|
On May 27 2017 15:43 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 13:27 showstealer1829 wrote:On May 27 2017 04:33 Suchbalancemuchwow wrote:
Lets just stop flaming people from both sides, and act like adults? Please? Toxic can only be avoided by not actually acknowledging it.
Can we just watch both of their tournaments and enjoy something that isn't adeptcraft or mass air battles? Both TLO and Avilo are doing good stuff for the game at the moment. These tournaments will show us and the dev team once and for all if SC2 is currently well designed or not. If it isn't, then we might get a better game out of it at the end of the day.
Ontopic
Avilo, Why didn't you just remove the swarmhost and adept shade entirely. TLO's change that makes infested terrans good units again is in my opinion the perfect replacement of the swarm host, with that in the game the swarmhost is obsolete. There is furthermore no actual reason why the adept should be a beefy unit with high dps, and high mobility. No other unit is these 3 things. (Well, I guess an argument can be made for the marauder)
I have only praise for tackling the offensive pylon overcharge though, that stuff is ridiculous. As for the defensive one costing 75 energy. Well, it'd be nice of the mothership core started with that much energy atleast. Protoss really does have problems holding off cheese without pylon overcharge.
TLO is doing good stuff for the game Avilo is just continuing his conman act. Ok, this is has gone far enough, i'm hoping TL will actually help moderate this cesspool of absolute fucking horseshit that is below TL.net posting standards holy fuck. Let me know when you want to add $500 of your own money to the prize pool
you are holding this tournament only because it literally isn't "your own money", but the money that was supposed to fund your trip to DH
I guess you scammed the donators yourself tho?
|
Ej_ you are retarded dude
User was warned for this post
|
I am a casual stream audience watching Avilo from time to time. I am not a hardcore SC2 gamer, so as far as I remember I have no TL post before although I registered a long time ago. But I wanted to share my opinion because I am seeing a serious accusation against a streamer that I like watching from time to time. I subbed to him in the past for a month to support the stream, I am currently not a sub.
I was watching Avilo on and off during that donation time to go to DH and I remember Avilo saying he will go to DH if he reaches the goal and will do a tournament with some of the money if he cannot. And the donation method was very transparent, you send your donation money and the money is Avilo's, there is no money back policy. As far as I know this is a common method among streamers. Some streamers for example use such donation goals to get a new computer.
In the end, Avilo couldn't reach the goal, so he didn't go to DH but instead setup the tournament he promised with some of the money he got from donations. So I am having a really hard time understanding TLO's stance that Avilo scammed his audience and it makes me uncomfortable. And although I stopped following TLO when he switched to Zerg and almost never watched his stream, I had a big respect for him as a SC2 player because of his creative play when he was Terran.
So:
- Saying the method for donations was wrong, that it should have beeen "money back policy" if the goal was not reached - ok, but it would be really hard to do since Avilo was already using donations as an income method, and got donations every day. so finding a method to differentiate usual donations from DH donations is pretty hard
- Saying he wanted more money than he needed - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying the price pool should have been bigger - ok, but remember that he gets donations as a streamer every day regardless of DH, so you cannot expect the whole donation he got during DH month to go to price pool.
- Saying he is toxic - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying the balance changes he makes are bad - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying he is a bad player - ok, arguably he is not one of the best players in sc2 scene looking at ladder ranking and tournament wins, but he is a solid player nevertheless
- Saying he is delusional because he accuses every opponent of cheating - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying he hurts the game because of his behavior - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying he is a scammer - THIS IS NOT OK, this is a serious accusation (and a real world crime) and, as far as I know by watching Avilo a lot and having information about the donation process, a false accusation. And frankly, I lost my respect for TLO after hearing him saying such a thing.
So, you can say a lot of things about Avilo and I would aggree with some of them, but there is a truth that it is appearent that he likes SC very much, he is very committed to the game (he streams SC2 almost every day for a lot of years), he is actively involved with the community and wants to make SC a better game with more audience. So accusing such a contributing player with false statements would ultimately hurt SC2 as a game which needs us to stay together to remain as a popular e-sports game.
|
Is there a reason I cant find this event in the TL calendar? I mean it has prize money and even if people disagree with the balance changes I'm pretty sure a few are interested in watching it.
|
On May 27 2017 16:25 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 15:43 avilo wrote:On May 27 2017 13:27 showstealer1829 wrote:On May 27 2017 04:33 Suchbalancemuchwow wrote:
Lets just stop flaming people from both sides, and act like adults? Please? Toxic can only be avoided by not actually acknowledging it.
Can we just watch both of their tournaments and enjoy something that isn't adeptcraft or mass air battles? Both TLO and Avilo are doing good stuff for the game at the moment. These tournaments will show us and the dev team once and for all if SC2 is currently well designed or not. If it isn't, then we might get a better game out of it at the end of the day.
Ontopic
Avilo, Why didn't you just remove the swarmhost and adept shade entirely. TLO's change that makes infested terrans good units again is in my opinion the perfect replacement of the swarm host, with that in the game the swarmhost is obsolete. There is furthermore no actual reason why the adept should be a beefy unit with high dps, and high mobility. No other unit is these 3 things. (Well, I guess an argument can be made for the marauder)
I have only praise for tackling the offensive pylon overcharge though, that stuff is ridiculous. As for the defensive one costing 75 energy. Well, it'd be nice of the mothership core started with that much energy atleast. Protoss really does have problems holding off cheese without pylon overcharge.
TLO is doing good stuff for the game Avilo is just continuing his conman act. Ok, this is has gone far enough, i'm hoping TL will actually help moderate this cesspool of absolute fucking horseshit that is below TL.net posting standards holy fuck. Let me know when you want to add $500 of your own money to the prize pool you are holding this tournament only because it literally isn't "your own money", but the money that was supposed to fund your trip to DH I guess you scammed the donators yourself tho?
But in avilo's world donations that he said would either go to going to Dreamhack or funding a tournament are now his "own personal bank account".
Just like in avilo's world the game is "broken" instead of the truth of him being "terrible"
And in avilo's world he's "saving esports" instead of being "a toxic cancer of the community"
In short, he's a liar, a conman, a cancer and a stain on the community in general. The only "cesspool of absolute fucking horseshit" around is spelt A-V-I-L-O.
But hey you have fans avilo, good for you, keep milking those fanboys there oh great and powerful one. As for the $500 offer. Let me put it this way. Unless you're willing to use the words "I'm avilo and I quit Starcraft 2 forever" on your stream don't hold your breath, I'll use my own money on people that deserve it, in other words, not you.
|
|
|
On May 27 2017 17:43 ZuLuuuuuu wrote:
- Saying he is a scammer - THIS IS NOT OK, this is a serious accusation (and a real world crime) and, as far as I know by watching Avilo a lot and having information about the donation process, a false accusation. And frankly, I lost my respect for TLO after hearing him saying such a thing.
Yeah thats what I feel too, people are just too toxic and heated up about avilo.
|
On May 27 2017 17:43 ZuLuuuuuu wrote:
I am a casual stream audience watching Avilo from time to time. I am not a hardcore SC2 gamer, so as far as I remember I have no TL post before although I registered a long time ago. But I wanted to share my opinion because I am seeing a serious accusation against a streamer that I like watching from time to time. I subbed to him in the past for a month to support the stream, I am currently not a sub.
I was watching Avilo on and off during that donation time to go to DH and I remember Avilo saying he will go to DH if he reaches the goal and will do a tournament with some of the money if he cannot. And the donation method was very transparent, you send your donation money and the money is Avilo's, there is no money back policy. As far as I know this is a common method among streamers. Some streamers for example use such donation goals to get a new computer.
In the end, Avilo couldn't reach the goal, so he didn't go to DH but instead setup the tournament he promised with some of the money he got from donations. So I am having a really hard time understanding TLO's stance that Avilo scammed his audience and it makes me uncomfortable. And although I stopped following TLO when he switched to Zerg and almost never watched his stream, I had a big respect for him as a SC2 player because of his creative play when he was Terran.
So:
- Saying the method for donations was wrong, that it should have beeen "money back policy" if the goal was not reached - ok, but it would be really hard to do since Avilo was already using donations as an income method, and got donations every day. so finding a method to differentiate usual donations from DH donations is pretty hard
- Saying he wanted more money than he needed - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying the price pool should have been bigger - ok, but remember that he gets donations as a streamer every day regardless of DH, so you cannot expect the whole donation he got during DH month to go to price pool.
- Saying he is toxic - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying the balance changes he makes are bad - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying he is a bad player - ok, arguably he is not one of the best players in sc2 scene looking at ladder ranking and tournament wins, but he is a solid player nevertheless
- Saying he is delusional because he accuses every opponent of cheating - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying he hurts the game because of his behavior - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying he is a scammer - THIS IS NOT OK, this is a serious accusation (and a real world crime) and, as far as I know by watching Avilo a lot and having information about the donation process, a false accusation. And frankly, I lost my respect for TLO after hearing him saying such a thing.
So, you can say a lot of things about Avilo and I would aggree with some of them, but there is a truth that it is appearent that he likes SC very much, he is very committed to the game (he streams SC2 almost every day for a lot of years), he is actively involved with the community and wants to make SC a better game with more audience. So accusing such a contributing player with false statements would ultimately hurt SC2 as a game which needs us to stay together to remain as a popular e-sports game.
ZuLuuuuuu thx for the post, tottaly agree with you. Respect (btw im from Armenia  )
|
I'd like to commend Avilo for what he's doing here. He's willing to put money where his mouth is, and demonstrate by a tournament if his changes are viable. Even if the changes are really drastic, in the past other community balance mods have been received very positively. Adding something to the game can be only a good thing, it's not like the changes will be applied to ladder.
My input concerning the changes :
Although the intent to favor ground mech over other types of play is pretty clear, some changes go too far and would practically remove some units from the game, which would reduce diversity. I'm thinking about the swarmhost and adept changes, they would simply not get made anymore. The adept change is a good idea though, maybe try something less extreme, like reduce attack and movement speed by 20% during shade cooldown.
Zerg needs a way to deal with mass air and break siege lines, and with Vipers, Corruptors, Broodlords, Swarmhosts, and even Hydras nerfed, they wouldn't stand a change late game against any high tech Terran army.
Terran gains too much adaptability. Merging air and ground mech upgrades and allowing to build Vikings from factories would make ground mech a low risk proposition by allowing quick transition to anti-air with full upgrades in case of enemy air transition. Making a certain type of play fool-proof is a bad idea since that would make it the only viable type of play and thus reduce diversity in the game.
Protoss changes seem more reasonable, except for the adept as said above. The pylon overcharge change is not ideal, in my view it should be limited to pylons that are connected to the energy field of a Nexus, that way their defensive capabilities are maintained but not the abuse potential.
|
|
|
TL gave Avilo the benefit of the doubt after his explanation regarding the way he handled the donations. It's clear some people either just don't agree with this decision or maybe are not fully aware of what reasons TL might have had to come to the conclusion he might actually not have scammed his donators. Either way, it would be nice if new posts would just be about the tournament or the balance changes.
Maybe it's time for a mod note?
|
Can we just get ridd of all these sub 20 avilo fanboy toxic spamposts accounts here?
|
People love to see things in black and white, but there's nothing clear cut about this. His promises were vague and weren't put in writing so it's all a grey area.
He said he wouldn't go to Dreamhack if he didn't make the goal but he didn't say what would happen if he made $1 less. He didn't reach the goal but he did make a substantial amount. He said he would hold a tournament but he didn't say how much he would put towards it. So it's basically just a matter of judgment whether you think he's breached the spirit of what he said he was going to do.
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I'd say he's done about the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest.
|
I think we need the precise opposite. Some moderation of all the people that are unjustifiably calling him a scammer.
|
On May 27 2017 21:52 Justinian wrote:
People love to see things in black and white, but there's nothing clear cut about this. His promises were vague and weren't put in writing so it's all a grey area.
He said he wouldn't go to Dreamhack if he didn't make the goal but he didn't say what would happen if he made $1 less. He didn't reach the goal but he did make a substantial amount. He said he would hold a tournament but he didn't say how much he would put towards it. So it's basically just a matter of judgment whether you think he's breached the spirit of what he said he was going to do.
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I'd say he's done about the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest.
I think that this is a pretty reasonable post.. I've given this drama some thought. I tune into avilo's stream whenever he's on and I'm on the comp or taking a satisfying defecation, Anyways, with that being said, "the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest" is quite fair.
|
Damn 12 pages for this tournament already? Pretty much most hyped online tournament in years.
|
less than 4 hours to the big tournament...
i haven't been this excited for a tournament since Wrestlemania 4.
|
The funny thing is that this tournament is completely VOLUNTARY. The changes are not being applied to general online play and you do not have to enter this tournament if you do not want to.
It is quite ridiculous how indignant and angry people are getting about the changes that Avilo is applying to his own PERSONALLY RUN tournament. If you don't like the changes, don't play, watch, or support the tournament. The aggressive and negative comments aren't helping anyone.
Yes, these balance changes are probably going to exploit some weird and very unbalanced games- but so what? This possibility should be expected by any player entering. The main goal with this type of tournament should be to have fun. And who knows, maybe at the end everyone can agree that one of the changes actually made the game better. Or, if not, we can all laugh about it and say, "at least it was entertaining".
|
On May 27 2017 23:28 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
less than 4 hours to the big tournament...
i haven't been this excited for a tournament since Wrestlemania 4.
30 minutes to go. Hopefully avilo shows up.
|
On May 23 2017 22:39 Xamo wrote:
May I make some suggestions on balance changes in the same direction?
Zerg balance changes: Drones cannot be built any more.
Protoss balance changes: Probes explode 5 seconds after being made.
Terran balance changes: Barracks and starports can only make tanks
Creativity at its best, I literally lost it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
