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On November 26 2018 08:08 TheNewEra wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2018 08:04 Swisslink wrote:On November 26 2018 08:00 TheNewEra wrote:
Watched every singly HSC but I feel weirdly emotional about this one. But maybe it's just Closing Time Let's hope not. Apparently StarCraft regains some popularity again and with it, Homestory Cup generates more money as well. And all the guys still seem to have a lot of fun doing this event. As mentioned before: I hope there will be lots of Homestory Cups, even after the one in Vegas. Sorry you misunderstood me  Closing Time was a reference to the last song which was played
That's better! But I had a somewhat weird feeling with all the talk about HSCXX. It was promoted as THE ultimate HSC-Event. And ultimate is a scary word with its double meaning. :-P
Regarding Serral vs. Maru: I would argue Maru is better in a direct Matchup. Does that make him a better player? Wouldn't argue so. Serral has two matchups where he looks pretty much invincible. Different players have different really good matchups and with the lack of foreign Terrans I'm not surprised Serral is having a hard time dealing with the Korean ones.
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On November 26 2018 08:16 Penev wrote:
When Artosis calls someone bonjwa (every other week) I immediately fear for their careers
OOOOOH, but with Serral in the Code S we can really test the Artosis Curse!!!! THE ULTIMATE TEST IS AHEAD!!!!
I hope Serral really attends the Code S.
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I don't think Serral is a bonjwa in the sense of being one of the greatest careerwise. Even though that's not how most people would necessarily define bonjwa, I still believe that is an important requirement. The broodwar bonjwas did not only have the most dominant peaks but if you were to have a greatest of all time list, every bonjwa and Jaedong would be in the top 6 of that list. And tbh in terms of achievements, Serral still has a long way to go before he's considered among the greatest of all time in all eras (if I were to guess he is somewhere in the top 20) but if he continues this run for a another year or two, then it is a possibility. But for now, I am comfortable with saying he is the best in the world and his run is one of the more impressive, but calling him bonjwa is premature.
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On November 26 2018 08:04 Kitai wrote:
I know it seems sacred on this site, but at what point do we get to start referring to Serral as the b-word?
We did not have a Bonjwa in SC2, there are players who are very close like for example Innovation, MVP and soO but the problem is that most players either fail to dominate for a considerable amount of time or fail to perform when it matters the most.
And thus it's not about who is a Bonjwa but rather who is closest to becoming one.
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HSC is such a great tournament. Love the atmosphere. So happy Serral won <3
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On November 26 2018 08:05 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2018 08:03 Xain0n wrote:On November 26 2018 07:52 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 07:52 Poopi wrote:On November 26 2018 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 07:49 gTank wrote:
Fuck yeah Serral did it again!!! Cant wait for the korean fanboys make up excuses on how he still is not the best player atm. Well as we just saw he has issues against Terrans and the top terrans were not there(TY, Maru), so technically we don't know. Both Maru and TY are a level above Innovation(or at least they were from what we know). Even Gumiho is better than Inno in my eyes(though not that much of difference). And since Maru was winning Code S ...  I think INno got better than Gumiho during BlizzCon period HOWEVER, Gumiho would be good at the uThermal style so depending on how viable it really is Gumiho might be better vZ Even if, both Maru and TY were level above Innovation if we go from the old data. So "now Serral is the best because he has beaten 2nd grade Korean Terrans" doesn't really apply. Serral is the best just because he is. His ZvT isn't the best in the world, but his others matchup are; Maru keeps dying to Protoss so it's not like he hasn't weaknesses. Serral wins every tournament, Maru doesn't. Serral didn't win the WESG were he lost to Maru. Thus you're lying about Serral winning every Tournament. Also Serral didn't won Katowice. Please stop lying, Serral really doesn't need such lies.
It's not like he WON every tournament, he WINS every tournament. I am not lying, lol! Serral was the top or top 3 foreigner until May, so probably like top 10 player in the world. THAT Serral was defeated the way you are saying; then he became GODral, started winning everything offline and he still is.
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On November 26 2018 08:18 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2018 08:05 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 08:03 Xain0n wrote:On November 26 2018 07:52 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 07:52 Poopi wrote:On November 26 2018 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 07:49 gTank wrote:
Fuck yeah Serral did it again!!! Cant wait for the korean fanboys make up excuses on how he still is not the best player atm. Well as we just saw he has issues against Terrans and the top terrans were not there(TY, Maru), so technically we don't know. Both Maru and TY are a level above Innovation(or at least they were from what we know). Even Gumiho is better than Inno in my eyes(though not that much of difference). And since Maru was winning Code S ... I think INno got better than Gumiho during BlizzCon period HOWEVER, Gumiho would be good at the uThermal style so depending on how viable it really is Gumiho might be better vZ Even if, both Maru and TY were level above Innovation if we go from the old data. So "now Serral is the best because he has beaten 2nd grade Korean Terrans" doesn't really apply. Serral is the best just because he is. His ZvT isn't the best in the world, but his others matchup are; Maru keeps dying to Protoss so it's not like he hasn't weaknesses. Serral wins every tournament, Maru doesn't. Serral didn't win the WESG were he lost to Maru. Thus you're lying about Serral winning every Tournament. Also Serral didn't won Katowice. Please stop lying, Serral really doesn't need such lies. It's not like he WON every tournament, he WINS every tournament. I am not lying, lol! Serral was the top or top 3 foreigner until May, so probably like top 10 player in the world. THAT Serral was defeated the way you are saying; then he became GODral, started winning everything offline and he still is.
Well I just gave you 2 examples where he didn't win. You didn't say "Serral won everything from May", you wrote Serral wins every tournament. Wasn't true, was it? 
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I love Serral, but remember how dominant were BW players before being called bonjwa.
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On November 26 2018 08:19 raff100 wrote:
I love Serral, but remember how dominant were BW players before being called bonjwa.
And that. I don't like Flash but thinking Serral has the same dominance as Flash, where they have to have balance BW around him!!! He's not there yet.
(at least from what I gathered, not following BW that much, but I believe they nerfed the maps to be less Terran-friendly)
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On November 26 2018 08:08 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2018 08:04 Kitai wrote:
I know it seems sacred on this site, but at what point do we get to start referring to Serral as the b-word? Maru winning 3 GSLs in a row apparently wasn't enough for bonjwa so Serral would need to win at least 4 GSLs in a row for that.
He had to win the weekenders and Blizzcon to be a Bonjwa. He instead failed horrendously to s0s!
If Serral doesn't play GSL you can't count him as losing them xd
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On November 26 2018 08:06 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2018 08:05 HariSeldon wrote:On November 26 2018 08:04 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 08:02 jalstar wrote:On November 26 2018 08:01 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 07:57 ChaosArcher wrote:On November 26 2018 07:52 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 07:52 Poopi wrote:On November 26 2018 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 07:49 gTank wrote:
Fuck yeah Serral did it again!!! Cant wait for the korean fanboys make up excuses on how he still is not the best player atm. Well as we just saw he has issues against Terrans and the top terrans were not there(TY, Maru), so technically we don't know. Both Maru and TY are a level above Innovation(or at least they were from what we know). Even Gumiho is better than Inno in my eyes(though not that much of difference). And since Maru was winning Code S ... I think INno got better than Gumiho during BlizzCon period HOWEVER, Gumiho would be good at the uThermal style so depending on how viable it really is Gumiho might be better vZ Even if, both Maru and TY were level above Innovation if we go from the old data. So "now Serral is the best because he has beaten 2nd grade Korean Terrans" doesn't really apply. Does Serral is the best, because he won 40 matches straight, 3 WCS, GSL vs the World, Blizzcon and the most stacked Homestory Cup in a long while, apply? Just ask yourself in all honesty: If Serral was Korean and Maru was a foreigner who bumped out before the finals in the two tournaments he had the chance to dethrone Serral, would you even have this discussion right now? If you're not winning Code S I won't pronounce you the best player. I refused to pronounce Taeja the same way during his reign and he was a star. Same applied to Parting who was killing weekenders but fell short in Code S. Same applied to soO and he was a consistency monster back then. We can continue this way. Until you win Code S who has more better players I won't admit you're the better player even if you don't avoid Koreans by staing in WCS(e.g. Polt, Taeja). I am in this thing unbiased and I value Code S higher than a weekender. And repeater, 3-times, Code S, says something. Serral is very good in weekend tournaments, probably currently the best. But he's avoiding Code S ATM thus I don't see him as the bestest everest  He will be playing code s, and imo if he wins it he is a Bonjwa Yeah, that would help, repeated win would cement it. Let's see what's ahead of us. If he wins every single gsl next year you'd make up another excuse about how the competition has really fallen off because of blizzard choking out korea. With serral's antifans there's always another excuse. Excuses all the way down. Why would I? Korea is still the hardest region, if he wins the Code S and continues in his great ride he's the best player. End of story.
I said you would make up some excuse as people have been doing every step of the way, something you did with the person you responded to, and now even in attempting to deny that you do it again; now not only would winning a gsl cement it, now he has to win multiple gsl and "continue his great ride", ie there's always more excuse-making possible... see you can't even stop yourself when you try not to, it's just an infinite regress of excuses and if you claim otherwise I simply don't believe you at this point.
ps I rooted for bunny come playoffs
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Ok who classified this HSC as only a Major tier tournament on Liquipedia?
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On November 26 2018 08:22 HariSeldon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2018 08:06 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 08:05 HariSeldon wrote:On November 26 2018 08:04 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 08:02 jalstar wrote:On November 26 2018 08:01 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 07:57 ChaosArcher wrote:On November 26 2018 07:52 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 07:52 Poopi wrote:On November 26 2018 07:50 deacon.frost wrote:[quote] Well as we just saw he has issues against Terrans and the top terrans were not there(TY, Maru), so technically we don't know. Both Maru and TY are a level above Innovation(or at least they were from what we know). Even Gumiho is better than Inno in my eyes(though not that much of difference). And since Maru was winning Code S ... I think INno got better than Gumiho during BlizzCon period HOWEVER, Gumiho would be good at the uThermal style so depending on how viable it really is Gumiho might be better vZ Even if, both Maru and TY were level above Innovation if we go from the old data. So "now Serral is the best because he has beaten 2nd grade Korean Terrans" doesn't really apply. Does Serral is the best, because he won 40 matches straight, 3 WCS, GSL vs the World, Blizzcon and the most stacked Homestory Cup in a long while, apply? Just ask yourself in all honesty: If Serral was Korean and Maru was a foreigner who bumped out before the finals in the two tournaments he had the chance to dethrone Serral, would you even have this discussion right now? If you're not winning Code S I won't pronounce you the best player. I refused to pronounce Taeja the same way during his reign and he was a star. Same applied to Parting who was killing weekenders but fell short in Code S. Same applied to soO and he was a consistency monster back then. We can continue this way. Until you win Code S who has more better players I won't admit you're the better player even if you don't avoid Koreans by staing in WCS(e.g. Polt, Taeja). I am in this thing unbiased and I value Code S higher than a weekender. And repeater, 3-times, Code S, says something. Serral is very good in weekend tournaments, probably currently the best. But he's avoiding Code S ATM thus I don't see him as the bestest everest He will be playing code s, and imo if he wins it he is a Bonjwa Yeah, that would help, repeated win would cement it. Let's see what's ahead of us. If he wins every single gsl next year you'd make up another excuse about how the competition has really fallen off because of blizzard choking out korea. With serral's antifans there's always another excuse. Excuses all the way down. Why would I? Korea is still the hardest region, if he wins the Code S and continues in his great ride he's the best player. End of story. I said you would make up some excuse as people have been doing every step of the way, something you did with the person you responded to, and now even in attempting to deny that you do it again; now not only would winning a gsl cement it, now he has to win multiple gsl and "continue his great ride", ie there's always more excuse-making possible... see you can't even stop yourself when you try not to, it's just an infinite regress of excuses and if you claim otherwise I simply don't believe you at this point.
Well maybe *they* would, but I wouldn't. I didn't like several players who became the best and I didn't protest against it. e.g. Innovation. On the other hand plenty of players I liked never became the best because they didn't deliver in Code S. e.g. Taeja.
Edit> Look dude, he has to win the Code S and don't lose in WCS(if he attends both). Repeated win of Code S would CEMENT it. I don't know if i'm using the right English expression, but in Czech this generally means, that the previous event WAS ENOUGH. So, do you understand me now?
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On November 26 2018 07:52 sneakyfox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2018 07:51 Weavel wrote:
This proves that Serral is best in all 3 matchups. So clutch. You really saw ZvT this weekend that was better than what Dark does?
Lately I don' t find Dark clean at all but hey you're one of the guys who expected dark 3-0 serral
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Serral is the final boss. Region lock now hurts the Koreans because they can't be considered the best if they don't beat Serral.
Not many opportunities for that with region lock.
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It just doent matter. Even if Serral went to Korea and won a GSL, it wouldnt matter. Even if he won 3 in a row it wouldnt matter. Even if he went back in time and Beat Life, MvP and Taeja it wouldnt matter. Even if he went further back and beat Flash, Jaedong and Savior back to back playing with his toes it wouldnt matter.
This discussion doesnt matter.
Long Live King Serral.
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On November 26 2018 08:25 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2018 08:22 HariSeldon wrote:On November 26 2018 08:06 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 08:05 HariSeldon wrote:On November 26 2018 08:04 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 08:02 jalstar wrote:On November 26 2018 08:01 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 07:57 ChaosArcher wrote:On November 26 2018 07:52 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 07:52 Poopi wrote:
[quote]
I think INno got better than Gumiho during BlizzCon period
HOWEVER, Gumiho would be good at the uThermal style so depending on how viable it really is Gumiho might be better vZ Even if, both Maru and TY were level above Innovation if we go from the old data. So "now Serral is the best because he has beaten 2nd grade Korean Terrans" doesn't really apply. Does Serral is the best, because he won 40 matches straight, 3 WCS, GSL vs the World, Blizzcon and the most stacked Homestory Cup in a long while, apply? Just ask yourself in all honesty: If Serral was Korean and Maru was a foreigner who bumped out before the finals in the two tournaments he had the chance to dethrone Serral, would you even have this discussion right now? If you're not winning Code S I won't pronounce you the best player. I refused to pronounce Taeja the same way during his reign and he was a star. Same applied to Parting who was killing weekenders but fell short in Code S. Same applied to soO and he was a consistency monster back then. We can continue this way. Until you win Code S who has more better players I won't admit you're the better player even if you don't avoid Koreans by staing in WCS(e.g. Polt, Taeja). I am in this thing unbiased and I value Code S higher than a weekender. And repeater, 3-times, Code S, says something. Serral is very good in weekend tournaments, probably currently the best. But he's avoiding Code S ATM thus I don't see him as the bestest everest He will be playing code s, and imo if he wins it he is a Bonjwa Yeah, that would help, repeated win would cement it. Let's see what's ahead of us. If he wins every single gsl next year you'd make up another excuse about how the competition has really fallen off because of blizzard choking out korea. With serral's antifans there's always another excuse. Excuses all the way down. Why would I? Korea is still the hardest region, if he wins the Code S and continues in his great ride he's the best player. End of story. I said you would make up some excuse as people have been doing every step of the way, something you did with the person you responded to, and now even in attempting to deny that you do it again; now not only would winning a gsl cement it, now he has to win multiple gsl and "continue his great ride", ie there's always more excuse-making possible... see you can't even stop yourself when you try not to, it's just an infinite regress of excuses and if you claim otherwise I simply don't believe you at this point. Well maybe *they* would, but I wouldn't. I didn't like several players who became the best and I didn't protest against it. e.g. Innovation. On the other hand plenty of players I liked never became the best because they didn't deliver in Code S. e.g. Taeja. Edit> Look dude, he has to win the Code S and don't lose in WCS(if he attends both). Repeated win of Code S would CEMENT it. I don't know if i'm using the right English expression, but in Czech this generally means, that the previous event WAS ENOUGH. So, do you understand me now?
in english saying something is cemented in this context means it's conclusive and not open to being reasonably attacked
if it isn't cemented then there would be a reasonable argument against it still
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On November 26 2018 08:19 raff100 wrote:
I love Serral, but remember how dominant were BW players before being called bonjwa.
Bonjwa's are a different caliber, but to be fair, SC2 is far more volatile with game breaking patches and more diverse maps.
I would say Maru and Serral both had two stupendous accomplishments ... 3 GSL's in a row for Maru and Serral winning 7 premiere tournaments including this 40 win lan streak. Serral is the more consistent player easliy. He joins the likes of the Broodwar Bonjwas in that he plays a different level of Starcraft. Being comfortable against Terran down bases is unheard of.
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On November 26 2018 08:27 BlazingGlory wrote:
It just doent matter. Even if Serral went to Korea and won a GSL, it wouldnt matter. Even if he won 3 in a row it wouldnt matter. Even if he went back in time and Beat Life, MvP and Taeja it wouldnt matter. Even if he went further back and beat Flash, Jaedong and Savior back to back playing with his toes it wouldnt matter.
This discussion doesnt matter.
Long Live King Serral.
god why does the player with the most annoying fanboys need to win so much.....
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On November 26 2018 08:27 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2018 08:25 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 08:22 HariSeldon wrote:On November 26 2018 08:06 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 08:05 HariSeldon wrote:On November 26 2018 08:04 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 08:02 jalstar wrote:On November 26 2018 08:01 deacon.frost wrote:On November 26 2018 07:57 ChaosArcher wrote:On November 26 2018 07:52 deacon.frost wrote:
[quote]
Even if, both Maru and TY were level above Innovation if we go from the old data. So "now Serral is the best because he has beaten 2nd grade Korean Terrans" doesn't really apply. Does Serral is the best, because he won 40 matches straight, 3 WCS, GSL vs the World, Blizzcon and the most stacked Homestory Cup in a long while, apply? Just ask yourself in all honesty: If Serral was Korean and Maru was a foreigner who bumped out before the finals in the two tournaments he had the chance to dethrone Serral, would you even have this discussion right now? If you're not winning Code S I won't pronounce you the best player. I refused to pronounce Taeja the same way during his reign and he was a star. Same applied to Parting who was killing weekenders but fell short in Code S. Same applied to soO and he was a consistency monster back then. We can continue this way. Until you win Code S who has more better players I won't admit you're the better player even if you don't avoid Koreans by staing in WCS(e.g. Polt, Taeja). I am in this thing unbiased and I value Code S higher than a weekender. And repeater, 3-times, Code S, says something. Serral is very good in weekend tournaments, probably currently the best. But he's avoiding Code S ATM thus I don't see him as the bestest everest He will be playing code s, and imo if he wins it he is a Bonjwa Yeah, that would help, repeated win would cement it. Let's see what's ahead of us. If he wins every single gsl next year you'd make up another excuse about how the competition has really fallen off because of blizzard choking out korea. With serral's antifans there's always another excuse. Excuses all the way down. Why would I? Korea is still the hardest region, if he wins the Code S and continues in his great ride he's the best player. End of story. I said you would make up some excuse as people have been doing every step of the way, something you did with the person you responded to, and now even in attempting to deny that you do it again; now not only would winning a gsl cement it, now he has to win multiple gsl and "continue his great ride", ie there's always more excuse-making possible... see you can't even stop yourself when you try not to, it's just an infinite regress of excuses and if you claim otherwise I simply don't believe you at this point. Well maybe *they* would, but I wouldn't. I didn't like several players who became the best and I didn't protest against it. e.g. Innovation. On the other hand plenty of players I liked never became the best because they didn't deliver in Code S. e.g. Taeja. Edit> Look dude, he has to win the Code S and don't lose in WCS(if he attends both). Repeated win of Code S would CEMENT it. I don't know if i'm using the right English expression, but in Czech this generally means, that the previous event WAS ENOUGH. So, do you understand me now? in english saying something is cemented in this context means it's conclusive and not open to being reasonably attacked if it isn't cemented then there would be a reasonable argument against it still
Oh, in that case I just meant the one victory would be enough in my eyes. Generally attend the Code S and still dominate.
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EPT
