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8931 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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