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57 Corvette
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada5941 Posts
December 07 2011 04:18 GMT
#1701
On December 07 2011 13:16 Zooper31 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 12:56 57 Corvette wrote:
Firstpick mundo, says he is going bot and needs a support.

Nothing to do here. *dodge*


Maybe he was getting rdy to build 6warmogs?


Well, I didn't want to waste 20 mins on that game that I could be spending sleeping/fapping/browsing TL.
Survival is winning, everything else is bullshit.
Hipsv
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
135 Posts
December 07 2011 04:53 GMT
#1702
Just got another account to 30, first game I'm playing WW as jungle (3rd pick first pick was ad carry), so I'm doing pretty well by the mid game, Finishing off madreds, have wits/sv/stark's so I'm fairly tanky but do a pretty respectable amount of damage, and they all focus me in a teamfight, but I'm outhealing their damage, only to realize THEY ARE ALL FOCUSING MALPHITE THE TANK. Eventually I was maxed out and 18 and most of them were still 15/16 and the other team was 18 with enough items to kill me with malz's ult and ever since that game I have had 4 games in a row of a feeder or a DC into 20 min surrender FML. I didn't even rage at all during the games just tried to give helpful tips.

For real Riot's MM system is actually terrible. It just seems like they will throw a 1300 elo player in with two 1100 players and two 1000 players and then have that fight a 1150 team and think that that is an acceptable match when in reality it basically leads to the better player raging and tilting because of nooby players who end up feeding or playing badly.

I think ELO in general is actually a horrid system for team games especially basing it ONLY on win or loss when a mistake by a player or two end game can cost you the game. I could be an AD carry and be 15/2/9 and still lose a game because the tank and another dps got caught out, doesn't mean that I was a worse player than the other team, but I'm going to lose elo because of someone else's mistake.

I also don't agree with the ELO system TLPD uses for example because playing more games will grant you much more ELO than beating better players, TaeJa was a huge Example of this, he won tons of games in ESV weeklies and ended up being 2nd ELO forever under MVP, but did anyone think he could or should be the favorite against players like DRG/NesTea? nope clearly not. Don't mistake this as me hating TaeJa because I do like him, I just don't feel he was ever the second best player.

But anyways I seriously think that riot needs to Rework their MM system. Firstly no more of the 1300 + 1100+1100+1000+1000 = 1200 team stupidity. Secondly they should assess the role you have (AD carry/jungle/tank/support) and work your ELO loss/gain based on your performance. For example if I am a tank and I end up with a 3/5/21 record, with millions of damage taken at the end, that's fairly indicative that you did your job quite well and you should gain more ELO than a 1/9/5 AD carry who totally flat out kept the other team in the game. IF you are a support and have a 9/1/10 record you should gain less points than a support with a 0/4/22 record ect.

A system like that encourages players to perform their role well and will also punish poor players even upon winning so you don't get a 1400 team with a player who had lucky MM again and again and is really only a 1100 player.

This is a good thread helps you get all your pent up anger out in a constructive way haha.
Alay
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States660 Posts
December 07 2011 05:47 GMT
#1703
Solo queue, pick gangplank and go top--only hope of getting out of trollsville low ELO.

farm >300CS, go 12/1/14ish, zone Nasus so painfully hard, and push that lane down to the base. FINISH BUILD. GET PENTAKILL WHEN 2v5 AND BARON STEAL.

Still lose because two people on the team refuse to actually stay with the team and just suicide feed.

Lose 48 ELO.



=/
Soloside
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1238 Posts
December 07 2011 07:19 GMT
#1704
On December 07 2011 12:14 CeriseCherries wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 11:53 Soloside wrote:
how come i've never been trolled super dooper hard in ranked/normals.


something's wrong here.


you must be the troll


fml. just got trolled by duo queue. I pick swain mid. Retards go shaco/shen. Shaco takes blue buff.

Instawin game with blue-less swain. IMMIRITE?

obvi vs lane against leblanc.
LoL: Taylor Swift | King Kayle
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31494 Posts
December 07 2011 08:43 GMT
#1705
On December 07 2011 16:19 Soloside wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 12:14 CeriseCherries wrote:
On December 07 2011 11:53 Soloside wrote:
how come i've never been trolled super dooper hard in ranked/normals.


something's wrong here.


you must be the troll


fml. just got trolled by duo queue. I pick swain mid. Retards go shaco/shen. Shaco takes blue buff.

Instawin game with blue-less swain. IMMIRITE?

obvi vs lane against leblanc.

You jinxed it bro.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Hynda
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden2226 Posts
December 07 2011 13:08 GMT
#1706
The problem with riots elo is simply the fact that they put waaaaay to much stock into the map. The difference between Purple and Blue acording to riot is 200 elo and that simply isn't true.
DrMedic
Profile Joined March 2010
United States37 Posts
December 07 2011 14:00 GMT
#1707
Pick ashe, trading with kills in bot lane.
End up out farming bot lane and getting wayyy ahead.

At this point if I am just protected everyone will die.

Team tries to surrender because they are a bunch of idiots.

Teamfight middle, I ult the cass who is 5-0 and we destroy her.
No one protects me and I get singed flipped and burst down by graves.

"GG noob ashe dont know how to initiate and feed"

*surrender vote 4 to 1*

DEFEAT!!!

zzz why cant people realize that once your ashe has inifini and phantoms all you have to do is protect her and win.
lolwut
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
December 07 2011 15:06 GMT
#1708
On December 07 2011 22:08 Hynda wrote:
The problem with riots elo is simply the fact that they put waaaaay to much stock into the map. The difference between Purple and Blue acording to riot is 200 elo and that simply isn't true.

I'm pretty sure it's 20 not 200
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
ninjakingcola
Profile Joined March 2011
United States405 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-07 16:34:03
December 07 2011 16:33 GMT
#1709
In champ select I say ban Akali. First pick says she's not a problem. I say someone always feeds her. First pick says not a problem. Other team grabs Akali. First pick says not a problem. First pick grabs Swain. I grab Garen to hard counter that bitch. I end up midding vs Akali and destroying her till lvl 7 when she switches with Singed who was top. Singed is farmed, Swain gives Akali her first and second kill. Bitch begins snowballing hard against our team, I can't stick on her in a fight because of Udyr/Singed keeping me pinned down, she snowballs into godmode, mostly off of Swain. Alistar blames me for the loss because I tried to take an inhib and Cait while he and swain attmepted to 2v2 the other team when the other team was on baron and my teammates lost. Sometimes you just can't carry hard enough, and Akali is always a problem.
Where my demons hide? Why, if I showed you it wouldn't be a secret my dear.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
December 07 2011 16:49 GMT
#1710
There really needs to be like, a better tutorial or like a school for some people.

There are simple concepts that you just need to know. Like, late game, stay together. Backdooring is fine, but when there's 3 people pushing, the tank is in the jungle, and the AD carry is doing whatever, those 3 people are going to get anally punished in the butt. EVERY SINGLE GAME. It's one thing when it's one idiot is off doing whatever, but it's something else when the two teams are poking at a turret and 3 people on your team just walk away to farm or something.

allofmyrage
It's your boy Guzma!
Soloside
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1238 Posts
December 07 2011 17:06 GMT
#1711
how does a 17xx player only get 83 cs in 20 minutes as gp top.

so so so so confused.

Why he trolling me so hard. T_T
LoL: Taylor Swift | King Kayle
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
December 07 2011 17:12 GMT
#1712
On December 08 2011 02:06 Soloside wrote:
how does a 17xx player only get 83 cs in 20 minutes as gp top.

so so so so confused.

Why he trolling me so hard. T_T

He ate 83 oranges in 20minutes, cs not showing for gp.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
December 07 2011 18:45 GMT
#1713
On December 07 2011 13:53 Hipsv wrote:
Just got another account to 30, first game I'm playing WW as jungle (3rd pick first pick was ad carry), so I'm doing pretty well by the mid game, Finishing off madreds, have wits/sv/stark's so I'm fairly tanky but do a pretty respectable amount of damage, and they all focus me in a teamfight, but I'm outhealing their damage, only to realize THEY ARE ALL FOCUSING MALPHITE THE TANK. Eventually I was maxed out and 18 and most of them were still 15/16 and the other team was 18 with enough items to kill me with malz's ult and ever since that game I have had 4 games in a row of a feeder or a DC into 20 min surrender FML. I didn't even rage at all during the games just tried to give helpful tips.

For real Riot's MM system is actually terrible. It just seems like they will throw a 1300 elo player in with two 1100 players and two 1000 players and then have that fight a 1150 team and think that that is an acceptable match when in reality it basically leads to the better player raging and tilting because of nooby players who end up feeding or playing badly.

I think ELO in general is actually a horrid system for team games especially basing it ONLY on win or loss when a mistake by a player or two end game can cost you the game. I could be an AD carry and be 15/2/9 and still lose a game because the tank and another dps got caught out, doesn't mean that I was a worse player than the other team, but I'm going to lose elo because of someone else's mistake.

I also don't agree with the ELO system TLPD uses for example because playing more games will grant you much more ELO than beating better players, TaeJa was a huge Example of this, he won tons of games in ESV weeklies and ended up being 2nd ELO forever under MVP, but did anyone think he could or should be the favorite against players like DRG/NesTea? nope clearly not. Don't mistake this as me hating TaeJa because I do like him, I just don't feel he was ever the second best player.

But anyways I seriously think that riot needs to Rework their MM system. Firstly no more of the 1300 + 1100+1100+1000+1000 = 1200 team stupidity. Secondly they should assess the role you have (AD carry/jungle/tank/support) and work your ELO loss/gain based on your performance. For example if I am a tank and I end up with a 3/5/21 record, with millions of damage taken at the end, that's fairly indicative that you did your job quite well and you should gain more ELO than a 1/9/5 AD carry who totally flat out kept the other team in the game. IF you are a support and have a 9/1/10 record you should gain less points than a support with a 0/4/22 record ect.

A system like that encourages players to perform their role well and will also punish poor players even upon winning so you don't get a 1400 team with a player who had lucky MM again and again and is really only a 1100 player.

This is a good thread helps you get all your pent up anger out in a constructive way haha.


this will not work. at all. 1st off, elo is the only method you can reasonably use for matchmaking. There's just no way around it, so it's not going anywhere. Second, your system of gaining elo per role will not work because many champs can be played in many roles. Take cow for instance, who is easily one of the most versatile champs in the game: he can play AP nuker, AD bruiser, straight tank, support, and jungle all well enough to be considered 'viable'. So how are you going to gauge how well he did based on any of his stats if you pigeonhole the reward system into a specific category.

If everything was clear cut like it is, for example, in most mmo's where you have pretty distinct paradigms used for the class system, you may be able to implement something like that, but when you have a game where champions break their traditional 'roles' all the time, it's nearly impossible to track what would be considered 'good' via stats, you would have to create such a complicated algorithm taking into account both your team composition and the enemy composition among other things that it gets overly complicated and probably just ends up bad anyways.
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
Hynda
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden2226 Posts
December 07 2011 18:56 GMT
#1714
On December 08 2011 00:06 starfries wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 22:08 Hynda wrote:
The problem with riots elo is simply the fact that they put waaaaay to much stock into the map. The difference between Purple and Blue acording to riot is 200 elo and that simply isn't true.

I'm pretty sure it's 20 not 200

nope 200.
Cosmology
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada360 Posts
December 07 2011 19:11 GMT
#1715
I'm a 960 ELO Solo Top main, anyone wana duo queue with me? i play Renekton, Riven, Irelia, Singed, Teemo, Kennen and Nasus if they pick singed/cho.

Earlier, I was Teemo against a Trynd, go 3-0, double his CS and 1 gank while shrooming everything around Top and still lose T.T
Somewhere, something amazing is waiting to be known.
Hipsv
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
135 Posts
December 07 2011 19:39 GMT
#1716
On December 08 2011 03:45 barbsq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 13:53 Hipsv wrote:
Just got another account to 30, first game I'm playing WW as jungle (3rd pick first pick was ad carry), so I'm doing pretty well by the mid game, Finishing off madreds, have wits/sv/stark's so I'm fairly tanky but do a pretty respectable amount of damage, and they all focus me in a teamfight, but I'm outhealing their damage, only to realize THEY ARE ALL FOCUSING MALPHITE THE TANK. Eventually I was maxed out and 18 and most of them were still 15/16 and the other team was 18 with enough items to kill me with malz's ult and ever since that game I have had 4 games in a row of a feeder or a DC into 20 min surrender FML. I didn't even rage at all during the games just tried to give helpful tips.

For real Riot's MM system is actually terrible. It just seems like they will throw a 1300 elo player in with two 1100 players and two 1000 players and then have that fight a 1150 team and think that that is an acceptable match when in reality it basically leads to the better player raging and tilting because of nooby players who end up feeding or playing badly.

I think ELO in general is actually a horrid system for team games especially basing it ONLY on win or loss when a mistake by a player or two end game can cost you the game. I could be an AD carry and be 15/2/9 and still lose a game because the tank and another dps got caught out, doesn't mean that I was a worse player than the other team, but I'm going to lose elo because of someone else's mistake.

I also don't agree with the ELO system TLPD uses for example because playing more games will grant you much more ELO than beating better players, TaeJa was a huge Example of this, he won tons of games in ESV weeklies and ended up being 2nd ELO forever under MVP, but did anyone think he could or should be the favorite against players like DRG/NesTea? nope clearly not. Don't mistake this as me hating TaeJa because I do like him, I just don't feel he was ever the second best player.

But anyways I seriously think that riot needs to Rework their MM system. Firstly no more of the 1300 + 1100+1100+1000+1000 = 1200 team stupidity. Secondly they should assess the role you have (AD carry/jungle/tank/support) and work your ELO loss/gain based on your performance. For example if I am a tank and I end up with a 3/5/21 record, with millions of damage taken at the end, that's fairly indicative that you did your job quite well and you should gain more ELO than a 1/9/5 AD carry who totally flat out kept the other team in the game. IF you are a support and have a 9/1/10 record you should gain less points than a support with a 0/4/22 record ect.

A system like that encourages players to perform their role well and will also punish poor players even upon winning so you don't get a 1400 team with a player who had lucky MM again and again and is really only a 1100 player.

This is a good thread helps you get all your pent up anger out in a constructive way haha.


this will not work. at all. 1st off, elo is the only method you can reasonably use for matchmaking. There's just no way around it, so it's not going anywhere. Second, your system of gaining elo per role will not work because many champs can be played in many roles. Take cow for instance, who is easily one of the most versatile champs in the game: he can play AP nuker, AD bruiser, straight tank, support, and jungle all well enough to be considered 'viable'. So how are you going to gauge how well he did based on any of his stats if you pigeonhole the reward system into a specific category.

If everything was clear cut like it is, for example, in most mmo's where you have pretty distinct paradigms used for the class system, you may be able to implement something like that, but when you have a game where champions break their traditional 'roles' all the time, it's nearly impossible to track what would be considered 'good' via stats, you would have to create such a complicated algorithm taking into account both your team composition and the enemy composition among other things that it gets overly complicated and probably just ends up bad anyways.


I know that, I was just venting a bit since I had tons of shitty teams in a row where it basically came down to me carrying the team hard enough to either win or lose as riven/ww from the jungle. I'd rather be in a game where I do worse, but its a much closer game than be in a complete blowout either way which is all Low ELO seems to be, one team blows out the other and the game is over by 15 mins or so but being low ELO they all care so much about their ELO so they drag it out over 50 minutes.
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
December 07 2011 19:41 GMT
#1717
On December 08 2011 03:56 Hynda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 00:06 starfries wrote:
On December 07 2011 22:08 Hynda wrote:
The problem with riots elo is simply the fact that they put waaaaay to much stock into the map. The difference between Purple and Blue acording to riot is 200 elo and that simply isn't true.

I'm pretty sure it's 20 not 200

nope 200.

source?
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
Enox
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany1667 Posts
December 07 2011 21:10 GMT
#1718
On December 08 2011 01:49 Requizen wrote:
There really needs to be like, a better tutorial or like a school for some people.

There are simple concepts that you just need to know. Like, late game, stay together. Backdooring is fine, but when there's 3 people pushing, the tank is in the jungle, and the AD carry is doing whatever, those 3 people are going to get anally punished in the butt. EVERY SINGLE GAME. It's one thing when it's one idiot is off doing whatever, but it's something else when the two teams are poking at a turret and 3 people on your team just walk away to farm or something.

allofmyrage

do you realize that 99% of the ppl who post here are lvl 30 and play ranked games? the guys they complain about are lvl 30 players with a shit load of played games, no newbies who would need a better tutorial -.-
If you think it's too hard there are solutions other than asking for a nerf, getting better is the first that comes to mind.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
December 07 2011 21:51 GMT
#1719
On December 08 2011 06:10 Enox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 01:49 Requizen wrote:
There really needs to be like, a better tutorial or like a school for some people.

There are simple concepts that you just need to know. Like, late game, stay together. Backdooring is fine, but when there's 3 people pushing, the tank is in the jungle, and the AD carry is doing whatever, those 3 people are going to get anally punished in the butt. EVERY SINGLE GAME. It's one thing when it's one idiot is off doing whatever, but it's something else when the two teams are poking at a turret and 3 people on your team just walk away to farm or something.

allofmyrage

do you realize that 99% of the ppl who post here are lvl 30 and play ranked games? the guys they complain about are lvl 30 players with a shit load of played games, no newbies who would need a better tutorial -.-

I'm also level 30, that doesn't stop people from being stupid. Time invested != skill, that 1600 Teemo isn't helping when he abandons a teamfight to put a shroom at baron when all five enemies are visible in front of us and are pushing.

Derps going to derp.
It's your boy Guzma!
Enox
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany1667 Posts
December 07 2011 22:02 GMT
#1720
but you think a better tutorial will teach them what they cant learn in 1k+ games? i doubt it
If you think it's too hard there are solutions other than asking for a nerf, getting better is the first that comes to mind.
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