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On October 11 2020 11:41 AttackZerg wrote:
That is a libelous accusation.
Why would you say that without proof. You are calling real people, liars and cheats .... because your player didn't win games?
Very fucking uncool.
I'm not calling anyone a liar or a cheat, and i'm not accusing Serral of cheating his way to a win or anything. Doesn't even matter, Maru is still in it and Serral is out. Its their tournament, their money and they can run it however they please, and we as spectators should be free to question that. I'll just say that its funny that out of 16 players they got Maru vs Serral as an opening match. Surely if any seeding was done the first Korean to make it thru the qualifiers would not face the #1 EU seed right?
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The people and sponsors who are running this tournament are the people you are calling liars and cheats.
If they did what you say, they would have potentially committed a crime.
What you are saying is incredibly libelous.
If you do not have proof, I stand by my comment, Very Uncool.
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On October 11 2020 10:27 Morbidius wrote:
Tournament organizers fucked Trap over pretty hard to rig the Maru/Serral match. 3 easy groups and you shoehorn the best Protoss in the tournament with Maru and Serral?
Don't fucking tell me this was a random draw, the opening match of the tournament being the impossible matchup fans desired for 2 years? Have the decency to put the best Protoss in the world(the other contender for the title was literally in the hospital) in a fair group.
This is inconsistent nonsense. SCII bracket rigging accusations are flimsy conspiracy theories at their best, and this is probably one of the worst ones.
If the organizers were rigging the groups to get Maru/Serral, why would they have to screw over Trap to do so? They could arrange the groups however they wanted. And in years of semi-randomized brackets, Maru vs Serral was going to happen eventually--calling foul with no evidence when that eventuality eventually happened is a bit much. Well salty fans have to complain about something.
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On October 11 2020 03:50 MarianoSC2 wrote:I think this may be the 4th time in a row Maru beating Inno and kinda easily as well. Who would have thought? Inno always had Marus number, his style looked like a hardcounter to Maru for years and now the tides have turned massively. Happy to see Maru in the finals  I hope it's against TY. Against Cure it would be too one sided
always had his number? Maru swept Inno in SSL a while back
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On October 11 2020 12:43 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2020 12:11 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 11 2020 10:27 Morbidius wrote:
Tournament organizers fucked Trap over pretty hard to rig the Maru/Serral match. 3 easy groups and you shoehorn the best Protoss in the tournament with Maru and Serral?
Don't fucking tell me this was a random draw, the opening match of the tournament being the impossible matchup fans desired for 2 years? Have the decency to put the best Protoss in the world(the other contender for the title was literally in the hospital) in a fair group. This is inconsistent nonsense. SCII bracket rigging accusations are flimsy conspiracy theories at their best, and this is probably one of the worst ones. If the organizers were rigging the groups to get Maru/Serral, why would they have to screw over Trap to do so? They could arrange the groups however they wanted. And in years of semi-randomized brackets, Maru vs Serral was going to happen eventually--calling foul with no evidence when that eventuality eventually happened is a bit much. Well salty fans have to complain about something. Oh well, Its Starcraft and we all know no one ever did something questionable in these 22 great years. Either way this isn't ''questionable'' or ''libelous'', its just a matter of how seeding is done(or how its not done). If i wanted to sink into ''flimsy'' conspiracies i would still be telling people its not normal to build a third CC when you're being spine crawler rushed.
Good thing the community is there with its unerring acumen to call every throw matchfixing, and every bracket with an abnormal number of mirror match-ups as rigged (never mind basic statistics, or tournament organizer motivations).
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On October 11 2020 12:43 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2020 12:11 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On October 11 2020 10:27 Morbidius wrote:
Tournament organizers fucked Trap over pretty hard to rig the Maru/Serral match. 3 easy groups and you shoehorn the best Protoss in the tournament with Maru and Serral?
Don't fucking tell me this was a random draw, the opening match of the tournament being the impossible matchup fans desired for 2 years? Have the decency to put the best Protoss in the world(the other contender for the title was literally in the hospital) in a fair group. This is inconsistent nonsense. SCII bracket rigging accusations are flimsy conspiracy theories at their best, and this is probably one of the worst ones. If the organizers were rigging the groups to get Maru/Serral, why would they have to screw over Trap to do so? They could arrange the groups however they wanted. And in years of semi-randomized brackets, Maru vs Serral was going to happen eventually--calling foul with no evidence when that eventuality eventually happened is a bit much. Well salty fans have to complain about something. Oh well, Its Starcraft and we all know no one ever did something questionable in these 22 great years. Either way this isn't ''questionable'' or ''libelous'', its just a matter of how seeding is done(or how its not done). If i wanted to sink into ''flimsy'' conspiracies i would still be telling people its not normal to build a third CC when you're being spine crawler rushed.
I understand your frustration, but you do not have evidence of the bracket being rigged.
If you claim the bracket is rigged to put Maru and Serral in the same group to make sure they meet, I can see that reasoning (even though there is no evidence of bracket rigging I must state).
However, there is no plausible reason to claim that Trap is screwed over because of that group. Neither Maru nor Serral is the undisputed number one player in their respective region, and in Maru's case, he is in 9th place, and lower ranking than Trap at the time of the bracket announcement.
If you look at group D, you got Reynor and Innovation, who have higher ranking than Serral and Maru in their respective region. By your logic, the other two player in their group is also deliberately put there so that they will not be able to get into the playoff, which is totally untrue.
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I was watching TY vs Rogue, why is it that since Infested Terrans got removed, nobody makes Infestors anymore in ZvT?
I feel like if you're going that heavy on ultra/ling/bane, a few Infestors for fungals would destroy that 4M army.
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On October 11 2020 08:43 HugoBallzak wrote:
Even with all the widow mine shots the games went the distance for the most part so its nice to see terrans have some sort of ability to keep the zerg economy in check before entering the late game.
Wait till zerg learn to defend it properly, then we will be back to the same shit of zerg economy running out of control entering late game.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On October 11 2020 11:13 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2020 10:33 Xain0n wrote:
Random draws, you know, are random? It may very well happen that uneven groups are drawn.
Trap had his chance to get out of the group, he was unlucky but he had his opportunities to beat Maru. Random draws where we don't have a single bit of information on how they're done get the most hyped matchup in the history of SC2 as a opening match! So lucky! (Fuck off with the Reynor/Serral, Stats/Serral Artosis/Serral are the best matchup coping bullshit, this is what everyone wanted, this is what doubled their views overnight.) We got Maru vs Serral, we liked it, we were dying to watch it, but lets not pretend it was not rigged.
You do realize that eventually it was about to happen no matter what, don't you? Even if they rigged it, if Trap is so good, he should have advanced.
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On October 11 2020 11:13 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2020 10:33 Xain0n wrote:
Random draws, you know, are random? It may very well happen that uneven groups are drawn.
Trap had his chance to get out of the group, he was unlucky but he had his opportunities to beat Maru. Random draws where we don't have a single bit of information on how they're done get the most hyped matchup in the history of SC2 as a opening match! So lucky! (Fuck off with the Reynor/Serral, Stats/Serral Artosis/Serral are the best matchup coping bullshit, this is what everyone wanted, this is what doubled their views overnight.) We got Maru vs Serral, we liked it, we were dying to watch it, but lets not pretend it was not rigged.
don't tell me what to do!
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On October 11 2020 11:13 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2020 10:33 Xain0n wrote:
Random draws, you know, are random? It may very well happen that uneven groups are drawn.
Trap had his chance to get out of the group, he was unlucky but he had his opportunities to beat Maru. Random draws where we don't have a single bit of information on how they're done get the most hyped matchup in the history of SC2 as a opening match! So lucky! (Fuck off with the Reynor/Serral, Stats/Serral Artosis/Serral are the best matchup coping bullshit, this is what everyone wanted, this is what doubled their views overnight.) We got Maru vs Serral, we liked it, we were dying to watch it, but lets not pretend it was not rigged.
This must be one of the stupidest things I've read here.
Just judging by statistics it's not at all unlikely that they eventually end up in a group.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
What I don't get is their scheduling conflict with their other tournament so some players played at 4 AM or later... like, it's OKish if they're both Koreans, but if anyone was screwed it was Zoun(although I'm not gonna say he would have won with a better time slot as it didn't look so  )
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
Maru v Serral (outside where seeding exists) never happening in a group or scheduled for the Ro8 or Ro4 for so long was the weird anomaly, not this occurring.
A tough day in the office for Trap but it’s a pretty stacked tournament. Of the 4 groups and on current form his group along with the group with Inno/Cure/Reynor you have a bunch of S class players and a player or two of the tier just below that.
There’s not a huge amount of shuffling I would do if I was hypothetically fixing brackets to keep some of the top dogs in, not a huge amount of manoeuvre.
They’re better distributed groups than the Ro16 in Code S was, although of course that’s decided very openly and transparently.
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We should give credit to Cure for coming up with a relatively new style that works against LBM. His style of constant Widow Mine drops (with Drilling Claws) really pinned the Mutas back in their own bases, when normally it is the Mutas which pin the Terran back in their own bases. I'm very interested to see how the Zergs will respond to this. It's been too long since we have seen any new meta develop out of this (TvZ in the LBM matchup), so it's been very refreshing to see this.
Another element that I've noticed more and more as well is the use of more marauders in the Terran's composition and moving them to the front to tank banes now that they have been nerfed. Marauders were in the army comp before, but since the nerf, I think Terrans have found that it's much more cost effective to just tank the banes with the marauders with the marines sniping them from the back. Let's see how the Zergs will respond to that style as well. Changing metas are always very interesting to me.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On October 11 2020 19:42 buzz_bender wrote:
We should give credit to Cure for coming up with a relatively new style that works against LBM. His style of constant Widow Mine drops (with Drilling Claws) really pinned the Mutas back in their own bases, when normally it is the Mutas which pin the Terran back in their own bases. I'm very interested to see how the Zergs will respond to this. It's been too long since we have seen any new meta develop out of this (TvZ in the LBM matchup), so it's been very refreshing to see this.
Another element that I've noticed more and more as well is the use of more marauders in the Terran's composition and moving them to the front to tank banes now that they have been nerfed. Marauders were in the army comp before, but since the nerf, I think Terrans have found that it's much more cost effective to just tank the banes with the marauders with the marines sniping them from the back. Let's see how the Zergs will respond to that style as well. Changing metas are always very interesting to me.
Yeah it’s definitely intriguing, I’m not as hardcore a Cure watcher as others but I don’t recall seeing him playing this style against Korean Zergs.
So I don’t know, it could be a new style Cure thinks is strong and he’s only recently polished, or tailored for Reynor’s style, or indeed something tailored for cross-server conditions.
Definitely intrigued to stay if this sticks around as a reliable consistent style or is merely a flavour of the week kind of thing.
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Hmmm Cure/Inno/TY just went 15-4 vs Rogue/Dark/Reynor/Serral over the last couple days. Strong shift in the meta?
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On October 11 2020 22:46 Archerylady wrote:
Hmmm Cure/Inno/TY just went 15-4 vs Rogue/Dark/Reynor/Serral over the last couple days. Strong shift in the meta?
Doubt it, just a few results over a few days. Plus those Terrans are all pretty stylistically different (and Maru and to a degree Clem are different again), I’m not seeing a huge amount of commonality in their play that we could really group together into a meta shift.
The year could be 2045 and Inno’s TvZ gameplan is still probably 3CC into 2/2 timing attacks. Cure’s playing TvZ like Maru used to play TvP with a huge mine-per-minute count. TY seems to like cooking stuff up via prep and Maru’s got his lategame ghost/lib style down to a level beyond everyone else.
That said, good to see Terrans doing well, I’m just not sure what to make of it in terms of wider trends.
Eye test wise I don’t think Serral and Reynor are playing as well as they have been and Dark certainly isn’t looking at the same level that gave him Blizzcon and a Code S
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Noticeably high lag in this game. Players are not playing under good conditions atm.
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EPT
