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On May 21 2015 06:56 North2 wrote:
I don't really see what there is to argue about. He's being a bitch to the mods, ignore their warnings on other stuff, and they ban him. There isn't really any defense to be had.
I think the whole 'mods abusing their power' argument is complete bullshit. If you don't like it, why don't you try modding? I sure as hell don't want to even if they paid me to do it. Fuck that shit and everything that comes with it. I would go as far as to say let them abuse their power a little bit if someone's being a constant nagging jackass on twitter.
it's not about banning him, i don' think anyone disagrees with that, it's the content ban.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On May 21 2015 06:56 North2 wrote:
I don't really see what there is to argue about. He's being a bitch to the mods, ignore their warnings on other stuff, and they ban him. There isn't really any defense to be had.
I think the whole 'mods abusing their power' argument is complete bullshit. If you don't like it, why don't you try modding? I sure as hell don't want to even if they paid me to do it. Fuck that shit and everything that comes with it. I would go as far as to say let them abuse their power a little bit if someone's being a constant nagging jackass on twitter.
its not about banning his account but his content.
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On May 21 2015 06:56 North2 wrote:
I don't really see what there is to argue about. He's being a bitch to the mods, ignore their warnings on other stuff, and they ban him. There isn't really any defense to be had.
I think the whole 'mods abusing their power' argument is complete bullshit. If you don't like it, why don't you try modding? I sure as hell don't want to even if they paid me to do it. Fuck that shit and everything that comes with it. I would go as far as to say let them abuse their power a little bit if someone's being a constant nagging jackass on twitter.
Whether there is or isn't something to argue about, we have one whole man who more or less tried to argue Richard's content ban, and that's it.The rest of the people are just holding a "free Richard" sign because it was cool for the first couple of weeks.
We actually started discussing the mods and moderation instead, because the average argument for uplifting Rlewis' content ban, or not issuing it in the first place are as deep as the two replies after your comment.
And you are absolutely right about what you just said about being a moderator.
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oic. That is a little difficult then, considering RL can 'brigade' any thread he wants from twitter even if the guy that posted it has no affiliation with RL.
Whatevs, I don't care.
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On May 21 2015 08:29 North2 wrote:
oic. That is a little difficult then, considering RL can 'brigade' any thread he wants from twitter even if the guy that posted it has no affiliation with RL.
Whatevs, I don't care.
RL's brigade is about as silly as when Suff posts a reddit link in TL thread regarding one of his statistic/data mining projects regarding LoL
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
RL deserves whatever rough handling he gets. i don't really care for reddit's idea of 'neutrality' and there is definitely personal flavor to their handling of lewis, but the bigger asshole here is not the reddit mods.
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On May 21 2015 08:31 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 08:29 North2 wrote:
oic. That is a little difficult then, considering RL can 'brigade' any thread he wants from twitter even if the guy that posted it has no affiliation with RL.
Whatevs, I don't care. RL's brigade is about as silly as when Suff posts a reddit link in TL thread regarding one of his statistic/data mining projects regarding LoL
Tears falling from one of my eye by just thinking about that you think a link in liquidlegends has the same power as Richard basically manipulating the subreddit with his goons. My other eye is tearing up that it sounds like you think a bening link here could be considered as brigading.
Here, I saved you the trouble: www.reddit.com 2nd find in the first page of the Google search.
While it can be a volatile thing to judge, when someone tweets stuff like this twitter.com, with such a follower base, their intention is clear as day to everyone but the blind.
On May 21 2015 08:29 North2 wrote:
oic. That is a little difficult then, considering RL can 'brigade' any thread he wants from twitter even if the guy that posted it has no affiliation with RL.
Whatevs, I don't care.
It's a message. A statement. They are putting their feet down, showing him that while they do not have the manpower to completely ban him and his content out (not that they'd really want that, mind you), they are willing to strike back and they are serious when they demand him to back the fuck off.
On May 21 2015 10:17 oneofthem wrote:
RL deserves whatever rough handling he gets. i don't really care for reddit's idea of 'neutrality' and there is definitely personal flavor to their handling of lewis, but the bigger asshole here is not the reddit mods.
Something almost everyone, but wei2 managed to comprehend. I should watch some of the guy's vlogs, maybe it has some brainwashing effect?
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Do you really think the /r/lol community is better with or without RLewis content? I'd argue it's better, despite his personal squabbles with the /r/lol mods
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On May 21 2015 11:43 wei2coolman wrote:
Do you really think the /r/lol community is better with or without RLewis content? I'd argue it's better, despite his personal squabbles with the /r/lol mods
No, it's not.
Do you think it's the mods fault that Richard kept pumping out shitposts about them (which they even tolerated for a pretty long time), went as far as creating a whole conspiracy theory, just because the mods banned his account which has been warned for a million times before the sanction?
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I don't use reddit and I can keep up to date on everything. Why does everyone care?
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On May 21 2015 11:13 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 08:31 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 08:29 North2 wrote:
oic. That is a little difficult then, considering RL can 'brigade' any thread he wants from twitter even if the guy that posted it has no affiliation with RL.
Whatevs, I don't care. RL's brigade is about as silly as when Suff posts a reddit link in TL thread regarding one of his statistic/data mining projects regarding LoL Tears falling from one of my eye by just thinking about that you think a link in liquidlegends has the same power as Richard basically manipulating the subreddit with his goons. My other eye is tearing up that it sounds like you think a bening link here could be considered as brigading. Here, I saved you the trouble: www.reddit.com 2nd find in the first page of the Google search. While it can be a volatile thing to judge, when someone tweets stuff like this twitter.com, with such a follower base, their intention is clear as day to everyone but the blind. Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 08:29 North2 wrote:
oic. That is a little difficult then, considering RL can 'brigade' any thread he wants from twitter even if the guy that posted it has no affiliation with RL.
Whatevs, I don't care. It's a message. A statement. They are putting their feet down, showing him that while they do not have the manpower to completely ban him and his content out (not that they'd really want that, mind you), they are willing to strike back and they are serious when they demand him to back the fuck off. Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 10:17 oneofthem wrote:
RL deserves whatever rough handling he gets. i don't really care for reddit's idea of 'neutrality' and there is definitely personal flavor to their handling of lewis, but the bigger asshole here is not the reddit mods. Something almost everyone, but wei2 managed to comprehend. I should watch some of the guy's vlogs, maybe it has some brainwashing effect?
You don't even need a link. Do you think when people like Travis, Rlews, Thorin etc would tweet stuff like "just submitted my newest content to reddit. I hope it will be well received" on Twitter people wouldnt look for it? The rule is stupid and banning content is stupid too. Banning content per se while claiming the community decides what they would like to see on the Front Page is hypocritical.
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Until it is shown there are other journalists in the league scene doing investigative work on the level of the whole Move Your Mothers incident, I personally hold the opinion that the merits of RL's content outweighs any benefits a blanket ban on his or related content bring. Plus, he appears to be the only person interested in discussing the organisation/management side of things (I'm referring to things like the GG agency thing, the push-pull between tournament organisers, teams and riot, NDAs and so on here, not player transfers).
However, I acknowledge that /r/lol is what /r/lol is and RL is what he is. Each party has their own vested interest, and are very staunch in their respective positions. Now that things have come to such a severe state I really don't see any compromise from either side in the works. Whether or not the the content-ban is right is besides the point, and will have little impact on any decisions.
Ultimately it's a shame because I now lack an RSS feed of sorts for League-related news/discussion. (I liked using reddit as my newsfeed and not twitter precisely because I want the content and the content only -- there are a number of individuals whose content I enjoy but personalities I might not).
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Why not subscribe to DailyDot and r/lol and get both pieces of content? If anything this whole incident has shown that people believe r/lol is the only way to find the news they need. There are a lot of league related news sites out there that r/lol hasn't content banned and then your RL articles can be found at DailyDot. It's very minimal time investment to go to a second website for League news if the first source disallows that content. I guess people are lazy.
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On May 21 2015 18:54 Chexx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 11:13 Volband wrote:On May 21 2015 08:31 wei2coolman wrote:On May 21 2015 08:29 North2 wrote:
oic. That is a little difficult then, considering RL can 'brigade' any thread he wants from twitter even if the guy that posted it has no affiliation with RL.
Whatevs, I don't care. RL's brigade is about as silly as when Suff posts a reddit link in TL thread regarding one of his statistic/data mining projects regarding LoL Tears falling from one of my eye by just thinking about that you think a link in liquidlegends has the same power as Richard basically manipulating the subreddit with his goons. My other eye is tearing up that it sounds like you think a bening link here could be considered as brigading. Here, I saved you the trouble: www.reddit.com 2nd find in the first page of the Google search. While it can be a volatile thing to judge, when someone tweets stuff like this twitter.com, with such a follower base, their intention is clear as day to everyone but the blind. On May 21 2015 08:29 North2 wrote:
oic. That is a little difficult then, considering RL can 'brigade' any thread he wants from twitter even if the guy that posted it has no affiliation with RL.
Whatevs, I don't care. It's a message. A statement. They are putting their feet down, showing him that while they do not have the manpower to completely ban him and his content out (not that they'd really want that, mind you), they are willing to strike back and they are serious when they demand him to back the fuck off. On May 21 2015 10:17 oneofthem wrote:
RL deserves whatever rough handling he gets. i don't really care for reddit's idea of 'neutrality' and there is definitely personal flavor to their handling of lewis, but the bigger asshole here is not the reddit mods. Something almost everyone, but wei2 managed to comprehend. I should watch some of the guy's vlogs, maybe it has some brainwashing effect? You don't even need a link. Do you think when people like Travis, Rlews, Thorin etc would tweet stuff like "just submitted my newest content to reddit. I hope it will be well received" on Twitter people wouldnt look for it? The rule is stupid and banning content is stupid too. Banning content per se while claiming the community decides what they would like to see on the Front Page is hypocritical.
The rule is a rubber one, but did those people have tweets where they degraded other redditors and just left a link to their (to the ones' attacked) thread, so that their followers could overrun it? It's the exact example in which I absolutely support inconsistency. In the thread where mods revealed their decision about the content ban, none of the tweets from RL which they showed us was about simply linking to his own stuff.
Banning content is around the same stupidity level of what Richard did previously to provoke it. But you are the administrator here, so here's a question! What would you do, if one of your liquidlegends writers, who usually makes pretty entertaining write-ups, constantly calls you and the rest of the liquidlegends team out? Ie. he writes something great about an e-sports event, then his next write-up discusses how incompetent some of you are, and that he just can't stand this amateur hour of his colleges. The ratio would be 3:1 in favor of the good articles. And of course, some of the most nasty stuff would be entirely made up, just because he got into a private argument with some of you, and telling you "fuck you" would not be enough, he'd need to tune the readers against you. Then he would either get into heated arguments with those who does not agree with some of his writings, or simply just edit his article, putting links to the users' profiles and certain posts under the label of "these are the retarded imbeciles this time who thinks they are smarter than me". He'd have a big and loyal follower base, so they would just keep following the guy and give him shit, ganginging him up and whatnot. (Edit: note that he would never say directly to attack them)
If you'd decide to suspend him, at least for a while, then people would make a thread discussing how stupid it was from you, that you do not allow this guy to release his articles here, and you can't just do that. Then whenever you'd try to make them understand that they should look at the big picture, and not just talking about your very last decision, they'd be like "yeah-yeah, whatever, he MIGHT did some questionable things... but still, you can't ban his content!"
And don't tell me it's different. The biggest difference is that Richard is not an r/lol employee, so if you fire your guy, it would create less controversy. But the rest is almost the same: a man with some good qualities and a loving fan base shitting where he'd expect to eat.
On May 21 2015 22:22 Zdrastochye wrote:
Why not subscribe to DailyDot and r/lol and get both pieces of content? If anything this whole incident has shown that people believe r/lol is the only way to find the news they need. There are a lot of league related news sites out there that r/lol hasn't content banned and then your RL articles can be found at DailyDot. It's very minimal time investment to go to a second website for League news if the first source disallows that content. I guess people are lazy.
I've been wondering about this as well. RL got a huuuuuge marketing out of this, everyone was asking around about the drama, so most of the people know where to find him.
On May 21 2015 21:54 ShootAnonymous wrote:
Until it is shown there are other journalists in the league scene doing investigative work on the level of the whole Move Your Mothers incident, I personally hold the opinion that the merits of RL's content outweighs any benefits a blanket ban on his or related content bring. Plus, he appears to be the only person interested in discussing the organisation/management side of things (I'm referring to things like the GG agency thing, the push-pull between tournament organisers, teams and riot, NDAs and so on here, not player transfers).
However, I acknowledge that /r/lol is what /r/lol is and RL is what he is. Each party has their own vested interest, and are very staunch in their respective positions. Now that things have come to such a severe state I really don't see any compromise from either side in the works. Whether or not the the content-ban is right is besides the point, and will have little impact on any decisions.
Ultimately it's a shame because I now lack an RSS feed of sorts for League-related news/discussion. (I liked using reddit as my newsfeed and not twitter precisely because I want the content and the content only -- there are a number of individuals whose content I enjoy but personalities I might not).
Yay, the second guy who mans up to his opinion that certain qualities should outweight their "criminal record". I won't say I necessarily agree with this or not, it's pretty hard to judge, and in the end, it's totally subjective, but at least it gives some talking points. (edit: and the reason I do not try to attempt to discuss it now, because you describe the sitation pretty well in your next paragraphs, showing that you understand what's going on, and it's not a simple case of evil mods hammering away at poor, innocent, baby Richard  )
But repeatedly saying that banning someone's content is not nice leads nowhere and just approaches the very end of this war between the two parties with completely ignoring the context.
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On May 21 2015 22:22 Zdrastochye wrote:
Why not subscribe to DailyDot and r/lol and get both pieces of content? If anything this whole incident has shown that people believe r/lol is the only way to find the news they need. There are a lot of league related news sites out there that r/lol hasn't content banned and then your RL articles can be found at DailyDot. It's very minimal time investment to go to a second website for League news if the first source disallows that content. I guess people are lazy.
Yes, that's exactly what people are. /r/lol is the gateway to the League community, people who are new to the scene will most likely end up there. That is why you hear stories about vote manipulation and people trying to get their posts to the top: the amount of exposure is pretty much unparalleled in the LoL scene. And that is why Richard's content ban is questionable and should be discussed: just how much influence are the mods allowed to have on the subreddit? How much influence is Riot allowed? The RL situation is one that seems to stem from personal grudge, and is based on individual opinions, not because the content he posted (the articles, not his twitter) were not aggressive content directed at hurting the mods.
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On May 21 2015 23:25 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 22:22 Zdrastochye wrote:
Why not subscribe to DailyDot and r/lol and get both pieces of content? If anything this whole incident has shown that people believe r/lol is the only way to find the news they need. There are a lot of league related news sites out there that r/lol hasn't content banned and then your RL articles can be found at DailyDot. It's very minimal time investment to go to a second website for League news if the first source disallows that content. I guess people are lazy. just how much influence are the mods allowed to have on the subreddit?.
Well, how much influence are you allowed to have on your own site?
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Lol get rekt, he probably is guilty in all the charges. The competition on reddit is fierce and resorting to this kind of behavior doesn't seem unnatural to me. I hope he'll never get in again, he better stay rekt.
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Well then as long as r/lol doesn't pitch itself as an open forum to discuss league related material then we should be all good to go. As long as everyone is aware that moderator's personal grudges can result in a ban of a person's content that they create on a different site then I think the conversation is over. If r/lol is attempting to be a place to discuss league related materials then RL content is exactly that. If you've seen the recent drama with them now attempting to say "ok fine we won't moderate anything just to show you what's what" then you can clearly observe that the r/lol moderators are just as childish as RL is. It's a thankless volunteer job that gets them a lot of flak, but as with most things in life it's not about what happens to you it's about how you react to those things that really define what type of a person you are. Both parties equally guilty and sentenced to tongue kissing each other until they die of asphyxiation.
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Richards story is a bit like the one of jesus. First jesus goes to the temple to rebell against the unfair jews. (Richard
rebells against the unfair mods).
Then jesus gets punished to die at the cross for it (Richard gets banned for his rebellion).
The question is, will Richard resurrect from the dead?
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I don't know why I bother posting in this topic any more. There's a slew of people who just basically ignore everything I talk about and just repeatedly post:
"It's about the content ban" / "It's hypocritical" / "It's an open forum"
Even though I specifically called out that this would happen like 5+ pages ago. It seems like there's a bunch of people here just to shovel ideology and aren't interested in critical thinking.
I'm here both because I think RL is a cuntwaffle but also because I think this touches on a lot of fascinating sociological issues. If you're interested in a rational discussion about this very interesting subject, quote some of my posts and start one. Here, I'll get you started with an easy bit:
Everyone seems to agree that RL's behavior justifies a personal ban, but people don't like the RL content ban, and have suggested that it was because they were paid off by Riot or exercising a personal vendetta.
But let's simplify the issue tremendously (avoiding any discussion of vote-brigading) and just frame the issue as follows:
1) Whether intentionally or not, RL's Twitter links were seriously disrupting comment threads;
2) RL was asked to stop and refused;
3) Such disruption was both primarily limited to and almost always found in discussions of RL's content, requiring constant moderator intervention;
4) The moderators believed that this disruption needed to be addressed in some way.
What alternative solution would you suggest for solving the issue? Alternatively, which of these four premises do you not agree with?
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EPT
