EPTRichard Lewis banned from Reddit - Page 2
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On April 23 2015 17:24 Torte de Lini wrote: I didn't read anywhere where the person actually went through with committing suicide. Everyone is pretty keen to take a random throwaway on Reddit seriously when they hate the person it incriminates. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
No it's not, I'm looking at it right now. Right here. Personally I'll just use both. It adds a whole 10 seconds to my day. Also, Richard Lewis is a manchild who has no concept of how to behave professionally. If this had happened to Thorin or one of the other so-called "No Men", there might be reason for people to be upset, but everything that has happened to Richard Lewis is 100% the fault of Richard Lewis the person, not his journalism or anything he would have you believe. The only tragedy here is that he's abandoned his excellent investigative reporting in favor of his more recent smear campaign. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
The truth is, none of that exists. There are probably a few downvote Skype groups out there, but RL is on a crusade against imaginary grand conspiracies that don't exist. He's doing it for the attention, but his followers are just doing it because they want to be mad about something. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 23 2015 18:23 tmv23 wrote: noone is saying RL is a saint, but i enjoy his content and my trust for the r/lol mods is below zero. its evident for me that they abuse their power in seeking their own interest, and act like they own this diverese community of hundreds of thousand people and telling blatant lies to defend themselves. nothing will change though. a few people will switch to r/riotfreelol but the majority will stay, even if they disagree with baning RL's content. which is quite a pity. See, I don't understand posts like these. What exactly are the r/lol mods doing? Remember that after RL got banned, he spent weeks investigating them, and the best he came up with is that they signed an NDA with Riot and they sometimes communicated with Riot to update the sidebar and stuff. Neither of those things are remotely scandalous, but it's the worst dirt he found on them. The real problem with the RL thesis is that there's no real evidence of incentives. For example, if he came up with evidence that the moderators upvoted/promoted someone's YouTube content in exchange for monetary kickbacks, that makes sense. If he showed that the moderators were promised jobs at Riot if they deleted posts critical of Riot, that also makes sense. But his arguments end up being a lot like those of the conspiracy theorists and Holocaust denialists: a lot of random aberrations, without any overarching framework of Why or How, and which crumble as soon as you try to test the theory. Moderators signed an NDA ... but that's evil why? If the moderators are being paid by Riot, why do you constantly see Riot-critical posts on the front page? All he's done is point out random things taken out of context, and can't describe the reason why anyone would supposedly do these things. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Here is the article, it's contains fairly interesting information about the league subreddit. http://www.dailydot.com/esports/reddit-moderators-riot-games-league-of-legends-nda/ What arguments are you seeing like conspiary theories and holocast denials? That's such an absurd comparison. He deserved to be banned from Reddit, but his content should still be allowed. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On April 24 2015 00:52 oneofthem wrote: id ont know about you but a 'journalist' threatening to doxx people should get disbarred or something. like come on. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 24 2015 00:32 Ansibled wrote: Well with that kind of attitude I guess we shouldn't have anyone report anything ever. He just reports information he finds, people see Richard Lewis as a Riot hater and attach that opinion onto his work. Here is the article, it's contains fairly interesting information about the league subreddit. http://www.dailydot.com/esports/reddit-moderators-riot-games-league-of-legends-nda/ What arguments are you seeing like conspiary theories and holocast denials? That's such an absurd comparison. He deserved to be banned from Reddit, but his content should still be allowed. Under the assumption that you're interested in a rational and logical discussion -- the comparison I'm drawing is that RL's "exposes" follows the same format a typical conspiracy theorist's. Get together a lot of little weird data points, make it sound scary, but fail to extend things to their logical conclusion. That article is exactly what I'm talking about. Find me something, anything in there that you think is actually concerning. I guess we should also be defining "concerning". To me, I would be concerned if my content provider was favoring one particular viewpoint or otherwise presenting me biased views. So -- the fact that moderators signed an optional NDA with Riot is of zero concern to me. I've signed hundreds of NDA's in my life. They are standard operating procedure in the business world. It's about as relevant as being told that the moderators play League of Legends in their free time. I'm missing the logical link of -- "Because lol moderators have an NDA, they are corrupting the subreddit". What's the danger? How does that translate to "moderators suppressing anti-Riot sentiment"? Let's put it this way. What evidence would convince you to change your mind, that the moderators are doing the right thing? I'll tell you what evidence would convince me to change my mind: if there's any evidence that they were promised financial or other rewards in exchange for performing certain actions. I haven't seen anything yet. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 24 2015 02:21 Ansibled wrote: Where does he make it sound scary in the article? The article is framed to suggest that the NDA represents a conflict of interest for the moderators. For example: In a bid to keep the site impartial and free from corporate influence, the site restricts moderators from forming agreements with outside entities. This implies that the moderators are violating Reddit's TOS and thus no longer impartial and free from corporate influence. It doesn't actually violate the Reddit TOS, but more importantly, an NDA doesn't actually create a conflict of interest or "corporate influence", not unless you have no understanding of what an NDA is. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On April 24 2015 02:12 GrandInquisitor wrote: Under the assumption that you're interested in a rational and logical discussion -- the comparison I'm drawing is that RL's "exposes" follows the same format a typical conspiracy theorist's. Get together a lot of little weird data points, make it sound scary, but fail to extend things to their logical conclusion. That article is exactly what I'm talking about. Find me something, anything in there that you think is actually concerning. I guess we should also be defining "concerning". To me, I would be concerned if my content provider was favoring one particular viewpoint or otherwise presenting me biased views. So -- the fact that moderators signed an optional NDA with Riot is of zero concern to me. I've signed hundreds of NDA's in my life. They are standard operating procedure in the business world. It's about as relevant as being told that the moderators play League of Legends in their free time. I'm missing the logical link of -- "Because lol moderators have an NDA, they are corrupting the subreddit". What's the danger? How does that translate to "moderators suppressing anti-Riot sentiment"? Let's put it this way. What evidence would convince you to change your mind, that the moderators are doing the right thing? I'll tell you what evidence would convince me to change my mind: if there's any evidence that they were promised financial or other rewards in exchange for performing certain actions. I haven't seen anything yet. Well, for one, thats exactly the same kind of evidence they used in banning Richard Lewis: Look at this tweet, look how that post got downvoted. See, the issue with the logic of "the NDA is not a big deal" is if its not, you disclose it up front. I've read them, I'm an attorney, I understand they are fairly benign, thats not the issue. The only reason the NDA story is interesting is that they banned RLewis following it, indicating that they are extremely thin-skinned. For me to change my mind and say, "the Richard Lewis decision is sound" I'd like several, if not all, of the mods out themselves ala Andy "Reginald" Dihn, release actual evidence of threats of some sort of illegal activity by RLewis, and establish an official banlist with stated reasons for the each ban. Right now the ban just appears, on its face, to be a series of excuses to try and prevent the /r/lol userbase from seeing articles from RLewis in the future, articles that they think will be detrimental to them. That explanation is the simplest and most logical reason for the ban given the evidence we have. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 24 2015 02:31 cLutZ wrote: Well, for one, thats exactly the same kind of evidence they used in banning Richard Lewis: Look at this tweet, look how that post got downvoted. Here's the difference. RL has a vested interest in what he's doing. He is drawing attention to himself, building his brand, and getting financially compensated for it. He has every reason in the world to be creating drama, be it real or fake. The evidence from the moderators fits into an overall framework. His evidence does not. See, the issue with the logic of "the NDA is not a big deal" is if its not, you disclose it up front. I've read them, I'm an attorney, I understand they are fairly benign, thats not the issue. The only reason the NDA story is interesting is that they banned RLewis following it, indicating that they are extremely thin-skinned. You realize they banned RL before that, right? It even says it right in RL's article. He was banned from the subreddit for extremely abusive and toxic behavior. This was obvious to anyone who's ever been in a RL article thread before. These articles were the result of his ban, not the reason. For me to change my mind and say, "the Richard Lewis decision is sound" I'd like several, if not all, of the mods out themselves ala Andy "Reginald" Dihn, release actual evidence of threats of some sort of illegal activity by RLewis, and establish an official banlist with stated reasons for the each ban. Why do they have to out themselves? Didn't they post pictures of RL harassing them on Facebook? Didn't they post evidence of RL brigading discussion topics? Isn't that a reasonable justification for a ban given Reddit's sidewide policies? Right now the ban just appears, on its face, to be a series of excuses to try and prevent the /r/lol userbase from seeing articles from RLewis in the future, articles that they think will be detrimental to them. That explanation is the simplest and most logical reason for the ban given the evidence we have. I agree it's a potential reason. I disagree that it's the simplest and most logical reason, given that RL's big moderator expose has come and gone. You would think that if that was their goal, they wouldn't announce the ban so publicly. Moreover, it seems as though it's a decision with approval from reddit administrators, suggesting that it implicated issues beyond just covering their ass. Finally, they've also given a fairly compelling alternative suggestion for their decision, which is his continued harassment of Reddit users and moderators. Those seem like good reasons to disassociate the subreddit from him, given that a full ban on his account was insufficient. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
I can give you another examples of RL's biases, on this article: http://www.dailydot.com/esports/bot-ofl-legends-league-of-legends-hackers/ Riot’s initiatives to combat in-game hacking have been mostly ineffective. A one-liner attack on Riot without any evidence or research whatsoever. Similar to the NDA issue. Sure, I think some of his other articles are fine, but when the topic has to do with Riot Games it becomes a shitshow. At the end of the day, I find that Richard Lewis's contents often have huge conflict of interests, usually with his perceived grudge against Riot Games. This is pretty ironic, considering he does accuse other people of conflict of interests a lot while waving his flag of journalistic integrity. For example, did you know that he accused esports express of conflict of interests? Apparently, it was due to HOT_BID working on a satirical news site while simultaneously be a "retired" staff member on Teamliquid. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
That is the sum of the post. All other things brought to light were basically brought up by Lewis himself saying "I did this, because X and I went Y far." | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
I dunno if this has been brought up here yet, but the biggest thing I've seen RL's defenders fail to address is RL using twitter to brigade posts on Reddit despite his ban. That appears to have been what forced the mods' hand, and there's precedent for it being against Reddit's sitewide rules here. In case anyone is wondering, that deleted account the admin is admonishing is TotalBiscuit. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
* RL posts bad info about mods * Mods ban him from subreddit But my way of looking at it is: * RL has his articles on the subreddit for years * Every article, he goes into the comments and is the most toxic fucking asshole * My personal story, and why I don't like RL: I once disagreed with him about some small issue, and he responded by posting screenshots of my Facebook account. I literally said I liked his article, but I didn't agree with what he said here, and his response was to post publicly a screenshot of my Facebook feed (with my info blacked out) mocking me. I deleted my post, and thankfully he deleted his too. * You will see lots of other similar stories if you browse a few reddit threads: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2o1fk4/the_full_story_about_what_happened_between_rlewis/cmj03ga http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2o1fk4/the_full_story_about_what_happened_between_rlewis/cmiv4m7?context=3 http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2h5ayk/how_fair_is_an_lcs_contract_we_asked_a_lawyer/ckpma52 http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/305hlf/richard_lewis_the_birth_of_toxicity_why_its/cppeh8v?context=5 http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2o1fk4/the_full_story_about_what_happened_between_rlewis/cmj3dmr?context=4 * Mods ban his account from the subreddit after he finally goes too far and mocks some guy by linking to a thread where the guy had contemplated suicide. Maybe he didn't mean to, but framed the way he did, it was pretty bad. I felt ill reading it. * RL goes on a huge expose spree in revenge. He uses the fact that he was banned to try to confuse the issue: if you notice on his NDA post he writes "I was banned shortly before publication". He doesn't say that he was actually banned several days before publication, or why he was banned, and hopes that you will infer that the subreddit was trying to silence him. * Most of reddit sides with their mods. RL now enlists downvote brigades. They don't use Skype groups, but it's pretty much the same. Every time someone posts something negative about RL, he posts a Twitter link and people brigade it. The same thing got TB banned. * RL's content is banned from the subreddit after a month of this activity. * He makes an hour long incoherent video ranting about mod abuse. Forgive me if I'm not too sympathetic to him here. He's had his chance, and I think the subreddit is better off without him or his "valuable esports journalism". PS: It will probably not surprise you that he's chat restricted in League and bitches about Elo hell. | ||
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I meant Libel
