On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
I've seen worse from Blizzard, people actually payed to make this game the best they possibly can. Pro liquid player clicked on this thread just to flame. He never said these should all be in the game and even said he didn't even think about the protoss changes.
REAL CLASS ACT FROM TL PRO PLAYERS.
Never liked avilo, but he is doing something for the community here. No reason to bring that BS in here. Just losing fans who support you and the organization you are a part of. Just sad TLO....
Well, they are horrible, horrible balance changes, you even indicate yourself that he didn't even properly think about 1/3rd of the races involved.
And the remark at the money committed has more to do with keeping Avilo transperant and honest than anything.
I don't see how you starting a random witchhunt is any better. All TLO did is A) call the changes bad (which 99% of the community wil lagree with) and B) asking him where the rest of the money went.
On May 23 2017 19:48 Ouija wrote: I've seen worse from Blizzard, people actually payed to make this game the best they possibly can. Pro liquid player clicked on this thread just to flame. He never said these should all be in the game and even said he didn't even think about the protoss changes.
REAL CLASS ACT FROM TL PRO PLAYERS.
Never liked avilo, but he is doing something for the community here. No reason to bring that BS in here. Just losing fans who support you and the organization you are a part of. Just sad TLO....
Criticizing the balance changes and the prizepool isn't flaming. Flaming is when you attack the person directly. For example if someone were to say Avilo is a IRL troll who blindly accuses everyone of hacking instead of trying to get better at the game he has made his career of off, that would be flaming.
However, I can respect the effort. I don't agree with the changes, but we'll see how it turns out. Some might be great ideas, others not. Unfortunately they won't make a statement or cause someone to think about balance, since the changes are all over the place . But it will be interesting. I just have to mute the stream, because I can not watch Avilo for more than a minute (nothing personal, some people just have annoying voices).
At least he is doing something. All these EU zerg and toss Pro players are content with the pathetic work of the SC2 balance team because the current game state suits their races which is understandable cause they have a chance to make more money. That does not mean however that someone who actually is trying to improve the game has to be bashed at every opportunity. I am not an Avilo fan but big thumbs up for this and for all the hard work behind this tourney and the balance mod SC2 could use more poeple like him. If he only had better manners and personality, right? Looking forward to this!
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
On May 23 2017 20:07 MarianoSC2 wrote: At least he is doing something. All these EU zerg and toss Pro players are content with the pathetic work of the SC2 balance team because the current game state suits their races which is understandable cause they have a chance to make more money. That does not mean however that someone who actually is trying to improve the game has to be bashed at every opportunity. I am not an Avilo fan but big thumbs up for this and for all the hard work behind this tourney and the balance mod SC2 could use more poeple like him. If he only had better manners and personality, right? Looking forward to this!
I honestly have to say that I have great concerns for his mental capabilities if "hard work" went into these changes.
On May 23 2017 19:09 Buffbefehl wrote: Nice tournament, thank you for saving Esports, avilo. Can you do another one with a 200$ prize pool after you raise 3000$ for going to DH Valencia?
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
came here for some giggles, wont leave disappointed :D thanks avilo aviDoge aviFtoss
Lol, totally agree with TLO worst patch ever. Especially adepts such a joke. Well I think the esier way to do that was to oblidge every player who plays P/Z and bio T to play with 50% health lol.
As much as I don't believe one second to this balance (some change may sound decent individually but as a whole it's terrible) I strongly encourage this project. For too long people have been shitting on Blizzard and D Kim's work, like it they were so much smarter than them, but never do anything to bring any consistent proof of what they say.
So go for it, have your balance mod tournament and show the world your true wit.
Don't forget to also grace us with these wonderful maps you do on MS paint...
Haha, nice to see that Avilo is still living the dream. This- what i read above...It's so disgustingly one sided and suited for one player that is Avilo himself. Hey- lets make Zerg and Protoss useless and nerf something irrelevant for Terran just to say " every race got their nerfs". This is so "Avilo" and i think that suits for review of this changes. Good luck with your tournament Avilo. Don't forget to ban from it every player above diamond league just in case. There's always risk that somebody else wins that haha. But to be honest u made my day with this post. Thank You at least for that.
just because he's Avilo people don't even care the fact that this balance mod is good
and because all people get really bad balance patch but favor themselves like zerg free buff and protoss just make adepts army then get advantage from spamming 1 unit that have free ability massable and can rekt your worker line in 5 seconds
please ask yourself again is that call balance? just because it make u get advantage that u shouldn't have?
all the reason that u people say its worst mod he already put it on the post but looks like everyone that being BS just never gonna read it when it comes to nerfing their free advantage
so community just wanna see the game with mass queen ling bane defend everything then get hive tech and auto win and mass adepts 80-90% army or mass air unit win everything rather than seeing many strategies that viable to be chosen to play with ground unit and positioning just like starcraft was
u can play the same style that doesn't require that much effort to win your opponent on the current patch but in this mod it make people to put effort in the same amout to play which represent fair gameplay that doesn't exist in the SC2 current state right now
and Avilo already post it(but as usual BS people not gonna read it) this mod encourage u to play the style that take more skills to play with ground units. u can play the same style that u did but its not gonna be effective as it is and give u free advantage by doing something that require low effort, u can mass air still but its not gonna be effective because the player that make ground unit will have more unit than u.
so before u gonna be negative about something that gonna rip your free advantage that u shouldn't have out or because he is "Avilo" . go play the mod first and figure out how to play it (i'll guide u it just like playing BW)
and about his money Avilo raise for DH that he didn't reach
he set 45 days with 3.5k goal which he set his daily donation goal for 100 bucks and that's his income being full-time streamer to pay rent,food etc., to survive every month. someday he reach the daily goal someday he didn't. just 200 subs on twitch isn't enough to pay rent and food just let guys know(cause seems like some people think he can Photosynthesis to survive). and he didn't reach the goal he get 2.4k donation which it just a bit more than normally he would get per month and he did what he said he'll if he didn't reach the goal which is organize this tournament.
Sad for Liquid that one of their Pro just being Bias. if u gonna be real TLO then make a debate with Avilo and don't forget to play the mod
ps. I'm not Westerner my English is bad sorry for that and yes i'm Avilo's fan it's not a shame to be his fan just because people don't like him when they don't even know his real personalities and don't even try to listen to what he said even tho he's the only one who talk about balance without being blizzard shill, get paycheck from blizzard or don't want their race to be nerfed
Considering that a lot of the community has some... interesting feelings about you, I'm not that unhappy with these changes. All in all, I think that you didn't make it too bad. I like your idea of air being a more tactical tool, rather than being "mass it and everything dies". Although some thoughts:
I think mid-game ZvT would work out alright. Early-game is now better for Zerg, with the removal of reaper grenades (which I love). Also, some of the gimmicks with early-game Ravens and Liberators are now less cancer. Rushing to Liberator Range upgrade and sitting behind mineral lines is so annoying. Mid-game is now not more imbalanced, just different, meaning we'd just have to see it pan out. The cost changes make Zerg more swarmy, what with being to remax more cheaply. However, there is an issue that's already difficult for Zerg: late-game. Late-game Zerg could be at a disadvantage: 200/200 on both sides has always been a disadvantage for Zerg, and now Swarm Hosts and Brood Lords take more supply, and Hydras are less supply efficient. In contrast, mech play will be, again, different. I feel that there were changes made that really just need to be tested for mech, but fact remains late-game Zerg is weaker. I think leaving out the Nydus changes would be good: allowing the Zerg to get around the Terran more easily. Also, I get the lair requirement for Drop Overlord, but Speed Overlord? I think that's a bad decision. Zerg, especially now, relies on speed Overlord to get scouting. Without the upgrade, Zerg will have a hard time finding out what's going on in the early-game.
Now to Protoss: I don't think these are too good. The problem with Photon Overcharge was not that it was too strong/weak, but it was the only early-game defense the Protoss had. Add to that that Photon Overcharge isn't fun in general, and Protoss all-in defense is all based on a boring and cheap defense. If you remove that, you may have removed the weird defense, but Protoss will have NOTHING against an early-game all-in. You nerfed the Adept, and the charge isn't going to come into play at this stage of the game. You need to improve some aspect of the Protoss early-game. If you buff Photon Cannons, Cannon Rushes will be even more cancer than they already are. So that's not really an option unless you give it weird damage rules (maybe change worker armor tags, then bonus damage to light? Dunno). Protoss has been complaining about crappy gateway for a while, maybe this is the chance to deliver. Also, wtf is Protoss supposed to do vs. bio now? Their AOE was already either a spell or bad, and in the mid-game they relied on Adept shade. Now that you removed their shields (which you decreased in exchange for health, still 30 effective HP) on shade end, Their mid-game options are few and far between. (This is TvP)
for ZvP: I think there are more problems for toss now again. The main enemy of Zerg in ZvP has been Carrier for a while now, resulting in a situation of "kill them before they get there", which noone found fun. Now that doesn't exist anymore, you may have removed cancer, but in doing so sort of murdered a few aspects: Lurkers are cheaper, Hydras are cheaper. If you go Ling/Hydra/Lurker/Bane as Zerg with this patch, I have doubts as to whether or not Protoss will be able to do anything. Weaker Adepts will hurt against lings, Zealot charge will do jack shit against lurkers (as long as they're positioned properly). Granted you could argue that Disruptors/Adept/Spellcaser could kill it, but that just adds another button to press (and Disruptors aren't very consistent. If you'd miss you Disruptor shots, you'd be pretty much dead) High Templar? Nope, Banelings are there to kill it.
All in all, even though I think that these balance changes are made with good intent, one does not simply change balance and expect everything to go well. There are very many consequences to consider, especially with making radical changes. Maybe put some more thought into the changes and realize all the consequences that happen because of it. No doubt I have missed a few, I am only diamond league.
There's no debating with this guy, we all know, that's why nobody cares. He's the local village idiot. The boy who cries wolf. Over the past couple of years he has proven again and again to be absolutely unreasonable, and stuff like this only gets views and replies because it's so outrageous it's funny.
EPT
