On May 23 2017 22:01 SC2Toastie wrote: There's no debating with this guy, we all know, that's why nobody cares. He's the local village idiot. The boy who cries wolf. Over the past couple of years he has proven again and again to be absolutely unreasonable, and stuff like this only gets views and replies because it's so outrageous it's funny.
I mean, I still read it through completely and gave it a chance. But it's bad.
I don't see why people are hating this. Obviously Avilo has discussed these changes in depth with pro players, including koreans, as well as balance designers at Blizzard. It is clear from even a cursory look at the changes that all 3 races benefit in some way from this.Take Zerg for example, the Lurker den morph time was reduced to 43 sec from 86 sec. That's 100% faster than it currently is, for a unit that is core to most Zerg match-ups. Or look at Protoss if you will, Zealot Charge cost reduced to 100/100 from 200/200. This is especially useful in the current meta, where Protoss are heavily reliant on Zealots in the early to mid-game, shading them into the enemy base to get scouting done and perform some light harass. Really if you can't see the brilliance in these changes, then you're probably not as good as avilo at the game, or you're one of the maphackers that keeps sniping avilo on ladder.
Avilo never agreed to spend 100% of donations on this tournament. Not only that, he will still pay taxes on the donations even if he spends $500 on the tournament. Plus, he's not a charity. If people donate to him, he can do whatever he wants with the money. You guys are getting your jimmy's rustled over nothing.
I mean, as much as anyone may hate the Adept, if you want the patch to be taken seriously you need to get rid of that ridiculous Adept nerf. Protoss relies on the Adept and its harass potential to keep itself in the game.
When you look at Protoss all he's done is nerf stuff across the board EXCEPT charge - but he's also buffed all the answers to charge zealots in Lurkers and Hellbats.
I think we can agree that "balance" changes to Protoss should not simply involve blanket nerfs.
Global Changes: All mineral patches at every base on every map now start with 1500 minerals instead of half having 900.
...so which one is it?
On the adept's side - are you kidding? Instant 100 HP loss for a transfer? Not to mention nice and cushy way of nullifying their value with just a one ghost.
Setting those aside, wouldn't be funny if some uber-Toss would show up and presented some major kickassery on Ts?
On May 23 2017 22:26 DinoMight wrote: I mean, as much as anyone may hate the Adept, if you want the patch to be taken seriously you need to get rid of that ridiculous Adept nerf. Protoss relies on the Adept and its harass potential to keep itself in the game.
It's quite clear which units he doesn't like: adepts, swarm hosts. He basically said, "they're still technically in the game, though they're nerfed do hard you'd have to be insane to use them"
While removing some things like liberator range, that sees very minimal use as it is to show "see? Terran got nerfed, too"
This should be called the "ground-mech wet dream" tournament. Nerf every mech counter, buff ground mech, and in case you need more anti-air, BOOM - vikings produced from the factories with 3-3 built-in from the ground upgrades.
May I make some suggestions on balance changes in the same direction?
Zerg balance changes: Drones cannot be built any more. Protoss balance changes: Probes explode 5 seconds after being made. Terran balance changes: Barracks and starports can only make tanks
On May 23 2017 22:26 DinoMight wrote: I mean, as much as anyone may hate the Adept, if you want the patch to be taken seriously you need to get rid of that ridiculous Adept nerf. Protoss relies on the Adept and its harass potential to keep itself in the game.
It's quite clear which units he doesn't like: adepts, swarm hosts. He basically said, "they're still technically in the game, though they're nerfed do hard you'd have to be insane to use them"
While removing some things like liberator range, that sees very minimal use as it is to show "see? Terran got nerfed, too"
Yeah, I mean the silly thing is he's been at this for so long. Propose some kind of huge mech buff. Propose an equivalently huge nerf to mech counters. Throw in some tiny, irrelevant nerfs to random things so it seems "fair."
I love all these toss whiners justifying their cancer cheesy gimmicky gameplay by: Oh my I cant do anything else but spam adepts and do stupid cheesy stuff such as build proxy oracles and kill terrans with Pylon... WITH PYLON! :D This is just bullshit. Toss players got so used to abusing their stupid early game gimmicks that they just dont want to even try doing anything else. And I mean why should they if they can get their free wins with this kind of gameplay. They dont care that it riuns the game for everyone else... which is just sad.
If adepts and pylon got the much needed nerfs (compansated with nerf to Libs and reapers) and toss players actually tried to play the game they would find out its very much playable. This way ist just unfair, they not only have an economy advantage over any Terran but they have an infinite pool of early OP cheese. There is no mid/late game in TvP anymore, the matchup is ruined
P.S. I played toss, I am not biased against the race, I just think that the current state of the game ruined TvP matchup not only for the terran players, but for the viewers as well.
i listen in on Avilo's stream intermittently when i'm playing SC2 and i never heard him state the terms of the donations for Dreamhack... despite his claims otherwise. I did not listen to every second of every stream during the donation period.
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
I mean I'd pray to god he didnt blow 2.7k or w/e it was on this tournament... at least he is holding one, and if he holds more with the money he spent, hopefully there will at least be some with like... the actual current patch which i think everyone could get behind. at least he is doing something so far, regardless of how stupid the balance stuff is. it's his money and his tournament so :l
"his money" LOL. some would dispute that claiming the money was acquired under shady circumstances.
i recommend the OP state IN WRITING the precise terms of his donation soliciting when he is on his next "send me to an SC2 Event Fund Raiser". on some independent web site that he has no control over, with a date stamp on it that he again has zero control over.
by putting it in writing it avoids all this "well i said `this` and i said `that` and you were not listening" silliness.
if the OP puts nothing in writing for his next big fund raiser he needs to stop this "i'm being persecuted" crap. He is not being persecuted he is being sloppy and lazy.
the OP is fully responsible for the shitshow his last fund raiser turned into due to his lack of preparation. Had he put stuff in writing his claims would've been indisputable. instead it devolved into a giant finger-pointing exercise.
Can protoss hold reactor cyclone with these changes? Proxy rax-> reactor put factory onro reactor and make double cyclone float rax so pylons can't overcharge win game? Depending on how the pylon change is implemented you could probably just build a bunker next to it to stop overcharge
I never understood the reason for trying to remove pylon rushes from the game, they're the same as any other cheese in that they punish a greedy lack of scouting while leaving you behind if they fail
On May 23 2017 23:06 MarianoSC2 wrote: I love all these toss whiners justifying their cancer cheesy gimmicky gameplay by: Oh my I cant do anything else but spam adepts and do stupid cheesy stuff such as build proxy oracles and kill terrans with Pylon... WITH PYLON! :D This is just bullshit. Toss players got so used to abusing their stupid early game gimmicks that they just dont want to even try doing anything else. And I mean why should they if they can get their free wins with this kind of gameplay. They dont care that it riuns the game for everyone else... which is just sad.
If adepts and pylon got the much needed nerfs (compansated with nerf to Libs and reapers) and toss players actually tried to play the game they would find out its very much playable. This way ist just unfair, they not only have an economy advantage over any Terran but they have an infinite pool of early OP cheese. There is no mid/late game in TvP anymore, the matchup is ruined
P.S. I played toss, I am not biased against the race, I just think that the current state of the game ruined TvP matchup not only for the terran players, but for the viewers as well.
On May 23 2017 22:19 XenoX101 wrote: I don't see why people are hating this. Obviously Avilo has discussed these changes in depth with pro players, including koreans, as well as balance designers at Blizzard. It is clear from even a cursory look at the changes that all 3 races benefit in some way from this.Take Zerg for example, the Lurker den morph time was reduced to 43 sec from 86 sec. That's 100% faster than it currently is, for a unit that is core to most Zerg match-ups. Or look at Protoss if you will, Zealot Charge cost reduced to 100/100 from 200/200. This is especially useful in the current meta, where Protoss are heavily reliant on Zealots in the early to mid-game, shading them into the enemy base to get scouting done and perform some light harass. Really if you can't see the brilliance in these changes, then you're probably not as good as avilo at the game, or you're one of the maphackers that keeps sniping avilo on ladder.
The only person avilo talked to get those changes was avilo.
On May 23 2017 23:06 MarianoSC2 wrote: They dont care that it riuns the game for everyone else... which is just sad.
ya, these Protoss players are just pure evil. i know a couple of them.. they are horrible human beings. i was thinking of contacting the UN to find out if they're violating the geneva convention.
c'mon man.. get real. a fun win for 1 player can be a very frustrating loss for another player. Like all other 1v1 games.. SC2 is a zero-sum game.
I like few changes a lot. But looking at the rest I can't stop thinking that it's the case of "Even a broken clock is right twice a day". But if it happens to be not that case and Avilo sees those problems even with all his bias blinding him. Then props to him and the joke is on Blizzard.
Some of these balance changes are awful. I don't even know where to begin. When I got to the Swarm Host and BroodLord part I just stopped reading. While it's nice to see these balance changes, there are way too many changes where you wouldn't know what change actually makes the game better and what made it worse.
On May 23 2017 22:19 XenoX101 wrote: I don't see why people are hating this. Obviously Avilo has discussed these changes in depth with pro players, including koreans, as well as balance designers at Blizzard. It is clear from even a cursory look at the changes that all 3 races benefit in some way from this.Take Zerg for example, the Lurker den morph time was reduced to 43 sec from 86 sec. That's 100% faster than it currently is, for a unit that is core to most Zerg match-ups. Or look at Protoss if you will, Zealot Charge cost reduced to 100/100 from 200/200. This is especially useful in the current meta, where Protoss are heavily reliant on Zealots in the early to mid-game, shading them into the enemy base to get scouting done and perform some light harass. Really if you can't see the brilliance in these changes, then you're probably not as good as avilo at the game, or you're one of the maphackers that keeps sniping avilo on ladder.
The only person avilo talked to get those changes was avilo.
EPT
