On May 28 2017 08:44 I wasbanned fromthis wrote: Claiming the mod is not broken on the first day is a bit of an exaggeration. Like you said, it needs a larger sample size, otherwise using a hyperbole is not an accurate way of delineating day 1.
The review of the balance is hard when your focus jumps around from topic to chat to comedy... which is fine for casting your own things, but as a viewer, we dont need your embellishments to discern for ourselves the value of the end product.
for what its worth, GJ.
Well, it really was not like everyone and their mother said. 99% of the games were standard, and i did not even see a single viking produced from a factory lol.
I will agree with you though about Protoss like i mentioned earlier. To me, this tourney kind of shows off the fact that Protoss seems to be
a) crippled/handicapped without the adept aka the adept is too strong to the point the entire race balance depends on it b) protoss players are so used to the crutch of making 90% adepts that they did not adapt at all to the changes.
Protoss always uses mass adepts in every army and doesn't know how to play without them? whatever.. let Classic know,.. he isn't getting the message.
as far as this tournament "proving" anything... #1. not enough different levels of players #2.
i don't watch a lot of SC2 and i already know this "its always adepts" is total bullshit. like i said Classic is my counter example... i'm sure guys who watch a lot more Sc2 than i do can come up with lots of other examples.
On May 28 2017 15:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Protoss always uses mass adepts in every army and doesn't know how to play without them? whatever.. let Classic know,.. he isn't getting the message.
i don't watch a lot of SC2 and i already know this "its always adepts" is total bullshit. like i said Classic is my counter example... i'm sure guys who watch a lot more Sc2 than i do can come up with lots of other examples.
The adept seems a MOBA unit and already ruined many pro and amateur tournaments massing that single unit alone.
On May 26 2017 21:54 [ARM]Hybrid wrote: TBH, i see a lot of haters, who don't know what they are talking about. Donation - streamer gets money from viewers,(cuz they want to support) and can spend that how the fk he wants. Avilo never says, that if he gets like 3K from 3.5K, he will contribute all that 3K into tournament.... So i dont get it, when some retards and even other top streamer cant understand that. If you right guys, you can blame anyone for not contributing money into this or another game, so be nice, be constructive, u are talking about how Avilo is toxic, but u all toxic as fk. Adept nerf not like you? thats fine, u can do advice, or counter offer. not just "Thats retarded, i dont like it, fu ck this" that not make any sense for me.... Good job Avilo, He spent money from hes earnings for making something good for SC2. Be constructive.. P.S TLO you are a little nerd, jealous person that couldn't make any success in pro level, didnt won any major tournament, and now blaming other streamer for having more viewers, more subs and more $$$.. deal with it. P.S 2 Sorry for bad English, im not from English speaking country! OK?
TLO rank : 42 world. Avilo rank : 300 world.
You may be a huge fan of avilo, but you can't tell us Avilo has more sucess than TLO :
TLO is better than Avilo, it's a fact.
TLO is better than Avilo in what shape? like what are you comparing now? I was talking about stream, and YES, its FACT, that AVILO have more viewership,more subs, and more income,ITS FACT DUDE, you need to deal with that.in twitch Avilo has more sucess than TLO. i mean TLO rank 42? so what? he is pro player? i dont care, he post toxic and negative shit here. And hes not right, people talkin about Avilo's money like they have give it to him
A reality tv star has more sucess than a nobel price, that doesn't change the fact the nobel price's words are more relevant when we talk about science than what a reality tv star can say about science.
It's the same difference between a streamer of SC2 and a SC2 progamer.
I agree... TLO is better at the game, Avilo is better at twitch..can we just move on....
The fact is, this $800 prizepool tourney for SC2 is happening today, Saturday 2 p.m. EST. It's the first of it's kind in the history of SC2 no tournament has been done like this. It will be really interesting and hopefully be good for the community to spur discussion and hopefully light a fire under Blizzard too that they can be doing more impactful changes.
I'm hoping to be able to collect up all of the replays after the tourney, and discuss the games, cast the games that i didn't get to cast, and talk about what changes worked, what didn't, and then offer all of the feedback to Blizzard so hopefully they can do more for SC2.
I am thinking long term with starting this initiative, and there's potential for follow-up tournaments as well.
I am impressed with the long term plans on reviving this game. Respect.
On May 28 2017 15:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i don't watch a lot of SC2 and i already know this "its always adepts" is total bullshit. like i said Classic is my counter example... i'm sure guys who watch a lot more Sc2 than i do can come up with lots of other examples.
Sadly I must bring your hopes down. I watch really a lot of SC2 and most protoss rely heavily on adepts. Meta is just starting to change a little, but that is just recently. Before Classic was just another adepttoss.
On May 27 2017 21:52 Justinian wrote: People love to see things in black and white, but there's nothing clear cut about this. His promises were vague and weren't put in writing so it's all a grey area.
[...]
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I'd say he's done about the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest.
I think that this is a pretty reasonable post.. I've given this drama some thought. I tune into avilo's stream whenever he's on and I'm on the comp or taking a satisfying defecation, Anyways, with that being said, "the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest" is quite fair.
No, it is not fair to say Avilo did the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest. Stream goals are not met all the time and never ever before was the money returned upon a streaming goal not met. The PayPal costs for this would flat out ruin smaller streamers within a week. Many streamers have a daily, weekly or monthly subscription goal and these are regularly not met. No money is ever returned in such cases. Especially Avilo has a daily subscription goal of $100, which isn't met regularly. Avilo switched his daily subscription goal to a 30 day subscription goal with the promise of going to DH if the goal was met. Avilo's 30 day subscription goal was $500 higher than his usual accumulated subscription goals for that time period.
How people suddenly imply there now would be a money return policy is beyond reason. It is totally arbitrary. The goal was never unreasonably high either, because it has to compensate for his usual donation goals that were replaced by the 30 day DH goal.
I don't see why he hasn't been able to make this point for himself. Maybe he didn't want to reveal his calculations, because it would tell too much about his actual usual income, which includes donations.
This is unbelievably ridiculous and immature from all sides, including TL(O). There has never been a money return policy on donations. They are donations, after all. Of course the donations belong to the receiver once given. We are talking about donations, not stocks or other types of shares or investments that give any form of entitlement. There haven't been any other promises nor practices.
On May 27 2017 21:52 Justinian wrote: People love to see things in black and white, but there's nothing clear cut about this. His promises were vague and weren't put in writing so it's all a grey area.
[...]
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I'd say he's done about the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest.
I think that this is a pretty reasonable post.. I've given this drama some thought. I tune into avilo's stream whenever he's on and I'm on the comp or taking a satisfying defecation, Anyways, with that being said, "the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest" is quite fair.
No, it is not fair to say Avilo did the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest. Stream goals are not met all the time and never ever before was the money returned upon a streaming goal not met. The PayPal costs for this would flat out ruin smaller streamers within a week. Many streamers have a daily, weekly or monthly subscription goal and these are regularly not met. No money is ever returned in such cases. Especially Avilo has a daily subscription goal of $100, which isn't met regularly. Avilo switched his daily subscription goal to a 30 day subscription goal with the promise of going to DH if the goal was met. Avilo's 30 day subscription goal was $500 higher than his usual accumulated subscription goals for that time period.
How people suddenly imply there now would be a money return policy is beyond reason. It is totally arbitrary. The goal was never unreasonably high either, because it has to compensate for his usual donation goals that were replaced by the 30 day DH goal.
I don't see why he hasn't been able to make this point for himself. Maybe he didn't want to reveal his calculations, because it would tell too much about his actual usual income, which includes donations.
This is unbelievably ridiculous and immature from all sides, including TL(O). There has never been a money return policy on donations. They are donations, after all. Of course the donations belong to the receiver once given. We are talking about donations, not stocks or other types of shares or investments that give any form of entitlement. There haven't been any other promises nor practices.
No one ever implied he should give the money back. But to say those saying he's not done "the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest" are wrong is being deliberately ignorant.
For instance ROOTFayth did in the entire thread asking "Is Avilo a Scammer?" said he should give the money back or go to DH. And that is just the first occurrence in that thread.
On May 28 2017 21:20 showstealer1829 wrote: But to say those saying he's not done "the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest" are wrong is being deliberately ignorant.
How so? There was never anything wrong with what he did with his donations and he never went back on any promise. All that was said goes back to people supposedly feeling cheated b/c they didn't get their money back after the donation goal was not met. As said before, those claims are unprecedented, unreasonable and totally arbitrary. Consequently are all voiced suspicions about his honesty, when it comes to promises, goals and donations.
This is not about ignorance. Build cases against him and/or hate him for everything he has been doing and will be doing, I don't mind. But as far as his donations and DH goals are concerned, he didn't scam anybody, he never lied, went back on promises or did anything else remotely out of the ordinary.
Avilo calls everyone with different ideas stupid and dumb. He calls everyone who beats him a hacker or a stream sniper. Why should the community treat him better?
Maybe not everyone was watching when he said he wouldn't fly to dreamhack if he doesn't reach the goal. But how much does a flight and a few days cost? Isn't 3000 dollar enough? I am sure he could have found a solution if he wanted. He could take a room together with other players. There are always people willing to help in the community.
At this point i believe that it was a scam. He didn't attend WCS Austin either, I am convinced that he will never attend a bigger tournament, no matter what he says.
At last i still believe he is good for the community. Look at us we have something to talk. I just wished that we would talk about something relevant.
On May 29 2017 00:35 todespolka wrote: Avilo calls everyone with different ideas stupid and dumb. He calls everyone who beats him a hacker or a stream sniper. Why should the community treat him better?
Maybe not everyone was watching when he said he wouldn't fly to dreamhack if he doesn't reach the goal. But how much does a flight and a few days cost? Isn't 3000 dollar enough? I am sure he could have found a solution if he wanted. He could take a room together with other players. There are always people willing to help in the community.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Public executions welcome. I'm all for that. Call him stuff, stupid, a hacker and stream cheater. Question his reasoning for setting the stream goal to $3500. Talk about his stream persona and in game behavior and skill all you want, but he never even remotely came close to scamming anybody for anything. He was open about everything he ever did from the beginning.
On May 29 2017 00:35 todespolka wrote: Avilo calls everyone with different ideas stupid and dumb. He calls everyone who beats him a hacker or a stream sniper. Why should the community treat him better?
Maybe not everyone was watching when he said he wouldn't fly to dreamhack if he doesn't reach the goal. But how much does a flight and a few days cost? Isn't 3000 dollar enough? I am sure he could have found a solution if he wanted. He could take a room together with other players. There are always people willing to help in the community.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Public executions welcome. I'm all for that. Call him stuff, stupid, a hacker and stream cheater. Question his reasoning for setting the stream goal to $3500. Talk about his stream persona and in game behavior and skill all you want, but he never even remotely came close to scamming anybody for anything. He was open about everything he ever did from the beginning.
If by "Open from the beginning" you mean "Openly lying to people" then yes he was open from the beginning.
But hey if you want to believe the con man then who am I to stop you?
On May 27 2017 21:52 Justinian wrote: People love to see things in black and white, but there's nothing clear cut about this. His promises were vague and weren't put in writing so it's all a grey area.
[...]
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I'd say he's done about the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest.
I think that this is a pretty reasonable post.. I've given this drama some thought. I tune into avilo's stream whenever he's on and I'm on the comp or taking a satisfying defecation, Anyways, with that being said, "the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest" is quite fair.
No, it is not fair to say Avilo did the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest. Stream goals are not met all the time and never ever before was the money returned upon a streaming goal not met. The PayPal costs for this would flat out ruin smaller streamers within a week. Many streamers have a daily, weekly or monthly subscription goal and these are regularly not met. No money is ever returned in such cases. Especially Avilo has a daily subscription goal of $100, which isn't met regularly. Avilo switched his daily subscription goal to a 30 day subscription goal with the promise of going to DH if the goal was met. Avilo's 30 day subscription goal was $500 higher than his usual accumulated subscription goals for that time period.
How people suddenly imply there now would be a money return policy is beyond reason. It is totally arbitrary. The goal was never unreasonably high either, because it has to compensate for his usual donation goals that were replaced by the 30 day DH goal.
I don't see why he hasn't been able to make this point for himself. Maybe he didn't want to reveal his calculations, because it would tell too much about his actual usual income, which includes donations.
This is unbelievably ridiculous and immature from all sides, including TL(O). There has never been a money return policy on donations. They are donations, after all. Of course the donations belong to the receiver once given. We are talking about donations, not stocks or other types of shares or investments that give any form of entitlement. There haven't been any other promises nor practices.
Thanks for posting that. I've said that many times, in many videos, and in many posts here on TL. A few people that personally do not like my stream or me decided a few weeks ago they wanted to go on a slander campaign to attack my streaming income, and then a bunch of known figures decided they wanted to jump on the bandwagon as well to start promoting people to attack me.
Many of those were people that just are anonymous that just saw an opportunity to try to create bad PR for me and it really didn't work. If anything, as usual, they just became advertising tools for me because 99% of the people with common sense in the community know i'm genuinely trying to do something positive for our community.
Anyways, about to cast the semis/3rd place/finals which are all bo5, and finals bo7...lots of games about to come up :D
On May 28 2017 07:34 avilo wrote: So thoughts after day 1:
Zero vikings were built from factories. Most games were standard games. The hydra/lurker changes saw some play, did not break the game at all. The mech changes have virtually zero impact on bio play considering the players that went bio all played standard and have no use for factories besides tanks/mines.
And Protoss in general was under represented mostly due to sign ups. Despite a lot of people signing up, they didn't show up today xD Protoss also seems to be a race that is purely dependent on adepts to be balanced right now from the games that i casted...but also most P forgot how to play the game when not making mass adepts as their entire army.
It was really interesting to see. The only worrisome thing was that i made photon overcharge 75 energy but the MSC still starts at 50. I should have made it start with enough energy for one overcharge.
Aside from that, there was only one mech game played that i saw so far...and the viking change was completely irrelevant because the game ended before mid/late game. But that again, was intended by design. Allowing vikings to be producible from factories is meant for mid/late game to help counter air transitions.
Overall, i think what i can take and what other people can take from the first day...everyone here on TL and reddit, and elsewhere...massively over-reacts to changes that they assumed would imbalance the game solely based off of my personality as a streamer rather than respecting the effort i put in designing the changes to have impact while not breaking the game at all.
If people honestly thought the changes i made were massive in size...then the fact they barely impacted the first day of this tournament should be evidence enough that Blizzard can be doing more than they currently are for SC2 multiplayer. People were in hysteria at some of the things i proposed and tested today - and they showed to not break the game at all or even come into play in many games.
If my changes are classified as "OMGHUGEwill break the game!" then what in the hell do we classify Blizzard -1 adept damage as?
It's evidence that bigger changes can be made without breaking "perfect balance." And again, it's huge evidence for all players that love Protoss out there - the re-work or re-tuning of Protoss that you all massively desire is really quite necessary because there is no Protoss race atm. Protoss = adepts.
Even with 1000s of high-level games and dedicated progamers, some imbalances take months to find and practice, and eventually test vs. refined counterplay.
This tournament will not say much, especially since just playing what you know is generally stronger short term. I remember how some players just ignored the new units when Hearth of the Swarm came out, and still did pretty well!
On May 29 2017 00:35 todespolka wrote: Avilo calls everyone with different ideas stupid and dumb. He calls everyone who beats him a hacker or a stream sniper. Why should the community treat him better?
Maybe not everyone was watching when he said he wouldn't fly to dreamhack if he doesn't reach the goal. But how much does a flight and a few days cost? Isn't 3000 dollar enough? I am sure he could have found a solution if he wanted. He could take a room together with other players. There are always people willing to help in the community.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Public executions welcome. I'm all for that. Call him stuff, stupid, a hacker and stream cheater. Question his reasoning for setting the stream goal to $3500. Talk about his stream persona and in game behavior and skill all you want, but he never even remotely came close to scamming anybody for anything. He was open about everything he ever did from the beginning.
If by "Open from the beginning" you mean "Openly lying to people" then yes he was open from the beginning.
But hey if you want to believe the con man then who am I to stop you?
Look guys, you are accuseing with no evidance. what you mean saying "Openly lying to people"? like WTF? can you bring one example?
Its only your oppinon, that he could go to Austin if he wants to. its your oppinion, fine, keep it to you, dont accuse. read post in the top, about donation goals and e.t.c.... you guys just want to throw shit on Avilos. thats all, you can always find a few reasons for that. Good job i guess. will you go furher ? i dont think so. Be happy that someone putting his own money, for this game... shame on you guys, i think the most of this haters not more than 8 years old..
On May 28 2017 07:34 avilo wrote: So thoughts after day 1:
Zero vikings were built from factories. Most games were standard games. The hydra/lurker changes saw some play, did not break the game at all. The mech changes have virtually zero impact on bio play considering the players that went bio all played standard and have no use for factories besides tanks/mines.
And Protoss in general was under represented mostly due to sign ups. Despite a lot of people signing up, they didn't show up today xD Protoss also seems to be a race that is purely dependent on adepts to be balanced right now from the games that i casted...but also most P forgot how to play the game when not making mass adepts as their entire army.
It was really interesting to see. The only worrisome thing was that i made photon overcharge 75 energy but the MSC still starts at 50. I should have made it start with enough energy for one overcharge.
Aside from that, there was only one mech game played that i saw so far...and the viking change was completely irrelevant because the game ended before mid/late game. But that again, was intended by design. Allowing vikings to be producible from factories is meant for mid/late game to help counter air transitions.
Overall, i think what i can take and what other people can take from the first day...everyone here on TL and reddit, and elsewhere...massively over-reacts to changes that they assumed would imbalance the game solely based off of my personality as a streamer rather than respecting the effort i put in designing the changes to have impact while not breaking the game at all.
If people honestly thought the changes i made were massive in size...then the fact they barely impacted the first day of this tournament should be evidence enough that Blizzard can be doing more than they currently are for SC2 multiplayer. People were in hysteria at some of the things i proposed and tested today - and they showed to not break the game at all or even come into play in many games.
If my changes are classified as "OMGHUGEwill break the game!" then what in the hell do we classify Blizzard -1 adept damage as?
It's evidence that bigger changes can be made without breaking "perfect balance." And again, it's huge evidence for all players that love Protoss out there - the re-work or re-tuning of Protoss that you all massively desire is really quite necessary because there is no Protoss race atm. Protoss = adepts.
Even with 1000s of high-level games and dedicated progamers, some imbalances take months to find and practice, and eventually test vs. refined counterplay.
This tournament will not say much, especially since just playing what you know is generally stronger short term. I remember how some players just ignored the new units when Hearth of the Swarm came out, and still did pretty well!
Not only that, but this tournament didn't really have the highest level of play. Bly was probably one of the highest ranked players here. You're not going to find that big imbalance until the highest foreign level, like if you had Neeb/Showtime/Nerchio/uThermal/Snute playing, then maybe you could speak about balance.
But as it is, there's too small a sample size and too few top tier players to really say that the game is not hugely changed.
Besides, how many high level meching Terrans played in this tournament?
I'd imagine that the imbalances would be even bigger if the top Koreans played this mod.
EDIT: also, with regards to the money,
I see it this way: avilo needs 3500 to go, and he gets 3000 He says he will offer a tournament with some of the money that he would have used to go to Austin
Therefore the tournament prize pool should be equal to money raised (3000) - (whatever minor costs me might incur from doing tournament), but it still means the tournament should have a prize pool of at least 1000-2000 dollars.
It is originally at 500 because avilo needs to cover living exactly expenses.
The problem with this argument is what would have happened if he had raised the money to go? He would have had to forego paying his living expenses assuming most of the money raised was toward Austin (minus some that he might keep).
Thus, his argument that the prize pool is so small because of his living expenses is irrelevant because he would have lost that money anyways going to Austin.
It can only be surmised that
1. either he was not planning on going to Austin at all, 2. he greatly misinterpreted the amount needed to go and to pay his living expenses, 3. or he is making excuses as to why he could not provide a bigger prize pool.
EPT
