• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:32
CET 04:32
KST 12:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
[D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Username Change Request - Toxickej Kapr Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
SC4ALL II Brood War Complete Invited Player Lineup Rollback Netcode in Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Sagi.gg Launcher Released Top Players of October 2026 (EBPD Rankings)
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4 [Mixed-Gender CK] Rush+4 vs Best+4 [BSL23] RO24 Group F - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Deus Ex 3!? Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 29806 users

2013 NBA Finals - Page 62

Forum Index > Sports
Post a Reply
Prev 1 60 61 62 63 64 133 Next
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 02:53:50
June 15 2013 02:41 GMT
#1221
Yes ofc, didn't mean to make it sound like the opposite if I did anywhere =)

edit: I see what you mean. I meant that if Parker was healthy it would be an even better bet on the Heat imo. Vegas still respects them after a 30-point loss though was the bigger story I had in my mind when I wrote that. Any other team would not have likely had that spread.
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
June 15 2013 04:54 GMT
#1222
http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-simmons-rips-espn-for-dwyane-wade-joke-2013-6

starting to think Simmons isn't dumb like he seems on ESPN, he just has to be so PC that he can't actually make jokes or say smart shit.
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
June 15 2013 05:04 GMT
#1223
On June 15 2013 13:54 DystopiaX wrote:
http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-simmons-rips-espn-for-dwyane-wade-joke-2013-6

starting to think Simmons isn't dumb like he seems on ESPN, he just has to be so PC that he can't actually make jokes or say smart shit.


Obviously different people will have different tastes, but I find a lot of his stuff really entertaining. I wouldn't call him 'smart' in the sense of having amazing insight into the sport(s), but he kind of knows that isn't his thing and writes around it. I do feel like he isn't anything near his writing personality when he's on ESPN/ABC.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 15 2013 05:10 GMT
#1224
His joke was harmless, they are being ridiculous
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
June 15 2013 05:13 GMT
#1225
On June 15 2013 14:04 red_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2013 13:54 DystopiaX wrote:
http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-simmons-rips-espn-for-dwyane-wade-joke-2013-6

starting to think Simmons isn't dumb like he seems on ESPN, he just has to be so PC that he can't actually make jokes or say smart shit.


Obviously different people will have different tastes, but I find a lot of his stuff really entertaining. I wouldn't call him 'smart' in the sense of having amazing insight into the sport(s), but he kind of knows that isn't his thing and writes around it. I do feel like he isn't anything near his writing personality when he's on ESPN/ABC.

oh I like his writing too (didn't agree with all of his book of basketball but it was an entertaining read/good basic reference for the shit that happened before I was born) I just think that on ESPN he comes off really flat and he'll sometimes say things that don't make sense.

ESPN is being dumb, they can't be blind to how much better and more popular TNT's show is, yet stop them from having that kind of vibe can they?

And Simmons is right. How can they let morons like Stephen A. Smith say the dumb shit he does, yet censor that joke?
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
June 15 2013 05:32 GMT
#1226
Meanwhile on Inside the NBA

ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 06:02:41
June 15 2013 05:47 GMT
#1227
Well ya I knew Simmons was going to have a problem on TV from the first like 3 shows he did. His jokes on his Grantland video shows are funny but they are kind of like Pineapple Express and Hangover stuff, where they aren't for everyone.

I was excited when it was announced he would be on TV, b/c I enjoy his writing and his shows online but once I heard him on there the first few times I knew I wouldn't like him. A lot of his humor, not to mention the tone of his voice on the shows, is not made for a pregame or postgame show where they are trying to be as neutral as possible to appeal to the mass public. He says stuff that is just pure hyperbole sometimes or stuff that just shows his instant thoughts that we know will probably change. Not that it is bad or good, but he looks/feels kind of like a normal fan up there sometimes. And it is not that I don't think he says funny stuff sometimes because he does, it is just that he is so hit-or-miss all the time, though to his credit he has improved with time.

And Stephen A. Smith can say what he does b/c he is on First Take not on the pre and post game shows. When we watch First Take (which I enjoyed this morning) we know what we are getting into. Simmons and Bayless are entertainers. And better TV entertainers than Simmons for that matter.

I still enjoy reading his stuff and grantland, just not on national TV. I guess I just don't think Simmons is as smart as he thinks he is.

edit: the comment they originally censored is just stupid though, no big deal
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 06:09:26
June 15 2013 06:04 GMT
#1228
That's such a tame "joke" it barely is one. ESPN probably just took it out because the average person wouldn't know what the hell Germany has to do with anything if they weren't aware that other players got treatment there.

The ESPN NBA guys seem really terrible in general imo, at least in that capacity ( I like Wilbon and Simmons otherwise).
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 06:17:55
June 15 2013 06:12 GMT
#1229
Maybe but then they could explain it.

They brought Simmons on to add comedy and an edge, because they get killed by TNT and they know it. But then they don't let Simmons be Simmons, so they're just as pale and boring as they were with Greg Anthony and Tim Legler.

They're in this weird unfunny yet still completely generic and uninformative grey area.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 06:25:49
June 15 2013 06:24 GMT
#1230
It just seems like a really big turd of a "joke" for him to bitch about them taking it out, lol. Hopefully there are other things ESPN has edited out otherwise maybe he isn't the man for the job if they wanted the second coming of Barkley. Being funny spontaneously on TV isnt exactly the same thing as writing a 10,000 word funny/interesting editorial.
Ferrose
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States11378 Posts
June 15 2013 12:02 GMT
#1231
On June 15 2013 13:54 DystopiaX wrote:
http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-simmons-rips-espn-for-dwyane-wade-joke-2013-6

starting to think Simmons isn't dumb like he seems on ESPN, he just has to be so PC that he can't actually make jokes or say smart shit.


Wow. I thought it was going to be because Simmons made some borderline racist remark or something. But a joke about Wade going to Germany to get surgery? That's so weak by ESPN...
@113candlemagic Office lady by day, lonely woman at night. | Official lolicon of thread 94273
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13537 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 14:39:10
June 15 2013 14:38 GMT
#1232
OT, but utter madness: http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9386566/2013-nba-playoffs-big-market-vs-small-market

The ongoing mystery of the NBA is why it cares about small-market teams more than the fans do. Oh, fans might say they're concerned about the welfare of the league's smaller outposts and believe the NBA conspires against the lesser markets. Yet those same fans never bother to support the lesser markets, even when it costs nothing more than the electricity needed to power their TV sets.

The Memphis-San Antonio Western Conference finals struggled to draw even half the television audience on ESPN that the Boston-Miami conference finals did the year before. NBA Finals ratings over the years have consistently shown that a shortage of superstars means no shot at a double-digit TV rating. And superstars tend to gravitate toward the big markets.

"Who cares about TV ratings?" is the commonly heard whine from those who don't understand or care about the business of sports. Advertisers and television executives care. And since advertisers pay the TV networks, and the networks are the ones writing billion-dollar checks to sports leagues, there's plenty of reason for the NBA to care about what they care about.

Yet the NBA continues to go out of its way to support the smaller markets. It was willing to lop off 20 percent of the 2011-12 season with a lockout to get a collective bargaining agreement better suited to the have-nots. It allowed the SuperSonics to leave Seattle for Oklahoma City and kept the Kings from leaving Sacramento to replace them. This isn't a perception; it's David Stern's stated goal.

"Everything that we have done in terms of collective bargaining is designed to level the playing field and allow teams that are well managed, no matter what their market size, to be in the Finals," the outgoing commissioner said in his last pre-Finals address to the media.

"This is a league that prides itself on Oklahoma City, Memphis, Salt Lake City, Portland, San Antonio, Sacramento, Indianapolis, on and on and on."

Perhaps they give the league pride, but they don't bring in revenue. Stern said his goal is to make the NBA Finals more like the Super Bowl, which is a television event regardless of the participants. But the NBA will never be the NFL because NFL television money comes from national contracts, not the regional deals that create such huge discrepancies in basketball and baseball. The NFL also has a hard salary cap that makes free agency more restrictive.

The fact that the free agency or trades of just a few premium players can create super teams is actually a strength of the NBA. The Heat have consistently delivered NBA Finals viewership more than any team since the Shaq-Kobe Lakers. And the Heat even managed to do the impossible -- add suspense and intrigue to the NBA's interminable regular season -- through their initial struggles in Year 1 and their 27-game winning streak this season.

But as the new collective bargaining agreement is phased in it will become prohibitively expensive for the Heat to stay together -- or for a replacement to be created.

Stern was asked if the promoter in him could appreciate what the Heat meant to the league and want to see them stay together.

"As a promoter, absolutely," Stern said. "But there are 29 other bosses I have that think it's a great system. And other than the Heat and South Florida media, our league owners think this is a great idea. Because we have owners who want very much to compete. And they want to be able to tell their fans they can compete.

"The Heat have done a great job. They've put together a great roster. They put together perhaps a team for the ages. It has consequences that they are now dealing with, and actually they're much less harsh than the consequences that would have followed had we gotten what we really wanted in the collective bargaining."

It's not 29 other owners. Surely the Lakers and Knicks wouldn't mind the freedom to dispense their TV revenue on their roster in whatever manner they saw fit. But those weren't the voices driving the collective bargaining negotiations. The league was led by the teams who are contributing the least amount of money and bringing the fewest amount of people to the TV sets.

The problem is, in the process of creating a system to deter the Heat and Lakers, the NBA also made it harder on the Thunder and Grizzlies, two teams who traded key players in the past nine months in part due to financial considerations. The luxury tax is just as punitive for them, but they don't have the same revenue streams to compensate for it.

Why should the fans care? Because imbalanced basketball is better than no basketball at all. If the goal is always to accommodate the lesser markets, it won't be met. And eventually that will mean another work stoppage to try to rein in salaries.

If the salary cap, rookie salary cap and luxury tax from previous collective bargaining agreements weren't enough to bring competitive balance and widespread financial health to the league, why should we believe the current CBA will magically accomplish it? We've seen that the owners are willing to sacrifice games to get what they want.

So enjoy these star-laden Finals, which feature four former Finals MVPs in LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Tim Duncan and Tony Parker. You're less likely to see clusters of talent like this in the future. You might get Milwaukee versus Sacramento, though … and you won't be watching.


This just utterly baffles me. Adande genuinely thinks the NBA should favour bigger markets simply because it's better for business and brings in more money.

Do fans want to watch good basketball or big teams with big stars? Am I getting sucked in by ESPN trolling?
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
AntiGrav1ty
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2310 Posts
June 15 2013 15:18 GMT
#1233
With the system in place it's more likely to get superstars/interesting players in small markets, which in turn will increase interest in those teams. At least that's the hope. It just takes time until the consequences can be felt.

But right now he is probably right. I didn't watch Grizzlies vs Spurs nor did I care much who wins that series. I can aknowledge that they are really good teams but I just dont find the players on those teams very interesting. Maybe I'm brainwashed.
www.twitch.tv/antigrav1ty
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
June 15 2013 16:14 GMT
#1234
That's dumb. If the NBA was big market biased teams like the Spurs or Thunder wouldn't exist...no would Miami really. None of these are really "big market teams" (other than SA, kinda). They're just teams that are built well either because their front office is amazing (OKC) or because the stars colluded (Miami). Favoring TV markets over anything else ignores the fact that the most popular teams are the really good ones, not the ones where most people are from. I'd totally watch Milwaukee-Sacto if those were the best 2 teams in the league.
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 17:16:05
June 15 2013 17:10 GMT
#1235
The Spurs are the best team in the last 10 years yet nobody gives a damn about them. Even the self proclaimed NBA "purists" that claim to "love" Spurs basketball barely even turn on league pass to watch their games. You'd rather watch a Miami / OKC game with bodies flying all over the court.

The NBA gets its money from "most fans", not the fans that drool at the thought of watching a Memphis / Indiana or a Spurs / Indiana finals.

Nobody gives a shit about small markets, stop catering to them. Big markets is why the NBA is where it is today. Look at linsanity. That happened in New York and once he got shipped to Houston the national media / entire country could no longer give a shit about Jeremy Lin.
We decide our own destiny
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 17:19:10
June 15 2013 17:18 GMT
#1236
On June 15 2013 23:38 RowdierBob wrote:
Do fans want to watch good basketball or big teams with big stars? Am I getting sucked in by ESPN trolling?


Big teams with big stars is what fans want to watch.

Fans don't actually give a damn if a team executes an offensive play to perfection for stretches at a time so that a no name boring Gary Neal can sink a 3 pointer. And before you say its not boring, and you don't live in San Antonio how many Spurs game did you even bother to watch this season?

Fans only care about perfect offense if Magic Johnson / Chris Paul / LeBron James is running it.
We decide our own destiny
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 17:23:42
June 15 2013 17:21 GMT
#1237
On June 16 2013 02:10 Tien wrote:
The Spurs are the best team in the last 10 years yet nobody gives a damn about them. Even the self proclaimed NBA "purists" that claim to "love" Spurs basketball barely even turn on league pass to watch their games. You'd rather watch a Miami / OKC game with bodies flying all over the court.

The NBA gets its money from "most fans", not the fans that drool at the thought of watching a Memphis / Indiana or a Spurs / Indiana finals.
But this isn't about city or market sizes. These are all small market teams you're talking about, even Miami. The Spurs don't get enough attention for how fun they are to watch, but it's not because OKC has a better market than them.

Nobody gives a shit about small markets, stop catering to them. Big markets is why the NBA is where it is today. Look at linsanity. That happened in New York and once he got shipped to Houston the national media / entire country could no longer give a shit about Jeremy Lin.

He also started sucking. And since when is Houston a small market?
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 15 2013 17:25 GMT
#1238
On June 15 2013 15:12 Jibba wrote:
Maybe but then they could explain it.

They brought Simmons on to add comedy and an edge, because they get killed by TNT and they know it. But then they don't let Simmons be Simmons, so they're just as pale and boring as they were with Greg Anthony and Tim Legler.

They're in this weird unfunny yet still completely generic and uninformative grey area.


He's been dropping subtle bombs on the podcast for months. Like "good thing they have 4 guys to fill 8 minutes of tv time"
Freeeeeeedom
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 17:31:49
June 15 2013 17:27 GMT
#1239
Of course, but imagine what the NBA would be today if Kevin Durant / Russell Westbrook / Harden and Ibaka was in the NYC market instead of OKC? The national market would actually care and they'd get 10x the exposure with all the residual effects for the rest of the NBA.

Fuck small markets and parity, nobody complained about it when Magic and Bird single handedly revived the NBA.

The greatest travesty in NBA is that great teams like the Spurs and OKC are doomed to little markets. If the Knicks had OKC's team and the Celtics had the Spurs team since 1999, the NBA would be in a better place today.
We decide our own destiny
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 17:31:59
June 15 2013 17:31 GMT
#1240
On June 16 2013 02:25 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2013 15:12 Jibba wrote:
Maybe but then they could explain it.

They brought Simmons on to add comedy and an edge, because they get killed by TNT and they know it. But then they don't let Simmons be Simmons, so they're just as pale and boring as they were with Greg Anthony and Tim Legler.

They're in this weird unfunny yet still completely generic and uninformative grey area.


He's been dropping subtle bombs on the podcast for months. Like "good thing they have 4 guys to fill 8 minutes of tv time"

That's really true. Not only are they more congested than TNT's crew usually is (especially since Ernie is just a moderator,) they also get way less air time. Inside the NBA is like 30 minutes pre and 1hr+ after the game. ABC's team gets like 15 minutes before and after.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Prev 1 60 61 62 63 64 133 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
08:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #21
CranKy Ducklings SOOP33
CranKy Ducklings24
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft208
RuFF_SC2 122
EnDerr 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2881
GuemChi 1786
Artosis 600
ProTech162
Dewaltoss 35
Force[name] 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever767
PGG 432
League of Legends
Doublelift5686
Counter-Strike
taco 643
Other Games
summit1g9764
singsing1626
Coldzera 870
fl0m614
JimRising 561
XaKoH 295
C9.Mang0285
Maynarde114
NeuroSwarm78
ViBE69
Fuzer 28
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV146
Counter-Strike
PGL119
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 14
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta27
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 7h
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
IPSL
1d 13h
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
AI Arena Tournament
1d 15h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-04
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.