EPTsorry i cant watch this atm, can you summarize
Richard Lewis banned from Reddit - Page 3
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
sorry i cant watch this atm, can you summarize | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
The only interesting part from that video, IMO, is that one of the reddit mods, BuckeyeSundae, seems to have tried to make amendments to Richard Lewis in a series of PMs BuckeyeSundae sent. In my eyes, BuckeyeSundae was sincere. Then Richard Lewis takes them out and used BuckeyeSundae's words for his own agenda. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 24 2015 03:06 GrandInquisitor wrote: Maybe people are misunderstanding the cause and effect here. One way of looking at it is: * RL posts bad info about mods * Mods ban him from subreddit But my way of looking at it is: * RL has his articles on the subreddit for years * Every article, he goes into the comments and is the most toxic fucking asshole * My personal story, and why I don't like RL: I once disagreed with him about some small issue, and he responded by posting screenshots of my Facebook account. I literally said I liked his article, but I didn't agree with what he said here, and his response was to post publicly a screenshot of my Facebook feed (with my info blacked out) mocking me. I deleted my post, and thankfully he deleted his too. * You will see lots of other similar stories if you browse a few reddit threads: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2o1fk4/the_full_story_about_what_happened_between_rlewis/cmj03ga http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2o1fk4/the_full_story_about_what_happened_between_rlewis/cmiv4m7?context=3 http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2h5ayk/how_fair_is_an_lcs_contract_we_asked_a_lawyer/ckpma52 http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/305hlf/richard_lewis_the_birth_of_toxicity_why_its/cppeh8v?context=5 http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2o1fk4/the_full_story_about_what_happened_between_rlewis/cmj3dmr?context=4 * Mods ban his account from the subreddit after he finally goes too far and mocks some guy by linking to a thread where the guy had contemplated suicide. Maybe he didn't mean to, but framed the way he did, it was pretty bad. I felt ill reading it. * RL goes on a huge expose spree in revenge. He uses the fact that he was banned to try to confuse the issue: if you notice on his NDA post he writes "I was banned shortly before publication". He doesn't say that he was actually banned several days before publication, or why he was banned, and hopes that you will infer that the subreddit was trying to silence him. * Most of reddit sides with their mods. RL now enlists downvote brigades. They don't use Skype groups, but it's pretty much the same. Every time someone posts something negative about RL, he posts a Twitter link and people brigade it. The same thing got TB banned. * RL's content is banned from the subreddit after a month of this activity. * He makes an hour long incoherent video ranting about mod abuse. Forgive me if I'm not too sympathetic to him here. He's had his chance, and I think the subreddit is better off without him or his "valuable esports journalism". PS: It will probably not surprise you that he's chat restricted in League and bitches about Elo hell. Someone needs to make a "Best of Richard Lewis" compilation. These are gold. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On April 24 2015 03:06 GrandInquisitor wrote: * You will see lots of other similar stories if you browse a few reddit threads: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2o1fk4/the_full_story_about_what_happened_between_rlewis/cmj03ga http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2o1fk4/the_full_story_about_what_happened_between_rlewis/cmiv4m7?context=3 http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2h5ayk/how_fair_is_an_lcs_contract_we_asked_a_lawyer/ckpma52 These are things that should be in the official post. If they were, I would be ~ 50% towards agreeing with their decision. Right now, given the official positions (which is what we have to go on) I am 15%. Also, like I said, they need to put in the official rules that linking to reddit posts on twitter/facebook constitutes vote brigading if you want that to be a justification, because referencing a post on an obscure subreddit (once again, not even in the official ruling) is not putting people on notice. It seems like a stupid rule to me, but if its a rule it should be stated explicitly. It seems to me that a lot of people on twitter do this outside of esports with no issues. Not necessary, but I would be interested in official responses from Reddit admins and Riot regarding when they knew, what they knew, and whether they agree with the decision. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
http://www.dailydot.com/authors/richard-lewis/ Do you think these articles, on the whole, have no merits for the /r/leagueoflegends community? | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On April 24 2015 03:26 Ansibled wrote: OK, congratulations on establishing Richard Lewis is a dick in Reddit comments. I didn't realise this was a contentious issue though. He should be banned from Reddit, his content shouldn't. Linking to things on Twitter isn't vote brigading, and if it was Riot content would be banned too. http://www.dailydot.com/authors/richard-lewis/ Do you think these articles, on the whole, have no merits for the /r/leagueoflegends community? Can you please respond to the point I made here? It doesn't matter whether or not his content has merit for the /r/lol community, he was breaking, if not the letter, then at least the spirit of reddit's sitewide rules. | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
anyway i don't see anything irreplaceable with what lewis is doing. someone has to be connected to the news sources, and this does not have to be him. his analysis is also of very poor quality and often or consistently guided by personal bias. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 24 2015 03:26 Ansibled wrote: OK, congratulations on establishing Richard Lewis is a dick in Reddit comments. I didn't realise this was a contentious issue though. He should be banned from Reddit, his content shouldn't. Linking to things on Twitter isn't vote brigading, and if it was Riot content would be banned too. http://www.dailydot.com/authors/richard-lewis/ Do you think these articles, on the whole, have no merits for the /r/leagueoflegends community? They did ban just him, though. They banned him for that like a month ago. And since then he's just been downvote brigading random threads that are critical of him through Twitter. Maybe you don't think of it as downvote brigading, but Reddit thinks it is. It's basically the same as that Skype group everyone was up in arms about. I went through your list of articles. I didn't really think that much of them. If you really loved them, and if there was a way for him to post articles to Reddit and literally never get involved in the comments, I think that's the ideal solution. And that's what they tried, but it didn't work. Personally it looks like most of his articles are tabloid-style rumors; I don't read Perez Hilton and I wouldn't want to see them on the subreddit. A lot of them are also Riot-slams, because Riot is the only thing RL hates more than lol mods. The remainder are mildly interesting, but hey, whatever, there are loads of "mildly interesting" articles out there that I don't read. Losing these is worth not having him on the subreddit. Finally, you're sort of setting a false dichotomy. I don't need to prove that there is literally no merit to these articles. He could have pooped on a rag and people would think that's meritorious. He's just delivering non-essential content in a horribly abusive and rules-violating way, so who gives a shit about him? League will continue to survive without him, and I think that's what galls him the most: the fact that in the end, he's just a failed journalist, while the gaming company he hates is becoming the biggest and most successful esports company in the world. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On April 24 2015 03:29 BrownBear wrote: Can you please respond to the point I made here? It doesn't matter whether or not his content has merit for the /r/lol community, he was breaking, if not the letter, then at least the spirit of reddit's sitewide rules. TotalBiscuit's case was that his Reddit account was going to get banned, not that his content was going to get banned. Right? I find it absurd that linking to posts on Twitter can be considered vote manipulation. The Reddit rules even say that sharing links is ok. On April 24 2015 03:30 AlterKot wrote: Just so we're clear, RLewis called Annsibled a friend/shouted out his work (not sure which it was) on an episode of First Blood so he's clearly biased and there's no reason to argue with him :> He mentioned the blog about the LPL thing I wrote on First Blood. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 24 2015 03:36 Ansibled wrote: I find it absurd that linking to posts on Twitter can be considered vote manipulation. The Reddit rules even say that sharing links is ok. https://twitter.com/MarcMerrill/status/569275726035185664 The point of that post was to disprove your thesis, that linking to posts is not vote manipulation. The fact that TB ultimately was banned in a different way is not essential to the argument. It's all in the intent. RL's brand is "I'm always under attack by The Man!" His fans believe he's always being persecuted. So when he posts a link "what a dumbfuck" or whatever, that's the message he's passing on: "Look at this guy attacking me, and by proxy, you! Get revenge on him!" If RL just posts a status like this: "Here's my latest article", that's probably not a big deal. And if Marc Merrill had posted a status linking to someone criticizing Riot saying "what a dumbfuck", you'd better believe that's vote manipulation. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
can't believe im talking about reddit rules lol | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On April 24 2015 03:36 Ansibled wrote: TotalBiscuit's case was that his Reddit account was going to get banned, not that his content was going to get banned. Right? I find it absurd that linking to posts on Twitter can be considered vote manipulation. The Reddit rules even say that sharing links is ok. https://twitter.com/MarcMerrill/status/569275726035185664 He mentioned the blog about the LPL thing I wrote on First Blood. TB cleaned his act up after this post, but I'm pretty sure if he kept with the twitter brigading, they would have banned his content like they did ongamers'. What RL did was brigading, plain and simple. In this case, it just so happened that /r/lol acted before the admins did. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
If you allow people to share Reddit threads and comments in the first place, then people shouldn't be punished for sharing Reddit threads/comments. If you start talking about intent, then it seems like you can basically start flipping a coin about what kind of sharing is allowed and what isn't. Are comments like this vote manipulation? Sure there are examples where you can say the message definitely is negative towards a Reddit comment. I just don't really see what the problem with sharing this kind of thing is. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oewAsbS.png) If you're allowed to share Reddit posts, but the people you share it with aren't allowed to do anything it seems to defeat the point of sharing. Maybe after a certain number of Twitter followers you're not allowed to share it anymore? The way I interpret the Reddit rules, or the way that makes the most sense to me, is that you can share links, but you can't tell people to vote on them. I think you're still allowed to offer comment on what you link to. Reddit is of course free to do whatever it wants though. Ongamers sent instructions to people telling them when to post and with what title and then sent people to upvote it, the situation is far from similar. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On April 24 2015 03:50 Ansibled wrote: The way I see it is this. If you allow people to share Reddit threads and comments in the first place, then people shouldn't be punished for sharing Reddit threads/comments. Ongamers sent instructions to people telling them when to post and with what title and then sent people to upvote it, the situation is far from similar. Are you not reading what the admin said to TB? What TB did is extremely relevant to RL's situation, because it's the exact same thing. And the admin specifically called him out and said "stop fucking doing this". I'm pretty sure I'm not going to change your mind, though, whether it's due to your connection to RL or whatever other reason you have, so I think we may just have to agree to disagree. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
You often can't. But that's how case law works: we define the line not by trying to create magically comprehensive a priori rules, but by examining individual cases. So the real question before us now, is which side of that hypothetical line is RL's behavior is on. And while reasonable people may disagree as to where exactly the line should be drawn in another case, RL's behavior is pretty blatantly on the wrong side in this case. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On April 24 2015 03:50 Ansibled wrote: The way I see it is this. If you allow people to share Reddit threads and comments in the first place, then people shouldn't be punished for sharing Reddit threads/comments. If you start talking about intent, then it seems like you can basically start flipping a coin about what kind of sharing is allowed and what isn't. it's not only about intent though, it's also about RL's past behavior and current behavior, specifically his mobilization of the forces of social media in this grand conflict of proving he's right on the internet. | ||
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Majax
France816 Posts
I am though concerned about the ban of his content, and I find it troubling. Im' pretty sure I'm not the only one. Content should not be ban from the subbreddit as long at it his relevant, and Richard's content is often extremly relevant. | ||
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