Thank you everyone for tuning in and following the King of Battles! Here is the bracket for the playoffs! Stream starts at 10pm KST (3pm CEST, 9am EDT) each day with some preview content - matches start at 11pm KST to accommodate GTC playoffs!
Quarterfinals are on Saturday. Semifinals and Grand Finals on Sunday!
With $30,000 and 1280 EPT points on the line it's an opportunity for players to earn fame, fortune and important points towards the IEM Katowice 2021 World Championship! EPT points will be distributed as follows:
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Replay pack for entire tournament (Main event and casted qualifier matches) available at $10. *new Purchase here as original matcherino page has been finalized - https://matcherino.com/tournaments/39063/overview
Want to support Alpha X if you are a fan of our events focused style of developing SC2 talent? We frequently organize events of all kinds to support our young talents like Astrea, Zoun, Future & RagnaroK etc and showcase premier players like Rogue, INnoVation, TY etc. Support and more information via Patreon @ https://www.patreon.com/alphaxsc2
Regardless of any argument stated trying to underrate Rogue's great resume and overpraising Serral's consistencies much, Rogue may face Serral in Bo7 series for the first time (though it is not offline) if Serral can survive against Cure who just defeated Reynor yesterday.
Looking at TY vs Rogue's competitive match history, it could be 3-2 on either side.
Interesting bracket. Don't have much hope for Rogue with what he's shown so far especially in a ZvT, but his record against TY in LOTV is quite good so maybe he can do it. Serrals ZvT seems worse than Reynors recently so Cure defo has a shot. Let's see
Cure did dish out some wonky early aggression stuff. A bit afraid for Serral here who otherwise should win this convincingly. Serral 3:1 Cure
Rogue vs TY could be another nailbiter. I would give TY a ever so slight edge cause it is Ro8ue after all. TY 3:2 Rogue
Zoun vs Clem are IMO the both the weakest Ro8 players so it's a good matchup for them both. Zouns PvT hasn't delivered yet so imma give this one to Clem Clem 3:1 Zoun
Boy oh boy. Maru and Inno. Top of my head, Inno is Marus TvT nemesis INnoVation 3:2 Maru
Wow, Clem has a tough bracket. I don’t think he can beat the Koreans in TvT even with ping... Maru has a tough one as well starting with one of the best TvTers in his worst matchup... Then it’s free until the finals where he is supposed to meet Serral (rigged bracket? :D) TY has an impossible bracket unless Cure beats Serral as well, which should not happen after playing 7 games against Reynor... and Rogue is able to beat him as well.
Good thing for the terrans and Zoun in lower bracket, is that they won’t have to show their vZ before the finals, so even if Cure fails to beat Serral, there is hope for a non Serral victory here, in spite of ping advantage.
On October 09 2020 16:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: Interesting bracket. Don't have much hope for Rogue with what he's shown so far especially in a ZvT, but his record against TY in LOTV is quite good so maybe he can do it. Serrals ZvT seems worse than Reynors recently so Cure defo has a shot. Let's see
Serral won vs Maru and Reynor lost to Cure... In my book Maru >>>>>>>> Cure
On October 09 2020 16:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: Interesting bracket. Don't have much hope for Rogue with what he's shown so far especially in a ZvT, but his record against TY in LOTV is quite good so maybe he can do it. Serrals ZvT seems worse than Reynors recently so Cure defo has a shot. Let's see
Serral won vs Maru and Reynor lost to Cure... In my book Maru >>>>>>>> Cure
Completely different approaches tho. Maru was literally just sitting in his bases all game trying to burn through Serral's resources. Cure was bringing the heat to Reynor (who said he didn't know what to do against it).
On October 09 2020 16:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: Interesting bracket. Don't have much hope for Rogue with what he's shown so far especially in a ZvT, but his record against TY in LOTV is quite good so maybe he can do it. Serrals ZvT seems worse than Reynors recently so Cure defo has a shot. Let's see
Serral won vs Maru and Reynor lost to Cure... In my book Maru >>>>>>>> Cure
Yeah but there is also the fact that Cure is probably more accustomed to playing with shit ping than Maru is. However he showed a lot of cards vs Reynor so knowing Serral ability to analyze, he’ll have a lot of troubles...
On October 09 2020 16:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: Interesting bracket. Don't have much hope for Rogue with what he's shown so far especially in a ZvT, but his record against TY in LOTV is quite good so maybe he can do it. Serrals ZvT seems worse than Reynors recently so Cure defo has a shot. Let's see
Serral won vs Maru and Reynor lost to Cure... In my book Maru >>>>>>>> Cure
Overall for sure and usually in TvZ as well, but honestly I havent seen Maru play such a good TvZ which Cure showed yesterday in a long time. He held his own on 1 map vs Serral but even that was super close. Cure just straight up murdered Reynor.
On October 09 2020 16:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: Interesting bracket. Don't have much hope for Rogue with what he's shown so far especially in a ZvT, but his record against TY in LOTV is quite good so maybe he can do it. Serrals ZvT seems worse than Reynors recently so Cure defo has a shot. Let's see
Serral won vs Maru and Reynor lost to Cure... In my book Maru >>>>>>>> Cure
Overall for sure and usually in TvZ as well, but honestly I havent seen Maru play such a good TvZ which Cure showed yesterday in a long time. He held his own on 1 map vs Serral but even that was super close. Cure just straight up murdered Reynor.
But can Cure build as many Turrets as Maru?! C'mon, we need focus on the important thigns, TPM!
On October 09 2020 16:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: Interesting bracket. Don't have much hope for Rogue with what he's shown so far especially in a ZvT, but his record against TY in LOTV is quite good so maybe he can do it. Serrals ZvT seems worse than Reynors recently so Cure defo has a shot. Let's see
Serral won vs Maru and Reynor lost to Cure... In my book Maru >>>>>>>> Cure
Completely different approaches tho. Maru was literally just sitting in his bases all game trying to burn through Serral's resources. Cure was bringing the heat to Reynor (who said he didn't know what to do against it).
True. Serral is losing a lot to BS builds from Terran like Cure showed. Essentially is the longer the game goes, the more likely Serral wins
On October 09 2020 18:27 parksonsc wrote: This is not offline so Rogue's bo7 feat can't be broken. Even if he loses, it would mean nothing since he also lost a tons of online bo7s as well.
Dont know about tons but yeah he lost some, especially against Inno
On October 09 2020 18:49 deacon.frost wrote: IF Inno wins his GSL group we may actually see build savings? Considering then he plays Maru in the Code S playoffs. Hmm...
Almost forgot that is happening tomorrow, too. It's not in the upcoming events list though
On October 09 2020 16:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: Interesting bracket. Don't have much hope for Rogue with what he's shown so far especially in a ZvT, but his record against TY in LOTV is quite good so maybe he can do it. Serrals ZvT seems worse than Reynors recently so Cure defo has a shot. Let's see
Serral won vs Maru and Reynor lost to Cure... In my book Maru >>>>>>>> Cure
Maru had his GSL group, and he admitted he didn't even practice for Stats in that group, so he definitely didn't practice for Serral in this tournament or any zerg
On October 09 2020 16:02 MarianoSC2 wrote: Interesting bracket. Don't have much hope for Rogue with what he's shown so far especially in a ZvT, but his record against TY in LOTV is quite good so maybe he can do it. Serrals ZvT seems worse than Reynors recently so Cure defo has a shot. Let's see
Serral won vs Maru and Reynor lost to Cure... In my book Maru >>>>>>>> Cure
Overall for sure and usually in TvZ as well, but honestly I havent seen Maru play such a good TvZ which Cure showed yesterday in a long time. He held his own on 1 map vs Serral but even that was super close. Cure just straight up murdered Reynor.
Cure did lose to Armani and DRG in GSL (with the loss to DRG not looking particularly close), so it really depends on which Cure shows up.
On October 10 2020 22:03 Elentos wrote: Oh this got moved back an hour because of China team league. Meh
With Rogue and Trap getting up early for Code S too, this is a very long day. And since Rogue looked not good in Code S on top of that, he'll most likely 3-0 TY
On October 10 2020 23:07 tigon_ridge wrote: Cure definitely has a chance. He's about as scary as Inno, and he totally made Reynor go back to the drawing board.
I agree. Cure could win, but I doubt Serral will try a lurker style, which I'm not sure is viable against top level KR Terrans, as Inno sort of showed earlier.
EDIT: Interesting that we're starting on Lightshade. I think this is probably the worst Terran map of the five they're playing, so it would be huge for Cure to get a win here.
The fact that Serral, who is well known for his lategame spellcaster control, has made exactly zero vipers or infestors against a turtle mech player, baffles me.
Cure isn't being particularly efficient, but mech is still way more efficient than Serral's repeated headbashing.
On October 10 2020 23:28 pvsnp wrote: The fact that Serral, who is well known for his lategame spellcaster control, has made exactly zero vipers or infestors against a turtle mech player, baffles me.
Cure isn't being particularly efficient, but mech is still way more efficient than Serral's repeated headbashing.
Because you must pick a very careful timing when to make vipers and infestors.
The fact that players can bank up 5000+ in resources is a clear sign that the economy-supply-engagement dynamic of the game is 'broken'. This doesn't happen in BW at all. A good RTS should have players trading resources back-and-forth without building up such a ridiculous bank.
(No, this is not a balance whine. Just a general observation about SC2.)
On October 10 2020 23:34 RKC wrote: The fact that players can bank up 5000+ in resources is a clear sign that the economy-supply-engagement dynamic of the game is 'broken'. This doesn't happen in BW at all. A good RTS should have players trading resources back-and-forth without building up such a ridiculous bank.
(No, this is not a balance whine. Just a general observation about SC2.)
Yeah, supply maxes too fast in SC2, its annoying how many of these long games come down to ''bank''.
On October 10 2020 23:34 RKC wrote: The fact that players can bank up 5000+ in resources is a clear sign that the economy-supply-engagement dynamic of the game is 'broken'. This doesn't happen in BW at all. A good RTS should have players trading resources back-and-forth without building up such a ridiculous bank.
(No, this is not a balance whine. Just a general observation about SC2.)
Yeah, supply maxes too fast in SC2, its annoying how many of these long games come down to ''bank''.
Indeed. Building a bank should be rewarded, of course. Which means that a player that maintains a 1000-2000 resources lead should be able to kill the opponent within 1-2 minutes. This can't happen in SC2 because some units are just too cost-efficient.
I remember in 2013 when i first learned 3/3 blue flame hellbat one shots lings i wondered who will be mad enough to fight such hellbats with lings. Only took 7 years.
I missed the first 30 minutes of that game but that ending might be one of the best i have ever seen. The game comes down to 1 thor being repaired in a fight lol
On October 10 2020 23:34 RKC wrote: The fact that players can bank up 5000+ in resources is a clear sign that the economy-supply-engagement dynamic of the game is 'broken'. This doesn't happen in BW at all. A good RTS should have players trading resources back-and-forth without building up such a ridiculous bank.
(No, this is not a balance whine. Just a general observation about SC2.)
I mean, banking up 5000+ resources is just unfortunate consequence of the fact that you are now obliged to get at least 4 bases as any race these days.
Those hellions saved the game with the scans on the infestor neurals. Insane job by Serral to realize what the game was going to turn into 20 minutes in and really made it close.
This was a true Elentos ladder game. Go mech, get an advantage, make the dream 20 thor army and almost lose anyway because you're shit at taking fights.
That was one of the most insane last 10 minutes of the game I ever saw. Incredible.... Super well played by both, but Serral especially. It felt like he was on the brink of death most of the game and still held on and almost won. Phew
On October 10 2020 23:34 RKC wrote: The fact that players can bank up 5000+ in resources is a clear sign that the economy-supply-engagement dynamic of the game is 'broken'. This doesn't happen in BW at all. A good RTS should have players trading resources back-and-forth without building up such a ridiculous bank.
(No, this is not a balance whine. Just a general observation about SC2.)
I mean, banking up 5000+ resources is just unfortunate consequence of the fact that you are now obliged to get at least 4 bases as any race these days.
He isn't wrong though... This has always been an issue with SC2 design. Supercharged macro mechanics, free thirds, and broken supply to cost ratios make maxes come far too quickly. Games in which players are maxed 2/3 of the time are boring.
On October 10 2020 23:48 Husyelt wrote: Those hellions saved the game with the scans on the infestor neurals. Insane job by Serral to realize what the game was going to turn into 20 minutes in and really made it close.
Yeah getting the scan on the infestors just before the final big fight was super clutch.
On October 10 2020 23:48 Husyelt wrote: Those hellions saved the game with the scans on the infestor neurals. Insane job by Serral to realize what the game was going to turn into 20 minutes in and really made it close.
Yeah getting the scan on the infestors just before the final big fight was super clutch.
and serral got tunnel vision and did not back out those infestors. They could have been detrimental to that last fight...
On October 10 2020 23:34 RKC wrote: The fact that players can bank up 5000+ in resources is a clear sign that the economy-supply-engagement dynamic of the game is 'broken'. This doesn't happen in BW at all. A good RTS should have players trading resources back-and-forth without building up such a ridiculous bank.
(No, this is not a balance whine. Just a general observation about SC2.)
I mean, banking up 5000+ resources is just unfortunate consequence of the fact that you are now obliged to get at least 4 bases as any race these days.
He isn't wrong though... This has always been an issue with SC2 design. Supercharged macro mechanics, free thirds, and broken supply to cost ratios make maxes come far too quickly. Games in which players are maxed 2/3 of the time are boring.
The main issue is the maxed supply army being so easy to control for top pros, bigger army should be more taxing on execution imo.
On October 10 2020 23:34 RKC wrote: The fact that players can bank up 5000+ in resources is a clear sign that the economy-supply-engagement dynamic of the game is 'broken'. This doesn't happen in BW at all. A good RTS should have players trading resources back-and-forth without building up such a ridiculous bank.
(No, this is not a balance whine. Just a general observation about SC2.)
I mean, banking up 5000+ resources is just unfortunate consequence of the fact that you are now obliged to get at least 4 bases as any race these days.
He isn't wrong though... This has always been an issue with SC2 design. Supercharged macro mechanics, free thirds, and broken supply to cost ratios make maxes come far too quickly. Games in which players are maxed 2/3 of the time are boring.
The main issue is the maxed supply army being so easy to control for top pros, bigger army should be more taxing on execution imo.
When there are many spellcasters it's not that easy.
On October 10 2020 23:34 RKC wrote: The fact that players can bank up 5000+ in resources is a clear sign that the economy-supply-engagement dynamic of the game is 'broken'. This doesn't happen in BW at all. A good RTS should have players trading resources back-and-forth without building up such a ridiculous bank.
(No, this is not a balance whine. Just a general observation about SC2.)
I mean, banking up 5000+ resources is just unfortunate consequence of the fact that you are now obliged to get at least 4 bases as any race these days.
He isn't wrong though... This has always been an issue with SC2 design. Supercharged macro mechanics, free thirds, and broken supply to cost ratios make maxes come far too quickly. Games in which players are maxed 2/3 of the time are boring.
The main issue is the maxed supply army being so easy to control for top pros, bigger army should be more taxing on execution imo.
Which pro has ever said that a lategame maxed army is easy to control?
On October 10 2020 23:34 RKC wrote: The fact that players can bank up 5000+ in resources is a clear sign that the economy-supply-engagement dynamic of the game is 'broken'. This doesn't happen in BW at all. A good RTS should have players trading resources back-and-forth without building up such a ridiculous bank.
(No, this is not a balance whine. Just a general observation about SC2.)
I mean, banking up 5000+ resources is just unfortunate consequence of the fact that you are now obliged to get at least 4 bases as any race these days.
He isn't wrong though... This has always been an issue with SC2 design. Supercharged macro mechanics, free thirds, and broken supply to cost ratios make maxes come far too quickly. Games in which players are maxed 2/3 of the time are boring.
The main issue is the maxed supply army being so easy to control for top pros, bigger army should be more taxing on execution imo.
Which pro has ever said that a lategame maxed army is easy to control?
All of them, as long as its the other race's army.
On October 10 2020 23:34 RKC wrote: The fact that players can bank up 5000+ in resources is a clear sign that the economy-supply-engagement dynamic of the game is 'broken'. This doesn't happen in BW at all. A good RTS should have players trading resources back-and-forth without building up such a ridiculous bank.
(No, this is not a balance whine. Just a general observation about SC2.)
I mean, banking up 5000+ resources is just unfortunate consequence of the fact that you are now obliged to get at least 4 bases as any race these days.
He isn't wrong though... This has always been an issue with SC2 design. Supercharged macro mechanics, free thirds, and broken supply to cost ratios make maxes come far too quickly. Games in which players are maxed 2/3 of the time are boring.
The main issue is the maxed supply army being so easy to control for top pros, bigger army should be more taxing on execution imo.
Which pro has ever said that a lategame maxed army is easy to control?
All of them, as long as its the other race's army.
Yeah, fucking f2-amovers! Especially them terrans!
It's funny to watch Serral and Reynor lose to Cure after he got bopped by DRG literally a week ago. That plus Ragnarok going 4-4 against Clem should hopefully calm down the Serral/Reynor vs Clem is the best TvZ ever BS.
On October 11 2020 00:16 JJH777 wrote: It's funny to watch Serral and Reynor lose to Cure after he got bopped by DRG literally a week ago. That plus Ragnarok going 4-4 against Clem should hopefully calm down the Serral/Reynor vs Clem is the best TvZ ever BS.
Why would this happen considering there are like 10 results for and 2 against? Also, I want to remind you Serral is up 5-0 against Cure in series.
If Cure wins this time I'm glad but don't get ahead of yourselves.
With high ping, online Cure is unstoppable.
Ah, great predictions for today's Code S group, well done!
I'm really curious what would Maru and Inno do now. Just stay awake and practice? Take a nap and set an alarm or get some trusty sidekick to ring them when their match is almost up?
On October 11 2020 00:19 RKC wrote: I'm really curious what would Maru and Inno do now. Just stay awake and practice? Take nap and set an alarm or get some trusty sidekick to ring them when their match is almost up?
It's been 12 hours, not counting for prep/meal/travel time. Surely they napped.
On October 11 2020 00:19 RKC wrote: I'm really curious what would Maru and Inno do now. Just stay awake and practice? Take a nap and set an alarm or get some trusty sidekick to ring them when their match is almost up?
Well what Maru was doing just now was watch his team get eliminated from GTC.
On October 11 2020 00:19 RKC wrote: I'm really curious what would Maru and Inno do now. Just stay awake and practice? Take a nap and set an alarm or get some trusty sidekick to ring them when their match is almost up?
Well what Maru was doing just now was watch his team get eliminated from GTC.
Wait was JAGW actually eliminated by AlphaX? That's hilarious.
On October 11 2020 00:19 RKC wrote: I'm really curious what would Maru and Inno do now. Just stay awake and practice? Take a nap and set an alarm or get some trusty sidekick to ring them when their match is almost up?
Well what Maru was doing just now was watch his team get eliminated from GTC.
Wait was JAGW actually eliminated by AlphaX? That's hilarious.
On October 11 2020 00:19 RKC wrote: I'm really curious what would Maru and Inno do now. Just stay awake and practice? Take a nap and set an alarm or get some trusty sidekick to ring them when their match is almost up?
Well what Maru was doing just now was watch his team get eliminated from GTC.
Wait was JAGW actually eliminated by AlphaX? That's hilarious.
Yeah Trap lost the super ace to Ragnarok.
Lmao
Also I'm not quite sure how Cure managed to let his entire mineral line get blown up while his whole army was there.
On October 11 2020 00:19 RKC wrote: I'm really curious what would Maru and Inno do now. Just stay awake and practice? Take a nap and set an alarm or get some trusty sidekick to ring them when their match is almost up?
Well what Maru was doing just now was watch his team get eliminated from GTC.
Wait was JAGW actually eliminated by AlphaX? That's hilarious.
Except for Ragnarok dropping one map to Rex, they performed incredibly well!
On October 11 2020 00:19 RKC wrote: I'm really curious what would Maru and Inno do now. Just stay awake and practice? Take a nap and set an alarm or get some trusty sidekick to ring them when their match is almost up?
Well what Maru was doing just now was watch his team get eliminated from GTC.
Wait was JAGW actually eliminated by AlphaX? That's hilarious.
This has to be one of the most disappointing series Serral has played all year. Insisting on using the least efficient unit composition possible and taking poor trades until he's dead. Cure is playing well but he's not doing anything particularly special.
On October 11 2020 00:16 JJH777 wrote: It's funny to watch Serral and Reynor lose to Cure after he got bopped by DRG literally a week ago. That plus Ragnarok going 4-4 against Clem should hopefully calm down the Serral/Reynor vs Clem is the best TvZ ever BS.
Why would this happen considering there are like 10 results for and 2 against? Also, I want to remind you Serral is up 5-0 against Cure in series.
If Cure wins this time I'm glad but don't get ahead of yourselves.
With high ping, online Cure is unstoppable.
Ah, great predictions for today's Code S group, well done!
What 10 results are those? Reynor lost to Heromarine and Inno as recently as TSL which wasn't that long ago. The idea that him vs Clem is suddenly the highest level TvZ in the world was always stupid as hell.
And meh about today's GSL group I guess Rogue and Dark don't want Zerg to get nerfed again. I feel like if any even masters level player resumes from replay in Dark vs Trap game 1 after Dark killed the carrier/ht army they win. I did not understand his decisions after that fight. I'll never understand how Rogue can do so badly vs Inno over and over.
On October 11 2020 00:19 RKC wrote: I'm really curious what would Maru and Inno do now. Just stay awake and practice? Take a nap and set an alarm or get some trusty sidekick to ring them when their match is almost up?
Well what Maru was doing just now was watch his team get eliminated from GTC.
Incredible planning from AlphaX to arrange a whole tournament just to make sure the JAGW stars are busy for the GTC playoffs when their team has to play them.
On October 11 2020 00:32 SamirDuran wrote: I wonder how DRG defeated this style of Cure... Maybe EU zergs needs to watch KR zergs again for a guide..
DRG did not do anything fancy. He just got above 90 drones and steamrolled on raw economy advantage.
That said i don't remember Cure being this committed on mine drops in that series.
He was. At least in the rematch on Deauthaura. He got a widow mine that killed like 30 lings, than sat on his 50 supply advantage doing nothing until DRG caught up.
On October 11 2020 00:32 SamirDuran wrote: I wonder how DRG defeated this style of Cure... Maybe EU zergs needs to watch KR zergs again for a guide..
DRG did not do anything fancy. He just got above 90 drones and steamrolled on raw economy advantage.
That said i don't remember Cure being this committed on mine drops in that series.
Offline series though.
True, that's a big factor. Both on ping and the fact that it's Cure.
That said, this series gave me a convincing argument that online TvZ is actually easier for T. Because you can pre-split against banes and just poke with a squad of units, but you can't pre-split against mines as long as those mines have any units above them.
On October 11 2020 00:16 JJH777 wrote: It's funny to watch Serral and Reynor lose to Cure after he got bopped by DRG literally a week ago. That plus Ragnarok going 4-4 against Clem should hopefully calm down the Serral/Reynor vs Clem is the best TvZ ever BS.
Why would this happen considering there are like 10 results for and 2 against? Also, I want to remind you Serral is up 5-0 against Cure in series.
If Cure wins this time I'm glad but don't get ahead of yourselves.
With high ping, online Cure is unstoppable.
Ah, great predictions for today's Code S group, well done!
What 10 results are those? Reynor lost to Heromarine and Inno as recently as TSL which wasn't that long ago. The idea that him vs Clem is suddenly the highest level TvZ in the world was always stupid as hell.
And meh about today's GSL group I guess Rogue and Dark don't want Zerg to get nerfed again. I feel like if any even masters level player resumes from replay in Dark vs Trap game 1 after Dark killed the carrier/ht army they win. I did not understand his decisions after that fight. I'll never understand how Rogue can do so badly vs Inno over and over.
Man, your perception of time really is off. A couple of months can change everything in Sc2! Reynor beat Maru, TY and Inno from July to September(as well as Clem), he looked unstoppable in the matchup. At the same time Serral defeated Inno twice, Cure, Maru and TY. They both lost series to Clem in the meanwhile. It was not a ridicolous claim!
On October 11 2020 00:40 swarminfestor wrote: If Clem lost, this might be the first time since 2017 that no foreigner survives to the semifinals of foreign tournaments onward.
This is not a foreign tournament, it's a cross server one.
price pool is so small. serral doesnt give a care. cure only can beat the two best eu players, but he cannot beat koreans , just like reynor who can beat serral but cant win koreans
On October 11 2020 00:44 hightemplay wrote: price pool is so small. serral doesnt give a care. cure only can beat the two best eu players, but he cannot beat koreans , just like reynor who can beat serral but cant win koreans
Cure is the master of upsetting players better than him only to get crushed in the next stage of a tournament.
On October 11 2020 00:30 pvsnp wrote: Cure 3-0 Serral?
Someone put Xainon on suicide watch.
well Xainon is a fan of online cure sooo.....
Oh, I am happy for Cure. He deserves to win something but I am afraid he would have a very hard time beating TY or Inno. Cure played better than Serral this time; it wasn't from the time Serral lost 0-4 to Bunny that he had a worse beating(the 0-3 against Neeb has been already mentioned).
On October 11 2020 00:44 hightemplay wrote: price pool is so small. serral doesnt give a care. cure only can beat the two best eu players, but he cannot beat koreans , just like reynor who can beat serral but cant win koreans
I think the delineation in Cure's play isn't KR vs. non-KR, but online vs. offline. Cure has won a ton of online cups by beating top-level KR players. He just hasn't translated that form into offline play, although his offline play isn't terrible either. He does have a 2nd and two other semifinal appearances in GSL.
On October 11 2020 00:30 pvsnp wrote: Cure 3-0 Serral?
Someone put Xainon on suicide watch.
well Xainon is a fan of online cure sooo.....
Oh, I am happy for Cure. He deserves to win something but I am afraid he would have a very hard time beating TY or Inno. Cure played better than Serral this time; it wasn't from the time Serral lost 0-4 to Bunny that he had a worse beating(the 0-3 against Neeb has been already mentioned).
The infamous nuke humiliation doesn't count i guess?
On October 11 2020 00:30 pvsnp wrote: Cure 3-0 Serral?
Someone put Xainon on suicide watch.
well Xainon is a fan of online cure sooo.....
Oh, I am happy for Cure. He deserves to win something but I am afraid he would have a very hard time beating TY or Inno. Cure played better than Serral this time; it wasn't from the time Serral lost 0-4 to Bunny that he had a worse beating(the 0-3 against Neeb has been already mentioned).
The infamous nuke humiliation doesn't count i guess?
It's possible Rogue is just having a bad day on the worst of all possible days. I don't like their suggesting that Rogue is lacking commitment or dedication. That's a pretty sharp insinuation without something upon which to base it.
On October 11 2020 00:54 sneakyfox wrote: Must also be awkward for Rogue to have practiced on the season 2 map pool for GSL and then play season 3 maps here.
Not as awkward as fucking up the wall on a season 2 map
On October 11 2020 00:54 irvnasty wrote: It's possible Rogue is just having a bad day on the worst of all possible days. I don't like their suggesting that Rogue is lacking commitment or dedication. That's a pretty sharp insinuation without something upon which to base it.
Ordinarily it is pretty disrespectful but it might be a fair call. Rogue and INnoVation are players whose skill varies a lot depending on their levels of motivation..
On October 11 2020 00:54 sneakyfox wrote: Must also be awkward for Rogue to have practiced on the season 2 map pool for GSL and then play season 3 maps here.
Not as awkward as fucking up the wall on a season 2 map
i got banned from the chat for posting some bait and only saying that koreans zergs were better than eu zerg without being disrespectful or anything, alphaxsc2 chat is a complete dictatorship lol
On October 11 2020 00:54 sneakyfox wrote: Must also be awkward for Rogue to have practiced on the season 2 map pool for GSL and then play season 3 maps here.
Not as awkward as fucking up the wall on a season 2 map
He didn't fuck up, he was late
He could have walled the ramp with queens at least, didn't manage that either.
This was just as terrible from TY as game 1 was from Rogue.
On October 11 2020 00:54 sneakyfox wrote: Must also be awkward for Rogue to have practiced on the season 2 map pool for GSL and then play season 3 maps here.
Not as awkward as fucking up the wall on a season 2 map
He didn't fuck up, he was late
He could have walled the ramp with queens at least, didn't manage that either.
This was just as terrible from TY as game 1 was from Rogue.
The queens were in the wrong position already, it was a late wall and greedy rogue and it failed horribly
One thing I don't understand is why Zergs refuse to throw done a Roach Warren. It's just one drone and 150 minerals. Makes the defense against this so much easier.
On October 11 2020 00:30 pvsnp wrote: Cure 3-0 Serral?
Someone put Xainon on suicide watch.
well Xainon is a fan of online cure sooo.....
Oh, I am happy for Cure. He deserves to win something but I am afraid he would have a very hard time beating TY or Inno. Cure played better than Serral this time; it wasn't from the time Serral lost 0-4 to Bunny that he had a worse beating(the 0-3 against Neeb has been already mentioned).
The infamous nuke humiliation doesn't count i guess?
You mean WESG against Maru? That was a 3-0 too.
This one wasn't really a beating, despite the scoreline. Every game was close and could have swinged into Serral's favor with one or 2 better trades, and Serral came out of game 1 looking better than Cure.
On October 11 2020 00:30 pvsnp wrote: Cure 3-0 Serral?
Someone put Xainon on suicide watch.
well Xainon is a fan of online cure sooo.....
Oh, I am happy for Cure. He deserves to win something but I am afraid he would have a very hard time beating TY or Inno. Cure played better than Serral this time; it wasn't from the time Serral lost 0-4 to Bunny that he had a worse beating(the 0-3 against Neeb has been already mentioned).
The infamous nuke humiliation doesn't count i guess?
You mean WESG against Maru? That was a 3-0 too.
This one wasn't really a beating, despite the scoreline. Every game could have swinged into Serral's favor with one or 2 better trades, and Serral came out of game 1 looking better than Cure.
Not counting Jagannatha, which was vetoed, Lightshade was the worst Terran map they were going to play. Cure dragging it into an even and then winning game with turtle mech didn't suggest he was in weaker form than Serral IMO.
On October 11 2020 00:30 pvsnp wrote: Cure 3-0 Serral?
Someone put Xainon on suicide watch.
well Xainon is a fan of online cure sooo.....
Oh, I am happy for Cure. He deserves to win something but I am afraid he would have a very hard time beating TY or Inno. Cure played better than Serral this time; it wasn't from the time Serral lost 0-4 to Bunny that he had a worse beating(the 0-3 against Neeb has been already mentioned).
The infamous nuke humiliation doesn't count i guess?
You mean WESG against Maru? That was a 3-0 too.
This one wasn't really a beating, despite the scoreline. Every game could have swinged into Serral's favor with one or 2 better trades, and Serral came out of game 1 looking better than Cure.
Not counting Jagannatha, which was vetoed, Lightshade was the worst Terran map they were going to play. Cure dragging it into an even and then winning game with turtle mech didn't suggest he was in weaker form than Serral IMO.
He managed to fully split the map with mech and almost lost it with a terribly executed thor push.
On October 11 2020 00:30 pvsnp wrote: Cure 3-0 Serral?
Someone put Xainon on suicide watch.
well Xainon is a fan of online cure sooo.....
Oh, I am happy for Cure. He deserves to win something but I am afraid he would have a very hard time beating TY or Inno. Cure played better than Serral this time; it wasn't from the time Serral lost 0-4 to Bunny that he had a worse beating(the 0-3 against Neeb has been already mentioned).
The infamous nuke humiliation doesn't count i guess?
You mean WESG against Maru? That was a 3-0 too.
This one wasn't really a beating, despite the scoreline. Every game could have swinged into Serral's favor with one or 2 better trades, and Serral came out of game 1 looking better than Cure.
Not counting Jagannatha, which was vetoed, Lightshade was the worst Terran map they were going to play. Cure dragging it into an even and then winning game with turtle mech didn't suggest he was in weaker form than Serral IMO.
He managed to fully split the map with mech and almost lost it with a terribly executed thor push.
On October 11 2020 00:30 pvsnp wrote: Cure 3-0 Serral?
Someone put Xainon on suicide watch.
well Xainon is a fan of online cure sooo.....
Oh, I am happy for Cure. He deserves to win something but I am afraid he would have a very hard time beating TY or Inno. Cure played better than Serral this time; it wasn't from the time Serral lost 0-4 to Bunny that he had a worse beating(the 0-3 against Neeb has been already mentioned).
The infamous nuke humiliation doesn't count i guess?
You mean WESG against Maru? That was a 3-0 too.
This one wasn't really a beating, despite the scoreline. Every game could have swinged into Serral's favor with one or 2 better trades, and Serral came out of game 1 looking better than Cure.
Not counting Jagannatha, which was vetoed, Lightshade was the worst Terran map they were going to play. Cure dragging it into an even and then winning game with turtle mech didn't suggest he was in weaker form than Serral IMO.
He managed to fully split the map with mech and almost lost it with a terribly executed thor push.
On October 11 2020 00:44 hightemplay wrote: price pool is so small. serral doesnt give a care. cure only can beat the two best eu players, but he cannot beat koreans , just like reynor who can beat serral but cant win koreans
I thought this excuse was for koreans only. I hope this turns into the new jetlag meme.
Rough day for zergs for once :o Hopefully Maru beats INno, he has a shot vs everybody else except maybe TY. Clem can beat Zoun but with ping it’ll be hard. Zoun had good PvT with small mistakes so we’ll see if Clem can capitalize on it as well as the KR terrans
On October 11 2020 00:30 pvsnp wrote: Cure 3-0 Serral?
Someone put Xainon on suicide watch.
well Xainon is a fan of online cure sooo.....
Oh, I am happy for Cure. He deserves to win something but I am afraid he would have a very hard time beating TY or Inno. Cure played better than Serral this time; it wasn't from the time Serral lost 0-4 to Bunny that he had a worse beating(the 0-3 against Neeb has been already mentioned).
"Online Cure" could wreck "Online TY with 1 day of preparation'
On October 11 2020 01:31 NewModel wrote: Is Zouns PvT so bad that nobody can him imagine winning?
No. I think Zoun has pretty good winning chances. He has a lot of dangerous all-ins, and I don't think Clem's TvP is so incredible that he can't be beaten.
Seems like Terrans are doing well this tournament. But this has nothing to do with balance - it's pretty clear that terran players are just the superior humans. They are anomalies you can't use their games to argue balance. Is it that weird to think that all the best players happened to pick terran?
On October 11 2020 01:38 Charoisaur wrote: Seems like Terrans are doing well this tournament. But this has nothing to do with balance - it's pretty clear that terran players are just the superior humans. They are anomalies you can't use their games to argue balance. Is it that weird to think that all the best players happened to pick terran?
IT would be interesting to see how Code S unveils, so far the Koreans are dominating And Rogue is having one of the worst days of his gaming life.
Edit> lulz, that 2000 240p camera of Zoun While Clem is having such a clean 8k picture
On October 11 2020 01:46 ZAWGURN wrote: All I want is Zoun to win so we can have one protoss. His PvT is looking promising, he was able to take a map off Maru in GTC this morning.
On October 11 2020 02:35 parksonsc wrote: I dont know how ppl praise TY's TvT so much, as far as i remember Inno has been the best TvT for the last 2 years.
Inno lost all his TvT cred after his semis series vs Cure.
Is Inno > Maru in TvT really as much of a consensus opinion as a lot are saying? I do remember Inno semi-bopping Maru in GSL S1, but I would have thought this was a pretty even battle on odds.
On October 11 2020 02:50 irvnasty wrote: Is Inno > Maru in TvT really as much of a consensus opinion as a lot are saying? I do remember Inno semi-bopping Maru in GSL S1, but I would have thought this was a pretty even battle on odds.
it's pretty even, inno lost 2-3 to maru in supertourament also
On October 11 2020 02:52 stilt wrote: It's nice to see a frenchie having the best foreigner results in a tourney, I miss the old times with Ilyes... (I rather forget Lilbow...)
Lilbow cannot be forgotten and has to be reminded to the younger generations as a warning!
On October 11 2020 02:34 [Phantom] wrote: I don't think anyone expected four terrans.
When was the last time this happened?
2011 October GSL, during GOMTvT
Edit: Actually all terrans semi has only happen 4 times in the history of SC2, 3 of them in 2011.
Surprisingly, an all-Zerg top 4 has only happned 1 time in the history of SC2, during HomeStory Cup 6 in 2012. And it's happened once for a protoss-only top 4 during the Asia Finals of the 2012 World Championship Series. Note that this is Premier tournaments only according to Liquipedia. So what I'm trying to say here is, Terran imba
On October 11 2020 02:51 Elentos wrote: Asking once more, can we get a 3-2?
Jinxing it again? Duuuuuuuuuuuuude, stop!
The real jinx took place in my Liquibets. I consider myself directly responsible for the eliminations of Reynor, Rogue and Serral from this tournament as well as Rogue in GSL. All the Terrans I bet on survived.
On October 11 2020 02:50 irvnasty wrote: Is Inno > Maru in TvT really as much of a consensus opinion as a lot are saying? I do remember Inno semi-bopping Maru in GSL S1, but I would have thought this was a pretty even battle on odds.
Historically Inno had the upper hand but this year Maru has beaten him more often than not! 12-9 for Inno in series overall, 3-1 for Maru in 2020.
On October 11 2020 02:51 Elentos wrote: Asking once more, can we get a 3-2?
Jinxing it again? Duuuuuuuuuuuuude, stop!
The real jinx took place in my Liquibets. I consider myself directly responsible for the eliminations of Reynor, Rogue and Serral from this tournament as well as Rogue in GSL. All the Terrans I bet on survived.
I thought betting on someone meant that they got jinxed. Do you have some kind of anti-anti-jinx power?
On October 11 2020 02:51 Elentos wrote: Asking once more, can we get a 3-2?
Jinxing it again? Duuuuuuuuuuuuude, stop!
The real jinx took place in my Liquibets. I consider myself directly responsible for the eliminations of Reynor, Rogue and Serral from this tournament as well as Rogue in GSL. All the Terrans I bet on survived.
I thought betting on someone meant that they got jinxed. Do you have some kind of anti-anti-jinx power?
I bet on the Zergs and killed the Zergs, I bet on the Terrans and saved the Terrans.
On October 11 2020 02:51 Elentos wrote: Asking once more, can we get a 3-2?
Jinxing it again? Duuuuuuuuuuuuude, stop!
The real jinx took place in my Liquibets. I consider myself directly responsible for the eliminations of Reynor, Rogue and Serral from this tournament as well as Rogue in GSL. All the Terrans I bet on survived.
I thought betting on someone meant that they got jinxed. Do you have some kind of anti-anti-jinx power?
I bet on the Zergs and killed the Zergs, I bet on the Terrans and saved the Terrans.
if you only hear the cast it gives the feeling that INno was on the lead the whole game and then Maru won in the blink of an eye. They kinda ignored Maru advantages the full game
On October 11 2020 03:24 Argonauta wrote: if you only hear the cast it gives the feeling that INno was on the lead the whole game and then Maru won in the blink of an eye. They kinda ignored Maru advantages the full game
Well Inno was in the lead for the vast majority of the game. Not that Maru won out of nowhere, but he was behind for the longest time.
On October 11 2020 03:24 Argonauta wrote: if you only hear the cast it gives the feeling that INno was on the lead the whole game and then Maru won in the blink of an eye. They kinda ignored Maru advantages the full game
Well Inno was in the lead for the vast majority of the game. Not that Maru won out of nowhere, but he was behind for the longest time.
? Early game went INno sure, but from midgame Maru was building up the better long term comp and he didn't got punished and was able to bank a loooot of raven energy and was ahead on upgrades....
On October 11 2020 03:36 sneakyfox wrote: Inno seems desperate to end it. Probably just wants to sleep.
He really plays desperately. He throws thousands of resources into Maru (who is notoriously hard to kill) instead of using his eco advantage and map presence to starve Maru and tech ahead.
I don't quite understand how Innovation seems to consistently let his tanks get Raven'd. Is that just lack of vision because he lost air, so then his marines can't be in the proper place quickly enough?
G2 felt like Maru just taking better engagements G3 felt like Maru not only having better engagements, but a superior army composition (Raven / air control)
Really disappointed with Inno's play in this series. He did some nice moves and got some solid advantages but threw them away by refusing to use ravens until too late and taking really poor engagements
On October 11 2020 03:45 Poopi wrote: Greatest of all time against French prodigy tomorrow, great! I don't know how Maru always manages to come back, super impressive Total domination
I wonder if it was somewhat intentional given his composition (heavy air / massing Ravens) - he would play defensive for a while until he reached a critical mass of Ravens and could start banking energy
On October 11 2020 02:35 parksonsc wrote: I dont know how ppl praise TY's TvT so much, as far as i remember Inno has been the best TvT for the last 2 years.
In HOTS it was always Maru>TY>Inno >Maru. Then TY became an unstoppable TvT monster....
On October 11 2020 03:45 Poopi wrote: Greatest of all time against French prodigy tomorrow, great! I don't know how Maru always manages to come back, super impressive Total domination
I wonder if it was somewhat intentional given his composition (heavy air / massing Ravens) - he would play defensive for a while until he reached a critical mass of Ravens and could start banking energy
I think INno really wanted to sleep as has been pointed out, the guy had a GSL group against GSL champions / Trap ffs . But yeah Maru has shown such defensive TvT recently, against ByuN on this exact same map
On October 11 2020 03:44 Supah wrote: I don't quite understand how Innovation seems to consistently let his tanks get Raven'd. Is that just lack of vision because he lost air, so then his marines can't be in the proper place quickly enough?
It is because Maru's raven play is absolutely amazing. His style is to mostly skip medivacs early to get the air control and then keep it until his army is too strong to handle, even though it might take a while to get there. I don't think anyone has solved his tvt style yet, and he should be the favorite to win this.
I think this may be the 4th time in a row Maru beating Inno and kinda easily as well. Who would have thought? Inno always had Marus number, his style looked like a hardcounter to Maru for years and now the tides have turned massively.
Happy to see Maru in the finals I hope it's against TY. Against Cure it would be too one sided
On October 11 2020 02:35 parksonsc wrote: I dont know how ppl praise TY's TvT so much, as far as i remember Inno has been the best TvT for the last 2 years.
In HOTS it was always Maru>TY>Inno >Maru. Then TY became an unstoppable TvT monster....
In HotS it was Inno > TY >= Maru > Inno. In LotV it's been TY > Inno > Maru >= TY.
On October 11 2020 03:53 Fango wrote: In all three matchups is Maru just playing defensive until every base is taken and he's somehow 20K resources ahead?
It's not really somehow what with people throwing themselves into his defensive positions. Especially Inno did it with reckless abandon. But yeah after the early game his play doesn't really look Maru-esque. Cure played TvZ like one would expect from Maru.
On October 11 2020 03:53 Fango wrote: In all three matchups is Maru just playing defensive until every base is taken and he's somehow 20K resources ahead?
It's not really somehow what with people throwing themselves into his defensive positions. Especially Inno did it with reckless abandon. But yeah after the early game his play doesn't really look Maru-esque. Cure played TvZ like one would expect from Maru.
To be fair, in a lot of these games had it been any other terran they would have lost. Like vs Serral on Pillars of Gold or vs PartinG on Ice and Chrome. No one else is holding on in those games.
But here INno just started throwing armies away without thinking. His TvT does live and die by hitting his macro and pushing with marine-tank, but it's not like Maru has a win condition of hitting the 15 minute mark.
On October 11 2020 03:57 Kashim wrote: TvT zzzzzzz..........
No, no Z, that's the novelty in this top 4. I thought Liquipedia staff would know better
I mean, it‘s fine and well deserved, but I think full mirror Ro4 are generally speaking not the most entertaining stuff for many players. For obvious reasons. How often did that even happen in premier tournaments? I can‘t remember any ZvZvZvZ or PvPvPvP Ro4 and for TvTvTvT it‘s been 9 years.
On October 11 2020 03:57 Kashim wrote: TvT zzzzzzz..........
No, no Z, that's the novelty in this top 4. I thought Liquipedia staff would know better
I mean, it‘s fine and well deserved, but I think full mirror Ro4 are generally speaking not the most entertaining stuff for many players. For obvious reasons. How often did that even happen in premier tournaments? I can‘t remember any ZvZvZvZ or PvPvPvP Ro4 and for TvTvTvT it‘s been 9 years.
We had some ZvZ finals and if Classic didn't derp Rogue out the last blizzcon would have jhappend :D
On October 11 2020 03:57 Kashim wrote: TvT zzzzzzz..........
No, no Z, that's the novelty in this top 4. I thought Liquipedia staff would know better
I mean, it‘s fine and well deserved, but I think full mirror Ro4 are generally speaking not the most entertaining stuff for many players. For obvious reasons. How often did that even happen in premier tournaments? I can‘t remember any ZvZvZvZ or PvPvPvP Ro4 and for TvTvTvT it‘s been 9 years.
We had some ZvZ finals and if Classic didn't derp Rogue out the last blizzcon would have jhappend :D
Yeah, Blizzcon is the closest I found out there. That‘s why I was wondering whether it ever really happened.
Wow @ people crying about all terran semifinals when we've had to deal with endless zerg champions for what seems like forever now. Another reynor serral finals would have been so much more exciting.
On October 11 2020 03:50 MarianoSC2 wrote: I think this may be the 4th time in a row Maru beating Inno and kinda easily as well. Who would have thought? Inno always had Marus number, his style looked like a hardcounter to Maru for years and now the tides have turned massively.
Happy to see Maru in the finals I hope it's against TY. Against Cure it would be too one sided
Maru in a bo7 seems too much for Clem atm, I agree. But you should never take anything for granted, I hope to see exciting micro battles.
Online Cure has been better than Maru in TvT on the other hand, Cure's biggest hurdle is most likely TY himself.
On October 11 2020 03:53 Fango wrote: In all three matchups is Maru just playing defensive until every base is taken and he's somehow 20K resources ahead?
It's not as flashy as the aggressive micro plays he used to be known for, but I doubt he's capable of doing those right now/anymore.
On your latter point I’m not sure why that would be unless it’s maybe the wrist action of hardcore micro action (probably not coincidental that ByuN who does play that way is having issues)
In almost every other way this recent stylistic shift of Maru’s looks more demanding in almost every other way. He has to nail tech transitions, defend well and control really technical armies, sometimes over long games by SC2 standards.
I’m only going off his FPV from his last GSL group and Uthermal’s breakdown of his FPV against Trap in this tournament, but it looks a bloody exhausting way to play mentally anyway. He’s positioning great, engaging great and he managed to catch and reposition for almost all of Inno’s doom drops today, some with almost zero notice.
Perhaps as with previous periods of hyper aggression, or proxies Maru’s made the determination that this is the right way to play in the current meta. Certainly as with countering Collosus without vikings this style seems to only be something Maru can execute to this level.
On October 11 2020 03:57 Kashim wrote: TvT zzzzzzz..........
No, no Z, that's the novelty in this top 4. I thought Liquipedia staff would know better
I mean, it‘s fine and well deserved, but I think full mirror Ro4 are generally speaking not the most entertaining stuff for many players. For obvious reasons. How often did that even happen in premier tournaments? I can‘t remember any ZvZvZvZ or PvPvPvP Ro4 and for TvTvTvT it‘s been 9 years.
TvTvTvT: 1) this tournament 2) 2011 Global StarCraft II League October 3) 2011 MLG Pro Circuit: Anaheim 4) 2011 GSL Super Tournament
ZvZvZvZ: HomeStory Cup VI (2012)
PvPvPvP: 2012 StarCraft II World Championship Series: Asia Finals
Seems like Cure's widow mines will haunt Serral's dreams for quite a few nights. As a Zerg player I have a mild trauma just from watching the series. The amount of disgusting shots my eyes have seen just cannot be unseen.
On October 11 2020 05:55 ytherik wrote: Seems like Cure's widow mines will haunt Serral's dreams for quite a few nights. As a Zerg player I have a mild trauma just from watching the series. The amount of disgusting shots my eyes have seen just cannot be unseen.
He is abusing cross server perfectly. I don’t think Serral / Reynor would lose so much to window mines with normal ping.
On October 11 2020 05:55 ytherik wrote: Seems like Cure's widow mines will haunt Serral's dreams for quite a few nights. As a Zerg player I have a mild trauma just from watching the series. The amount of disgusting shots my eyes have seen just cannot be unseen.
He is abusing cross server perfectly. I don’t think Serral / Reynor would lose so much to window mines with normal ping.
I'd agree with you except that several recent Reynor vs Clem series also featured absurd widow mine shot after absurd widow mine shot, and you can't blame ping there.
Even with all the widow mine shots the games went the distance for the most part so its nice to see terrans have some sort of ability to keep the zerg economy in check before entering the late game.
On October 11 2020 05:55 ytherik wrote: Seems like Cure's widow mines will haunt Serral's dreams for quite a few nights. As a Zerg player I have a mild trauma just from watching the series. The amount of disgusting shots my eyes have seen just cannot be unseen.
He is abusing cross server perfectly. I don’t think Serral / Reynor would lose so much to window mines with normal ping.
I'd agree with you except that several recent Reynor vs Clem series also featured absurd widow mine shot after absurd widow mine shot, and you can't blame ping there.
The skill level to get all those Widow Mine kills is pretty high too. It's not just a simple, load Mines into Medivacs, drop, and kill kind of move. To do it all across the map while keeping up with your macro and micro elsewhere is crazy. I tried doing it and sitting at 3.8k MMR, something will give.
Tournament organizers fucked Trap over pretty hard to rig the Maru/Serral match. 3 easy groups and you shoehorn the best Protoss in the tournament with Maru and Serral? Don't fucking tell me this was a random draw, the opening match of the tournament being the impossible matchup fans desired for 2 years? Have the decency to put the best Protoss in the world(the other contender for the title was literally in the hospital) in a fair group.
Random draws, you know, are random? It may very well happen that uneven groups are drawn. Trap had his chance to get out of the group, he was unlucky but he had his opportunities to beat Maru.
On October 11 2020 10:33 Xain0n wrote: Random draws, you know, are random? It may very well happen that uneven groups are drawn. Trap had his chance to get out of the group, he was unlucky but he had his opportunities to beat Maru.
Random draws where we don't have a single bit of information on how they're done get the most hyped matchup in the history of SC2 as a opening match! So lucky! (Fuck off with the Reynor/Serral, Stats/Serral Artosis/Serral are the best matchup coping bullshit, this is what everyone wanted, this is what doubled their views overnight.) We got Maru vs Serral, we liked it, we were dying to watch it, but lets not pretend it was not rigged.
Maru played some exception TvT against Innovation and I don't think Clem has ever played against the style shown by Maru today, let alone how to beat it. TY is one of the best in the mirror matches and while Cure has been on fire this tournament, I don't think his TvT is up to snuff. TY did destroy Cure 4-0 in the last GSL finals after all. Will be interesting to see how the games are tomorrow.
On October 11 2020 11:41 AttackZerg wrote: That is a libelous accusation.
Why would you say that without proof. You are calling real people, liars and cheats .... because your player didn't win games?
Very fucking uncool.
I'm not calling anyone a liar or a cheat, and i'm not accusing Serral of cheating his way to a win or anything. Doesn't even matter, Maru is still in it and Serral is out. Its their tournament, their money and they can run it however they please, and we as spectators should be free to question that. I'll just say that its funny that out of 16 players they got Maru vs Serral as an opening match. Surely if any seeding was done the first Korean to make it thru the qualifiers would not face the #1 EU seed right?
The people and sponsors who are running this tournament are the people you are calling liars and cheats.
If they did what you say, they would have potentially committed a crime. What you are saying is incredibly libelous. If you do not have proof, I stand by my comment, Very Uncool.
On October 11 2020 10:27 Morbidius wrote: Tournament organizers fucked Trap over pretty hard to rig the Maru/Serral match. 3 easy groups and you shoehorn the best Protoss in the tournament with Maru and Serral? Don't fucking tell me this was a random draw, the opening match of the tournament being the impossible matchup fans desired for 2 years? Have the decency to put the best Protoss in the world(the other contender for the title was literally in the hospital) in a fair group.
This is inconsistent nonsense. SCII bracket rigging accusations are flimsy conspiracy theories at their best, and this is probably one of the worst ones.
If the organizers were rigging the groups to get Maru/Serral, why would they have to screw over Trap to do so? They could arrange the groups however they wanted. And in years of semi-randomized brackets, Maru vs Serral was going to happen eventually--calling foul with no evidence when that eventuality eventually happened is a bit much. Well salty fans have to complain about something.
On October 11 2020 03:50 MarianoSC2 wrote: I think this may be the 4th time in a row Maru beating Inno and kinda easily as well. Who would have thought? Inno always had Marus number, his style looked like a hardcounter to Maru for years and now the tides have turned massively.
Happy to see Maru in the finals I hope it's against TY. Against Cure it would be too one sided
always had his number? Maru swept Inno in SSL a while back
On October 11 2020 10:27 Morbidius wrote: Tournament organizers fucked Trap over pretty hard to rig the Maru/Serral match. 3 easy groups and you shoehorn the best Protoss in the tournament with Maru and Serral? Don't fucking tell me this was a random draw, the opening match of the tournament being the impossible matchup fans desired for 2 years? Have the decency to put the best Protoss in the world(the other contender for the title was literally in the hospital) in a fair group.
This is inconsistent nonsense. SCII bracket rigging accusations are flimsy conspiracy theories at their best, and this is probably one of the worst ones.
If the organizers were rigging the groups to get Maru/Serral, why would they have to screw over Trap to do so? They could arrange the groups however they wanted. And in years of semi-randomized brackets, Maru vs Serral was going to happen eventually--calling foul with no evidence when that eventuality eventually happened is a bit much. Well salty fans have to complain about something.
Oh well, Its Starcraft and we all know no one ever did something questionable in these 22 great years. Either way this isn't ''questionable'' or ''libelous'', its just a matter of how seeding is done(or how its not done). If i wanted to sink into ''flimsy'' conspiracies i would still be telling people its not normal to build a third CC when you're being spine crawler rushed.
Good thing the community is there with its unerring acumen to call every throw matchfixing, and every bracket with an abnormal number of mirror match-ups as rigged (never mind basic statistics, or tournament organizer motivations).
On October 11 2020 10:27 Morbidius wrote: Tournament organizers fucked Trap over pretty hard to rig the Maru/Serral match. 3 easy groups and you shoehorn the best Protoss in the tournament with Maru and Serral? Don't fucking tell me this was a random draw, the opening match of the tournament being the impossible matchup fans desired for 2 years? Have the decency to put the best Protoss in the world(the other contender for the title was literally in the hospital) in a fair group.
This is inconsistent nonsense. SCII bracket rigging accusations are flimsy conspiracy theories at their best, and this is probably one of the worst ones.
If the organizers were rigging the groups to get Maru/Serral, why would they have to screw over Trap to do so? They could arrange the groups however they wanted. And in years of semi-randomized brackets, Maru vs Serral was going to happen eventually--calling foul with no evidence when that eventuality eventually happened is a bit much. Well salty fans have to complain about something.
Oh well, Its Starcraft and we all know no one ever did something questionable in these 22 great years. Either way this isn't ''questionable'' or ''libelous'', its just a matter of how seeding is done(or how its not done). If i wanted to sink into ''flimsy'' conspiracies i would still be telling people its not normal to build a third CC when you're being spine crawler rushed.
I understand your frustration, but you do not have evidence of the bracket being rigged.
If you claim the bracket is rigged to put Maru and Serral in the same group to make sure they meet, I can see that reasoning (even though there is no evidence of bracket rigging I must state).
However, there is no plausible reason to claim that Trap is screwed over because of that group. Neither Maru nor Serral is the undisputed number one player in their respective region, and in Maru's case, he is in 9th place, and lower ranking than Trap at the time of the bracket announcement.
If you look at group D, you got Reynor and Innovation, who have higher ranking than Serral and Maru in their respective region. By your logic, the other two player in their group is also deliberately put there so that they will not be able to get into the playoff, which is totally untrue.
I was watching TY vs Rogue, why is it that since Infested Terrans got removed, nobody makes Infestors anymore in ZvT? I feel like if you're going that heavy on ultra/ling/bane, a few Infestors for fungals would destroy that 4M army.
On October 11 2020 08:43 HugoBallzak wrote: Even with all the widow mine shots the games went the distance for the most part so its nice to see terrans have some sort of ability to keep the zerg economy in check before entering the late game.
Wait till zerg learn to defend it properly, then we will be back to the same shit of zerg economy running out of control entering late game.
On October 11 2020 10:33 Xain0n wrote: Random draws, you know, are random? It may very well happen that uneven groups are drawn. Trap had his chance to get out of the group, he was unlucky but he had his opportunities to beat Maru.
Random draws where we don't have a single bit of information on how they're done get the most hyped matchup in the history of SC2 as a opening match! So lucky! (Fuck off with the Reynor/Serral, Stats/Serral Artosis/Serral are the best matchup coping bullshit, this is what everyone wanted, this is what doubled their views overnight.) We got Maru vs Serral, we liked it, we were dying to watch it, but lets not pretend it was not rigged.
You do realize that eventually it was about to happen no matter what, don't you? Even if they rigged it, if Trap is so good, he should have advanced.
On October 11 2020 10:33 Xain0n wrote: Random draws, you know, are random? It may very well happen that uneven groups are drawn. Trap had his chance to get out of the group, he was unlucky but he had his opportunities to beat Maru.
Random draws where we don't have a single bit of information on how they're done get the most hyped matchup in the history of SC2 as a opening match! So lucky! (Fuck off with the Reynor/Serral, Stats/Serral Artosis/Serral are the best matchup coping bullshit, this is what everyone wanted, this is what doubled their views overnight.) We got Maru vs Serral, we liked it, we were dying to watch it, but lets not pretend it was not rigged.
On October 11 2020 10:33 Xain0n wrote: Random draws, you know, are random? It may very well happen that uneven groups are drawn. Trap had his chance to get out of the group, he was unlucky but he had his opportunities to beat Maru.
Random draws where we don't have a single bit of information on how they're done get the most hyped matchup in the history of SC2 as a opening match! So lucky! (Fuck off with the Reynor/Serral, Stats/Serral Artosis/Serral are the best matchup coping bullshit, this is what everyone wanted, this is what doubled their views overnight.) We got Maru vs Serral, we liked it, we were dying to watch it, but lets not pretend it was not rigged.
This must be one of the stupidest things I've read here. Just judging by statistics it's not at all unlikely that they eventually end up in a group.
What I don't get is their scheduling conflict with their other tournament so some players played at 4 AM or later... like, it's OKish if they're both Koreans, but if anyone was screwed it was Zoun(although I'm not gonna say he would have won with a better time slot as it didn't look so )
Maru v Serral (outside where seeding exists) never happening in a group or scheduled for the Ro8 or Ro4 for so long was the weird anomaly, not this occurring.
A tough day in the office for Trap but it’s a pretty stacked tournament. Of the 4 groups and on current form his group along with the group with Inno/Cure/Reynor you have a bunch of S class players and a player or two of the tier just below that.
There’s not a huge amount of shuffling I would do if I was hypothetically fixing brackets to keep some of the top dogs in, not a huge amount of manoeuvre.
They’re better distributed groups than the Ro16 in Code S was, although of course that’s decided very openly and transparently.
We should give credit to Cure for coming up with a relatively new style that works against LBM. His style of constant Widow Mine drops (with Drilling Claws) really pinned the Mutas back in their own bases, when normally it is the Mutas which pin the Terran back in their own bases. I'm very interested to see how the Zergs will respond to this. It's been too long since we have seen any new meta develop out of this (TvZ in the LBM matchup), so it's been very refreshing to see this.
Another element that I've noticed more and more as well is the use of more marauders in the Terran's composition and moving them to the front to tank banes now that they have been nerfed. Marauders were in the army comp before, but since the nerf, I think Terrans have found that it's much more cost effective to just tank the banes with the marauders with the marines sniping them from the back. Let's see how the Zergs will respond to that style as well. Changing metas are always very interesting to me.
On October 11 2020 19:42 buzz_bender wrote: We should give credit to Cure for coming up with a relatively new style that works against LBM. His style of constant Widow Mine drops (with Drilling Claws) really pinned the Mutas back in their own bases, when normally it is the Mutas which pin the Terran back in their own bases. I'm very interested to see how the Zergs will respond to this. It's been too long since we have seen any new meta develop out of this (TvZ in the LBM matchup), so it's been very refreshing to see this.
Another element that I've noticed more and more as well is the use of more marauders in the Terran's composition and moving them to the front to tank banes now that they have been nerfed. Marauders were in the army comp before, but since the nerf, I think Terrans have found that it's much more cost effective to just tank the banes with the marauders with the marines sniping them from the back. Let's see how the Zergs will respond to that style as well. Changing metas are always very interesting to me.
Yeah it’s definitely intriguing, I’m not as hardcore a Cure watcher as others but I don’t recall seeing him playing this style against Korean Zergs.
So I don’t know, it could be a new style Cure thinks is strong and he’s only recently polished, or tailored for Reynor’s style, or indeed something tailored for cross-server conditions.
Definitely intrigued to stay if this sticks around as a reliable consistent style or is merely a flavour of the week kind of thing.
On October 11 2020 22:46 Archerylady wrote: Hmmm Cure/Inno/TY just went 15-4 vs Rogue/Dark/Reynor/Serral over the last couple days. Strong shift in the meta?
Doubt it, just a few results over a few days. Plus those Terrans are all pretty stylistically different (and Maru and to a degree Clem are different again), I’m not seeing a huge amount of commonality in their play that we could really group together into a meta shift.
The year could be 2045 and Inno’s TvZ gameplan is still probably 3CC into 2/2 timing attacks. Cure’s playing TvZ like Maru used to play TvP with a huge mine-per-minute count. TY seems to like cooking stuff up via prep and Maru’s got his lategame ghost/lib style down to a level beyond everyone else.
That said, good to see Terrans doing well, I’m just not sure what to make of it in terms of wider trends.
Eye test wise I don’t think Serral and Reynor are playing as well as they have been and Dark certainly isn’t looking at the same level that gave him Blizzcon and a Code S
Really happy we are not going to get a Zerg winner, but really rough for me to be super happy about TvT :/ Its just sooo boring, 2nd worst matchup after broken ZvP.
Yea I don't see why Maru should want to try and kill Clem with cute shit when he's better in the midgame and late game positional battles. Force Clem to beat him staight up IMO.
On October 11 2020 23:31 irvnasty wrote: You can see the superior target firing from Maru. His marines clean tanks simultaneously, whereas Clem's all overkill them one by one.
On October 11 2020 23:37 MarianoSC2 wrote: Is that ping or is Clem really that much better in these early game micro skirmishes? 3rd time in a row where it wasnt even close...
I'm pretty sure it's ping. They could be playing in another server this game compared to the last.
On October 11 2020 23:37 MarianoSC2 wrote: Is that ping or is Clem really that much better in these early game micro skirmishes? 3rd time in a row where it wasnt even close...
Maru doesn't play these kinds of cross server matches often. It wouldn't surprise me if he's not accustomed to playing with this kind of ping.
That said, he is THIS far in this tournament so it's a little late to start complaining about it.
On October 12 2020 00:01 irvnasty wrote: Maru's investment in full sensor tower coverage seems near guaranteed to pay for itself given the importance of positioning in TvT.
It's just a wise idea in general in this match up.
Have to say very impressed by Clem so far. I was expecting a walkover but Clem actually has a better early game every time and played really impressively overall in this last map. Maru still should be on another level, but its a lot closer than I anticipated...
On October 11 2020 23:44 Elentos wrote: Ravens are way too oppressive in TvT
Yeah I’m really not a fan. Like all air units they bypass positioning round the terrain, but unlike other air units they punch holes for other units to push in through.
On October 11 2020 23:44 Elentos wrote: Ravens are way too oppressive in TvT
Yeah I’m really not a fan. Like all air units they bypass positioning round the terrain, but unlike other air units they punch holes for other units to push in through.
I wonder if we'll see any mech from Maru in this series. TY seems like a candidate to show some. Clem seems to virtually never mech, and I don't think Cure's mech is good enough to play against TY's positional expertise.
On October 12 2020 00:05 MarianoSC2 wrote: Have to say very impressed by Clem so far. I was expecting a walkover but Clem actually has a better early game every time and played really impressively overall in this last map. Maru still should be on another level, but its a lot closer than I anticipated...
Clem continues to surprise me with the pace of his development. He went from the ‘clearly talented and looking good while losing’ phase to beating Serral and Reynor more rapidly than I’d anticipated.
Likewise in smoothing out his clear weakest matchup. Still don’t think it’ll be enough to advance today but he’s holding his own against a Maru who looked really good against Inno the other day.
On October 12 2020 00:09 irvnasty wrote: I wonder if we'll see any mech from Maru in this series. TY seems like a candidate to show some. Clem seems to virtually never mech, and I don't think Cure's mech is good enough to play against TY's positional expertise.
Ravens have made pure Mech a really risky thing to do in TvT and the Korean meta is very high on Raven use.
Ironically, the Marine is the unit that counters the Raven the best so Marine/Tank is the meta for a good reason.
On October 12 2020 00:39 geokilla wrote: His engagements are just on point.
Yups, it's something about Maru's killer instinct and how quickly he can immediately judge whether a fight will go well or badly for him.
Probably the most underrated aspect of what makes a good Starcraft player.
Another user I remember pointing out as well that Maru’s tank siege/unsiege and judgement of range is outstanding as well. Been paying attention subsequently and it really is.
On October 12 2020 00:39 geokilla wrote: His engagements are just on point.
Yups, it's something about Maru's killer instinct and how quickly he can immediately judge whether a fight will go well or badly for him.
Probably the most underrated aspect of what makes a good Starcraft player.
Another user I remember pointing out as well that Maru’s tank siege/unsiege and judgement of range is outstanding as well. Been paying attention subsequently and it really is.
Yeah, I agree. There were so many times where their army clashes, and I was thinking "this is bad, Maru, retreat!!" but somehow he always (or almost always) comes out on top.
Clem honestly did better than I expected, but to be honest he never stood a chance against these elite TvT players. But as with everything as young as he is his future is bright. He can be the best if he keeps improving.
On October 12 2020 00:39 geokilla wrote: His engagements are just on point.
Yups, it's something about Maru's killer instinct and how quickly he can immediately judge whether a fight will go well or badly for him.
Another user I remember pointing out as well that Maru’s tank siege/unsiege and judgement of range is outstanding as well. Been paying attention subsequently and it really is.
Maru's siege/unsiege micro is mind blowing. Especially in games where he's behind, he can be down 5+ tanks in a fight and still trade and delay effectively.
On October 12 2020 00:51 Argonauta wrote: all Maru questions are about Clem lol
Typical interview for a foreigner tournament like this. Let's just ask the Koreans about the non-Koreans! We don't care about anything else after all! /s
I always mute this shit. It's better for my health that way.
On October 12 2020 00:51 Argonauta wrote: all Maru questions are about Clem lol
Typical interview for a foreigner tournament like this. Let's just ask the Koreans about the non-Koreans! We don't care about anything else after all! /s
I always mute this shit. It's better for my health that way.
On October 12 2020 01:00 Poopi wrote: Wait they are playing the finals today? Gosh they are gonna be so tired :/ the finals is gonna be lame even without cross server haha
It's not unusual for these guys to still be playing at these times tbh.
On October 12 2020 01:01 Acrofales wrote: What is wrong with the sound? Sounds as if they are messing around with the pitch. Very weird. Or is it just my stream?
The same thing happened to me. The sound somehow got into the lower pitch.
I really don't think Cure has a chance. His TvT is just too..... crude, and barbaric to defeat TY. It's like watching the Gauls try and defeat the Roman Legion.
TY is like a Jedi, who can see into the future. Like WTF, he just picked all his marines and went - screw it, Cure won't attack! BUT I CAN. *insert evil laugh*
On October 12 2020 01:16 Vindicare605 wrote: I really don't think Cure has a chance. His TvT is just too..... crude, and barbaric to defeat TY. It's like watching the Gauls try and defeat the Roman Legion.
But there's that small village which didn't surrender!
On October 12 2020 01:17 deacon.frost wrote: TY is like a Jedi, who can see into the future. Like WTF, he just picked all his marines and went - screw it, Cure won't attack! BUT I CAN. *insert evil laugh*
He's more of a Qui-Gon Jinn type of Jedi. Always living in the moment, not caring too much about the hazy future, taking big risks with Zen calmness.
On October 12 2020 01:16 Vindicare605 wrote: I really don't think Cure has a chance. His TvT is just too..... crude, and barbaric to defeat TY. It's like watching the Gauls try and defeat the Roman Legion.
I’d say it’s more akin to a Roman legion lead by a regular enough fellow vs a Roman legion lead by say, Caesar.
Cure has all the basics of Terran down and is well equipped for foreign campaigns to slay Zergs and Protoss players.
Vs TY he is using the same equipment and the same general military doctrine against a real top class general.
On October 12 2020 01:16 Vindicare605 wrote: I really don't think Cure has a chance. His TvT is just too..... crude, and barbaric to defeat TY. It's like watching the Gauls try and defeat the Roman Legion.
I’d say it’s more akin to a Roman legion lead by a regular enough fellow vs a Roman legion lead by say, Caesar.
Cure has all the basics of Terran down and is well equipped for foreign campaigns to slay Zergs and Protoss players.
Vs TY he is using the same equipment and the same general military doctrine against a real top class general.
Calling Cure an ordinary bloke is underselling him. He rates at least to be called a Pompey.
On October 12 2020 01:17 Poopi wrote: I would be super impressed if Maru managed to beat TY
Maru is underrated in TvT. Maybe because he does not play it as often. This year he is 10-2 in bo3+ (losses against Cure in last dreamhack finals, and against Inno in GSL groupstage).
TY is 29-9.
And these 2 always have been kinda even so I would not be surprised at all if Maru took it.
On October 12 2020 01:17 Poopi wrote: I would be super impressed if Maru managed to beat TY
Maru is underrated in TvT. Maybe because he does not play it as often. This year he is 10-2 in bo3+ (losses against Cure in last dreamhack finals, and against Inno in GSL groupstage).
TY is 29-9.
And these 2 always have been kinda even so I would not be surprised at all if Maru took it.
That was the last time these two faced off in a Bo7.
And if you:Run the Head to Head It's a perfectly even 50%. There's no reason to suggest that Maru is gonna lose to TY just as a matter of fact. The truth is that they're both elite and the match will be as even as one can possibly be.
On October 12 2020 01:42 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Am I the only person who, watching thing game, feels like Maru should be pretty favored today whoever gets to the finals?
TY is too good at TvT for me to consider anyone to be favored against him, EVER. That said, Maru is about the most difficult opponent he can ask for.
On October 12 2020 01:16 Vindicare605 wrote: I really don't think Cure has a chance. His TvT is just too..... crude, and barbaric to defeat TY. It's like watching the Gauls try and defeat the Roman Legion.
I’d say it’s more akin to a Roman legion lead by a regular enough fellow vs a Roman legion lead by say, Caesar.
Cure has all the basics of Terran down and is well equipped for foreign campaigns to slay Zergs and Protoss players.
Vs TY he is using the same equipment and the same general military doctrine against a real top class general.
Calling Cure an ordinary bloke is underselling him. He rates at least to be called a Pompey.
On October 12 2020 01:17 Poopi wrote: I would be super impressed if Maru managed to beat TY
Maru is underrated in TvT. Maybe because he does not play it as often. This year he is 10-2 in bo3+ (losses against Cure in last dreamhack finals, and against Inno in GSL groupstage).
TY is 29-9.
And these 2 always have been kinda even so I would not be surprised at all if Maru took it.
That was the last time these two faced off in a Bo7.
And if you:Run the Head to Head It's a perfectly even 50%. There's no reason to suggest that Maru is gonna lose to TY just as a matter of fact. The truth is that they're both elite and the match will be as even as one can possibly be.
Maru is a strange one. I’ve known not to underestimate him in an individual TvT since he smacked Inno 4-0 in a GSL all those years ago.
If we took the top Terrans and had them play tons of games against each other with a point for every win I think TY wins that by a fair distance.
An individual series, can’t count Maru out. He looked pretty imperious against Inno the other day.
Hah. Both of these series I thought would be a 4-0 or 4-1. But both Clem and Cure are showing they have a lot more fight than I was expecting them to have. Respect. Maybe it's a knock on Maru and TY, but I'd rather just give credit to the competitors.
I'd be shocked if Cure actually came back here, but seeing him compete is nice to see.
This is how you imagine Maru would play against TY and it worked for Cure.
If Maru plays TY in the finals, I wonder if he will also go for that style today or if it's going to be more of the defensive approach that he has had in all matchups lately.
On October 12 2020 01:16 Vindicare605 wrote: I really don't think Cure has a chance. His TvT is just too..... crude, and barbaric to defeat TY. It's like watching the Gauls try and defeat the Roman Legion.
I guess the battle of Alesia really could have gone either way. Cure rewriting history. The Barbarians are in the finals!
On October 12 2020 02:35 royalroadweed wrote: Is this a major or premier? Could Cure leave kong status if he wins?
Eh. First place is "only" 7.8k. It's hardly a Code S or Blizzcon title. It's a great win sure but I'm not sure if it counts as winning an actual "Premier" tournament.
On October 12 2020 02:35 royalroadweed wrote: Is this a major or premier? Could Cure leave kong status if he wins?
Eh. First place is "only" 7.8k. It's hardly a Code S or Blizzcon title. It's a great win sure but I'm not sure if it counts as winning an actual "Premier" tournament.
It would be an incredible run if he wins though. Maybe only Rogue's IEM run through Dark, Maru and Zest (with wins over soo and reynor in the group stage) being a more impressive 2020 run.
On October 12 2020 02:34 Charoisaur wrote: Okay if Cure wins this he is a god. Beating Reynor and Serral and then TY and Maru in TvT...
Maru's TvT is really good though
That was his point.
If Cure wins this, he would have had the hardest bracket possible on his road to winning. Serral and Reynor in TvZ obviously but also TY and Maru two of the most elite of TvT players.
On October 12 2020 02:34 Charoisaur wrote: Okay if Cure wins this he is a god. Beating Reynor and Serral and then TY and Maru in TvT...
Maru's TvT is really good though
That was his point.
If Cure wins this, he would have had the hardest bracket possible on his road to winning. Serral and Reynor in TvZ obviously but also TY and Maru two of the most elite of TvT players.
I don't know about that. I feel online SC2 is the same as online CS:GO right now. There's no true God or best player this year due to the circumstances and the lag between servers. The time zone making it 3AM in Korean doesn't help either.
On October 12 2020 02:34 Charoisaur wrote: Okay if Cure wins this he is a god. Beating Reynor and Serral and then TY and Maru in TvT...
Maru's TvT is really good though
That was his point.
If Cure wins this, he would have had the hardest bracket possible on his road to winning. Serral and Reynor in TvZ obviously but also TY and Maru two of the most elite of TvT players.
I don't know about that. I feel online SC2 is the same as online CS:GO right now. There's no true God or best player this year due to the circumstances and the lag between servers. The time zone making it 3AM in Korean doesn't help either.
I don't like admitting it but ping matters less in a Starcraft series. FPS by their very nature can be decided much more by a random stray shot that lands or misses because of ping. Starcraft has more dynamics in it that allows you play around ping than FPS games do.
So it's not a fair comparison to make. Also, the fact it's 1v1 and not a team game means that ping is less of an issue than it would be with 10 players all with different latencies playing in the same match.
this lets look at the bottom part of the image type of casting is debatable. OFC Cure is going to have more supply if he is reactoring marines and Maru is pumping out cyclones.
On October 12 2020 02:34 Charoisaur wrote: Okay if Cure wins this he is a god. Beating Reynor and Serral and then TY and Maru in TvT...
Maru's TvT is really good though
That was his point.
If Cure wins this, he would have had the hardest bracket possible on his road to winning. Serral and Reynor in TvZ obviously but also TY and Maru two of the most elite of TvT players.
I don't know about that. I feel online SC2 is the same as online CS:GO right now. There's no true God or best player this year due to the circumstances and the lag between servers. The time zone making it 3AM in Korean doesn't help either.
I don't like admitting it but ping matters less in a Starcraft series. FPS by their very nature can be decided much more by a random stray shot that lands or misses because of ping. Starcraft has more dynamics in it that allows you play around ping than FPS games do.
So it's not a fair comparison to make. Also, the fact it's 1v1 and not a team game means that ping is less of an issue than it would be with 10 players all with different latencies playing in the same match.
In CSGO they literally aren't playing any cross server/continent matches for that reason. In sc2 they still are, so ping is actually more of an issue here.
On October 12 2020 04:08 royalroadweed wrote: 2/2 + cheeto dust gonna wreck cure
I still can't believe they kept that horrible color for 3 years, i was sure it was a placeholder when i first saw it. Tempest new upgrade is also ugly af.
If Maru is telling the truth and he didn't prepare at all for this tournament. I'd say that says some good things about how on form he is for GSL's Ro8. He has his work cut out for him with the bracket that he has, but if he plays better than this tournament with preparation I'd say he has a good chance of going after that coveted G5L trophy.
On October 12 2020 04:33 Xain0n wrote: So disappointing.
I am extremely sad for Cure, he defeated Reynor twice, Serral and TyT only to lose once more in the grand finals...
It seemed like recently whoever defeated Serral, he got smashed in the final. These happened to Reynor in Blizzcon 2019, Zest in IEM 2020, and now Cure.
On October 12 2020 04:33 Xain0n wrote: So disappointing.
I am extremely sad for Cure, he defeated Reynor twice, Serral and TyT only to lose once more in the grand finals...
It seemed like recently whoever defeated Serral, he got smashed in the final. These happened to Reynor in Blizzcon 2019, Zest in IEM 2020, and now Cure.
Almost as though it doesn't take a tournament winner to smash Serral....
On October 12 2020 04:42 Vindicare605 wrote: If Maru is telling the truth and he didn't prepare at all for this tournament. I'd say that says some good things about how on form he is for GSL's Ro8. He has his work cut out for him with the bracket that he has, but if he plays better than this tournament with preparation I'd say he has a good chance of going after that coveted G5L trophy.
For all the games today, Maru went macro. I don't recall Maru doing too many all-ins with proxy raxes, which he is known to do.
I suppose when the game goes to a macro game, there is only so much that preparation can do. Macro games come down to skill in the long run. And pros like Maru have practiced a lot on the maps so they more or less know what to look out for in each map.
On the other hand, analyzing an opponent's habits and play style and using some terrain/quirk on the map to abuse the opponent's habits, and crafting a build specifically for an opponent, comes with preparation. I don't really think Maru had any prepared builds today for his opponents, he just went mostly for macro games and his skill in macro games came through.
Maru is so good. Cure looked like he had it a few times throughout the series but Maru defended perfectly. Bit sad we didn't get to see more games but seeing Maru play like this. Wow.
On October 12 2020 04:42 Vindicare605 wrote: If Maru is telling the truth and he didn't prepare at all for this tournament. I'd say that says some good things about how on form he is for GSL's Ro8. He has his work cut out for him with the bracket that he has, but if he plays better than this tournament with preparation I'd say he has a good chance of going after that coveted G5L trophy.
For all the games today, Maru went macro. I don't recall Maru doing too many all-ins with proxy raxes, which he is known to do.
This is Maru in every tournament. Since his injuries became open he's just been playing defensive on 3-4 bases until he wins.
On October 12 2020 04:42 Vindicare605 wrote: If Maru is telling the truth and he didn't prepare at all for this tournament. I'd say that says some good things about how on form he is for GSL's Ro8. He has his work cut out for him with the bracket that he has, but if he plays better than this tournament with preparation I'd say he has a good chance of going after that coveted G5L trophy.
For all the games today, Maru went macro. I don't recall Maru doing too many all-ins with proxy raxes, which he is known to do.
This is Maru in every tournament. Since his injuries became open he's just been playing defensive on 3-4 bases until he wins.
Maru played like this even in 2018. The narrative that he only ever won with aggressive builds and proxies was started by people who wanted to downplay his achievements. He's been the best late game T for years in all matchups.
On October 12 2020 04:42 Vindicare605 wrote: If Maru is telling the truth and he didn't prepare at all for this tournament. I'd say that says some good things about how on form he is for GSL's Ro8. He has his work cut out for him with the bracket that he has, but if he plays better than this tournament with preparation I'd say he has a good chance of going after that coveted G5L trophy.
I'm not so confident in him (or any T) beating Stats or especially Trap in a TvP currently
On October 12 2020 04:42 Vindicare605 wrote: If Maru is telling the truth and he didn't prepare at all for this tournament. I'd say that says some good things about how on form he is for GSL's Ro8. He has his work cut out for him with the bracket that he has, but if he plays better than this tournament with preparation I'd say he has a good chance of going after that coveted G5L trophy.
For all the games today, Maru went macro. I don't recall Maru doing too many all-ins with proxy raxes, which he is known to do.
This is Maru in every tournament. Since his injuries became open he's just been playing defensive on 3-4 bases until he wins.
Maru played like this even in 2018. The narrative that he only ever won with aggressive builds and proxies was started by people who wanted to downplay his achievements. He's been the best late game T for years in all matchups.
Yeah, while every other terran mindlessly parade pushed Maru would extend games to 50 minutes and win with casters and libs. Even when he proxied a ton most of the games went to long macro ones.
On October 12 2020 04:42 Vindicare605 wrote: If Maru is telling the truth and he didn't prepare at all for this tournament. I'd say that says some good things about how on form he is for GSL's Ro8. He has his work cut out for him with the bracket that he has, but if he plays better than this tournament with preparation I'd say he has a good chance of going after that coveted G5L trophy.
I'm not so confident in him (or any T) beating Stats or especially Trap in a TvP currently
The way Stats looked the other night I don't blame you. I can't theorycraft a single answer to what Trap was doing vs Maru, so it's gonna take someone much more clever than me to figure that out.
Thing is though, I happen to think that Maru is smarter than I am, so I have faith.
On October 12 2020 04:42 Vindicare605 wrote: If Maru is telling the truth and he didn't prepare at all for this tournament. I'd say that says some good things about how on form he is for GSL's Ro8. He has his work cut out for him with the bracket that he has, but if he plays better than this tournament with preparation I'd say he has a good chance of going after that coveted G5L trophy.
Not sure it’s a translation thing, some difference between how the practice/prepare distinction is transmitted or something.
I’ve heard it a fair few times, actually from Maru himself regarding Stats in his last GSL group.
I can only assume Maru means he didn’t prepare specific counter plans for these various opponents, not that he didn’t prepare/practice full stop.
His current shape seems way too high for him to be light on practice.
Could absolutely believe he’s not prepping specific strats though given his general game plan of late across all matchups is stay alive and defend like a god until he gets to the lategame where he shows his chops.
To be fair, Cure had just finished a grueling 7 game series against TY before getting a 5 minute break to start all over again with Maru, who watched all the games.
On October 12 2020 04:42 Vindicare605 wrote: If Maru is telling the truth and he didn't prepare at all for this tournament. I'd say that says some good things about how on form he is for GSL's Ro8. He has his work cut out for him with the bracket that he has, but if he plays better than this tournament with preparation I'd say he has a good chance of going after that coveted G5L trophy.
I'm not so confident in him (or any T) beating Stats or especially Trap in a TvP currently
The way Stats looked the other night I don't blame you. I can't theorycraft a single answer to what Trap was doing vs Maru, so it's gonna take someone much more clever than me to figure that out.
Thing is though, I happen to think that Maru is smarter than I am, so I have faith.
uThermal broke down a game from that series (from Maru’s POV too) alas not the whole series.
The analysis seemed solid to me at the time, and seems even better with retrospect as Maru was repeating some of the same trends and moves against Parting in their GSL games. For example transitioning to a really technical late game army but he’ll consistently leave 15-25 supply spare for a bio hitsquad that roams to snipe bases but also defends things like runbys so he can keep his really technical and valuable main army in the pivotal map position he wants them. If it dies in his duty he’ll leave the space to remake it.
Probably would have done against Stats too but he died before that real lategame hit.
On October 12 2020 04:33 Xain0n wrote: So disappointing.
I am extremely sad for Cure, he defeated Reynor twice, Serral and TyT only to lose once more in the grand finals...
It seemed like recently whoever defeated Serral, he got smashed in the final. These happened to Reynor in Blizzcon 2019, Zest in IEM 2020, and now Cure.
Almost as though it doesn't take a tournament winner to smash Serral....
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
I'm laughing. Maru didn't beat Serral, in fact! It was the opposite before BlizzCon.
The legend says I always speak of Serral but the fact is that you can't resist sticking it into every thread and every conversation; Serral was pretty marginal in my comment, yet that's what you saw.
His successes must really be permanent scars for you elitists.
On October 12 2020 04:42 Vindicare605 wrote: If Maru is telling the truth and he didn't prepare at all for this tournament. I'd say that says some good things about how on form he is for GSL's Ro8. He has his work cut out for him with the bracket that he has, but if he plays better than this tournament with preparation I'd say he has a good chance of going after that coveted G5L trophy.
For all the games today, Maru went macro. I don't recall Maru doing too many all-ins with proxy raxes, which he is known to do.
This is Maru in every tournament. Since his injuries became open he's just been playing defensive on 3-4 bases until he wins.
Maru played like this even in 2018. The narrative that he only ever won with aggressive builds and proxies was started by people who wanted to downplay his achievements. He's been the best late game T for years in all matchups.
Yeah he often played such style. He just started proxying A LOT in TvP when it was good and midgame/lategame were very difficult / not optimal ; and in TvZ 2rax as macro isn't allin, I didn't see him do 3rax (which is allin) very often, if at all.
I'm very happy Maru won, didn't catch the games from the finals but still impressive. Hopefully he can get that 5th GSL
On October 12 2020 04:42 Vindicare605 wrote: If Maru is telling the truth and he didn't prepare at all for this tournament. I'd say that says some good things about how on form he is for GSL's Ro8. He has his work cut out for him with the bracket that he has, but if he plays better than this tournament with preparation I'd say he has a good chance of going after that coveted G5L trophy.
I'm not so confident in him (or any T) beating Stats or especially Trap in a TvP currently
It would really be time for a Protoss to win Code S.
On October 12 2020 04:33 Xain0n wrote: So disappointing.
I am extremely sad for Cure, he defeated Reynor twice, Serral and TyT only to lose once more in the grand finals...
It seemed like recently whoever defeated Serral, he got smashed in the final. These happened to Reynor in Blizzcon 2019, Zest in IEM 2020, and now Cure.
Almost as though it doesn't take a tournament winner to smash Serral....
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
I'm laughing. Maru didn't beat Serral, in fact! It was the opposite before BlizzCon.
The legend says I always speak of Serral but the fact is that you can't resist sticking it into every thread and every conversation; Serral was pretty marginal in my comment, yet that's what you saw.
His successes must really be permanent scars for you elitists.
Maru didn't have to beat Serral because Serral got completely smashed in the quarterfinals. Not Maru's fault.
On October 12 2020 04:33 Xain0n wrote: So disappointing.
I am extremely sad for Cure, he defeated Reynor twice, Serral and TyT only to lose once more in the grand finals...
It seemed like recently whoever defeated Serral, he got smashed in the final. These happened to Reynor in Blizzcon 2019, Zest in IEM 2020, and now Cure.
Almost as though it doesn't take a tournament winner to smash Serral....
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
I'm laughing. Maru didn't beat Serral, in fact! It was the opposite before BlizzCon.
The legend says I always speak of Serral but the fact is that you can't resist sticking it into every thread and every conversation; Serral was pretty marginal in my comment, yet that's what you saw.
His successes must really be permanent scars for you elitists.
Maru didn't have to beat Serral because Serral got completely smashed in the quarterfinals. Not Maru's fault.
On October 12 2020 04:42 Vindicare605 wrote: If Maru is telling the truth and he didn't prepare at all for this tournament. I'd say that says some good things about how on form he is for GSL's Ro8. He has his work cut out for him with the bracket that he has, but if he plays better than this tournament with preparation I'd say he has a good chance of going after that coveted G5L trophy.
For all the games today, Maru went macro. I don't recall Maru doing too many all-ins with proxy raxes, which he is known to do.
This is Maru in every tournament. Since his injuries became open he's just been playing defensive on 3-4 bases until he wins.
Maru played like this even in 2018. The narrative that he only ever won with aggressive builds and proxies was started by people who wanted to downplay his achievements. He's been the best late game T for years in all matchups.
Maru has played like this forever, it's just rarely every game. 2018 was a fair mix of lategames, timings, and proxies.
On October 12 2020 04:33 Xain0n wrote: So disappointing.
I am extremely sad for Cure, he defeated Reynor twice, Serral and TyT only to lose once more in the grand finals...
It seemed like recently whoever defeated Serral, he got smashed in the final. These happened to Reynor in Blizzcon 2019, Zest in IEM 2020, and now Cure.
Almost as though it doesn't take a tournament winner to smash Serral....
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
I'm laughing. Maru didn't beat Serral, in fact! It was the opposite before BlizzCon.
The legend says I always speak of Serral but the fact is that you can't resist sticking it into every thread and every conversation; Serral was pretty marginal in my comment, yet that's what you saw.
His successes must really be permanent scars for you elitists.
So what's your justification this time? Is Cure the new best in the world like you were hyping Clem to be just only a couple days ago?
Isn't it just about time you learned to accept that your lord and savior is mortal?
What I find funny is that you're equating my responses about Serral to his achievements instead of what is more obvious. My responses are in response to his rabid fans, like you who can't help but jump in EVERY TIME his name is mentioned.
I checked, Xainon you didn't post a single thing in this thread until I mentioned Serral and you could not RESIST defending him when even in my post I mentioned that it was a light hearted joke.
You really can't help yourself. It's no wonder that people want to tempt you into responding, it's way too easy.
On October 12 2020 04:33 Xain0n wrote: So disappointing.
I am extremely sad for Cure, he defeated Reynor twice, Serral and TyT only to lose once more in the grand finals...
It seemed like recently whoever defeated Serral, he got smashed in the final. These happened to Reynor in Blizzcon 2019, Zest in IEM 2020, and now Cure.
Almost as though it doesn't take a tournament winner to smash Serral....
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
I'm laughing. Maru didn't beat Serral, in fact! It was the opposite before BlizzCon.
The legend says I always speak of Serral but the fact is that you can't resist sticking it into every thread and every conversation; Serral was pretty marginal in my comment, yet that's what you saw.
His successes must really be permanent scars for you elitists.
So what's your justification this time? Is Cure the new best in the world like you were hyping Clem to be just only a couple days ago?
Isn't it just about time you learned to accept that your lord and savior is mortal?
What I find funny is that you're equating my responses about Serral to his achievements instead of what is more obvious. My responses are in response to his rabid fans, like you who can't help but jump in EVERY TIME his name is mentioned.
I checked, Xianon you didn't post a single thing in this thread until I mentioned Serral and you could not RESIST defending him when even in my post I mentioned that it was a light hearted joke.
You really can't help yourself. It's no wonder that people want to tempt you into responding, it's way too easy.
What I hate the most is - look at his reply. He's defending Serral like you said that Maru had beaten him while the joke is about the fact Maru failed at it. And then he throws in random Blizzcon fact. Also stop being the bad person and adding Serral into it (while again, you reacted on a post mentioning him).
On October 12 2020 04:33 Xain0n wrote: So disappointing.
I am extremely sad for Cure, he defeated Reynor twice, Serral and TyT only to lose once more in the grand finals...
It seemed like recently whoever defeated Serral, he got smashed in the final. These happened to Reynor in Blizzcon 2019, Zest in IEM 2020, and now Cure.
Almost as though it doesn't take a tournament winner to smash Serral....
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
I'm laughing. Maru didn't beat Serral, in fact! It was the opposite before BlizzCon.
The legend says I always speak of Serral but the fact is that you can't resist sticking it into every thread and every conversation; Serral was pretty marginal in my comment, yet that's what you saw.
His successes must really be permanent scars for you elitists.
So what's your justification this time? Is Cure the new best in the world like you were hyping Clem to be just only a couple days ago?
Isn't it just about time you learned to accept that your lord and savior is mortal?
What I find funny is that you're equating my responses about Serral to his achievements instead of what is more obvious. My responses are in response to his rabid fans, like you who can't help but jump in EVERY TIME his name is mentioned.
I checked, Xainon you didn't post a single thing in this thread until I mentioned Serral and you could not RESIST defending him when even in my post I mentioned that it was a light hearted joke.
You really can't help yourself. It's no wonder that people want to tempt you into responding, it's way too easy.
You checked and failed. I posted at the end of the final match to express my disappointment after seeing Cure lose another final, you replied to a post which replied to mine... I have never said that Clem is the best in the world, what the hell are you smoking? What I said is that considering Clem vs Reynor the best possible TvZ in the last two months would have been quite reasonable.
The Blizzcon reference was not to the one Serral won, it would have made no sense. It was an answer to Swarminfestor's post, before BlizzCon 2019 the people beating Serral were always winning tournaments whereas now, as he says, they reach the finals and lose(badly).
On October 12 2020 04:33 Xain0n wrote: So disappointing.
I am extremely sad for Cure, he defeated Reynor twice, Serral and TyT only to lose once more in the grand finals...
It seemed like recently whoever defeated Serral, he got smashed in the final. These happened to Reynor in Blizzcon 2019, Zest in IEM 2020, and now Cure.
Almost as though it doesn't take a tournament winner to smash Serral....
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
I'm laughing. Maru didn't beat Serral, in fact! It was the opposite before BlizzCon.
The legend says I always speak of Serral but the fact is that you can't resist sticking it into every thread and every conversation; Serral was pretty marginal in my comment, yet that's what you saw.
His successes must really be permanent scars for you elitists.
So what's your justification this time? Is Cure the new best in the world like you were hyping Clem to be just only a couple days ago?
Isn't it just about time you learned to accept that your lord and savior is mortal?
What I find funny is that you're equating my responses about Serral to his achievements instead of what is more obvious. My responses are in response to his rabid fans, like you who can't help but jump in EVERY TIME his name is mentioned.
I checked, Xainon you didn't post a single thing in this thread until I mentioned Serral and you could not RESIST defending him when even in my post I mentioned that it was a light hearted joke.
You really can't help yourself. It's no wonder that people want to tempt you into responding, it's way too easy.
You checked and failed. I posted at the end of the final match to express my disappointment after seeing Cure lose another final, you replied to a post which replied to mine... I have never said that Clem is the best in the world, what the hell are you smoking? What I said is that considering Clem vs Reynor the best possible TvZ in the last two months would have been quite reasonable.
The Blizzcon reference was not to the one Serral won, it would have made no sense. It was an answer to Swarminfestor's post, before BlizzCon 2019 the people beating Serral were always winning tournaments whereas now, as he says, they reach the finals and lose(badly).
that means he is no longer the elephant in the tournament anymoar : ]
Shouldn't Clem get some respect for finding a way to take 2 maps from Maru, something Cure and Inno were not able to?
If Maru had prepped a bit better, he would have known that Clem likes to delay his upgrades in TvT and hit some deadly early midgame pushes, but Clem did not win by cheesing IMO.
On October 13 2020 14:45 Slydie wrote: Shouldn't Clem get some respect for finding a way to take 2 maps from Maru, something Cure and Inno were not able to?
If Maru had prepped a bit better, he would have known that Clem likes to delay his upgrades in TvT and hit some deadly early midgame pushes, but Clem did not win by cheesing IMO.
I'm more surprised that Maru beat Inno and Cure so clearly than Clem beeing able to make it a match
On October 13 2020 14:45 Slydie wrote: Shouldn't Clem get some respect for finding a way to take 2 maps from Maru, something Cure and Inno were not able to?
If Maru had prepped a bit better, he would have known that Clem likes to delay his upgrades in TvT and hit some deadly early midgame pushes, but Clem did not win by cheesing IMO.
It’s impressive for sure, but there is still the shadow of cross server to take into account. I’m pretty sure INno/Cure are probably still favorites against Clem on even ground (and they are a bit more accustomed to ping than Maru so maybe even in cross server)
On October 13 2020 14:45 Slydie wrote: Shouldn't Clem get some respect for finding a way to take 2 maps from Maru, something Cure and Inno were not able to?
If Maru had prepped a bit better, he would have known that Clem likes to delay his upgrades in TvT and hit some deadly early midgame pushes, but Clem did not win by cheesing IMO.
It’s impressive for sure, but there is still the shadow of cross server to take into account. I’m pretty sure INno/Cure are probably still favorites against Clem on even ground (and they are a bit more accustomed to ping than Maru so maybe even in cross server)
Also there\s the thing that Maru knows both ofthem much better than CLem from the Korean competition, practice games and ladder.
Edit> not downplaying Clem, great play by him nonetheless.
On October 13 2020 14:45 Slydie wrote: Shouldn't Clem get some respect for finding a way to take 2 maps from Maru, something Cure and Inno were not able to?
If Maru had prepped a bit better, he would have known that Clem likes to delay his upgrades in TvT and hit some deadly early midgame pushes, but Clem did not win by cheesing IMO.
All credit in the world, Clem’s developing rather nicely, although Maru was that bit better.
Certainly a good sign moving forwards. Compared to previous times especially, T are less of an endangered species these days later in brackets, so a player can only go so far if their vT isn’t up to par.
On October 13 2020 14:45 Slydie wrote: Shouldn't Clem get some respect for finding a way to take 2 maps from Maru, something Cure and Inno were not able to?
If Maru had prepped a bit better, he would have known that Clem likes to delay his upgrades in TvT and hit some deadly early midgame pushes, but Clem did not win by cheesing IMO.
All credit in the world, Clem’s developing rather nicely, although Maru was that bit better.
Certainly a good sign moving forwards. Compared to previous times especially, T are less of an endangered species these days later in brackets, so a player can only go so far if their vT isn’t up to par.
Maru also stated he was worried about ping and did his best to avoid micro battles with Clem. I'm not trying to take anything away from Clem, but that is a factor that could have impacted his decision making and engagements at times where it cost him the game.
On October 13 2020 14:45 Slydie wrote: Shouldn't Clem get some respect for finding a way to take 2 maps from Maru, something Cure and Inno were not able to?
If Maru had prepped a bit better, he would have known that Clem likes to delay his upgrades in TvT and hit some deadly early midgame pushes, but Clem did not win by cheesing IMO.
All credit in the world, Clem’s developing rather nicely, although Maru was that bit better.
Certainly a good sign moving forwards. Compared to previous times especially, T are less of an endangered species these days later in brackets, so a player can only go so far if their vT isn’t up to par.
Maru also stated he was worried about ping and did his best to avoid micro battles with Clem. I'm not trying to take anything away from Clem, but that is a factor that could have impacted his decision making and engagements at times where it cost him the game.
Makes sense, especially the early game skirmishes.
If we exclude early skirmishes where Clem is amazing, or a guy like ByuN gets value, TvT is to my estimation probably the least affected by ping of T matchups. Makes sense to play to try and be safe in the real early game skirmishes and just win through general superiority.
Especially in the meta we have now where mech is a rather endangered style, TvZ is probably the most affected by a distance of the T matchups.
I think these series have been a reasonably accurate showing of the TvT chops of the two, or slightly favouring Clem based on the games he did well he often had the better of early skirmishes.
TvZ cross server, nah it just seems really wonky. Probably why Clem vs Reynor/Serral has given such good games in that ping has been less of a factor.
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/oEjfir8.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/qdxPeHW.png)
King of Battles
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AlphaX 
OGaming 
BelAir 
SCBoy 
Matiz 
3D!Clan
C'mon, we need focus on the important thigns, TPM!
Serral 3 - 2 
Cure
Zoun 3 - 0 
