SEARCH "AVI BALANCE MOD" on the NA server to practice and test the changes!
Hi guys, as many people may or may not know i mentioned that if i did not manage to meet my goal to get to DH I would do a tournament instead so here it is
As you also may remember or not remember, I previously did two avilo KOTH Tournaments which brought in quite a lot of viewers and were quite entertaining to cast and watch. Tournaments that do not just use the bland format can be really exciting for viewers and players.
With that said you know my tourney is not going to be a standard LOTV tournament by any means.
The "Avilo Tournament Balance Test Mod" tourney will be a tournament played on an extension mode with balance and gameplay changes designed by myself and implemented via map editor by DarkBlizzard, the creator of arcade games Ghost Finder, and Reinforcements Delay.
The mod can be found on every server by creating a custom game, choose a map, and then selecting "Create with Mod" and then searching "avi Balance Mod"
NOTE: AT THE MOMENT USE BASE SKINS, MANY CHANGES HAVE NOT BEEN APPLIED TO SKINNED UNITS like viking/hellion skins.
The prize breakdown will be: BIASED FROM TL HAS ADDED $300 TO THE PRIZEPOOL TY! The tournament now has a total $800 prize pool! 1st place: $450.00 $300.00 2nd place: $200.00 $125.00 3rd place : $150.00 $75.00
Tournament Date: All matches up to semi-finals/finals/3rd will be played on: Saturday May 27, 2017 2:00 p.m. EST
The semi-finals/finals/3rd place will be played on: Sunday May 28th, 2017 2:00 p.m. EST and i will be casting all of them, DO NOT PLAY YOUR MATCHES UNTIL I AM IN GAME WITH YOU!
Format/Rules: BO3 Till Semis BO5 Semi-Finals BO5 3rd place Match / BO7 Finals
Map pool is same as current pool. Lower seed chooses to veto first or have 1st map pick, vetos alternate, standard abababab veto format.
Smurfing is not allowed in this tournament. Sign up under whatever ID you're known as, if you are caught playing under a different ID and win you will not be paid out prize money.
This is to prevent potential cheaters trying to play in the tourney, and other potential problems such as people playing on other accounts that are not theirs, people trying to hide their identity in general to get an unfair advantage, etc.
So again, sign up for this tournament requires you to play and let it be known what your "main" username or account is or whatever you are known in the SC2 community as. If you play in this tourney as a random, end up winning, and then reveal you're "so n so" player, this will qualify as smurfing and you will not be paid out any money and i'll pay out whoever was next in line for the prize money (aka 4th/5th place i'd have play against each other, etc.)
*all rules are subject to change by me, i'll use common sense and any situations that arise i'll do my best to handle fairly!
It's time the SC2 community take things into our own hands, and i'm hoping from running this tournament on this extension mod it can open up the SC2 community's eyes that balance changes can be made to SC2 more often than once every 8 months without destroying the game. We deserve better.
We have all been loyal to this game for years, and waiting years upon years for "mech viability" to come to fruition only to be served more swarmhosts for the last 6 months with no fixes. The fact that things like invulnerable nydus worms have remained in the game since launch should be unacceptable to anyone with an iota of passion for SC2.
Below I will be listing out all of the changes that you will find on this extension mod, as well as balance developer reasoning for why each change is being implemented and what the change is intended to accomplish.
Avilo Tourney Balance Mod:
Global Changes: All mineral patches at every base on every map now start with 1500 minerals instead of half having 900.
Zerg: Queen anti-air range reduced to 7 from 8. Baneling upgrade no longer grants the +5 health. Hydralisk upgrade no longer grants +10 health.
Swarmhost cost increased to 200/150 from 100/75. Swarmhost supply increased to 6. Swarmhost health reduced to 120 from 160. Swarmhost armor tag changed to light. Swarmhost speed off-creep decreased to 2.5 from 4.13. Swarmhost speed on-creep changed to 4.13.
Corruptor Movement speed reverted to 4.1343 from 4.725. Corruptor caustic spray ability removed from the game.
Infestor now longer able to cast fungal from burrow. Infestor still able to cast neural from burrow.
Nydus worm exits are now targettable while spawning. Nydus worm exits cost reduced to 75/75 from 100/100.
Hydralisk cost decreased to 75/50 from 100/50. Lurker cost decreased to 50/50 from 50/100. Lurker den morph time reduced to 43 sec from 86 sec.
Overlord speed upgrade now requires lair tech. Overlord drop upgrade now requires lair tech.
Viper abduct cost increased to 125 from 75. Viper blinding cloud cost increased to 125 from 100.
Broodlord supply increased to 4 from 2.
Terran Changes:
Reaper grenade removed from the game.
Raven supply increased to 4 from 2. Raven auto-turret energy cost increased to 75 from 50. Raven corvid reactor upgrade increases raven starting energy to 125 instead of 75.
Battlecruiser supply increased to 8 from 6. Liberator supply increased to 4 from 3. Liberator range upgrade removed from the game.
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100. Mech air and ground upgrades re-combined at the armory.
Infernal Pre-igniter upgrade cost reduced to 100/100 from 150/150.
Hellions can no longer transform to hellbat mode with armory pre-req. Vikings can no longer transform when built from factories/starports.
Vikings are now producable from factories. They are able to be produced from reactored factories as well. When produced from a factory vikings come out of the factory in ground mode.
Transformation Servos upgraded added to the factory tech lab. Transformation Servos cost 100/100. Transformation Servos takes 43 sec to research.
Upon upgrade completion Hellions are now able to transform between Hellbat and Hellion mode freely. Vikings are now able to transform between ground and air mode freely.
Viking base armor when in ground mode is increased by 1.
Thor Javelin Missile Launchers damage increased from 6 (+6 vs light) to 12. Thor High Impact Payload Mode Removed from the game.
Protoss:
Mothership core recall energy cost increased to 75 from 50. Mothership core pylon overcharge cost increased to 75 from 50. Mothership core can only overcharge pylons that do not have an enemy building within the pylon's power radius/overcharge range.
Zealot Charge cost reduced to 100/100 from 200/200.
Adept health/shield values changed. Adept health changed to 40. Adept shields changed to 100.
When an adept uses the psionic transfer ability, upon completion the adepts shields are reduced to 0.
(If the adept shade is cancelled, no shields are lost.)
Carrier supply cost increased to 8 from 6. Carrier interceptor cost increased to 25.
Tempest health/shields changed to 250/125 from 300/150.
Warp prism cost increased to 250 from 200. Warp prism pick-up range reduced to 4 from 5. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zerg Changes: Keep in mind, the common theme across all 3 races is that mass air is being toned down through supply increases to air units.
Queen range is being reverted to previous values because it's unnecessary for queens to be a "defend everything" unit anymore since liberators were already nerfed by Blizzard, and liberator range is removed from this mod. Hydralisks also are cheaper which should give Zerg more anti-air options.
Swarmhosts are being severely nerfed because they completely limit mech viability and are also quite strong vs Protoss. You'll notice they now have actual weaknesses, and are still usable just not as your entire army. Swarmhosts now are relegated to a purely harrassment role. Building more than a few will most likely result in a player being put a huge deficit.
Infestor burrow cast fungal is no longer possible. Being able to cast from essentially perma cloak is too strong. A Zerg will now have to unburrow before fungaling, making it harder to pull off, which is more fair for the defending player.
Invincible nydus worm has been reverted to remove ridiculous all-ins that have been plaguing LOTV since release.
Baneling and Hydralisk combat shields have also been removed, as these are making Zerg too strong on the live version of the game. There is no reason for banelings or hydralisks to be given a free combat shields upgrade. Hydralisks are cheaper though, hopefully making them more accessible and used more often during this tournament.
Lurker den morph time is cut in half, as well as lurkers being cheaper, having their gas cost cut in half. Hopefully this will push lurkers to be used a lot more versus both Terran and Protoss and allow for styles involving lurkers to be utilized more since lurkers will be available much earlier on in the game. This will also affect ZvZ in a way that potentially gets rid of roach vs roach wars and adds more positional oriented play.
Overlord transport and speed have been reverted to HOTS lair tech prerequisites. There is no way these upgrades should ever have been on tier 1 tech, and they are rightfully being placed back to lair tech. Scouting with Zerg will now require an actual drawback of sacing an overlord, rather than having infinite scouting tier 1 via speedlords.
The viper changes are to hopefully reduce the power of the unit, by allowing only 1 abduct at full energy, and allowing mech play to be more viable, as well as late game Zerg toned down some.
Terran Changes:
Most Terran air units are getting supply increases, as mentioned earlier, a huge point of my changes are to tone down air units allowing ground units to be more effective since there will be more of them. Air units costing more supply means a maxed out army of mass air will inherently be weaker than a player that opts for mass ground.
Ravens have many changes. They are double the supply, similar to swarmhost supply increases. Auto-turret cost is increased to 75 to dis-allow mass turret spam lategame.
This means end game players that opt for mass ravens will have half of the current ravens that they would on the live version of the game, and also will have half of the auto-turrets that they currently would. This alone should heavily discourage massing of the unit, while still keeping ravens as a powerful addition to your army.
Corvid reactor is changed to increase raven starting energy to 125, allowing a seeker immediately upon raven production, but note, only 1 auto-turret since auto-turret energy is now 75, rather than 50. This should allow a raven to be more immediately useful to a Terran like it was in HOTS, while not being overpowered.
Armories are reduced to Brood War price of 100/50 to allow mech Terrans the capabilities to even upgrade their units.
Mech air and ground upgrades have been re-combined. Again, to re-promote mech play as a Terran strategy.
The biggest change is allowing production of vikings from factories. This alone from testing has shown to allow mech to become a viable style. It turns out allowing the factory to have a mass producible anti-air unit actually makes mech viable.
The change i came up with of allowing vikings to be built from factories seemed optimal because it doesn't change anything about units in the game, it just simply gives mech a viable anti-air option that already exists within the game.
It also means that a meching Terran can now go past 5 factories instead of needing an extra 500-700 vespene gas to get starports to counter air.
I took measures to make sure viking cheeses are not possible versus Zerg and Terran. Vikings built from factories come out in ground mode, vikings from starports come out in air mode. Vikings cannot change modes by default anymore - it requires research of the transformation servos upgrade at the factory tech lab. This will prevent proxy factory viking cheeses versus every race by simply delaying viking transformation capabilities.
The players that tested the change and opted to go mech said that the viking change alone allows mech to be playable because they can now immediately respond to mass air threats without automatically losing the game from opting to go mech.
Hellions also cannot transform until the transformation servos upgrade is researched. The upgrade affects both vikings and hellions.
The thor change to javelin missiles that Blizzard previously promised many times has also been added onto the map. Thors are now a viable anti-air option versus capital ships.
Protoss Changes:
The infuriating design of the MSC has been addressed and fixed on this extension mod. Again huge fucking thanks to Darkblizzard for being able to code this via the editor.
MSC photon overcharge has been changed. If a pylon has an enemy building within it's power radius, photon overcharge cannot be used. This will put an end to pylon under the ramp cheeses.
MSC recall and photon overcharge also have had their energy increased to 75, making these require more thought when using.
Warp prisms have been nerfed as this unit is overall too strong for it's cost and what it does.
Carriers and tempests have both been nerfed to tone down air, just like with all 3 races air units.
Adepts finally have been fixed and addressed in a meaningful way on this mod. Adepts have the same effective health as they do on the live version of the game. They still can be used the same exact way as a part of a player's army.
But now if an adept uses it's psionic transfer ability it will lose it's shields, creating a drawback to the ability. If the unit is used for harrassment or to try to shade on top of the army, the Protoss player now has a cost to pay for doing so.
This should allow adepts to be less of a pain to deal with on defense, without changing any actual statistics of the unit
I'm hoping the $500 prize pool will attract the attention of a lot of good players, and they'll be able to show how they can adapt to these changes.
Once again guys, the tournament will be over 2 days. Saturday May 27th, 2017 2 p.m. EST is when the tourney will start, and all matches up till semis will be played.
Players will come back on Sunday at 2 p.m. and i will be casting all of the semi finals matches, 3rd place match, and finals.
I'm hoping a TL mod/admin someone can help me get this event added to the calendar !
In the mean time, sign up guys!
NEWS: BIASED ON TL HAS ADDED $300 TO THE PRIZEPOOL, TOTAL PRIZEPOOL NOW AT 800$!!!! TYVM!
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: $500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself. That's fair. I will top up another $300 but that goes directly to prize pool. Not your personal spending. Agreed?
Not sure if this is a troll account or not. If not...that's awesome, get into touch with me.
You should have the money on your paypal account now (including processing fee, paypal takes quite a hefty toll). It's your turn to raise prize pool. Distribution is completely up to you.
The changes for zerg and terran are interesting and might make the game funnier. But it's quite obvious no one playing protoss actually thought of The protoss changes
On May 23 2017 17:52 TKL wrote: The changes for zerg and terran are interesting and might make the game funnier. But it's quite obvious no one playing protoss actually thought of The protoss changes
In regards to those, i admit that i did not really brainstorm a re-design in any way shape or form regarding gateway units like a lot of people have requested or thought about for a while.
The problem and issue that Protoss suffers from is that the adept is so strong in LOTV to the point that the entire Protoss race is quite literally balanced around the ability to spam pure adepts every game.
I did not want to go overboard on changes to Protoss that would impact core gameplay and cascade into a myriad of other problems. You have to consider all of the changes go hand in hand...and that ground units and mass gateway production will be inherently stronger on this mod because every race's air units have been toned down.
This means without making a single change to any gateway units, i have made gateway based compositions inherently stronger due to the fact players will have less supply invested in the god tier air units of their races.
Another thing to consider is mass robotics, and i'm talking 3-5 robotics facilities...is going to be very strong for the reasons previously stated - air units are toned down. You can commit more of your supply to ground aka more disruptors, collosus, and immortals.
Again, if i were you or a Protoss that is going to play in this tournament, i would keep that in mind. Protoss warpgate/mass robo is inherently stronger on this mod. I would not be surprised if a Protoss player wins this tournament despite there not seemingly being many Protoss changes.
As for feedback on the changes, they're appreciated but these are the changes that will be implemented for the tournament, so players hopefully will play some practice games and possibly think up some ways to utilize them to their fullest !
Take a game state where everybody thinks it's roughly balanced, nerf zerg 20 times, give them one marginal buff to a unit that has little use in any non mirror matchup, nerf protoss 15 times, buff Terran mech a couple of times and consider it AviloBalance.
You completely nerf air play out of the skies (punintended) because you consider it a bad thing. Guess what, if you force the game into this TvT only, Mech v Mech only state, and there's no viable air transition, how is the lategame gonna go? Wait till all bases mine out and see whoever gets better siege tank placement over the 90 minute "game"?
It's especially funny to me that you think putting a 500$ prize tag on this is gonna get anybody to play this mod seriously. People will play the tournament, sure, they probably stop reading the 'balance changes' after the 6th zerg nerf, try what they know and cheese their way to the win. What a waste of time and money.
It's time the SC2 community take things into our own hands, and i'm hoping from running this tournament on this extension mod it can open up the SC2 community's eyes that balance changes can be made to SC2 more often than once every 8 months without destroying the game. We deserve better.
How is protoss supposed to engage bio now when adepts lose all their shields when they transfer? They will melt, and without using transfer the bio will just kite the adepts for days. I think that you over nerfed them.
These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
On May 23 2017 19:09 Buffbefehl wrote: Nice tournament, thank you for saving Esports, avilo. Can you do another one with a 200$ prize pool after you raise 3000$ for going to DH Valencia?
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
I mean I'd pray to god he didnt blow 2.7k or w/e it was on this tournament... at least he is holding one, and if he holds more with the money he spent, hopefully there will at least be some with like... the actual current patch which i think everyone could get behind.
at least he is doing something so far, regardless of how stupid the balance stuff is. it's his money and his tournament so :l
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
I've seen worse from Blizzard, people actually payed to make this game the best they possibly can. Pro liquid player clicked on this thread just to flame. He never said these should all be in the game and even said he didn't even think about the protoss changes.
REAL CLASS ACT FROM TL PRO PLAYERS.
Never liked avilo, but he is doing something for the community here. No reason to bring that BS in here. Just losing fans who support you and the organization you are a part of. Just sad TLO....
Well, they are horrible, horrible balance changes, you even indicate yourself that he didn't even properly think about 1/3rd of the races involved.
And the remark at the money committed has more to do with keeping Avilo transperant and honest than anything.
I don't see how you starting a random witchhunt is any better. All TLO did is A) call the changes bad (which 99% of the community wil lagree with) and B) asking him where the rest of the money went.
On May 23 2017 19:48 Ouija wrote: I've seen worse from Blizzard, people actually payed to make this game the best they possibly can. Pro liquid player clicked on this thread just to flame. He never said these should all be in the game and even said he didn't even think about the protoss changes.
REAL CLASS ACT FROM TL PRO PLAYERS.
Never liked avilo, but he is doing something for the community here. No reason to bring that BS in here. Just losing fans who support you and the organization you are a part of. Just sad TLO....
Criticizing the balance changes and the prizepool isn't flaming. Flaming is when you attack the person directly. For example if someone were to say Avilo is a IRL troll who blindly accuses everyone of hacking instead of trying to get better at the game he has made his career of off, that would be flaming.
However, I can respect the effort. I don't agree with the changes, but we'll see how it turns out. Some might be great ideas, others not. Unfortunately they won't make a statement or cause someone to think about balance, since the changes are all over the place . But it will be interesting. I just have to mute the stream, because I can not watch Avilo for more than a minute (nothing personal, some people just have annoying voices).
At least he is doing something. All these EU zerg and toss Pro players are content with the pathetic work of the SC2 balance team because the current game state suits their races which is understandable cause they have a chance to make more money. That does not mean however that someone who actually is trying to improve the game has to be bashed at every opportunity. I am not an Avilo fan but big thumbs up for this and for all the hard work behind this tourney and the balance mod SC2 could use more poeple like him. If he only had better manners and personality, right? Looking forward to this!
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
On May 23 2017 20:07 MarianoSC2 wrote: At least he is doing something. All these EU zerg and toss Pro players are content with the pathetic work of the SC2 balance team because the current game state suits their races which is understandable cause they have a chance to make more money. That does not mean however that someone who actually is trying to improve the game has to be bashed at every opportunity. I am not an Avilo fan but big thumbs up for this and for all the hard work behind this tourney and the balance mod SC2 could use more poeple like him. If he only had better manners and personality, right? Looking forward to this!
I honestly have to say that I have great concerns for his mental capabilities if "hard work" went into these changes.
On May 23 2017 19:09 Buffbefehl wrote: Nice tournament, thank you for saving Esports, avilo. Can you do another one with a 200$ prize pool after you raise 3000$ for going to DH Valencia?
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
came here for some giggles, wont leave disappointed :D thanks avilo aviDoge aviFtoss
Lol, totally agree with TLO worst patch ever. Especially adepts such a joke. Well I think the esier way to do that was to oblidge every player who plays P/Z and bio T to play with 50% health lol.
As much as I don't believe one second to this balance (some change may sound decent individually but as a whole it's terrible) I strongly encourage this project. For too long people have been shitting on Blizzard and D Kim's work, like it they were so much smarter than them, but never do anything to bring any consistent proof of what they say.
So go for it, have your balance mod tournament and show the world your true wit.
Don't forget to also grace us with these wonderful maps you do on MS paint...
Haha, nice to see that Avilo is still living the dream. This- what i read above...It's so disgustingly one sided and suited for one player that is Avilo himself. Hey- lets make Zerg and Protoss useless and nerf something irrelevant for Terran just to say " every race got their nerfs". This is so "Avilo" and i think that suits for review of this changes. Good luck with your tournament Avilo. Don't forget to ban from it every player above diamond league just in case. There's always risk that somebody else wins that haha. But to be honest u made my day with this post. Thank You at least for that.
just because he's Avilo people don't even care the fact that this balance mod is good
and because all people get really bad balance patch but favor themselves like zerg free buff and protoss just make adepts army then get advantage from spamming 1 unit that have free ability massable and can rekt your worker line in 5 seconds
please ask yourself again is that call balance? just because it make u get advantage that u shouldn't have?
all the reason that u people say its worst mod he already put it on the post but looks like everyone that being BS just never gonna read it when it comes to nerfing their free advantage
so community just wanna see the game with mass queen ling bane defend everything then get hive tech and auto win and mass adepts 80-90% army or mass air unit win everything rather than seeing many strategies that viable to be chosen to play with ground unit and positioning just like starcraft was
u can play the same style that doesn't require that much effort to win your opponent on the current patch but in this mod it make people to put effort in the same amout to play which represent fair gameplay that doesn't exist in the SC2 current state right now
and Avilo already post it(but as usual BS people not gonna read it) this mod encourage u to play the style that take more skills to play with ground units. u can play the same style that u did but its not gonna be effective as it is and give u free advantage by doing something that require low effort, u can mass air still but its not gonna be effective because the player that make ground unit will have more unit than u.
so before u gonna be negative about something that gonna rip your free advantage that u shouldn't have out or because he is "Avilo" . go play the mod first and figure out how to play it (i'll guide u it just like playing BW)
and about his money Avilo raise for DH that he didn't reach
he set 45 days with 3.5k goal which he set his daily donation goal for 100 bucks and that's his income being full-time streamer to pay rent,food etc., to survive every month. someday he reach the daily goal someday he didn't. just 200 subs on twitch isn't enough to pay rent and food just let guys know(cause seems like some people think he can Photosynthesis to survive). and he didn't reach the goal he get 2.4k donation which it just a bit more than normally he would get per month and he did what he said he'll if he didn't reach the goal which is organize this tournament.
Sad for Liquid that one of their Pro just being Bias. if u gonna be real TLO then make a debate with Avilo and don't forget to play the mod
ps. I'm not Westerner my English is bad sorry for that and yes i'm Avilo's fan it's not a shame to be his fan just because people don't like him when they don't even know his real personalities and don't even try to listen to what he said even tho he's the only one who talk about balance without being blizzard shill, get paycheck from blizzard or don't want their race to be nerfed
Considering that a lot of the community has some... interesting feelings about you, I'm not that unhappy with these changes. All in all, I think that you didn't make it too bad. I like your idea of air being a more tactical tool, rather than being "mass it and everything dies". Although some thoughts:
I think mid-game ZvT would work out alright. Early-game is now better for Zerg, with the removal of reaper grenades (which I love). Also, some of the gimmicks with early-game Ravens and Liberators are now less cancer. Rushing to Liberator Range upgrade and sitting behind mineral lines is so annoying. Mid-game is now not more imbalanced, just different, meaning we'd just have to see it pan out. The cost changes make Zerg more swarmy, what with being to remax more cheaply. However, there is an issue that's already difficult for Zerg: late-game. Late-game Zerg could be at a disadvantage: 200/200 on both sides has always been a disadvantage for Zerg, and now Swarm Hosts and Brood Lords take more supply, and Hydras are less supply efficient. In contrast, mech play will be, again, different. I feel that there were changes made that really just need to be tested for mech, but fact remains late-game Zerg is weaker. I think leaving out the Nydus changes would be good: allowing the Zerg to get around the Terran more easily. Also, I get the lair requirement for Drop Overlord, but Speed Overlord? I think that's a bad decision. Zerg, especially now, relies on speed Overlord to get scouting. Without the upgrade, Zerg will have a hard time finding out what's going on in the early-game.
Now to Protoss: I don't think these are too good. The problem with Photon Overcharge was not that it was too strong/weak, but it was the only early-game defense the Protoss had. Add to that that Photon Overcharge isn't fun in general, and Protoss all-in defense is all based on a boring and cheap defense. If you remove that, you may have removed the weird defense, but Protoss will have NOTHING against an early-game all-in. You nerfed the Adept, and the charge isn't going to come into play at this stage of the game. You need to improve some aspect of the Protoss early-game. If you buff Photon Cannons, Cannon Rushes will be even more cancer than they already are. So that's not really an option unless you give it weird damage rules (maybe change worker armor tags, then bonus damage to light? Dunno). Protoss has been complaining about crappy gateway for a while, maybe this is the chance to deliver. Also, wtf is Protoss supposed to do vs. bio now? Their AOE was already either a spell or bad, and in the mid-game they relied on Adept shade. Now that you removed their shields (which you decreased in exchange for health, still 30 effective HP) on shade end, Their mid-game options are few and far between. (This is TvP)
for ZvP: I think there are more problems for toss now again. The main enemy of Zerg in ZvP has been Carrier for a while now, resulting in a situation of "kill them before they get there", which noone found fun. Now that doesn't exist anymore, you may have removed cancer, but in doing so sort of murdered a few aspects: Lurkers are cheaper, Hydras are cheaper. If you go Ling/Hydra/Lurker/Bane as Zerg with this patch, I have doubts as to whether or not Protoss will be able to do anything. Weaker Adepts will hurt against lings, Zealot charge will do jack shit against lurkers (as long as they're positioned properly). Granted you could argue that Disruptors/Adept/Spellcaser could kill it, but that just adds another button to press (and Disruptors aren't very consistent. If you'd miss you Disruptor shots, you'd be pretty much dead) High Templar? Nope, Banelings are there to kill it.
All in all, even though I think that these balance changes are made with good intent, one does not simply change balance and expect everything to go well. There are very many consequences to consider, especially with making radical changes. Maybe put some more thought into the changes and realize all the consequences that happen because of it. No doubt I have missed a few, I am only diamond league.
There's no debating with this guy, we all know, that's why nobody cares. He's the local village idiot. The boy who cries wolf. Over the past couple of years he has proven again and again to be absolutely unreasonable, and stuff like this only gets views and replies because it's so outrageous it's funny.
On May 23 2017 22:01 SC2Toastie wrote: There's no debating with this guy, we all know, that's why nobody cares. He's the local village idiot. The boy who cries wolf. Over the past couple of years he has proven again and again to be absolutely unreasonable, and stuff like this only gets views and replies because it's so outrageous it's funny.
I mean, I still read it through completely and gave it a chance. But it's bad.
I don't see why people are hating this. Obviously Avilo has discussed these changes in depth with pro players, including koreans, as well as balance designers at Blizzard. It is clear from even a cursory look at the changes that all 3 races benefit in some way from this.Take Zerg for example, the Lurker den morph time was reduced to 43 sec from 86 sec. That's 100% faster than it currently is, for a unit that is core to most Zerg match-ups. Or look at Protoss if you will, Zealot Charge cost reduced to 100/100 from 200/200. This is especially useful in the current meta, where Protoss are heavily reliant on Zealots in the early to mid-game, shading them into the enemy base to get scouting done and perform some light harass. Really if you can't see the brilliance in these changes, then you're probably not as good as avilo at the game, or you're one of the maphackers that keeps sniping avilo on ladder.
Avilo never agreed to spend 100% of donations on this tournament. Not only that, he will still pay taxes on the donations even if he spends $500 on the tournament. Plus, he's not a charity. If people donate to him, he can do whatever he wants with the money. You guys are getting your jimmy's rustled over nothing.
I mean, as much as anyone may hate the Adept, if you want the patch to be taken seriously you need to get rid of that ridiculous Adept nerf. Protoss relies on the Adept and its harass potential to keep itself in the game.
When you look at Protoss all he's done is nerf stuff across the board EXCEPT charge - but he's also buffed all the answers to charge zealots in Lurkers and Hellbats.
I think we can agree that "balance" changes to Protoss should not simply involve blanket nerfs.
Global Changes: All mineral patches at every base on every map now start with 1500 minerals instead of half having 900.
...so which one is it?
On the adept's side - are you kidding? Instant 100 HP loss for a transfer? Not to mention nice and cushy way of nullifying their value with just a one ghost.
Setting those aside, wouldn't be funny if some uber-Toss would show up and presented some major kickassery on Ts?
On May 23 2017 22:26 DinoMight wrote: I mean, as much as anyone may hate the Adept, if you want the patch to be taken seriously you need to get rid of that ridiculous Adept nerf. Protoss relies on the Adept and its harass potential to keep itself in the game.
It's quite clear which units he doesn't like: adepts, swarm hosts. He basically said, "they're still technically in the game, though they're nerfed do hard you'd have to be insane to use them"
While removing some things like liberator range, that sees very minimal use as it is to show "see? Terran got nerfed, too"
This should be called the "ground-mech wet dream" tournament. Nerf every mech counter, buff ground mech, and in case you need more anti-air, BOOM - vikings produced from the factories with 3-3 built-in from the ground upgrades.
May I make some suggestions on balance changes in the same direction?
Zerg balance changes: Drones cannot be built any more. Protoss balance changes: Probes explode 5 seconds after being made. Terran balance changes: Barracks and starports can only make tanks
On May 23 2017 22:26 DinoMight wrote: I mean, as much as anyone may hate the Adept, if you want the patch to be taken seriously you need to get rid of that ridiculous Adept nerf. Protoss relies on the Adept and its harass potential to keep itself in the game.
It's quite clear which units he doesn't like: adepts, swarm hosts. He basically said, "they're still technically in the game, though they're nerfed do hard you'd have to be insane to use them"
While removing some things like liberator range, that sees very minimal use as it is to show "see? Terran got nerfed, too"
Yeah, I mean the silly thing is he's been at this for so long. Propose some kind of huge mech buff. Propose an equivalently huge nerf to mech counters. Throw in some tiny, irrelevant nerfs to random things so it seems "fair."
I love all these toss whiners justifying their cancer cheesy gimmicky gameplay by: Oh my I cant do anything else but spam adepts and do stupid cheesy stuff such as build proxy oracles and kill terrans with Pylon... WITH PYLON! :D This is just bullshit. Toss players got so used to abusing their stupid early game gimmicks that they just dont want to even try doing anything else. And I mean why should they if they can get their free wins with this kind of gameplay. They dont care that it riuns the game for everyone else... which is just sad.
If adepts and pylon got the much needed nerfs (compansated with nerf to Libs and reapers) and toss players actually tried to play the game they would find out its very much playable. This way ist just unfair, they not only have an economy advantage over any Terran but they have an infinite pool of early OP cheese. There is no mid/late game in TvP anymore, the matchup is ruined
P.S. I played toss, I am not biased against the race, I just think that the current state of the game ruined TvP matchup not only for the terran players, but for the viewers as well.
i listen in on Avilo's stream intermittently when i'm playing SC2 and i never heard him state the terms of the donations for Dreamhack... despite his claims otherwise. I did not listen to every second of every stream during the donation period.
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
I mean I'd pray to god he didnt blow 2.7k or w/e it was on this tournament... at least he is holding one, and if he holds more with the money he spent, hopefully there will at least be some with like... the actual current patch which i think everyone could get behind. at least he is doing something so far, regardless of how stupid the balance stuff is. it's his money and his tournament so :l
"his money" LOL. some would dispute that claiming the money was acquired under shady circumstances.
i recommend the OP state IN WRITING the precise terms of his donation soliciting when he is on his next "send me to an SC2 Event Fund Raiser". on some independent web site that he has no control over, with a date stamp on it that he again has zero control over.
by putting it in writing it avoids all this "well i said `this` and i said `that` and you were not listening" silliness.
if the OP puts nothing in writing for his next big fund raiser he needs to stop this "i'm being persecuted" crap. He is not being persecuted he is being sloppy and lazy.
the OP is fully responsible for the shitshow his last fund raiser turned into due to his lack of preparation. Had he put stuff in writing his claims would've been indisputable. instead it devolved into a giant finger-pointing exercise.
Can protoss hold reactor cyclone with these changes? Proxy rax-> reactor put factory onro reactor and make double cyclone float rax so pylons can't overcharge win game? Depending on how the pylon change is implemented you could probably just build a bunker next to it to stop overcharge
I never understood the reason for trying to remove pylon rushes from the game, they're the same as any other cheese in that they punish a greedy lack of scouting while leaving you behind if they fail
On May 23 2017 23:06 MarianoSC2 wrote: I love all these toss whiners justifying their cancer cheesy gimmicky gameplay by: Oh my I cant do anything else but spam adepts and do stupid cheesy stuff such as build proxy oracles and kill terrans with Pylon... WITH PYLON! :D This is just bullshit. Toss players got so used to abusing their stupid early game gimmicks that they just dont want to even try doing anything else. And I mean why should they if they can get their free wins with this kind of gameplay. They dont care that it riuns the game for everyone else... which is just sad.
If adepts and pylon got the much needed nerfs (compansated with nerf to Libs and reapers) and toss players actually tried to play the game they would find out its very much playable. This way ist just unfair, they not only have an economy advantage over any Terran but they have an infinite pool of early OP cheese. There is no mid/late game in TvP anymore, the matchup is ruined
P.S. I played toss, I am not biased against the race, I just think that the current state of the game ruined TvP matchup not only for the terran players, but for the viewers as well.
On May 23 2017 22:19 XenoX101 wrote: I don't see why people are hating this. Obviously Avilo has discussed these changes in depth with pro players, including koreans, as well as balance designers at Blizzard. It is clear from even a cursory look at the changes that all 3 races benefit in some way from this.Take Zerg for example, the Lurker den morph time was reduced to 43 sec from 86 sec. That's 100% faster than it currently is, for a unit that is core to most Zerg match-ups. Or look at Protoss if you will, Zealot Charge cost reduced to 100/100 from 200/200. This is especially useful in the current meta, where Protoss are heavily reliant on Zealots in the early to mid-game, shading them into the enemy base to get scouting done and perform some light harass. Really if you can't see the brilliance in these changes, then you're probably not as good as avilo at the game, or you're one of the maphackers that keeps sniping avilo on ladder.
The only person avilo talked to get those changes was avilo.
On May 23 2017 23:06 MarianoSC2 wrote: They dont care that it riuns the game for everyone else... which is just sad.
ya, these Protoss players are just pure evil. i know a couple of them.. they are horrible human beings. i was thinking of contacting the UN to find out if they're violating the geneva convention.
c'mon man.. get real. a fun win for 1 player can be a very frustrating loss for another player. Like all other 1v1 games.. SC2 is a zero-sum game.
I like few changes a lot. But looking at the rest I can't stop thinking that it's the case of "Even a broken clock is right twice a day". But if it happens to be not that case and Avilo sees those problems even with all his bias blinding him. Then props to him and the joke is on Blizzard.
Some of these balance changes are awful. I don't even know where to begin. When I got to the Swarm Host and BroodLord part I just stopped reading. While it's nice to see these balance changes, there are way too many changes where you wouldn't know what change actually makes the game better and what made it worse.
On May 23 2017 22:19 XenoX101 wrote: I don't see why people are hating this. Obviously Avilo has discussed these changes in depth with pro players, including koreans, as well as balance designers at Blizzard. It is clear from even a cursory look at the changes that all 3 races benefit in some way from this.Take Zerg for example, the Lurker den morph time was reduced to 43 sec from 86 sec. That's 100% faster than it currently is, for a unit that is core to most Zerg match-ups. Or look at Protoss if you will, Zealot Charge cost reduced to 100/100 from 200/200. This is especially useful in the current meta, where Protoss are heavily reliant on Zealots in the early to mid-game, shading them into the enemy base to get scouting done and perform some light harass. Really if you can't see the brilliance in these changes, then you're probably not as good as avilo at the game, or you're one of the maphackers that keeps sniping avilo on ladder.
The only person avilo talked to get those changes was avilo.
I'm gonna be banned by Avilo in a minute but still I dare to ask this "Is this a joke right?"
Any ideas to help with balance are always welcomed by community. But the only thing I see from this "balance" is neft Z and P heavily and burf T to full extreme. I don't even see a nerf on T side except the Liberator range upgrade removed (which is an abusive upgrade anyway). All changes in Z and P are nerf.
I'm triggered so I'm sorry in advance to Terran players out there but balance whine from T is too much already. You guys can't win it all so blame it on balance. The abusive of WDs, Liberators and drops are not enough as they are already.
Infestor burrow cast fungal is no longer possible. Being able to cast from essentially perma cloak is too strong. A Zerg will now have to unburrow before fungaling, making it harder to pull off, which is more fair for the defending player.
On May 24 2017 01:19 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: When Avilo takes over DKim's job
Zerg: -Zerg removed from game -Accounts with mostly Zerg played have been deleted forever
and protoss?
Protoss: -Using Blizzard's vast amounts of resources, Protoss players will be tracked down and systematically eliminated. If you know anyone who plays Protoss please contact us to have them dealt with. Protecting a Protoss player comes with punishment of death.
On May 23 2017 23:16 MLuneth wrote: I never understood the reason for trying to remove pylon rushes from the game, they're the same as any other cheese in that they punish a greedy lack of scouting while leaving you behind if they fail
You call this cheese? placing one or two pylons near enemy base is cheesing? I am afraid this method has no drawback at all, u only losing 200 minerals max which is nothing in compare to how much minerals terran has to spent to defend this
Greedy lack of scouting? you can do pylon rushes in front of enemy eyes, he can scv scout you, then reaper scout you and still lose to this. If terran focuses only to defend this, u know building bunkers, turrets, delaying CC etc. protoss can just forget about the idea because he did not sacrifice anything to do this.
Its not cheese, I would say its pylon rush macro opener with adept support ...
So basically. Nerf everything that counter mech into oblivion. While at the same time buff mech like crazy. Nerf early game Protoss shenanigans without compensating their mid game/late game. What about ZvP? Pretty sure Protoss can't touch Zerg early game now. I think David Kim had better balance ideas.
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
I have to admit, at least you do something, Avilo.
I don't agree with all of your changes, and I have to mention that I am a Mech enthusiast too. But the sheer number of changes is shakin the balance already quite hard. Personally I understand all adjustments adressed with the "problems" considered, but trough my eyes they all solely aim towards making Mech more powerful and not making the game viably more diverse in strategy.
If you would ask the Community about their Ideas on how to get more diverse strategies viably impemented and if you moderate the discussion around it the mod will be played even without a 500$ donation for the turnament. This is clearly more work, but at the same time much more influential.
@TLO; I am a big fan, but from my point of view your comment was too toxic and to little constructive. I would expect more personal reflection from a Pro. Do think your comment would have has the same impact on this thread of you has sent it under an anonymus name? However, in my perception it shifted the discussion into a very "I am TLO the pro and all avilo does or sais is bad"-climate.
Back to the ideas of the mod. I like the idea toning down the ultimate power of air based compositions, but i dont think increasing the supply is the best way to do it. I think a few tweaks of some air units are enough. Modifyin all capital ships is just too much.
I think there are either adjustments needed for the Viper and the tempest OR the Accessibility of a strong mech midgame just as powerful and hard hitting as the Bio-midgame needs to be improved. It would maybe even worth considering removing the barracks requirement from the factory.
Or there is be a better way to adjust the infrastructure for Terran unit comps to react to tech switches of the opponent better. Like the tech-reactor that may be introduced as a high tier upgrade to buildings.
I don't like the concept of the adept since they were introduced with LOTV because this unit it the copy of the Marine for the Protoss army and it leaded to balance tweaks around the power of the adept. It should have a different role or should be much harder to use in terms of mechanics involved. Maybe one can think of making the adept more glassy once it shades around by either drastically limit movement of the adept that shades or making them harmless by reduce attackspeed or remove the attack completely from a shading adept.
Mutas will be even more of a problem now though, especially in zvt with the nerfed lib supply cost and with no longer having reduced minerals at each base. Protoss will still have to open stargate.
I think the WP cost was fine it was just the pick range was too much. I think maybe reducing the pick up range to 3 and revert the HP nerf but keep the cost the same.
Carrier nerfs would be fine if you also reverse the HP nerf (or was it the shields that got nerfed? I forgot).
By the way, where are the Ravager changes? Spammable artillery spell at tier 1,5 is broken as fck. Didnt realize TLO is so toxic. He looks like a nice guy, but saying things that something is bad change without even testing it is crazy.
On May 24 2017 04:46 Tryneus wrote: By the way, where are the Ravager changes? Spammable artillery spell at tier 1,5 is broken as fck. Didnt realize TLO is so toxic. He looks like a nice guy, but saying things that something is bad change without even testing it is crazy.
These changes are so fundamentally flawed that they aren't even worth considering let alone testing.
On May 24 2017 04:46 Tryneus wrote: By the way, where are the Ravager changes? Spammable artillery spell at tier 1,5 is broken as fck. Didnt realize TLO is so toxic. He looks like a nice guy, but saying things that something is bad change without even testing it is crazy.
the trolls in these comments are so hilarious. i cant wait to see this tournament actually being played out and everyone will rejoice in the beauty that has unfolded before their eyes :^)
The changes look like solutions to the problems which he faces in the game.
What i want to say is that avilo considered only his point of view and applied his own sense of fairness to create this list of changes. He will probably win many games until someone figures out a new weakness in his playstyle.
Thanks for the tourney. I feel the post SH HOTS era was the best version of sc2, and that this is kind of a throwback to that with some new twists. It looks like Z and P need help for ideal balance (I dont think protoss can beat zerg) but unfortunately the mod probably wont get the play it really needs anyway to settle that. Looking forward to these games
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
That's interesting coming from a player that is supposedly dubbed "creative" and most likely has not even played or tested any of the changes. Like 99% of other people that have commented in the thread. I've read through a lot of your guys thoughts on the changes guys...it seems like everyone that has commented has not actually played any games on the mod.
As for the prizepool, as i made a youtube video about this, and as i commented in the original post here, during the month i was raising money for a potential DH trip i repeatedly said if i did not meet my donation goal for DH i would be using some of the money that i had earned during streaming that month and host a tournament to contribute to the scene.
My own personal bank account and donations i earn while streaming are quite honestly none of your business, i could spend money I have made on my twitch stream however i want. I am a twitch streamer, that's primarily how i make my income - through donations and subscriptions.
Now that we have that out of the way, it would be nice to have a higher prize pool than $500, that would be awesome.
Are you volunteering to donate some of your own hard earned SC2 money to the tournament prize pool TLO? Because as a person in the SC2 community i care about this community, and am willing to put back some of my own hard earned money into the scene and create a tournament like this. Let me know if you want to contribute to the prize pool. Since you care about $$$ so much
Again, most people in the thread commenting about the changes i would recommend you actually load up Starcraft 2 and play the mod before forming an opinion.
I guarantee 99% of the people that keep commenting without having played the mod will be pleasantly surprised at the changes and re-form their opinions.
I also find it really interesting that so many players keep commenting about there being huge buffs to mech units, or huge nerfs to this or that, without having play tested the mod.
Players that want to win the prize in this tournament will be the ones that most quickly adapt to the changes.
I want to re-iterate guys - all of the changes i came up with are focused on toning down mass air compositions across all 3 races through supply increases. Units that are late game stalemate units such as swarmhosts, ravens, vipers, carriers, and tempests have all correspondingly been toned down because they are all related to one another.
People seem to think i made changes to mech units without reading or testing the mod. There are zero changes to mech units on this mod. Every unit's stats are the same, unless you count grounded vikings getting back 1 extra armor while in ground mode. But again, that specific change is another focus of the mod - giving mech a mass producible anti-air unit to prove mech can be made viable with that change alone.
99% of the units have zero changes to statistical values on the mod. The changes i came up with and designed are focused on making things either more accessible or less accessible to all 3 races. The changes are intertwined to the point that a lot of people still are being short sighted in their analysis and not realizing that Protoss gateway/mass robo becomes inherently stronger when all races air power is toned down.
Ground vs ground play with constant trading of armies is going to be much stronger during this tournament. I hope people will start to see that.
But again, the tournament will start this Saturday, so SIGN UP! And PLAY TEST THE MOD BEFORE YOU COMMENT BLINDLY ABOUT IT!
I'm hoping this first tournament will go very well and blow people away and show people how impactful these changes are for gameplay and how much more fun and balanced it makes the game, and i can potentially run another in the future.
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
. There are zero changes to mech units on this mod.
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100. Mech air and ground upgrades re-combined at the armory.
Infernal Pre-igniter upgrade cost reduced to 100/100 from 150/150.
Thor Javelin Missile Launchers damage increased from 6 (+6 vs light) to 12.
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
. There are zero changes to mech units on this mod.
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100. Mech air and ground upgrades re-combined at the armory.
Infernal Pre-igniter upgrade cost reduced to 100/100 from 150/150.
Thor Javelin Missile Launchers damage increased from 6 (+6 vs light) to 12.
Let me clarify- i meant that me personally did not come up with any. The thor change is Blizzard's change that they've continuously put in and out of test map making for a year or two. That was not my change but i do think it was a good one, so i put it on the mod.
The other changes you list change no statistics on any mech unit in the game, their base stats. Those are upgrades. Every mech unit is currently the same as it is on live.
The changes to armory price, blue flame price, and combining mech upgrades all provide more accessibility to mech play without changing anything about mech units. They are simply price cuts on the "start-up costs" of "playing mech."
The sad thing is that someone like avilo makes money on this "personality" he creates around himself of troll/clown/hater who constantly bashes Blizzard and proposes absurd changes on "mech viability" - and the more he gets views and attention the more his stream is successful, the more he makes money. So I don't really see a point for him to have a "balanced game" or anything like that.
A lot of people may watch this tournament just because it can be fun to see something so absurdly out of scope as these changes, but the net effect is that he reaches his goal of making viewers and revenue from a toxic stream which devalue the SC2 community.
As the previous poster pointed out, he's not even consistent between his changes and what he states about them, it's just openly absurd
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
Are you volunteering to donate some of your own hard earned SC2 money to the tournament prize pool TLO? Because as a person in the SC2 community i care about this community, and am willing to put back some of my own hard earned money into the scene and create a tournament like this. Let me know if you want to contribute to the prize pool. Since you care about $$$ so much
No thanks I won't contribute to that abomination you created, If I find the time I rather host my own tournament that I pay for with my own money rather than the donations of the poor souls that for some unfathomable reason decide to still give you money.
On May 24 2017 07:15 Carminedust wrote: What happens if only Zerg and Protoss player sign up for this tournament and we never see the Terran changes come into play ?
If you look at the current bracket (and the changes) I doubt any protoss can make it pass 3nd round.
On May 24 2017 07:15 Carminedust wrote: What happens if only Zerg and Protoss player sign up for this tournament and we never see the Terran changes come into play ?
If you look at the current bracket (and the changes) I doubt any protoss can make it pass 2nd round.
oh wait there is a bracket out already ?!?!? did not know that need to check that out for some giggles
On May 24 2017 07:15 Carminedust wrote: What happens if only Zerg and Protoss player sign up for this tournament and we never see the Terran changes come into play ?
If you look at the current bracket (and the changes) I doubt any protoss can make it pass 2nd round.
oh wait there is a bracket out already ?!?!? did not know that need to check that out for some giggles
The way I see it for PvZ, overcharge energy nerf is huge. Adept cannot kill roaches fast enough. For PvT, same deal and worse, just proxy Barracks on spot and place a half building ebay/bunker near opponent's pylon.
I bow down to great cannon lord printf and wish he prevails against odds.
I am hyped for this tournament! As someone who is not thrilled with the state of the game, I really appreciate the true spirit of the tournament as you stated which is to raise community awareness to the possibility of or support to the idea of making more frequent/significant changes. I am sure there are many who feel the same as I do now, and likely even more former fans who would have agreed to the idea of big dick patches as opposed to little dick patches that take forever to implement.
Ultimately the effort, time and money youve invested into this tournament is an attempt to save the game or make it better. At least that's how i see it, and I hope it is successful
On May 24 2017 04:46 Tryneus wrote: By the way, where are the Ravager changes? Spammable artillery spell at tier 1,5 is broken as fck. Didnt realize TLO is so toxic. He looks like a nice guy, but saying things that something is bad change without even testing it is crazy.
I am going to make my own mod:
Zergling Damage lowered from 5 to 4
Adept Damage changed from 10+12 vs light to 0+12 vs light
I said it the other time already, but you cannot say you are against air play in sc2 and then make vikings so easily attainable. It's still air vs air at this point. Still boring, just easier for terran in your mod.
Also a lot of your changes seem to be incredibly biased towards mech and anything you dislike gets nerfed to death (adepts, sh)
1) Aren't we talking about the two 1-post-accounts in page 2 that contained a very large text praising and defending Avilo and making the EXACT SAME POINTS Avilo do in his streams?
2) Unlike you Avilo, TLO is a professional Starcraft 2 player, you will never be close to the level knowedge any professional player has from the game and if a real professional player states your troll material is useless there is a high chance that said material is actually crap.
3) TLO is praised by the COMMUNITY as a player that can be recognized for his creativity. He never stated he is the most creative porfessionak player in Starcraft 2 (just like you're know for beign a crybaby, flammer, unskilled piece of...)
4) You totally dismissed any other non-Terran matchup in your proposed chages, is evident the sole purpose of this mod is to favor mech and not "balance".
5) You don't need to personally test a giant dildo if you know it will go up your arse to foresee the consequenses of doing it, The same for your claim "but you've not testes it bruhhhh".
6) You're the clown, the rat, the waste of the streamers. Your level of play is not enough to have advaced understandment of the game as this circus shows it, so tell me, how are you smart snough to balance this game?
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
Okay this made me laugh my ass off. TLO coming out hot.
Swarmhost cost increased to 200/150 from 100/75. Swarmhost supply increased to 6. Swarmhost health reduced to 120 from 160. Swarmhost armor tag changed to light. Swarmhost speed off-creep decreased to 2.5 from 4.13. Swarmhost speed on-creep changed to 4.13.
On May 24 2017 10:49 StarscreamG1 wrote: Swarmhost cost increased to 200/150 from 100/75. Swarmhost supply increased to 6. Swarmhost health reduced to 120 from 160. Swarmhost armor tag changed to light. Swarmhost speed off-creep decreased to 2.5 from 4.13. Swarmhost speed on-creep changed to 4.13.
LOL! The unit is OP but come on....LOL
Those changes in particular are extreme on purpose to gut the unit so that hopefully we do not see mass swarmhost games during the tournament if Terrans opt for mech. It's intentionally very harsh and over nerfed.
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
. There are zero changes to mech units on this mod.
Even if some changes seem crazy, personally, I'll enjoy watching this far more than mass adept pro-play. Looking forward to it. Appreciate the effort Avilo, gj!
I find it sad that a meager player such as Avilo has taken it upon himself to do something about the state of this game. Yet, he receives criticism from people such as TLO and other notable players for attempting to do something.
Despite some of these changes being purely insane, at least he is trying to do something. For that I must give him kudos.
To those who criticize someone for doing something they are passionate about, shame on you. You are a fucking joke of a human being to sit there and throw bombs at someone trying to rebuild the house in which you reside. Even if they suck at patching up the leaks, at least they are trying.
As much as these balance changes are mostly awful, I am curious if anyone has actually tried playing the mod to see what it feels like.
For those not playing mech, I'd imagine there are a lot of similarities with the actual game aside from adepts losing a lot of their utility and overcharge being way more costly to use. (And Protoss likely losing to a lot of early game pushes)
Not smart changes. Now Terran can build proxy baracks in midgame, fly it to protoss base and drop freely. Protoss units too slow, and need to use ability to defend...Adepts can't do this , because now they won't even scare terran to fly away...cuzz they will have 40 HEALTH after teleporting....Stalkers vs Bio in 2k17??...
I mean you forgeting to make "mine cant target or kill with splash workers" , "medivac boost will kill himself if loaded with any units" , "tank DMG in splash mode reduced to 0.00000001" and other changes
On May 24 2017 14:00 FarmI3oy wrote: I find it sad that a meager player such as Avilo has taken it upon himself to do something about the state of this game. Yet, he receives criticism from people such as TLO and other notable players for attempting to do something.
Despite some of these changes being purely insane, at least he is trying to do something. For that I must give him kudos.
To those who criticize someone for doing something they are passionate about, shame on you. You are a fucking joke of a human being to sit there and throw bombs at someone trying to rebuild the house in which you reside. Even if they suck at patching up the leaks, at least they are trying.
The state of the game which isn't actually that bad? Which is actually pretty damn good? People who claim that the state of the game is oh so terrible surely can't have been around for the actual bad stuff like BL-Infestor or Hellbat drops or sentry 2 base all-in or they would know better.
First, i will say that while i dont agree with the balance patch, people need to chill out about the amount of the prize pool versus how much he got donated. After all, even without the goal, he would have gotten at least over a 1000worth of donation i believe if we consider the normal amount of donations he gets monthly.
Now that this is out of the way, i have to say these changes are totally imbalanced. ZvP will be super one sided for zerg. But thats not all. I will not speak about tvp , as i dont know the matchup, but i have one question for you avilo:
- How will zerg be able to break a terran that is turtling on 3 bases behind tons of turrets, planetaries, and siege tanks/thors?
Swarm hosts will now be unusable, and with broodlords being 6 supply and so late, plus the fact that they cant dodge seeker missile AND you can now make vikings from factories? Broodlords wont be an answer either.Thors also will do better vs broodlords.
The viper blinding cloud is already not that great anymore for that on live, and you nerfed vipers even more. Lets not even talk about emp. You also made nydus very easy to stop.
Do you expect zerg to attack into planetaries + tanks with roaches and hydras?
I really dont see how zerg would be able to beat mech in those changes, or how protoss will live 10minutes versus zerg.
Im confused...as to how you didnt think you would embarass yourself by putting those changes?
Like i said, nice try..but all this shows is that maybe you dont understand the game as much as you would love... I mean you have been a very 1 sided player focused on one playstyle only for years..and i guess its catching up to you.
ahahahah not only its so terran favored (sayin' this as whiny terran) but these changes are also ridiculous (raven 4 => 2 population while SH goes up to 6 from 4 with speed and cost nerfs xDDD)
Avilo is a name that I have seen mocked on teamliquid several times in the past, and when I have seen posts by him they always show that he deserves to be mocked, but I have never bothered to look into his old posts or threads that he has started to see what the fuss has been about.
After reading this OP I finally get it. Avilo is just a troll that doesn't understand that teamliquid readers don't appreciate trolls aside from the "lets laugh at the village idiot" kind of way.
Either that or he actually thinks this mod is good, in which case he is so self-centered that I think he should see a psychologist about it.
p.s. I am not trying to be snide. I am completely serious.
On May 24 2017 18:23 Twine wrote: ahahahah not only its so terran favored (sayin' this as whiny terran) but these changes are also ridiculous (raven 4 => 2 population while SH goes up to 6 from 4 with speed and cost nerfs xDDD)
he actually increased raven cost from 2 to 4 - among all the crazy stuff that one is somewhat reasonable, although 3 might be better than 2 or 4.
On May 24 2017 14:00 FarmI3oy wrote: I find it sad that a meager player such as Avilo has taken it upon himself to do something about the state of this game. Yet, he receives criticism from people such as TLO and other notable players for attempting to do something.
Despite some of these changes being purely insane, at least he is trying to do something. For that I must give him kudos.
To those who criticize someone for doing something they are passionate about, shame on you. You are a fucking joke of a human being to sit there and throw bombs at someone trying to rebuild the house in which you reside. Even if they suck at patching up the leaks, at least they are trying.
The only thing to give him kudos for is actually holding the tournament. Otherwise, he woulda just been holding onto the 2.7k or w/e it was that was donated to him for a particular reason which was not followed through on. Don't say that such a situation is 'him taking it upon himself to do something about the state of the game' as that is pretty disingenuous. He said himself the money would go to a tournament or some community event if he didn't go to the event. Thus, this is to be expected.
I like the idea of tournament on specific rules / mods. Even more we actually can win some money playing it. Not sure why random people bitching about Avilo spending cash on his tournament rather than traveling to DH. As far as I know he did not gather money required for travel, and anyway he can do whatever he wants with his money.
Some of my thoughts about the balance changes:
Zerg Changes:
Queen anti-air range reduced to 7 from 8
Good change, everyone is tired of zergs defending every king of timing / harras with just queens and lings
Baneling upgrade no longer grants the +5 health. Hydralisk upgrade no longer grants +10 health
Simple revert of blizzard stupid unreasoned changes
Swarmhost cost increased to 200/150 from 100/75. Swarmhost supply increased to 6. Swarmhost health reduced to 120 from 160. Swarmhost armor tag changed to light. Swarmhost speed off-creep decreased to 2.5 from 4.13. Swarmhost speed on-creep changed to 4.13.
Maybe a bit too big nerf, but mostly agree with SH being too strong (saying from protoss perspective), free units killing things are not fun
Corruptor Movement speed reverted to 4.1343 from 4.725. Corruptor caustic spray ability removed from the game.
Good change, corruptors pure AA units killing buildings late game and escaping is stupid
Infestor now longer able to cast fungal from burrow. Infestor still able to cast neural from burrow
I can actually kill infestors now without an required obs / storm.
Nydus worm exits are now targettable while spawning. Nydus worm exits cost reduced to 75/75 from 100/100.
This should be added to the game long time ago, not only to a fan mod ...
Hydralisk cost decreased to 75/50 from 100/50. Lurker cost decreased to 50/50 from 50/100. Lurker den morph time reduced to 43 sec from 86 sec.
Okay here I am scared.Hydra + lurker are pain to fight against right now, making them cheaper will cripple protoss players very badly
Overlord speed upgrade now requires lair tech. Overlord drop upgrade now requires lair tech.
Another change that should be in game dear blizzard ...
Viper abduct cost increased to 125 from 75. Viper blinding cloud cost increased to 125 from 100.
Not sure what so say about this change, maybe spells will be less spammable and require players to regen energy more often, which is kind of good change if u ask me
Broodlord supply increased to 4 from 2.
Too big of a change, Zerg players will be crying out loud about this
Terran Changes:
Reaper grenade removed from the game
I guess this change is to stop reaper allins or smth
Raven supply increased to 4 from 2. Raven auto-turret energy cost increased to 75 from 50. Raven corvid reactor upgrade increases raven starting energy to 125 instead of 75.
Nerf, not sure if needed though
Battlecruiser supply increased to 8 from 6.
Same as above
Liberator supply increased to 4 from 3. Liberator range upgrade removed from the game
I like removing range upgrade, not sure about higher supply cost
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100. Mech air and ground upgrades re-combined at the armory
Revert back to more balanced HotS with slightly cheaper armory
Infernal Pre-igniter upgrade cost reduced to 100/100 from 150/150
Not necessary buff
Hellions can no longer transform to hellbat mode with armory pre-req. Vikings can no longer transform when built from factories/starports. Vikings are now producable from factories. They are able to be produced from reactored factories as well. When produced from a factory vikings come out of the factory in ground mode. Transformation Servos upgraded added to the factory tech lab. Transformation Servos cost 100/100. Transformation Servos takes 43 sec to research. Upon upgrade completion Hellions are now able to transform between Hellbat and Hellion mode freely. Vikings are now able to transform between ground and air mode freely.
This one is very interesting and worth cheking out
Viking base armor when in ground mode is increased by 1.
Vikings in ground mode are thrash anyway, no matter if with upgrades or not, so I guess this buff is minor change
Thor Javelin Missile Launchers damage increased from 6 (+6 vs light) to 12. Thor High Impact Payload Mode Removed from the game.
I dont understand that change, seems the same for me
Protoss Changes:
Mothership core recall energy cost increased to 75 from 50. Mothership core pylon overcharge cost increased to 75 from 50.
Its obviously a nerf, but I dont like hero units like MSC anyway so no matter for me
Mothership core can only overcharge pylons that do not have an enemy building within the pylon's power radius/overcharge range.
Okay this is broken, if I get bunker rushed I cannot defend? This change is too big nerf
Zealot Charge cost reduced to 100/100 from 200/200.
Blizzard change coming next patch I guess
Adept health/shield values changed. Adept health changed to 40. Adept shields changed to 100. When an adept uses the psionic transfer ability, upon completion the adepts shields are reduced to 0. (If the adept shade is cancelled, no shields are lost.)
Interesting change but I would rather have 100 health adepts with 40 shields instead of 100 shields which is gone when shading. I know people are tired of playing vs mass adepts every game every matchup but its too big nerf in a way u propose
Carrier supply cost increased to 8 from 6. Carrier interceptor cost increased to 25.
Same as BC, not necessary change
Tempest health/shields changed to 250/125 from 300/150.
Not understand why nerfing tempests?
Warp prism cost increased to 250 from 200. Warp prism pick-up range reduced to 4 from 5.
Agree with pickup range, disagree with increased cost
Some changes are game breaking and I see why people crying. From my protoss perspective point of view I seeing this mod as big zerg buff, rather than mech buff. Cheaper and faster available hydralisks and lurkers is very very strong. Much stronger than buffed mech that people cry about, not sure why though, I see no buff to mech units besides cheaper upgrades. Mech is easy to stop anyway, with for example immortals archon zealots + drops, mass expanding or other random stuff. I dont understand zerg cry about z vs mech. People dont needed swarmhosts to kill mech before and they dont need them now. I suppose they became more lazy and prefer mass SH strategy to get autowins.
Also I am surprised that TL member pro - TLO, is so salty about fan mod. Looks like he is just jealous about people actually considering playing this tournament or giving random donations to Avilo rather than watching TLO playing huh. If I were a pro and wanted some easy money I would play this tournament (especially as zerg), seems like free win for me
Keep it up Avilo, dont u care about haters and thanks for helping sc2 scene with such tournament initiative.
Thank you for this changes! I feel this mod will unveil true skilled players rather than one-focused-unit-massing players. Although, I would love to see some changes to ZVZ as they are 99% for ling-bane focus. You could supposedly, in ZVZ matches up make larvae produce one zergling instead of two until Lair tech is researched and then it would produce 2 lings.
On May 24 2017 10:49 StarscreamG1 wrote: Swarmhost cost increased to 200/150 from 100/75. Swarmhost supply increased to 6. Swarmhost health reduced to 120 from 160. Swarmhost armor tag changed to light. Swarmhost speed off-creep decreased to 2.5 from 4.13. Swarmhost speed on-creep changed to 4.13.
LOL! The unit is OP but come on....LOL
Those changes in particular are extreme on purpose to gut the unit so that hopefully we do not see mass swarmhost games during the tournament if Terrans opt for mech. It's intentionally very harsh and over nerfed.
Come on, you only nit-pick on a single post at a time, for which you already gave an answer anyway, totally ignoring several relevant ones. You're not even trying.
For instance, you said that changing the armory price and combining the upgrade and so on didn't change any mech unit stat, therefore it does not really affect mech apart for 'simply price cuts on the "start-up costs" of "playing mech."' (see the quote below). + Show Spoiler +
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
. There are zero changes to mech units on this mod.
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100. Mech air and ground upgrades re-combined at the armory.
Infernal Pre-igniter upgrade cost reduced to 100/100 from 150/150.
Thor Javelin Missile Launchers damage increased from 6 (+6 vs light) to 12.
Let me clarify- i meant that me personally did not come up with any. The thor change is Blizzard's change that they've continuously put in and out of test map making for a year or two. That was not my change but i do think it was a good one, so i put it on the mod.
The other changes you list change no statistics on any mech unit in the game, their base stats. Those are upgrades. Every mech unit is currently the same as it is on live.
The changes to armory price, blue flame price, and combining mech upgrades all provide more accessibility to mech play without changing anything about mech units. They are simply price cuts on the "start-up costs" of "playing mech."
So by that logic, which is actually already one thing and its opposite, having: -Zerg melee and range ground upgrade merged -Baneling speed upgrade lowered to 100/100 (instead of 150/150) -Baneling damage changed from 20(+15 light) to 35 is not a totally broken change for ground zerg army, but 'simply price cuts on the "start-up costs" of "playing banelings."?
Also, 'Thor Javelin Missile Launchers damage increased from 6 (+6 vs light)to 12.' is a stat change, despise you stating the contrary twice in a row.
Avilo is basically the George Lucas of SC2. "Hey guys, I made some changes to the old movies HEUHEUHEU", yeah we didn't need to actually see the remakes to know they would be shit.
Is it normal that TLO can just flame as he wants without being warned\suspended? His comments are absolutely toxic and have nothing constructive to do add to this tournament.
Okay, I got to laugh a bit at the actual changes because this would be the most hilarious broken zvp games.
How does protoss hold a two base lurker rush? He doesn't that is how. Zerg would have eighty percent win rate and I'm being catious. Hell, I don't think mech terran could hold that.
But as bad as these are, and they are so bad. I'd like to congratulate Avilo on the effort. We've all whined at some point but avilo went and made a mod, organizes a tourney, that's cool, and shows dedication and effort.
On May 24 2017 23:17 raff100 wrote: Is it normal that TLO can just flame as he wants without being warned\suspended? His comments are absolutely toxic and have nothing constructive to do add to this tournament.
Not sure if serious or just that much of a fanboy. Certainly nothing TLO said could be construed as "toxic" by anyone else
Kind of surprising in my opinion that people expected the full 2.7k to go towards a single tournament. The balance changes aside, it's clear he put time / effort into organizing this. I guess I might feel shafted if I had donated to him for DH Austin, but then again, maybe he will do more of this balance test tournaments in the future, i'm a glass half-full kind of guy i guess
On May 23 2017 17:13 avilo wrote: MSC photon overcharge has been changed. If a pylon has an enemy building within it's power radius, photon overcharge cannot be used. This will put an end to pylon under the ramp cheeses.
This could allow terrans to rush protosses by building an ebay/a supply where they want to attack. The silly situation of the "tower rush with supply buildings" would just be reversed.
On May 23 2017 17:13 avilo wrote: MSC photon overcharge has been changed. If a pylon has an enemy building within it's power radius, photon overcharge cannot be used. This will put an end to pylon under the ramp cheeses.
This could allow terrans to rush protosses by building an ebay/a supply where they want to attack. The silly situation of the "tower rush with supply buildings" would just be reversed.
Yeah I thought of this as well. I hope some of these games are hilariously stupid.
On May 24 2017 14:00 FarmI3oy wrote: I find it sad that a meager player such as Avilo has taken it upon himself to do something about the state of this game. Yet, he receives criticism from people such as TLO and other notable players for attempting to do something.
Despite some of these changes being purely insane, at least he is trying to do something. For that I must give him kudos.
To those who criticize someone for doing something they are passionate about, shame on you. You are a fucking joke of a human being to sit there and throw bombs at someone trying to rebuild the house in which you reside. Even if they suck at patching up the leaks, at least they are trying.
The only reason those 500 dollars even exist is because the community wanted to help Avilo go to Dreamhack. If the donation tag said like, "Pay my bills for the month - goal: $700" far less people would be inclined to donate. But no, it was for a specific purpose, and with the number of people accusing him of being a scammer, he felt pressure to host a tournament. If all the rest of the money was spent on bills and shit, what was he planning before? To go to Dreamhack, then have no money for three months? Come on, you cannot be that stupid.
There's no way Avilo would ever go to Dreamhack as a competitor, because it would force him to admit that some of his shortcomings are actually his own fault. You can't scream, "This guy is stream-cheating! We got ourselves a stream-cheaterino, people." or "This guy is a hacker. Oh my god, he's blatantly hacking. We got ourselves a hackerino, folks, he didn't even scan before moving his units." when the person is sitting across from him. The only thing left to do, therefore, is to rip on the development team at Blizzard, which he has consistently done to compensate for his own inadequacies.
This whole thing allows Avilo to keep a majority of the money and avoid being labelled as a 'scammerino', which should be obvious at this point. He didn't even make the map. He just wrote down a bunch of changes with no consideration to ZvP to buff the fuck out of mech, with the ultimate endgame being that his tournament will draw enough publicity to create a mob that will demand Blizzard change the game, and hopes Blizzard will cave and implement these horribad changes into the game. He's always encouraged his fanbase to spam the battle.net forums demanding that Blizzard change the game, because he's already been banned from the battle.net forum for doing so.
Avilo isn't even "passionate" about SC2. He just isn't good enough at any other game to even be considered competitive, so there's nowhere for him to go. All this talk of "saving esports" is a smoke-screen because he doesn't like the game, and wants to use his fame to bend the community in his favor to make Blizzard change the game to better suit the way he plays. Since he has absolutely no leverage, I can't imagine the developers ever listening to anything he has to say, since he has insulted them viciously. You know, the people who built the "house" you speak of. You know, the people who have put in countless hours to develop and balance the game. And it's easy to think of Blizzard as some nebulous entity, but in reality, there is a team that has an allotted budget, and have to work within the constraints of that budget. That's a reality that Avilo readily ignores to cuss out the people who made the game.
But if you really believe that Avilo is donating 500 dollars out of the goodness of his heart for something he's just so motherfucking passionate about, then I would request that the community give me 5000 dollars so I can also host a 700 dollars tournament. The tournament will take place on a map that I will get someone to make for me, and it will massively alter the gameplay to suit my whims. But please, do it for the community because I've got all this passion and shit.
I could discuss everything in the changes but recombining air and mech attack upgrades and producing vikings from the factory. I'm all for buffing mech AA (which really needs it), but vikings from factories would give mech way too much strength deflecting unscouted air transitions.
it'll be interesting to see if he puts any terms/conditions in writing the next time he does an event fund raiser... or maybe the resulting shit-show and finger-pointing is good for business?
On May 25 2017 05:44 ninazerg wrote: He just isn't good enough at any other game to even be considered competitive, so there's nowhere for him to go.
i heard a rumour on GR.Org that he bought the house he and his parents live in through money he won playing Command & Conquer ( C&C3 , Kane's Wrath, etc). Maybe he can confirm or deny that rumour seeing at its his thread.
On May 24 2017 09:42 KaiserCommander wrote: A series of quick points...
1) Aren't we talking about the two 1-post-accounts in page 2 that contained a very large text praising and defending Avilo and making the EXACT SAME POINTS Avilo do in his streams?
2) Unlike you Avilo, TLO is a professional Starcraft 2 player, you will never be close to the level knowedge any professional player has from the game and if a real professional player states your troll material is useless there is a high chance that said material is actually crap.
3) TLO is praised by the COMMUNITY as a player that can be recognized for his creativity. He never stated he is the most creative porfessionak player in Starcraft 2 (just like you're know for beign a crybaby, flammer, unskilled piece of...)
4) You totally dismissed any other non-Terran matchup in your proposed chages, is evident the sole purpose of this mod is to favor mech and not "balance".
5) You don't need to personally test a giant dildo if you know it will go up your arse to foresee the consequenses of doing it, The same for your claim "but you've not testes it bruhhhh".
6) You're the clown, the rat, the waste of the streamers. Your level of play is not enough to have advaced understandment of the game as this circus shows it, so tell me, how are you smart snough to balance this game?
dont wanna say anything to the changes, because theres allrdy enough said about it also dont wanna talk about avilos intentions for this tournament. maybe its because he dont wanna be labelled as a scammer or whatever, doesnt matter to me. im just really afraid, that this whole tournament will be a bug fest. he played his mod yesterday or so and there were several bugs in it, like the transformation upgrade for vikings didnt work etc.
its really nice to see, that hes making a tournament and im sure, that over 1k people will watch his stream, BUT if you put that much money on the line, you should really make sure, that there are no game breaking bugs in this mod. this needs time, so imo, this tournament should start in maybe around 2-3 weeks and not this weekend, so that it can be tested.
On May 25 2017 07:09 PiGStarcraft wrote: transformation servos doesn't work - you can upgrade it unlimited times and it won't kick in!
Thanks we are fixing this. Darkblizzard aka deathbringer is the one that coded the editor, i think it might be because of the new viking/hellion skins, i'll upload with changes soon. Thanks for pointing it out found out about it yesterday as well, for now try using base viking/hellion skins and it should work.
On May 25 2017 08:14 Charoisaur wrote: ByuN and Solar are signed up. This will be interesting.
Korean Terran in a terran favored patch should go well. Not saying that Byun wouldn't have won otherwise, but I can imagine him just bunker rushing Protoss and going "luls no photon overcharge for you"
Would appreciate if high profile players and others here stop slandering my name. I'm a twitch streamer. I get donations as part of my streaming income. I'm using some of my own income i personally make as a streamer to put up the $500 prize pool myself.
$500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
What i personally do with my bank account or what i do with money i earn from twitch streaming is quite honestly no one's business here. I was very transparent about my twitch DH donation goal and the entire reason for me making this tournament in the first place is to put back some of the money i earned on twitch to the SC2 community.
Honestly you Starcraft people are acting like fucking spoiled brats. SC2 is a dead game comparatively to what it used to be, spending $500 of my income on an SC2 tourney is essentially like burning a pile of cash.
But it is quite a bit, and hopefully the tourney will get a lot of views and prove a point that the game we all know and love can get bigger changes without the game being broken.
There are a lot of good players signed up right now, and i'd encourage people to test the mod, try out the changes, i think this will be a really surprisingly good tournament with great games and the changes put into action will surprise people.
Also, if anyone finds anymore bugs please let me or darkblizzard know. There should be a new version of the mod uploaded tonight that addresses the viking/hellion changes that weren't working.
Also p.s. all the people that quite honestly are saying negative shit about my tournament are part of the symptom and problem of what is wrong with this community. Here and on reddit...anyone that tries to do ANYTHING or make any content, or do ANYTHING for this community basically gets shit on for absolutely no reason. It's no wonder most content creators have left SC2 - the negative fuckfaces keep driving everyone away from this game. Please stop it.
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: Would appreciate if high profile players and others here stop slandering my name. I'm a twitch streamer. I get donations as part of my streaming income. I'm using some of my own income i personally make as a streamer to put up the $500 prize pool myself.
$500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
What i personally do with my bank account or what i do with money i earn from twitch streaming is quite honestly no one's business here. I was very transparent about my twitch DH donation goal and the entire reason for me making this tournament in the first place is to put back some of the money i earned on twitch to the SC2 community.
Honestly you Starcraft people are acting like fucking spoiled brats. SC2 is a dead game comparatively to what it used to be, spending $500 of my income on an SC2 tourney is essentially like burning a pile of cash.
But it is quite a bit, and hopefully the tourney will get a lot of views and prove a point that the game we all know and love can get bigger changes without the game being broken.
There are a lot of good players signed up right now, and i'd encourage people to test the mod, try out the changes, i think this will be a really surprisingly good tournament with great games and the changes put into action will surprise people.
Also, if anyone finds anymore bugs please let me or darkblizzard know. There should be a new version of the mod uploaded tonight that addresses the viking/hellion changes that weren't working.
Also p.s. all the people that quite honestly are saying negative shit about my tournament are part of the symptom and problem of what is wrong with this community. Here and on reddit...anyone that tries to do ANYTHING or make any content, or do ANYTHING for this community basically gets shit on for absolutely no reason. It's no wonder most content creators have left SC2 - the negative fuckfaces keep driving everyone away from this game. Please stop it.
This post says all you need to know about avilo.
In Avilo's world Criticism equals slander Donations to get him to a place he didn't want to go in the first place equals income Anyone who doesn't like the changes to suit him is a "Negative fuckface"
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: Also p.s. all the people that quite honestly are saying negative shit about my tournament are part of the symptom and problem of what is wrong with this community. Here and on reddit...anyone that tries to do ANYTHING or make any content, or do ANYTHING for this community basically gets shit on for absolutely no reason. It's no wonder most content creators have left SC2 - the negative fuckfaces keep driving everyone away from this game. Please stop it.
You've said this several times about SC2. You accuse the community of being negative, and that's why SC2 is declining in popularity.
Yet you fail to realize, which many people here have stated before, content creators don't make SC2 shit because there is more content to create on much better platforms. Also, SC2 is one of, if not the, hardest game to play. Kids don't wanna play a hard game that requires them to look within and find flaws. Hard games mean you will lose sometimes, and that is hard for kids to swallow. So the fucking youth stops playing SC2, and as the years pass we get less blood injected into the system.
Kids aren't watching SC2. They are watching Hearthstone, LoL, Dota2, HotS, OW, Minecraft, etc....
No audience? No content creators!
We have also said countless times that RTS aren't popular games anymore. If they were, Smite would have made an RTS by now. Developers don't want to waste time on a genre that will not make a good ROI. There is a smaller and smaller audience for RTS, thus less attention to SC2.
And you never comment or reply to anyone that brings up these points. Instead, you would rather place blame on a scapegoat.
Balance? Hacker? Stream sniping? That is your trifecta of reasons you lose right?
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: Would appreciate if high profile players and others here stop slandering my name. I'm a twitch streamer. I get donations as part of my streaming income. I'm using some of my own income i personally make as a streamer to put up the $500 prize pool myself.
$500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
What i personally do with my bank account or what i do with money i earn from twitch streaming is quite honestly no one's business here. I was very transparent about my twitch DH donation goal and the entire reason for me making this tournament in the first place is to put back some of the money i earned on twitch to the SC2 community.
Honestly you Starcraft people are acting like fucking spoiled brats. SC2 is a dead game comparatively to what it used to be, spending $500 of my income on an SC2 tourney is essentially like burning a pile of cash.
But it is quite a bit, and hopefully the tourney will get a lot of views and prove a point that the game we all know and love can get bigger changes without the game being broken.
There are a lot of good players signed up right now, and i'd encourage people to test the mod, try out the changes, i think this will be a really surprisingly good tournament with great games and the changes put into action will surprise people.
Also, if anyone finds anymore bugs please let me or darkblizzard know. There should be a new version of the mod uploaded tonight that addresses the viking/hellion changes that weren't working.
Also p.s. all the people that quite honestly are saying negative shit about my tournament are part of the symptom and problem of what is wrong with this community. Here and on reddit...anyone that tries to do ANYTHING or make any content, or do ANYTHING for this community basically gets shit on for absolutely no reason. It's no wonder most content creators have left SC2 - the negative fuckfaces keep driving everyone away from this game. Please stop it.
This post says all you need to know about avilo.
In Avilo's world Criticism equals slander Donations to get him to a place he didn't want to go in the first place equals income Anyone who doesn't like the changes to suit him is a "Negative fuckface"
And he wonders why everyone hates him.
Don't you have fanboys to con?
I'm perfectly happy if people criticize the tournament and offer feedback. If people want to slander me about my own personal earnings from twitch, they should do it in that other thread here on TL that was closed a few weeks ago. It's clear there are just a select few negative people that keep trying to perpetuate the lie that i scammed money from people when that is not the case and it's just a few negative bad apples that want to slander me because they're unhappy that people donate to my twitch stream.
Please keep that shit out of this thread. If you want to criticize the changes that the tournament will be played with, that's fine. Or the tourney format, sure. There's too many people in this thread that are taking away from the positivity of me making this tournament because they personally don't like me. I'm not going to reply further about it as i have a myriad of times, but i'll say again, it's getting really annoying the few negative people that keep trying to slander me on TL and reddit about their own personal discontent for me earning money on twitch and then trying to argue how i should use my own personal bank account.
Avilo...Dude, u banned me from your twitch chat and called stupid fucker and noob just for pointing that Zerg didn't win any premiere tournament for almost year whe you were whining as always that this race is "fucking OP ballshit". Stop making yourself a "white knight of reason". You're acting like kid and demand respect. Now, I know that your act is your job but sometimes u need to calm down and be reasonable.
This mod of yours is just a meme. No one that thinks seriously about sc2 will concider these changes good for balance. But hey, it was nice joke and it will be hilarious to watch people actually trying to play it.
Opening a thread that give avilos name dirt while showing no proof or context that avilo did anything wrong with the money received is WRONG. That thread should have been deleted yet it wasnt. Feels like some mods do the same thing as other people.
Bullying and continuing giving his name a dirt. Exactly what media do, Congratulation- no wonder media can do what they do when people do the same thing.
Some people are different and some are different from the norm. That happens and if you dont get the respond you feel are normal or deserved THEN SO BE IT, MOVE ON. With acceptance we have a better community and world but who cares, right?
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
Since you dont provide any context i will be fast to judge you aswell. Arent you making a balance mod? No wonder then you come here and shit at these patch notes to make your own mod look better. Also didnt you say you were good at SC2? Yet you were terrible.
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: Would appreciate if high profile players and others here stop slandering my name. I'm a twitch streamer. I get donations as part of my streaming income. I'm using some of my own income i personally make as a streamer to put up the $500 prize pool myself.
$500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
What i personally do with my bank account or what i do with money i earn from twitch streaming is quite honestly no one's business here. I was very transparent about my twitch DH donation goal and the entire reason for me making this tournament in the first place is to put back some of the money i earned on twitch to the SC2 community.
Honestly you Starcraft people are acting like fucking spoiled brats. SC2 is a dead game comparatively to what it used to be, spending $500 of my income on an SC2 tourney is essentially like burning a pile of cash.
But it is quite a bit, and hopefully the tourney will get a lot of views and prove a point that the game we all know and love can get bigger changes without the game being broken.
There are a lot of good players signed up right now, and i'd encourage people to test the mod, try out the changes, i think this will be a really surprisingly good tournament with great games and the changes put into action will surprise people.
Also, if anyone finds anymore bugs please let me or darkblizzard know. There should be a new version of the mod uploaded tonight that addresses the viking/hellion changes that weren't working.
Also p.s. all the people that quite honestly are saying negative shit about my tournament are part of the symptom and problem of what is wrong with this community. Here and on reddit...anyone that tries to do ANYTHING or make any content, or do ANYTHING for this community basically gets shit on for absolutely no reason. It's no wonder most content creators have left SC2 - the negative fuckfaces keep driving everyone away from this game. Please stop it.
First off, the fact that you criticize people for being "negative" is quite ironic, because you're very negative. Do you think people like being called names, and are accused of being hackers and cheaters? So please, spare me the speech about how everyone is sOoOoOoOo negative. This is even weirder when you call people who criticize you "fuckfaces" and "fucking spoiled brats", then say SC2 is a "dead game". Criticism of you specifically isn't "driving people away from the game". If people stop playing, it is for other reasons independent of criticism of something you're doing.
Next, some of the criticisms are legitimate. You have not addressed any of the criticism or any of the critiques of the mod. You just go, "If you criticize me, you're hurting SC2, because I'm creating content." and you're so biased against units like Adepts that you don't even consider that you may have made a mistake by taking all of their shields when they shade.
Additionally, I'd have to ask what would happen if you met the 3500 dollar goal. Would you go to Dreamhack and then be broke for the next three months, because in your own words, that's your "income". If that's the case, then you could never afford Dreamhack to begin with. But you put up a banner that said "Send Avilo to Dreamhack Austin" and that motivated people to donate. To go "This money is my regular stream money" is incredibly disingenuous for this reason. I understand if you have rent and shit to pay, but if you went Dreamhack, how did you intend to pay your rent if that was all your fucking money? Your story doesn't make any sense, and you refuse to even attempt to explain it. Maybe there's a reasonable explanation, but you haven't done anything but bring out your persecution complex as a retort to detractors.
I cannot see you being able to maintain a career as a streamer if you take peoples' money under dubious circumstances, then insult them when they call you on it. People ask you, "Why is the tournament 500 dollars when you received 3000?" and you give some bullshit reply like, "I'd love to give 3,000 dollars to a tournament but I'm not a millionaire and don't have money just laying around, but since you all are millionaires, tell me the secret because I'd love to know." Nobody said they were millionaires. They saw you receive 3000 dollars, and see you are hosting a tournament for 500, and you can't give a straight answer as to why. If you bought some clothes or a car or something, just come out and say it. Before you even go, "I had bills to pay, but I guess not everyone knows what that's like." then I would ask you how you intended to pay those bills if you went to Dreamhack.
Moreover, the fact that you have 500 dollars to begin with does not give you impunity when it comes to criticism. You calling 'the community' toxic does nothing to help your cause, especially when you, yourself, have treated people in the community very badly. Failing to address concerns about the mod only reinforces peoples' perception of how you approach interacting with the community. For example, how is a Protoss player supposed to stop a bunker rush? How is Protoss supposed to win PvZ when they already have difficulty dealing with hydras and lurkers in the live version?
But sure, it's the community's fault because a minority of people voiced some opinions you don't like. If you're going to be a dick about this, just keep the 500 dollars. It'll spare everyone the drama.
Im neither a fan nor hater of Avilo. I dont quite understand the judgement of all this donation stuff that people keep throwing at him. As far as I understood he set a donation goal to go to DH which was his normal monthly donation goal (something around 2500$) + an additional 1k$ which would have given him the extra money to afford the trip. He didnt meet the goal and now everyone pretends like every single dollar he got was meant for DH and therefor he cant keep it...If he makes 2k monthly without any special purpose and now he made 2,5k then I believe its fair to say the extra 500$ came from ppl beeing enthusiastic about the possibility of seeing him at DH. This extra money now he gives back in form of this tournament. I just dont quite understand the problem and as much as lots of you hate him I doubt you watch his stream enough to even know how he explained what will happen with the money and what his plans are. I dont know either but from the information this forum gives me I dont understand the hate in this particular matter.
On May 25 2017 18:01 loko822 wrote: Im neither a fan nor hater of Avilo. I dont quite understand the judgement of all this donation stuff that people keep throwing at him. As far as I understood he set a donation goal to go to DH which was his normal monthly donation goal (something around 2500$) + an additional 1k$ which would have given him the extra money to afford the trip. He didnt meet the goal and now everyone pretends like every single dollar he got was meant for DH and therefor he cant keep it...If he makes 2k monthly without any special purpose and now he made 2,5k then I believe its fair to say the extra 500$ came from ppl beeing enthusiastic about the possibility of seeing him at DH. This extra money now he gives back in form of this tournament. I just dont quite understand the problem and as much as lots of you hate him I doubt you watch his stream enough to even know how he explained what will happen with the money and what his plans are. I dont know either but from the information this forum gives me I dont understand the hate in this particular matter.
I am also displeased by the hate thrown at him. Though he is not the type of guy who behaves nicely either doesn't mean everybody gets emotional about him.
I really like his idea to nerf air und buff ground units. The way he explains his ideas sound pretty fair to me. I don't like the bias put against him from the very first moment. Especially from my fellow German team liquid player I would have expected a little more mature behavior.
On May 24 2017 10:49 StarscreamG1 wrote: Swarmhost cost increased to 200/150 from 100/75. Swarmhost supply increased to 6. Swarmhost health reduced to 120 from 160. Swarmhost armor tag changed to light. Swarmhost speed off-creep decreased to 2.5 from 4.13. Swarmhost speed on-creep changed to 4.13.
LOL! The unit is OP but come on....LOL
Those changes in particular are extreme on purpose to gut the unit so that hopefully we do not see mass swarmhost games during the tournament if Terrans opt for mech. It's intentionally very harsh and over nerfed.
Come on, you only nit-pick on a single post at a time, for which you already gave an answer anyway, totally ignoring several relevant ones. You're not even trying.
For instance, you said that changing the armory price and combining the upgrade and so on didn't change any mech unit stat, therefore it does not really affect mech apart for 'simply price cuts on the "start-up costs" of "playing mech."' (see the quote below). + Show Spoiler +
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
. There are zero changes to mech units on this mod.
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100. Mech air and ground upgrades re-combined at the armory.
Infernal Pre-igniter upgrade cost reduced to 100/100 from 150/150.
Thor Javelin Missile Launchers damage increased from 6 (+6 vs light) to 12.
Let me clarify- i meant that me personally did not come up with any. The thor change is Blizzard's change that they've continuously put in and out of test map making for a year or two. That was not my change but i do think it was a good one, so i put it on the mod.
The other changes you list change no statistics on any mech unit in the game, their base stats. Those are upgrades. Every mech unit is currently the same as it is on live.
The changes to armory price, blue flame price, and combining mech upgrades all provide more accessibility to mech play without changing anything about mech units. They are simply price cuts on the "start-up costs" of "playing mech."
So by that logic, which is actually already one thing and its opposite, having: -Zerg melee and range ground upgrade merged -Baneling speed upgrade lowered to 100/100 (instead of 150/150) -Baneling damage changed from 20(+15 light) to 35 is not a totally broken change for ground zerg army, but 'simply price cuts on the "start-up costs" of "playing banelings."?
Also, 'Thor Javelin Missile Launchers damage increased from 6 (+6 vs light)to 12.' is a stat change, despise you stating the contrary twice in a row.
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: Would appreciate if high profile players and others here stop slandering my name. I'm a twitch streamer. I get donations as part of my streaming income. I'm using some of my own income i personally make as a streamer to put up the $500 prize pool myself.
$500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
What i personally do with my bank account or what i do with money i earn from twitch streaming is quite honestly no one's business here. I was very transparent about my twitch DH donation goal and the entire reason for me making this tournament in the first place is to put back some of the money i earned on twitch to the SC2 community.
Honestly you Starcraft people are acting like fucking spoiled brats. SC2 is a dead game comparatively to what it used to be, spending $500 of my income on an SC2 tourney is essentially like burning a pile of cash.
But it is quite a bit, and hopefully the tourney will get a lot of views and prove a point that the game we all know and love can get bigger changes without the game being broken.
There are a lot of good players signed up right now, and i'd encourage people to test the mod, try out the changes, i think this will be a really surprisingly good tournament with great games and the changes put into action will surprise people.
Also, if anyone finds anymore bugs please let me or darkblizzard know. There should be a new version of the mod uploaded tonight that addresses the viking/hellion changes that weren't working.
Also p.s. all the people that quite honestly are saying negative shit about my tournament are part of the symptom and problem of what is wrong with this community. Here and on reddit...anyone that tries to do ANYTHING or make any content, or do ANYTHING for this community basically gets shit on for absolutely no reason. It's no wonder most content creators have left SC2 - the negative fuckfaces keep driving everyone away from this game. Please stop it.
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: Would appreciate if high profile players and others here stop slandering my name. I'm a twitch streamer. I get donations as part of my streaming income. I'm using some of my own income i personally make as a streamer to put up the $500 prize pool myself.
$500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
What i personally do with my bank account or what i do with money i earn from twitch streaming is quite honestly no one's business here. I was very transparent about my twitch DH donation goal and the entire reason for me making this tournament in the first place is to put back some of the money i earned on twitch to the SC2 community.
Honestly you Starcraft people are acting like fucking spoiled brats. SC2 is a dead game comparatively to what it used to be, spending $500 of my income on an SC2 tourney is essentially like burning a pile of cash.
But it is quite a bit, and hopefully the tourney will get a lot of views and prove a point that the game we all know and love can get bigger changes without the game being broken.
There are a lot of good players signed up right now, and i'd encourage people to test the mod, try out the changes, i think this will be a really surprisingly good tournament with great games and the changes put into action will surprise people.
Also, if anyone finds anymore bugs please let me or darkblizzard know. There should be a new version of the mod uploaded tonight that addresses the viking/hellion changes that weren't working.
Also p.s. all the people that quite honestly are saying negative shit about my tournament are part of the symptom and problem of what is wrong with this community. Here and on reddit...anyone that tries to do ANYTHING or make any content, or do ANYTHING for this community basically gets shit on for absolutely no reason. It's no wonder most content creators have left SC2 - the negative fuckfaces keep driving everyone away from this game. Please stop it.
This post says all you need to know about avilo.
In Avilo's world Criticism equals slander Donations to get him to a place he didn't want to go in the first place equals income Anyone who doesn't like the changes to suit him is a "Negative fuckface"
And he wonders why everyone hates him.
Don't you have fanboys to con?
I'm perfectly happy if people criticize the tournament and offer feedback. If people want to slander me about my own personal earnings from twitch, they should do it in that other thread here on TL that was closed a few weeks ago. It's clear there are just a select few negative people that keep trying to perpetuate the lie that i scammed money from people when that is not the case and it's just a few negative bad apples that want to slander me because they're unhappy that people donate to my twitch stream.
Please keep that shit out of this thread. If you want to criticize the changes that the tournament will be played with, that's fine. Or the tourney format, sure. There's too many people in this thread that are taking away from the positivity of me making this tournament because they personally don't like me. I'm not going to reply further about it as i have a myriad of times, but i'll say again, it's getting really annoying the few negative people that keep trying to slander me on TL and reddit about their own personal discontent for me earning money on twitch and then trying to argue how i should use my own personal bank account.
Once again
Donations for something he was never going to or going to put the full amount to in a tournament in the first place are now "My own personal bank account" in avilo's world.
A simple "Yes. I am a conman" would have sufficed.
As for criticizing the changes, we've seen from earlier in the thread that's pointless, because in your world criticism = slander. You're just going to do things your way any way because "I'm avilo, the "savior of esports" so therefore I'm right and everyone else is wrong"
Like I've asked millions of times before without reply. Do you understand why people hate you or has the avilo "character" you play gone so far that you've lost all grip on reality?
How has a tournament announcement thread turned into a huge flame war ?
I like changes like this. I think blizzard should push such radical changes every month. New things keep people excited and the game interesting. You can experiment and it all comes down to who can adapt quickly to a new situation.
On May 25 2017 20:00 Thyriaen wrote: How has a tournament announcement thread turned into a huge flame war ?
I like changes like this. I think blizzard should push such radical changes every month. New things keep people excited and the game interesting. You can experiment and it all comes down to who can adapt quickly to a new situation.
There are a lot of polarizing people in the community.
I personally disagree with radical changes on a monthly basis.
Part of the StarCraft legacy is a stable game with an at least SOMEwhat consistent meta. Big changes for expansions, sure, but once they are released, there are typical minimal changes.
I feel like there big changes that you're yearning for would win any semblance of an enjoyable game.
What if Z becomes over buffed, are you just planning on waiting a month for Blizzard to change it?
Or if Blizzard just feel asleep at the wheel at put in the changes here? Would this really be anything but agony for non mech players? You're fine with basically alienating the vast majority of players because you want to see these kinds of experiments?
These changes are basically a laundry list of what I would expect from someone frustrated by losing to the things that are being nerfed, with a few extra things being thrown in to give it an air of respectability, with no real grounding in reality.
On May 25 2017 20:16 reneg wrote: Part of the StarCraft legacy is a stable game with an at least SOMEwhat consistent meta. Big changes for expansions, sure, but once they are released, there are typical minimal changes.
I can see where you are comming from and a few years ago i would have agreed on that point. I think i feel differently now is because i am dissatisfied with the game at the moment and the course it has taken since HoTs. That is why i feel like drastic changes like this is the only way that could reintroduce interest for me into sc2. Due to those reasons i have switched to bw since the announcement of the remaster and feel like bw is more of a game i had wished sc2 to be, noticing the differences of what sc2 might be missing.
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: $500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
That's fair. I will top up another $300 but that goes directly to prize pool. Not your personal spending. Agreed?
Im actually looking forward to seeing how these balance changes will play out. As a protoss i feel like toss got nerfed too much, but we'll see right? Its not as if these are going straight to ladder.
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: $500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
That's fair. I will top up another $300 but that goes directly to prize pool. Not your personal spending. Agreed?
Not sure if this is a troll account or not. If not...that's awesome, get into touch with me.
LOOOOL I'm lovin it. Huge avilo fan, ever since he pwned the hosts on SOTG when he correctly predicted how shitty the queen range buff was gonna be and lo and behold it ushered in gglord winfestor.
He is the heel of wrestling that everyone loves to hate, and who makes heroes like TLO look even better. Also love the fake 1 post accounts that are defending him, and the dubious ~100 post accounts also defending him and calling TLO toxic. If it weren't for people like avilo generating controversy and drama, the game would've been even more daed. This tourney with a mod that blatantly buffs his playstyle and nerfs all counters, and that doesn't even try to hide how blatant this is, generates tons of interest.
oh and lulz at the people who donated thousands of dollars to his DH trip and get a 500$ tourney, and are rushing to his defense. i'm lovin it!
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: Would appreciate if high profile players and others here stop slandering my name. I'm a twitch streamer. I get donations as part of my streaming income. I'm using some of my own income i personally make as a streamer to put up the $500 prize pool myself.
$500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
What i personally do with my bank account or what i do with money i earn from twitch streaming is quite honestly no one's business here. I was very transparent about my twitch DH donation goal and the entire reason for me making this tournament in the first place is to put back some of the money i earned on twitch to the SC2 community.
Honestly you Starcraft people are acting like fucking spoiled brats. SC2 is a dead game comparatively to what it used to be, spending $500 of my income on an SC2 tourney is essentially like burning a pile of cash.
But it is quite a bit, and hopefully the tourney will get a lot of views and prove a point that the game we all know and love can get bigger changes without the game being broken.
There are a lot of good players signed up right now, and i'd encourage people to test the mod, try out the changes, i think this will be a really surprisingly good tournament with great games and the changes put into action will surprise people.
Also, if anyone finds anymore bugs please let me or darkblizzard know. There should be a new version of the mod uploaded tonight that addresses the viking/hellion changes that weren't working.
Also p.s. all the people that quite honestly are saying negative shit about my tournament are part of the symptom and problem of what is wrong with this community. Here and on reddit...anyone that tries to do ANYTHING or make any content, or do ANYTHING for this community basically gets shit on for absolutely no reason. It's no wonder most content creators have left SC2 - the negative fuckfaces keep driving everyone away from this game. Please stop it.
First off, the fact that you criticize people for being "negative" is quite ironic, because you're very negative. Do you think people like being called names, and are accused of being hackers and cheaters? So please, spare me the speech about how everyone is sOoOoOoOo negative. This is even weirder when you call people who criticize you "fuckfaces" and "fucking spoiled brats", then say SC2 is a "dead game". Criticism of you specifically isn't "driving people away from the game". If people stop playing, it is for other reasons independent of criticism of something you're doing.
Next, some of the criticisms are legitimate. You have not addressed any of the criticism or any of the critiques of the mod. You just go, "If you criticize me, you're hurting SC2, because I'm creating content." and you're so biased against units like Adepts that you don't even consider that you may have made a mistake by taking all of their shields when they shade.
Additionally, I'd have to ask what would happen if you met the 3500 dollar goal. Would you go to Dreamhack and then be broke for the next three months, because in your own words, that's your "income". If that's the case, then you could never afford Dreamhack to begin with. But you put up a banner that said "Send Avilo to Dreamhack Austin" and that motivated people to donate. To go "This money is my regular stream money" is incredibly disingenuous for this reason. I understand if you have rent and shit to pay, but if you went Dreamhack, how did you intend to pay your rent if that was all your fucking money? Your story doesn't make any sense, and you refuse to even attempt to explain it. Maybe there's a reasonable explanation, but you haven't done anything but bring out your persecution complex as a retort to detractors.
I cannot see you being able to maintain a career as a streamer if you take peoples' money under dubious circumstances, then insult them when they call you on it. People ask you, "Why is the tournament 500 dollars when you received 3000?" and you give some bullshit reply like, "I'd love to give 3,000 dollars to a tournament but I'm not a millionaire and don't have money just laying around, but since you all are millionaires, tell me the secret because I'd love to know." Nobody said they were millionaires. They saw you receive 3000 dollars, and see you are hosting a tournament for 500, and you can't give a straight answer as to why. If you bought some clothes or a car or something, just come out and say it. Before you even go, "I had bills to pay, but I guess not everyone knows what that's like." then I would ask you how you intended to pay those bills if you went to Dreamhack.
Moreover, the fact that you have 500 dollars to begin with does not give you impunity when it comes to criticism. You calling 'the community' toxic does nothing to help your cause, especially when you, yourself, have treated people in the community very badly. Failing to address concerns about the mod only reinforces peoples' perception of how you approach interacting with the community. For example, how is a Protoss player supposed to stop a bunker rush? How is Protoss supposed to win PvZ when they already have difficulty dealing with hydras and lurkers in the live version?
But sure, it's the community's fault because a minority of people voiced some opinions you don't like. If you're going to be a dick about this, just keep the 500 dollars. It'll spare everyone the drama.
"I'm the only one making content and trying things to fix the game. Everyone else is flaming me, but I am the only one actually making content." - Avilo
*TLO literally makes his own content, producing his own version of a balance mod with changes he thinks would work*
"TLO is such a saltlord" - Avilo
Super meta in your Youtube video by the way, referring to TLO without actually directly referencing him. All of the matches in the Top 8 will probably be 60 minute TvT mech snorefests, and Avilo will sit on his computer and declare eSports "saved" or whatever nonsense. He'll go celebrate with the 3 grand he kept from his "fundraiser".
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: Would appreciate if high profile players and others here stop slandering my name. I'm a twitch streamer. I get donations as part of my streaming income. I'm using some of my own income i personally make as a streamer to put up the $500 prize pool myself.
$500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
What i personally do with my bank account or what i do with money i earn from twitch streaming is quite honestly no one's business here. I was very transparent about my twitch DH donation goal and the entire reason for me making this tournament in the first place is to put back some of the money i earned on twitch to the SC2 community.
Honestly you Starcraft people are acting like fucking spoiled brats. SC2 is a dead game comparatively to what it used to be, spending $500 of my income on an SC2 tourney is essentially like burning a pile of cash.
But it is quite a bit, and hopefully the tourney will get a lot of views and prove a point that the game we all know and love can get bigger changes without the game being broken.
There are a lot of good players signed up right now, and i'd encourage people to test the mod, try out the changes, i think this will be a really surprisingly good tournament with great games and the changes put into action will surprise people.
Also, if anyone finds anymore bugs please let me or darkblizzard know. There should be a new version of the mod uploaded tonight that addresses the viking/hellion changes that weren't working.
Also p.s. all the people that quite honestly are saying negative shit about my tournament are part of the symptom and problem of what is wrong with this community. Here and on reddit...anyone that tries to do ANYTHING or make any content, or do ANYTHING for this community basically gets shit on for absolutely no reason. It's no wonder most content creators have left SC2 - the negative fuckfaces keep driving everyone away from this game. Please stop it.
First off, the fact that you criticize people for being "negative" is quite ironic, because you're very negative. Do you think people like being called names, and are accused of being hackers and cheaters? So please, spare me the speech about how everyone is sOoOoOoOo negative. This is even weirder when you call people who criticize you "fuckfaces" and "fucking spoiled brats", then say SC2 is a "dead game". Criticism of you specifically isn't "driving people away from the game". If people stop playing, it is for other reasons independent of criticism of something you're doing.
Next, some of the criticisms are legitimate. You have not addressed any of the criticism or any of the critiques of the mod. You just go, "If you criticize me, you're hurting SC2, because I'm creating content." and you're so biased against units like Adepts that you don't even consider that you may have made a mistake by taking all of their shields when they shade.
Additionally, I'd have to ask what would happen if you met the 3500 dollar goal. Would you go to Dreamhack and then be broke for the next three months, because in your own words, that's your "income". If that's the case, then you could never afford Dreamhack to begin with. But you put up a banner that said "Send Avilo to Dreamhack Austin" and that motivated people to donate. To go "This money is my regular stream money" is incredibly disingenuous for this reason. I understand if you have rent and shit to pay, but if you went Dreamhack, how did you intend to pay your rent if that was all your fucking money? Your story doesn't make any sense, and you refuse to even attempt to explain it. Maybe there's a reasonable explanation, but you haven't done anything but bring out your persecution complex as a retort to detractors.
I cannot see you being able to maintain a career as a streamer if you take peoples' money under dubious circumstances, then insult them when they call you on it. People ask you, "Why is the tournament 500 dollars when you received 3000?" and you give some bullshit reply like, "I'd love to give 3,000 dollars to a tournament but I'm not a millionaire and don't have money just laying around, but since you all are millionaires, tell me the secret because I'd love to know." Nobody said they were millionaires. They saw you receive 3000 dollars, and see you are hosting a tournament for 500, and you can't give a straight answer as to why. If you bought some clothes or a car or something, just come out and say it. Before you even go, "I had bills to pay, but I guess not everyone knows what that's like." then I would ask you how you intended to pay those bills if you went to Dreamhack.
Moreover, the fact that you have 500 dollars to begin with does not give you impunity when it comes to criticism. You calling 'the community' toxic does nothing to help your cause, especially when you, yourself, have treated people in the community very badly. Failing to address concerns about the mod only reinforces peoples' perception of how you approach interacting with the community. For example, how is a Protoss player supposed to stop a bunker rush? How is Protoss supposed to win PvZ when they already have difficulty dealing with hydras and lurkers in the live version?
But sure, it's the community's fault because a minority of people voiced some opinions you don't like. If you're going to be a dick about this, just keep the 500 dollars. It'll spare everyone the drama.
That post so deserves a standing ovation gif. Says everything that needs to be said.
On May 26 2017 08:23 fishjie wrote: LOOOOL I'm lovin it. Huge avilo fan, ever since he pwned the hosts on SOTG when he correctly predicted how shitty the queen range buff was gonna be and lo and behold it ushered in gglord winfestor.
He is the heel of wrestling that everyone loves to hate, and who makes heroes like TLO look even better. Also love the fake 1 post accounts that are defending him, and the dubious ~100 post accounts also defending him and calling TLO toxic. If it weren't for people like avilo generating controversy and drama, the game would've been even more daed. This tourney with a mod that blatantly buffs his playstyle and nerfs all counters, and that doesn't even try to hide how blatant this is, generates tons of interest.
oh and lulz at the people who donated thousands of dollars to his DH trip and get a 500$ tourney, and are rushing to his defense. i'm lovin it!
I agree with the controversy part... I miss Idra
Some could at least do a ceremony in someone's face every now and then.
Generally I think things like that are kinda of a "dick" move, but I also can't help but say that it made the scene way more interesting when people had grudges.
First post on TL forums. Yay. However i do not see the problems here.
Avilo - gets alot of shit - its fine, he acts quite badly sometimes. What comes around goes around.
I still find his stream enjoyable(muted that is) and i think he is kinda good at Mech plays. Atleast he gets into GM unlike 99% of the people calling him bad and unable to learn.
About the donations, why do you even care? If he gets $2000 in a month normally. This time he got what? 3k? All he has to do is spend the remaining money on content creation, that is fair no? After all, the guy still needs to eat?
And this is a tournament thread - why make it into a hate post?
Apart from that, i like the idea with the factory Vikings and the removal of underground fungal aswell as the SH changes. I can also see a problem here tho, ability to produce vikings agaist sudden tech switches is to good. Vikings from factory should require a techlab atleast. I also agree that SH is to mcuh of a problem for mech.
The adept nerf, no just no. However i still think the adept shading ontop of your army gameplay is boring and somehow needs a rework. Would be cool to see adepts as the "maurauders" of the protoss gateway units maybe?
The overcharge - why not just make it so its not possible to overcharge a pylon X range from a nexus?
Quite a few of your changes straight up buffs mech and nerfs its counters. Which isnt what anyone wants.
Anyway, i like the initiative. Hope it goes well, and who knows maybe some of the changes are good. People tend to discourage ideas from people they do not like
P.S please dont claim hax in your tournament or mention streamcheats. Id prefer to watch it with sound on. If you are streaming it.
Smurfing is not allowed in this tournament. Sign up under whatever ID you're known as, if you are caught playing under a different ID and win you will not be paid out prize money.
This is to prevent potential cheaters trying to play in the tourney, and other potential problems such as people playing on other accounts that are not theirs, people trying to hide their identity in general to get an unfair advantage, etc.
So again, sign up for this tournament requires you to play and let it be known what your "main" username or account is or whatever you are known in the SC2 community as. If you play in this tourney as a random, end up winning, and then reveal you're "so n so" player, this will qualify as smurfing and you will not be paid out any money and i'll pay out whoever was next in line for the prize money (aka 4th/5th place i'd have play against each other, etc.)
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: $500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
That's fair. I will top up another $300 but that goes directly to prize pool. Not your personal spending. Agreed?
Not sure if this is a troll account or not. If not...that's awesome, get into touch with me.
You should have the money on your paypal account now (including processing fee, paypal takes quite a hefty toll). It's your turn to raise prize pool. Distribution is completely up to you.
On May 23 2017 19:23 Liquid`TLO wrote: These are without a doubt the worst ''balance'' changes I've seen in my life. Also didn't you say you'll do the tournament instead of the money raised for your travel to Austin and Katowice, how come it only has a 500 dollar prizepool?
It seems to me you never actually read the original thread about the topic? Whatever you think about how Avilo handled the situation (I'm not a fan myself) this is not new information.
Also can you please stop your anti Avilo campaign? Coming in here an scream "worst balance changes ever" is not what I expect from someone with your stature tbh.
To make myself clear: In don't like Avilo's style and don't rate his input very high (as high as yours) but I do think he should be treated fairly and I'm not sure the 1-2 into ban when you came into the earlier thread was exactly that.
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: $500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
That's fair. I will top up another $300 but that goes directly to prize pool. Not your personal spending. Agreed?
Not sure if this is a troll account or not. If not...that's awesome, get into touch with me.
You should have the money on your paypal account now (including processing fee, paypal takes quite a hefty toll). It's your turn to raise prize pool. Distribution is completely up to you.
Holy fuck monkeys, just woke up to this notification on twitchalerts xD, you were serious...thank you so much man! Much love, i will update the original post and alter the prize distribution!
Can a mod plz edit the post title with 800$ prizepool xD and i'd appreciate if a mod or someone could help me get the event on the TL calendar -_- there's other tourneys there don't see why this one cna't be as well -_-
Avilo they wont do this because of the simple fact: you represent "changes trend" which most people dont like because they are used to standards via TLO saying "bio is standard, mech is niche" ...
TLO u are nothing more than attention wh***, saying that avilo's balance mod changes are worst u seen in ur life, while on the other day you posting balance mod yourself with half changes simillar or exactly the same as avilos mod ...
I dont care about getting warn or ban here anymore, team liquid has changed from being complete sc2 site where u could discuss strategies or ideas with other community members into some toxic place where pro players who should behave like a pure example to the rest of gamers actually acting like dumbasses
Anyway allowing TLO representing teamliquid is beyond my imagination
Why do you whine about the balance? When you don't have a PTR you need a group of people who you pay to test the balance. And as we know Avilo has tested the balance all by himself.
$2500 is quite a reasonable fee for testing such vast balance changes and doing all this.
On May 25 2017 16:52 ninazerg wrote: First off, the fact that you criticize people for being "negative" is quite ironic, because you're very negative. Do you think people like being called names, and are accused of being hackers and cheaters? So please, spare me the speech about how everyone is sOoOoOoOo negative. This is even weirder when you call people who criticize you "fuckfaces" and "fucking spoiled brats", then say SC2 is a "dead game". Criticism of you specifically isn't "driving people away from the game". If people stop playing, it is for other reasons independent of criticism of something you're doing.
Next, some of the criticisms are legitimate. You have not addressed any of the criticism or any of the critiques of the mod. You just go, "If you criticize me, you're hurting SC2, because I'm creating content." and you're so biased against units like Adepts that you don't even consider that you may have made a mistake by taking all of their shields when they shade.
Additionally, I'd have to ask what would happen if you met the 3500 dollar goal. Would you go to Dreamhack and then be broke for the next three months, because in your own words, that's your "income". If that's the case, then you could never afford Dreamhack to begin with. But you put up a banner that said "Send Avilo to Dreamhack Austin" and that motivated people to donate. To go "This money is my regular stream money" is incredibly disingenuous for this reason. I understand if you have rent and shit to pay, but if you went Dreamhack, how did you intend to pay your rent if that was all your fucking money? Your story doesn't make any sense, and you refuse to even attempt to explain it. Maybe there's a reasonable explanation, but you haven't done anything but bring out your persecution complex as a retort to detractors.
I cannot see you being able to maintain a career as a streamer if you take peoples' money under dubious circumstances, then insult them when they call you on it. People ask you, "Why is the tournament 500 dollars when you received 3000?" and you give some bullshit reply like, "I'd love to give 3,000 dollars to a tournament but I'm not a millionaire and don't have money just laying around, but since you all are millionaires, tell me the secret because I'd love to know." Nobody said they were millionaires. They saw you receive 3000 dollars, and see you are hosting a tournament for 500, and you can't give a straight answer as to why. If you bought some clothes or a car or something, just come out and say it. Before you even go, "I had bills to pay, but I guess not everyone knows what that's like." then I would ask you how you intended to pay those bills if you went to Dreamhack.
Moreover, the fact that you have 500 dollars to begin with does not give you impunity when it comes to criticism. You calling 'the community' toxic does nothing to help your cause, especially when you, yourself, have treated people in the community very badly. Failing to address concerns about the mod only reinforces peoples' perception of how you approach interacting with the community. For example, how is a Protoss player supposed to stop a bunker rush? How is Protoss supposed to win PvZ when they already have difficulty dealing with hydras and lurkers in the live version?
But sure, it's the community's fault because a minority of people voiced some opinions you don't like. If you're going to be a dick about this, just keep the 500 dollars. It'll spare everyone the drama.
You aren't the hero we deserved but the hero we needed.
Say what you want but Avilo is entertaining and passionate about Starcraft 2. Controversy makes cash as we saw it in the past with players like Idra or Destiny (the only difference between these players and Avilo is the class or style) and now it seems this Mod Tourney has a 800$ prizepool and good players like Bly, ByuN, Hyvaa etc
Be positive, this can be a really fun special event to follow. Also, you will never see Avilo crying about nothing when he lose playing Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm, or Brood War. Think about it.
On May 26 2017 20:03 Tryneus wrote: @BlueStar Sc2 lotv s in the most balanced state as never before hurr durr Not sure if troll or just hater ...
What about disappointed troll hater? Disappointed by the lack of reasonable changes by Blizzard Troll because such things should go to the police and such people should not walk away with other peoples money Hater because - avilo does not deserve even part of this attention
On May 26 2017 20:22 gtbex wrote: Say what you want but Avilo is entertaining and passionate about Starcraft 2.
If by "entertaining" you "not at all outside of pathetic comedy act" and by "Passionate about Starcraft 2" you mean "Passionate about conning money out of fanboys who know nothing about Starcraft 2"
Also, you will never see Avilo crying about nothing when he lose playing Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm, or Brood War.
Because that's not where his money is. Look at the numbers when he plays those games, they collapse. No money to be conned out of fanboys there.
TBH, i see a lot of haters, who don't know what they are talking about. Donation - streamer gets money from viewers,(cuz they want to support) and can spend that how the fk he wants. Avilo never says, that if he gets like 3K from 3.5K, he will contribute all that 3K into tournament.... So i dont get it, when some retards and even other top streamer cant understand that. If you right guys, you can blame anyone for not contributing money into this or another game, so be nice, be constructive, u are talking about how Avilo is toxic, but u all toxic as fk. Adept nerf not like you? thats fine, u can do advice, or counter offer. not just "Thats retarded, i dont like it, fu ck this" that not make any sense for me.... Good job Avilo, He spent money from hes earnings for making something good for SC2. Be constructive.. P.S TLO you are a little nerd, jealous person that couldn't make any success in pro level, didnt won any major tournament, and now blaming other streamer for having more viewers, more subs and more $$$.. deal with it. P.S 2 Sorry for bad English, im not from English speaking country! OK?
On May 26 2017 21:54 [ARM]Hybrid wrote: TBH, i see a lot of haters, who don't know what they are talking about. Donation - streamer gets money from viewers,(cuz they want to support) and can spend that how the fk he wants. Avilo never says, that if he gets like 3K from 3.5K, he will contribute all that 3K into tournament.... So i dont get it, when some retards and even other top streamer cant understand that. If you right guys, you can blame anyone for not contributing money into this or another game, so be nice, be constructive, u are talking about how Avilo is toxic, but u all toxic as fk. Adept nerf not like you? thats fine, u can do advice, or counter offer. not just "Thats retarded, i dont like it, fu ck this" that not make any sense for me.... Good job Avilo, He spent money from hes earnings for making something good for SC2. Be constructive.. P.S TLO you are a little nerd, jealous person that couldn't make any success in pro level, didnt won any major tournament, and now blaming other streamer for having more viewers, more subs and more $$$.. deal with it. P.S 2 Sorry for bad English, im not from English speaking country! OK?
1 post account supporting avilo & flaming TLO - color me surprised.
I don't think anyone is saying avilo can't make a mod if he wants to. What they're saying is that a lot of the changes are ridiculous.
he basically removes swarm hosts & adepts from the game, which - since this is a mod - is his prerogative - but without taking into account the fact that Z has no way to really press turtle siege lines (which, unsurprisingly, is his bread and butter) - allows him to drastically increase his winrate as "mech."
The adepts - he removes a lot of usefulness, so now they're slow bad marines (or they're paper tigers that get shredded if someone looks at them, you'll be able to hold off adept harass with a small cadre of SCVs). So now protoss has no real backbone for their army. What do you expect to carry the weight? Zealots? (Which get shredded due to speed and splash) Stalkers? Big low DPS marines.
Imagine, for a second, if you just made tanks take 10 seconds to siege. You could say, "well I'm increasing the strategic depth of the game, now you can't just panic siege all your tanks like people currently do"
Okay - well, you basically made siege tanks worthless.
Or Stim automatically drops all marines & marauders to 15 hp (which is basically what his shade change does - dropping from 40/100 to 40/0). You'd NEVER use stim, because it would absolutely wreck your entire army.
Those two changes are basically what he's doing to Z & P - so that "mech" (which is some weird form of mech that means you can only produce out of factories - if you make units out of barracks or more than a few units out of starports, it apparently doesn't meet this insanely weird standard. Think of what people would say if P players were complaining they couldn't only use robos to build their entire army - they don't want gateway units, or more than a zealot or two, but want to ONLY make robo units. You'd look at them like they're insane).
Anyway, you don't need to be an S level player to understand that a lot of these changes are insane. Just like you don't need to be a 3 star michelin chef to know that burnt food tastes bad.
On May 25 2017 12:00 avilo wrote: $500 is a ton of money for an SC2 tournament, if you don't like the prize pool, please offer to help me find a sponsor for the tourney, or offer to contribute $$$ yourself.
That's fair. I will top up another $300 but that goes directly to prize pool. Not your personal spending. Agreed?
Not sure if this is a troll account or not. If not...that's awesome, get into touch with me.
that's awesome for the extra $300 donation! excited to see this. While I don't agree that when Avilo loses that it's stream sniping or hacking, I do agree that there are definite balance issues that need to be dealt with. Hoping this will show what can be done with some major tweaks to the game!
Why everyone here so angry about avilo? He promised to donors to give it back ?did he promess to make a tournament with the entire donation thing?why people even complain about his balance change? Is avilos mod.im curious how many donors are complaining here.looks like TLO is one of them.otherwise it doesnt make any sense his post.and not im not fan of this noob or supporter,on top of that he is terrible at BW with the best mech there is.
On May 26 2017 21:54 [ARM]Hybrid wrote: TBH, i see a lot of haters, who don't know what they are talking about. Donation - streamer gets money from viewers,(cuz they want to support) and can spend that how the fk he wants. Avilo never says, that if he gets like 3K from 3.5K, he will contribute all that 3K into tournament.... So i dont get it, when some retards and even other top streamer cant understand that. If you right guys, you can blame anyone for not contributing money into this or another game, so be nice, be constructive, u are talking about how Avilo is toxic, but u all toxic as fk. Adept nerf not like you? thats fine, u can do advice, or counter offer. not just "Thats retarded, i dont like it, fu ck this" that not make any sense for me.... Good job Avilo, He spent money from hes earnings for making something good for SC2. Be constructive.. P.S TLO you are a little nerd, jealous person that couldn't make any success in pro level, didnt won any major tournament, and now blaming other streamer for having more viewers, more subs and more $$$.. deal with it. P.S 2 Sorry for bad English, im not from English speaking country! OK?
TLO rank : 42 world. Avilo rank : 300 world.
You may be a huge fan of avilo, but you can't tell us Avilo has more sucess than TLO :
Lets just stop flaming people from both sides, and act like adults? Please? Toxic can only be avoided by not actually acknowledging it.
Can we just watch both of their tournaments and enjoy something that isn't adeptcraft or mass air battles? Both TLO and Avilo are doing good stuff for the game at the moment. These tournaments will show us and the dev team once and for all if SC2 is currently well designed or not. If it isn't, then we might get a better game out of it at the end of the day.
Ontopic
Avilo, Why didn't you just remove the swarmhost and adept shade entirely. TLO's change that makes infested terrans good units again is in my opinion the perfect replacement of the swarm host, with that in the game the swarmhost is obsolete. There is furthermore no actual reason why the adept should be a beefy unit with high dps, and high mobility. No other unit is these 3 things. (Well, I guess an argument can be made for the marauder)
I have only praise for tackling the offensive pylon overcharge though, that stuff is ridiculous. As for the defensive one costing 75 energy. Well, it'd be nice of the mothership core started with that much energy atleast. Protoss really does have problems holding off cheese without pylon overcharge.
Avilo, could you please explain why you've not only made the Adept harass impossible, but also in straight up fights against Terran? You have inadvertently made Ghosts EMP, do the same exact same thing to Adepts as they're shading will. (-100 shields) So, even in the case they don't use Shade, all of their shields can still be removed in an instant by EMP, leaving them with less health than even a marine. The "draw back" of using Shade, once Ghosts are on the field, is not only a lie, but a (hardly) deceptive way of saying "stop using Adepts in any way"
On May 26 2017 21:54 [ARM]Hybrid wrote: TBH, i see a lot of haters, who don't know what they are talking about. Donation - streamer gets money from viewers,(cuz they want to support) and can spend that how the fk he wants. Avilo never says, that if he gets like 3K from 3.5K, he will contribute all that 3K into tournament.... So i dont get it, when some retards and even other top streamer cant understand that. If you right guys, you can blame anyone for not contributing money into this or another game, so be nice, be constructive, u are talking about how Avilo is toxic, but u all toxic as fk. Adept nerf not like you? thats fine, u can do advice, or counter offer. not just "Thats retarded, i dont like it, fu ck this" that not make any sense for me.... Good job Avilo, He spent money from hes earnings for making something good for SC2. Be constructive.. P.S TLO you are a little nerd, jealous person that couldn't make any success in pro level, didnt won any major tournament, and now blaming other streamer for having more viewers, more subs and more $$$.. deal with it. P.S 2 Sorry for bad English, im not from English speaking country! OK?
1 post account supporting avilo & flaming TLO - color me surprised.
I don't think anyone is saying avilo can't make a mod if he wants to. What they're saying is that a lot of the changes are ridiculous.
he basically removes swarm hosts & adepts from the game, which - since this is a mod - is his prerogative - but without taking into account the fact that Z has no way to really press turtle siege lines (which, unsurprisingly, is his bread and butter) - allows him to drastically increase his winrate as "mech."
The adepts - he removes a lot of usefulness, so now they're slow bad marines (or they're paper tigers that get shredded if someone looks at them, you'll be able to hold off adept harass with a small cadre of SCVs). So now protoss has no real backbone for their army. What do you expect to carry the weight? Zealots? (Which get shredded due to speed and splash) Stalkers? Big low DPS marines.
Imagine, for a second, if you just made tanks take 10 seconds to siege. You could say, "well I'm increasing the strategic depth of the game, now you can't just panic siege all your tanks like people currently do"
Okay - well, you basically made siege tanks worthless.
Or Stim automatically drops all marines & marauders to 15 hp (which is basically what his shade change does - dropping from 40/100 to 40/0). You'd NEVER use stim, because it would absolutely wreck your entire army.
Those two changes are basically what he's doing to Z & P - so that "mech" (which is some weird form of mech that means you can only produce out of factories - if you make units out of barracks or more than a few units out of starports, it apparently doesn't meet this insanely weird standard. Think of what people would say if P players were complaining they couldn't only use robos to build their entire army - they don't want gateway units, or more than a zealot or two, but want to ONLY make robo units. You'd look at them like they're insane).
Anyway, you don't need to be an S level player to understand that a lot of these changes are insane. Just like you don't need to be a 3 star michelin chef to know that burnt food tastes bad.
Like what? if it so. every buff means that developers team, or David Kim buffin zerg cuz he wants to increase his winrate? Thats makes no sense, right? so buffs and nerfs making some strats more viable, and not lettig trash players abusing some starts too... like SH, if u think that you cant beat mech without SH, u need to check vipers, broodlords, mass speedlings,mutas,e.t.c.
You cant go mech units and bio units at the same time, like having unit composition combined, cuz there is totaly different tech tree, i mean upgrades, and production, and u cant tell the same about toss, they have combined upgrades, so its viable option to go gateway and robo tech.
People here just throwing shit on Avilo, i didnt see any counter offer, or constructive advice for balance. Its fact that game sucks atm, and need some help.
On May 26 2017 21:54 [ARM]Hybrid wrote: TBH, i see a lot of haters, who don't know what they are talking about. Donation - streamer gets money from viewers,(cuz they want to support) and can spend that how the fk he wants. Avilo never says, that if he gets like 3K from 3.5K, he will contribute all that 3K into tournament.... So i dont get it, when some retards and even other top streamer cant understand that. If you right guys, you can blame anyone for not contributing money into this or another game, so be nice, be constructive, u are talking about how Avilo is toxic, but u all toxic as fk. Adept nerf not like you? thats fine, u can do advice, or counter offer. not just "Thats retarded, i dont like it, fu ck this" that not make any sense for me.... Good job Avilo, He spent money from hes earnings for making something good for SC2. Be constructive.. P.S TLO you are a little nerd, jealous person that couldn't make any success in pro level, didnt won any major tournament, and now blaming other streamer for having more viewers, more subs and more $$$.. deal with it. P.S 2 Sorry for bad English, im not from English speaking country! OK?
TLO rank : 42 world. Avilo rank : 300 world.
You may be a huge fan of avilo, but you can't tell us Avilo has more sucess than TLO :
TLO is better than Avilo, it's a fact.
TLO is better than Avilo in what shape? like what are you comparing now? I was talking about stream, and YES, its FACT, that AVILO have more viewership,more subs, and more income,ITS FACT DUDE, you need to deal with that.in twitch Avilo has more sucess than TLO. i mean TLO rank 42? so what? he is pro player? i dont care, he post toxic and negative shit here. And hes not right, people talkin about Avilo's money like they have give it to him
On May 26 2017 21:54 [ARM]Hybrid wrote: TBH, i see a lot of haters, who don't know what they are talking about. Donation - streamer gets money from viewers,(cuz they want to support) and can spend that how the fk he wants. Avilo never says, that if he gets like 3K from 3.5K, he will contribute all that 3K into tournament.... So i dont get it, when some retards and even other top streamer cant understand that. If you right guys, you can blame anyone for not contributing money into this or another game, so be nice, be constructive, u are talking about how Avilo is toxic, but u all toxic as fk. Adept nerf not like you? thats fine, u can do advice, or counter offer. not just "Thats retarded, i dont like it, fu ck this" that not make any sense for me.... Good job Avilo, He spent money from hes earnings for making something good for SC2. Be constructive.. P.S TLO you are a little nerd, jealous person that couldn't make any success in pro level, didnt won any major tournament, and now blaming other streamer for having more viewers, more subs and more $$$.. deal with it. P.S 2 Sorry for bad English, im not from English speaking country! OK?
TLO rank : 42 world. Avilo rank : 300 world.
You may be a huge fan of avilo, but you can't tell us Avilo has more sucess than TLO :
TLO is better than Avilo, it's a fact.
TLO is better than Avilo in what shape? like what are you comparing now? I was talking about stream, and YES, its FACT, that AVILO have more viewership,more subs, and more income,ITS FACT DUDE, you need to deal with that.in twitch Avilo has more sucess than TLO. i mean TLO rank 42? so what? he is pro player? i dont care, he post toxic and negative shit here. And hes not right, people talkin about Avilo's money like they have give it to him
A reality tv star has more sucess than a nobel price, that doesn't change the fact the nobel price's words are more relevant when we talk about science than what a reality tv star can say about science.
It's the same difference between a streamer of SC2 and a SC2 progamer.
On May 26 2017 21:54 [ARM]Hybrid wrote: TBH, i see a lot of haters, who don't know what they are talking about. Donation - streamer gets money from viewers,(cuz they want to support) and can spend that how the fk he wants. Avilo never says, that if he gets like 3K from 3.5K, he will contribute all that 3K into tournament.... So i dont get it, when some retards and even other top streamer cant understand that. If you right guys, you can blame anyone for not contributing money into this or another game, so be nice, be constructive, u are talking about how Avilo is toxic, but u all toxic as fk. Adept nerf not like you? thats fine, u can do advice, or counter offer. not just "Thats retarded, i dont like it, fu ck this" that not make any sense for me.... Good job Avilo, He spent money from hes earnings for making something good for SC2. Be constructive.. P.S TLO you are a little nerd, jealous person that couldn't make any success in pro level, didnt won any major tournament, and now blaming other streamer for having more viewers, more subs and more $$$.. deal with it. P.S 2 Sorry for bad English, im not from English speaking country! OK?
TLO rank : 42 world. Avilo rank : 300 world.
You may be a huge fan of avilo, but you can't tell us Avilo has more sucess than TLO :
TLO is better than Avilo, it's a fact.
TLO is better than Avilo in what shape? like what are you comparing now? I was talking about stream, and YES, its FACT, that AVILO have more viewership,more subs, and more income,ITS FACT DUDE, you need to deal with that.in twitch Avilo has more sucess than TLO. i mean TLO rank 42? so what? he is pro player? i dont care, he post toxic and negative shit here. And hes not right, people talkin about Avilo's money like they have give it to him
A reality tv star has more sucess than a nobel price, that doesn't change the fact the nobel price's words are more relevant when we talk about science than what a reality tv star can say about science.
It's the same difference between a streamer of SC2 and a SC2 progamer.
Thats for sure m8, i was talking about Avilo, as a streamer, not as progamer. And i was complaining TLO not for beeing pro gamer or something like that, i was talking about his person. So TLO post "Worst balance changes ive seen." and taking like 80% of that changes and maks his own balance mod with that balance changes? Realy? is that what he can? Its not normal guys. im not doing trashtalk about TLO,he is nice guy, good player and good streamer, but hes talking about Avilos money and donations all the time....CMON guys. stttaappphhh this shit. be constructive.
On May 26 2017 21:54 [ARM]Hybrid wrote: TBH, i see a lot of haters, who don't know what they are talking about. Donation - streamer gets money from viewers,(cuz they want to support) and can spend that how the fk he wants. Avilo never says, that if he gets like 3K from 3.5K, he will contribute all that 3K into tournament.... So i dont get it, when some retards and even other top streamer cant understand that. If you right guys, you can blame anyone for not contributing money into this or another game, so be nice, be constructive, u are talking about how Avilo is toxic, but u all toxic as fk. Adept nerf not like you? thats fine, u can do advice, or counter offer. not just "Thats retarded, i dont like it, fu ck this" that not make any sense for me.... Good job Avilo, He spent money from hes earnings for making something good for SC2. Be constructive.. P.S TLO you are a little nerd, jealous person that couldn't make any success in pro level, didnt won any major tournament, and now blaming other streamer for having more viewers, more subs and more $$$.. deal with it. P.S 2 Sorry for bad English, im not from English speaking country! OK?
TLO rank : 42 world. Avilo rank : 300 world.
You may be a huge fan of avilo, but you can't tell us Avilo has more sucess than TLO :
TLO is better than Avilo, it's a fact.
TLO is better than Avilo in what shape? like what are you comparing now? I was talking about stream, and YES, its FACT, that AVILO have more viewership,more subs, and more income,ITS FACT DUDE, you need to deal with that.in twitch Avilo has more sucess than TLO. i mean TLO rank 42? so what? he is pro player? i dont care, he post toxic and negative shit here. And hes not right, people talkin about Avilo's money like they have give it to him
On May 27 2017 04:33 Suchbalancemuchwow wrote: Lets just stop flaming people from both sides, and act like adults? Please? Toxic can only be avoided by not actually acknowledging it.
Can we just watch both of their tournaments and enjoy something that isn't adeptcraft or mass air battles? Both TLO and Avilo are doing good stuff for the game at the moment. These tournaments will show us and the dev team once and for all if SC2 is currently well designed or not. If it isn't, then we might get a better game out of it at the end of the day.
Ontopic
Avilo, Why didn't you just remove the swarmhost and adept shade entirely. TLO's change that makes infested terrans good units again is in my opinion the perfect replacement of the swarm host, with that in the game the swarmhost is obsolete. There is furthermore no actual reason why the adept should be a beefy unit with high dps, and high mobility. No other unit is these 3 things. (Well, I guess an argument can be made for the marauder)
I have only praise for tackling the offensive pylon overcharge though, that stuff is ridiculous. As for the defensive one costing 75 energy. Well, it'd be nice of the mothership core started with that much energy atleast. Protoss really does have problems holding off cheese without pylon overcharge.
On May 27 2017 04:33 Suchbalancemuchwow wrote: Lets just stop flaming people from both sides, and act like adults? Please? Toxic can only be avoided by not actually acknowledging it.
Can we just watch both of their tournaments and enjoy something that isn't adeptcraft or mass air battles? Both TLO and Avilo are doing good stuff for the game at the moment. These tournaments will show us and the dev team once and for all if SC2 is currently well designed or not. If it isn't, then we might get a better game out of it at the end of the day.
Ontopic
Avilo, Why didn't you just remove the swarmhost and adept shade entirely. TLO's change that makes infested terrans good units again is in my opinion the perfect replacement of the swarm host, with that in the game the swarmhost is obsolete. There is furthermore no actual reason why the adept should be a beefy unit with high dps, and high mobility. No other unit is these 3 things. (Well, I guess an argument can be made for the marauder)
I have only praise for tackling the offensive pylon overcharge though, that stuff is ridiculous. As for the defensive one costing 75 energy. Well, it'd be nice of the mothership core started with that much energy atleast. Protoss really does have problems holding off cheese without pylon overcharge.
TLO is doing good stuff for the game
Avilo is just continuing his conman act.
Ok, this is has gone far enough, i'm hoping TL will actually help moderate this cesspool of absolute fucking horseshit that is below TL.net posting standards holy fuck.
Let me know when you want to add $500 of your own money to the prize pool, tired of being slandered in this thread and elsewhere by a few negative people that are upset that i get donations on twitch.tv. DEAL WITH IT.
I do not give a fuck if you do not like me at all, every single person that continuously is posting this idiocy does not deserve to even be a part of the SC2 community. Fucking stop.
Be happy there's people in the community that still want to support the game and make shit happen for SC2.
And this is what happens when TL.net let's one of their own pro players slander someone, lots of other people don't actually look into the facts. Apparently, a lot of other people suddenly think it's ok to too! As posted many times, many youtube videos about it - I AM A TWITCH.TV STREAMER. STREAMERS GET DONATIONS. DONATIONS/SUBSCRIBERS ARE MY OWN INCOME, NOT YOURS OR ANYONE ELSES.
If you are unhappy people donate to me...too fucking bad! I am using my own money as a twitch streamer to fund a fuckin SC2 tournament. Fucking get over it.
People like you and that think like you literally are just a detriment to SC2 as a whole, and a plague here and reddit and everywhere else. IT's why personalities like husky, day9, HDSC, etc etc etc list goes on...don't bother posting or reading reddit or want anything to do with SC2. You can't respect content creators in SC2 and people that want the scene to grow. What you're doing ISN'T FUCKING HELPING.
And then you'll and others will justify it with "YAH GUYS he deserves the hate! He called someone he played on the ladder today trash xD xD xD". Grow up.
The fact is there's a few salty people that simply do not like that it's "avilo" that took the initiative to do something positive for the community. Get over ad hominem and look objectively at what i'm doing and you'll probably realize you are being petty as fuck.
I honestly sometimes wonder if i should just start doing all of the things that i want to do for SC2 under a smurf/new account with TL's permission - so that people can wake up and realize they are being complete and utter asshats for no reason. Maybe it takes anonymity for people to look objectively at things like this.
The fact is, this $800 prizepool tourney for SC2 is happening today, Saturday 2 p.m. EST. It's the first of it's kind in the history of SC2 no tournament has been done like this. It will be really interesting and hopefully be good for the community to spur discussion and hopefully light a fire under Blizzard too that they can be doing more impactful changes.
I'm hoping to be able to collect up all of the replays after the tourney, and discuss the games, cast the games that i didn't get to cast, and talk about what changes worked, what didn't, and then offer all of the feedback to Blizzard so hopefully they can do more for SC2.
I am thinking long term with starting this initiative, and there's potential for follow-up tournaments as well.
On May 27 2017 04:33 Suchbalancemuchwow wrote: Lets just stop flaming people from both sides, and act like adults? Please? Toxic can only be avoided by not actually acknowledging it.
Can we just watch both of their tournaments and enjoy something that isn't adeptcraft or mass air battles? Both TLO and Avilo are doing good stuff for the game at the moment. These tournaments will show us and the dev team once and for all if SC2 is currently well designed or not. If it isn't, then we might get a better game out of it at the end of the day.
Ontopic
Avilo, Why didn't you just remove the swarmhost and adept shade entirely. TLO's change that makes infested terrans good units again is in my opinion the perfect replacement of the swarm host, with that in the game the swarmhost is obsolete. There is furthermore no actual reason why the adept should be a beefy unit with high dps, and high mobility. No other unit is these 3 things. (Well, I guess an argument can be made for the marauder)
I have only praise for tackling the offensive pylon overcharge though, that stuff is ridiculous. As for the defensive one costing 75 energy. Well, it'd be nice of the mothership core started with that much energy atleast. Protoss really does have problems holding off cheese without pylon overcharge.
TLO is doing good stuff for the game
Avilo is just continuing his conman act.
Ok, this is has gone far enough, i'm hoping TL will actually help moderate this cesspool of absolute fucking horseshit that is below TL.net posting standards holy fuck.
Let me know when you want to add $500 of your own money to the prize pool
you are holding this tournament only because it literally isn't "your own money", but the money that was supposed to fund your trip to DH I guess you scammed the donators yourself tho?
I am a casual stream audience watching Avilo from time to time. I am not a hardcore SC2 gamer, so as far as I remember I have no TL post before although I registered a long time ago. But I wanted to share my opinion because I am seeing a serious accusation against a streamer that I like watching from time to time. I subbed to him in the past for a month to support the stream, I am currently not a sub.
I was watching Avilo on and off during that donation time to go to DH and I remember Avilo saying he will go to DH if he reaches the goal and will do a tournament with some of the money if he cannot. And the donation method was very transparent, you send your donation money and the money is Avilo's, there is no money back policy. As far as I know this is a common method among streamers. Some streamers for example use such donation goals to get a new computer.
In the end, Avilo couldn't reach the goal, so he didn't go to DH but instead setup the tournament he promised with some of the money he got from donations. So I am having a really hard time understanding TLO's stance that Avilo scammed his audience and it makes me uncomfortable. And although I stopped following TLO when he switched to Zerg and almost never watched his stream, I had a big respect for him as a SC2 player because of his creative play when he was Terran.
So:
- Saying the method for donations was wrong, that it should have beeen "money back policy" if the goal was not reached - ok, but it would be really hard to do since Avilo was already using donations as an income method, and got donations every day. so finding a method to differentiate usual donations from DH donations is pretty hard
- Saying he wanted more money than he needed - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying the price pool should have been bigger - ok, but remember that he gets donations as a streamer every day regardless of DH, so you cannot expect the whole donation he got during DH month to go to price pool.
- Saying he is toxic - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying the balance changes he makes are bad - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying he is a bad player - ok, arguably he is not one of the best players in sc2 scene looking at ladder ranking and tournament wins, but he is a solid player nevertheless
- Saying he is delusional because he accuses every opponent of cheating - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying he hurts the game because of his behavior - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying he is a scammer - THIS IS NOT OK, this is a serious accusation (and a real world crime) and, as far as I know by watching Avilo a lot and having information about the donation process, a false accusation. And frankly, I lost my respect for TLO after hearing him saying such a thing.
So, you can say a lot of things about Avilo and I would aggree with some of them, but there is a truth that it is appearent that he likes SC very much, he is very committed to the game (he streams SC2 almost every day for a lot of years), he is actively involved with the community and wants to make SC a better game with more audience. So accusing such a contributing player with false statements would ultimately hurt SC2 as a game which needs us to stay together to remain as a popular e-sports game.
Is there a reason I cant find this event in the TL calendar? I mean it has prize money and even if people disagree with the balance changes I'm pretty sure a few are interested in watching it.
On May 27 2017 04:33 Suchbalancemuchwow wrote: Lets just stop flaming people from both sides, and act like adults? Please? Toxic can only be avoided by not actually acknowledging it.
Can we just watch both of their tournaments and enjoy something that isn't adeptcraft or mass air battles? Both TLO and Avilo are doing good stuff for the game at the moment. These tournaments will show us and the dev team once and for all if SC2 is currently well designed or not. If it isn't, then we might get a better game out of it at the end of the day.
Ontopic
Avilo, Why didn't you just remove the swarmhost and adept shade entirely. TLO's change that makes infested terrans good units again is in my opinion the perfect replacement of the swarm host, with that in the game the swarmhost is obsolete. There is furthermore no actual reason why the adept should be a beefy unit with high dps, and high mobility. No other unit is these 3 things. (Well, I guess an argument can be made for the marauder)
I have only praise for tackling the offensive pylon overcharge though, that stuff is ridiculous. As for the defensive one costing 75 energy. Well, it'd be nice of the mothership core started with that much energy atleast. Protoss really does have problems holding off cheese without pylon overcharge.
TLO is doing good stuff for the game
Avilo is just continuing his conman act.
Ok, this is has gone far enough, i'm hoping TL will actually help moderate this cesspool of absolute fucking horseshit that is below TL.net posting standards holy fuck.
Let me know when you want to add $500 of your own money to the prize pool
you are holding this tournament only because it literally isn't "your own money", but the money that was supposed to fund your trip to DH I guess you scammed the donators yourself tho?
But in avilo's world donations that he said would either go to going to Dreamhack or funding a tournament are now his "own personal bank account".
Just like in avilo's world the game is "broken" instead of the truth of him being "terrible"
And in avilo's world he's "saving esports" instead of being "a toxic cancer of the community"
In short, he's a liar, a conman, a cancer and a stain on the community in general. The only "cesspool of absolute fucking horseshit" around is spelt A-V-I-L-O.
But hey you have fans avilo, good for you, keep milking those fanboys there oh great and powerful one. As for the $500 offer. Let me put it this way. Unless you're willing to use the words "I'm avilo and I quit Starcraft 2 forever" on your stream don't hold your breath, I'll use my own money on people that deserve it, in other words, not you.
On May 27 2017 17:43 ZuLuuuuuu wrote: - Saying he is a scammer - THIS IS NOT OK, this is a serious accusation (and a real world crime) and, as far as I know by watching Avilo a lot and having information about the donation process, a false accusation. And frankly, I lost my respect for TLO after hearing him saying such a thing.
Yeah thats what I feel too, people are just too toxic and heated up about avilo.
On May 27 2017 17:43 ZuLuuuuuu wrote: I am a casual stream audience watching Avilo from time to time. I am not a hardcore SC2 gamer, so as far as I remember I have no TL post before although I registered a long time ago. But I wanted to share my opinion because I am seeing a serious accusation against a streamer that I like watching from time to time. I subbed to him in the past for a month to support the stream, I am currently not a sub.
I was watching Avilo on and off during that donation time to go to DH and I remember Avilo saying he will go to DH if he reaches the goal and will do a tournament with some of the money if he cannot. And the donation method was very transparent, you send your donation money and the money is Avilo's, there is no money back policy. As far as I know this is a common method among streamers. Some streamers for example use such donation goals to get a new computer.
In the end, Avilo couldn't reach the goal, so he didn't go to DH but instead setup the tournament he promised with some of the money he got from donations. So I am having a really hard time understanding TLO's stance that Avilo scammed his audience and it makes me uncomfortable. And although I stopped following TLO when he switched to Zerg and almost never watched his stream, I had a big respect for him as a SC2 player because of his creative play when he was Terran.
So:
- Saying the method for donations was wrong, that it should have beeen "money back policy" if the goal was not reached - ok, but it would be really hard to do since Avilo was already using donations as an income method, and got donations every day. so finding a method to differentiate usual donations from DH donations is pretty hard
- Saying he wanted more money than he needed - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying the price pool should have been bigger - ok, but remember that he gets donations as a streamer every day regardless of DH, so you cannot expect the whole donation he got during DH month to go to price pool.
- Saying he is toxic - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying the balance changes he makes are bad - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying he is a bad player - ok, arguably he is not one of the best players in sc2 scene looking at ladder ranking and tournament wins, but he is a solid player nevertheless
- Saying he is delusional because he accuses every opponent of cheating - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying he hurts the game because of his behavior - ok, that's your opinion
- Saying he is a scammer - THIS IS NOT OK, this is a serious accusation (and a real world crime) and, as far as I know by watching Avilo a lot and having information about the donation process, a false accusation. And frankly, I lost my respect for TLO after hearing him saying such a thing.
So, you can say a lot of things about Avilo and I would aggree with some of them, but there is a truth that it is appearent that he likes SC very much, he is very committed to the game (he streams SC2 almost every day for a lot of years), he is actively involved with the community and wants to make SC a better game with more audience. So accusing such a contributing player with false statements would ultimately hurt SC2 as a game which needs us to stay together to remain as a popular e-sports game.
ZuLuuuuuu thx for the post, tottaly agree with you. Respect (btw im from Armenia )
I'd like to commend Avilo for what he's doing here. He's willing to put money where his mouth is, and demonstrate by a tournament if his changes are viable. Even if the changes are really drastic, in the past other community balance mods have been received very positively. Adding something to the game can be only a good thing, it's not like the changes will be applied to ladder.
My input concerning the changes :
Although the intent to favor ground mech over other types of play is pretty clear, some changes go too far and would practically remove some units from the game, which would reduce diversity. I'm thinking about the swarmhost and adept changes, they would simply not get made anymore. The adept change is a good idea though, maybe try something less extreme, like reduce attack and movement speed by 20% during shade cooldown.
Zerg needs a way to deal with mass air and break siege lines, and with Vipers, Corruptors, Broodlords, Swarmhosts, and even Hydras nerfed, they wouldn't stand a change late game against any high tech Terran army.
Terran gains too much adaptability. Merging air and ground mech upgrades and allowing to build Vikings from factories would make ground mech a low risk proposition by allowing quick transition to anti-air with full upgrades in case of enemy air transition. Making a certain type of play fool-proof is a bad idea since that would make it the only viable type of play and thus reduce diversity in the game.
Protoss changes seem more reasonable, except for the adept as said above. The pylon overcharge change is not ideal, in my view it should be limited to pylons that are connected to the energy field of a Nexus, that way their defensive capabilities are maintained but not the abuse potential.
TL gave Avilo the benefit of the doubt after his explanation regarding the way he handled the donations. It's clear some people either just don't agree with this decision or maybe are not fully aware of what reasons TL might have had to come to the conclusion he might actually not have scammed his donators. Either way, it would be nice if new posts would just be about the tournament or the balance changes.
People love to see things in black and white, but there's nothing clear cut about this. His promises were vague and weren't put in writing so it's all a grey area.
He said he wouldn't go to Dreamhack if he didn't make the goal but he didn't say what would happen if he made $1 less. He didn't reach the goal but he did make a substantial amount. He said he would hold a tournament but he didn't say how much he would put towards it. So it's basically just a matter of judgment whether you think he's breached the spirit of what he said he was going to do.
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I'd say he's done about the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest.
On May 27 2017 21:52 Justinian wrote: People love to see things in black and white, but there's nothing clear cut about this. His promises were vague and weren't put in writing so it's all a grey area.
He said he wouldn't go to Dreamhack if he didn't make the goal but he didn't say what would happen if he made $1 less. He didn't reach the goal but he did make a substantial amount. He said he would hold a tournament but he didn't say how much he would put towards it. So it's basically just a matter of judgment whether you think he's breached the spirit of what he said he was going to do.
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I'd say he's done about the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest.
I think that this is a pretty reasonable post.. I've given this drama some thought. I tune into avilo's stream whenever he's on and I'm on the comp or taking a satisfying defecation, Anyways, with that being said, "the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest" is quite fair.
The funny thing is that this tournament is completely VOLUNTARY. The changes are not being applied to general online play and you do not have to enter this tournament if you do not want to.
It is quite ridiculous how indignant and angry people are getting about the changes that Avilo is applying to his own PERSONALLY RUN tournament. If you don't like the changes, don't play, watch, or support the tournament. The aggressive and negative comments aren't helping anyone.
Yes, these balance changes are probably going to exploit some weird and very unbalanced games- but so what? This possibility should be expected by any player entering. The main goal with this type of tournament should be to have fun. And who knows, maybe at the end everyone can agree that one of the changes actually made the game better. Or, if not, we can all laugh about it and say, "at least it was entertaining".
On May 23 2017 22:39 Xamo wrote: May I make some suggestions on balance changes in the same direction?
Zerg balance changes: Drones cannot be built any more. Protoss balance changes: Probes explode 5 seconds after being made. Terran balance changes: Barracks and starports can only make tanks
Tourney check-in is over in 5 minutes, tourney will start shortly after.
Semis/Finals will play tomorrow on Sunday.
/join avilonation on NA server to find your opponent, and upload replays to: avilotourneyreplays@hotmail.com
Would be helpful if someone could put this event on the TL sidebar considering it's an $800.00 tournament. But i don't expect much, i'm sure if TLO tries to run his lil mod tourney that is basically copy pasted from mine we'll see it on the side bar right? xD not really asking for much, this is for SC2.
On May 28 2017 02:55 avilo wrote: Tourney check-in is over in 5 minutes, tourney will start shortly after.
Semis/Finals will play tomorrow on Sunday.
/join avilonation on NA server to find your opponent, and upload replays to: avilotourneyreplays@hotmail.com
Would be helpful if someone could put this event on the TL sidebar considering it's an $800.00 tournament. But i don't expect much, i'm sure if TLO tries to run his lil mod tourney that is basically copy pasted from mine we'll see it on the side bar right? xD not really asking for much, this is for SC2.
Did you submit your tournament? If not I can maybe still ask someone to add it.
On May 28 2017 02:55 avilo wrote: Tourney check-in is over in 5 minutes, tourney will start shortly after.
Semis/Finals will play tomorrow on Sunday.
/join avilonation on NA server to find your opponent, and upload replays to: avilotourneyreplays@hotmail.com
Would be helpful if someone could put this event on the TL sidebar considering it's an $800.00 tournament. But i don't expect much, i'm sure if TLO tries to run his lil mod tourney that is basically copy pasted from mine we'll see it on the side bar right? xD not really asking for much, this is for SC2.
I hope your tournament is enjoyable and people have fun. That being said, there is a 'submit event' option if you click on the 'live events' in the top right.
You would have to submit it, you have all the details. I probably wouldn't expect a mod to submit it for you.
On May 28 2017 02:55 avilo wrote: Tourney check-in is over in 5 minutes, tourney will start shortly after.
Semis/Finals will play tomorrow on Sunday.
/join avilonation on NA server to find your opponent, and upload replays to: avilotourneyreplays@hotmail.com
Would be helpful if someone could put this event on the TL sidebar considering it's an $800.00 tournament. But i don't expect much, i'm sure if TLO tries to run his lil mod tourney that is basically copy pasted from mine we'll see it on the side bar right? xD not really asking for much, this is for SC2.
Did you submit your tournament? If not I can maybe still ask someone to add it.
Thanks hoping can be added for semis/finals tomorrow at least.
On May 28 2017 06:09 Weavel wrote: That ghost idea is pretty funny. No wonder it's made by same guy who did Ghost Finder.
Yep, he makes sick arcade games, and is the guy that coded the map editor changes so hopefully everyone will try his Ghost Finder game and other arcade games as well. They are good.
And on the mod, The Ghost is just walkin around chillin :D
All the bracket is over for today it seems, so semis/finals will all be cast tomorrow 2 p.m. EST. BO5 semis/3rd place and BO7 finals
On May 28 2017 06:01 Flamerz wrote: Any progamer that plays in this tournament mod loses alot of credibility and are desperate for money. Im looking at you SouL and Bly.
To be fair, if you are a lot better than your opponent you will win almost no matter what the balance is. So it is basically free money. And it reduces the intention of the tournament to absurdity.
Zero vikings were built from factories. Most games were standard games. The hydra/lurker changes saw some play, did not break the game at all. The mech changes have virtually zero impact on bio play considering the players that went bio all played standard and have no use for factories besides tanks/mines.
And Protoss in general was under represented mostly due to sign ups. Despite a lot of people signing up, they didn't show up today xD Protoss also seems to be a race that is purely dependent on adepts to be balanced right now from the games that i casted...but also most P forgot how to play the game when not making mass adepts as their entire army.
It was really interesting to see. The only worrisome thing was that i made photon overcharge 75 energy but the MSC still starts at 50. I should have made it start with enough energy for one overcharge.
Aside from that, there was only one mech game played that i saw so far...and the viking change was completely irrelevant because the game ended before mid/late game. But that again, was intended by design. Allowing vikings to be producible from factories is meant for mid/late game to help counter air transitions.
Overall, i think what i can take and what other people can take from the first day...everyone here on TL and reddit, and elsewhere...massively over-reacts to changes that they assumed would imbalance the game solely based off of my personality as a streamer rather than respecting the effort i put in designing the changes to have impact while not breaking the game at all.
If people honestly thought the changes i made were massive in size...then the fact they barely impacted the first day of this tournament should be evidence enough that Blizzard can be doing more than they currently are for SC2 multiplayer. People were in hysteria at some of the things i proposed and tested today - and they showed to not break the game at all or even come into play in many games.
If my changes are classified as "OMGHUGEwill break the game!" then what in the hell do we classify Blizzard -1 adept damage as?
It's evidence that bigger changes can be made without breaking "perfect balance." And again, it's huge evidence for all players that love Protoss out there - the re-work or re-tuning of Protoss that you all massively desire is really quite necessary because there is no Protoss race atm. Protoss = adepts.
I was surprised by the lack of static defense people were making in this mod. I mean you can get your income from a few bases, so you might aswell invest in keeping those positions safe now.
I think the viper in particular requires some extra thought and testing as well. Making hydra's more accesible in ZvT means that you will eventually need vipers to deal with tanks. I can't really say much about the numbers as it stands though. Why did you personally think the old energy numbers weren't high enough?
Future tournament: It'd probably be best to go for a format of showmatches. Perhaps even telling the participants to outright go for long macro games or specific styles. That way we could see if turtling is really easy to do now with the added air supply, etc.
Protoss
It's always been blatant that Protoss needs more identity than solely the adept. I mean it's okay to have a race be centered around a few units like MMM or ling bling muta, but those units are atleast entertaining to play with and watch. The adept much like the old and very strong colossus which protoss relied on in every matchup, is arguably not entertaining.
Claiming the mod is not broken on the first day is a bit of an exaggeration. Like you said, it needs a larger sample size, otherwise using a hyperbole is not an accurate way of delineating day 1.
The review of the balance is hard when your focus jumps around from topic to chat to comedy... which is fine for casting your own things, but as a viewer, we dont need your embellishments to discern for ourselves the value of the end product.
On May 28 2017 08:44 I wasbanned fromthis wrote: Claiming the mod is not broken on the first day is a bit of an exaggeration. Like you said, it needs a larger sample size, otherwise using a hyperbole is not an accurate way of delineating day 1.
The review of the balance is hard when your focus jumps around from topic to chat to comedy... which is fine for casting your own things, but as a viewer, we dont need your embellishments to discern for ourselves the value of the end product.
for what its worth, GJ.
Well, it really was not like everyone and their mother said. 99% of the games were standard, and i did not even see a single viking produced from a factory lol.
I will agree with you though about Protoss like i mentioned earlier. To me, this tourney kind of shows off the fact that Protoss seems to be
a) crippled/handicapped without the adept aka the adept is too strong to the point the entire race balance depends on it b) protoss players are so used to the crutch of making 90% adepts that they did not adapt at all to the changes.
Protoss always uses mass adepts in every army and doesn't know how to play without them? whatever.. let Classic know,.. he isn't getting the message.
as far as this tournament "proving" anything... #1. not enough different levels of players #2.
i don't watch a lot of SC2 and i already know this "its always adepts" is total bullshit. like i said Classic is my counter example... i'm sure guys who watch a lot more Sc2 than i do can come up with lots of other examples.
On May 28 2017 15:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Protoss always uses mass adepts in every army and doesn't know how to play without them? whatever.. let Classic know,.. he isn't getting the message.
i don't watch a lot of SC2 and i already know this "its always adepts" is total bullshit. like i said Classic is my counter example... i'm sure guys who watch a lot more Sc2 than i do can come up with lots of other examples.
The adept seems a MOBA unit and already ruined many pro and amateur tournaments massing that single unit alone.
On May 26 2017 21:54 [ARM]Hybrid wrote: TBH, i see a lot of haters, who don't know what they are talking about. Donation - streamer gets money from viewers,(cuz they want to support) and can spend that how the fk he wants. Avilo never says, that if he gets like 3K from 3.5K, he will contribute all that 3K into tournament.... So i dont get it, when some retards and even other top streamer cant understand that. If you right guys, you can blame anyone for not contributing money into this or another game, so be nice, be constructive, u are talking about how Avilo is toxic, but u all toxic as fk. Adept nerf not like you? thats fine, u can do advice, or counter offer. not just "Thats retarded, i dont like it, fu ck this" that not make any sense for me.... Good job Avilo, He spent money from hes earnings for making something good for SC2. Be constructive.. P.S TLO you are a little nerd, jealous person that couldn't make any success in pro level, didnt won any major tournament, and now blaming other streamer for having more viewers, more subs and more $$$.. deal with it. P.S 2 Sorry for bad English, im not from English speaking country! OK?
TLO rank : 42 world. Avilo rank : 300 world.
You may be a huge fan of avilo, but you can't tell us Avilo has more sucess than TLO :
TLO is better than Avilo, it's a fact.
TLO is better than Avilo in what shape? like what are you comparing now? I was talking about stream, and YES, its FACT, that AVILO have more viewership,more subs, and more income,ITS FACT DUDE, you need to deal with that.in twitch Avilo has more sucess than TLO. i mean TLO rank 42? so what? he is pro player? i dont care, he post toxic and negative shit here. And hes not right, people talkin about Avilo's money like they have give it to him
A reality tv star has more sucess than a nobel price, that doesn't change the fact the nobel price's words are more relevant when we talk about science than what a reality tv star can say about science.
It's the same difference between a streamer of SC2 and a SC2 progamer.
I agree... TLO is better at the game, Avilo is better at twitch..can we just move on....
The fact is, this $800 prizepool tourney for SC2 is happening today, Saturday 2 p.m. EST. It's the first of it's kind in the history of SC2 no tournament has been done like this. It will be really interesting and hopefully be good for the community to spur discussion and hopefully light a fire under Blizzard too that they can be doing more impactful changes.
I'm hoping to be able to collect up all of the replays after the tourney, and discuss the games, cast the games that i didn't get to cast, and talk about what changes worked, what didn't, and then offer all of the feedback to Blizzard so hopefully they can do more for SC2.
I am thinking long term with starting this initiative, and there's potential for follow-up tournaments as well.
I am impressed with the long term plans on reviving this game. Respect.
On May 28 2017 15:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i don't watch a lot of SC2 and i already know this "its always adepts" is total bullshit. like i said Classic is my counter example... i'm sure guys who watch a lot more Sc2 than i do can come up with lots of other examples.
Sadly I must bring your hopes down. I watch really a lot of SC2 and most protoss rely heavily on adepts. Meta is just starting to change a little, but that is just recently. Before Classic was just another adepttoss.
On May 27 2017 21:52 Justinian wrote: People love to see things in black and white, but there's nothing clear cut about this. His promises were vague and weren't put in writing so it's all a grey area.
[...]
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I'd say he's done about the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest.
I think that this is a pretty reasonable post.. I've given this drama some thought. I tune into avilo's stream whenever he's on and I'm on the comp or taking a satisfying defecation, Anyways, with that being said, "the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest" is quite fair.
No, it is not fair to say Avilo did the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest. Stream goals are not met all the time and never ever before was the money returned upon a streaming goal not met. The PayPal costs for this would flat out ruin smaller streamers within a week. Many streamers have a daily, weekly or monthly subscription goal and these are regularly not met. No money is ever returned in such cases. Especially Avilo has a daily subscription goal of $100, which isn't met regularly. Avilo switched his daily subscription goal to a 30 day subscription goal with the promise of going to DH if the goal was met. Avilo's 30 day subscription goal was $500 higher than his usual accumulated subscription goals for that time period.
How people suddenly imply there now would be a money return policy is beyond reason. It is totally arbitrary. The goal was never unreasonably high either, because it has to compensate for his usual donation goals that were replaced by the 30 day DH goal.
I don't see why he hasn't been able to make this point for himself. Maybe he didn't want to reveal his calculations, because it would tell too much about his actual usual income, which includes donations.
This is unbelievably ridiculous and immature from all sides, including TL(O). There has never been a money return policy on donations. They are donations, after all. Of course the donations belong to the receiver once given. We are talking about donations, not stocks or other types of shares or investments that give any form of entitlement. There haven't been any other promises nor practices.
On May 27 2017 21:52 Justinian wrote: People love to see things in black and white, but there's nothing clear cut about this. His promises were vague and weren't put in writing so it's all a grey area.
[...]
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I'd say he's done about the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest.
I think that this is a pretty reasonable post.. I've given this drama some thought. I tune into avilo's stream whenever he's on and I'm on the comp or taking a satisfying defecation, Anyways, with that being said, "the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest" is quite fair.
No, it is not fair to say Avilo did the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest. Stream goals are not met all the time and never ever before was the money returned upon a streaming goal not met. The PayPal costs for this would flat out ruin smaller streamers within a week. Many streamers have a daily, weekly or monthly subscription goal and these are regularly not met. No money is ever returned in such cases. Especially Avilo has a daily subscription goal of $100, which isn't met regularly. Avilo switched his daily subscription goal to a 30 day subscription goal with the promise of going to DH if the goal was met. Avilo's 30 day subscription goal was $500 higher than his usual accumulated subscription goals for that time period.
How people suddenly imply there now would be a money return policy is beyond reason. It is totally arbitrary. The goal was never unreasonably high either, because it has to compensate for his usual donation goals that were replaced by the 30 day DH goal.
I don't see why he hasn't been able to make this point for himself. Maybe he didn't want to reveal his calculations, because it would tell too much about his actual usual income, which includes donations.
This is unbelievably ridiculous and immature from all sides, including TL(O). There has never been a money return policy on donations. They are donations, after all. Of course the donations belong to the receiver once given. We are talking about donations, not stocks or other types of shares or investments that give any form of entitlement. There haven't been any other promises nor practices.
No one ever implied he should give the money back. But to say those saying he's not done "the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest" are wrong is being deliberately ignorant.
For instance ROOTFayth did in the entire thread asking "Is Avilo a Scammer?" said he should give the money back or go to DH. And that is just the first occurrence in that thread.
On May 28 2017 21:20 showstealer1829 wrote: But to say those saying he's not done "the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest" are wrong is being deliberately ignorant.
How so? There was never anything wrong with what he did with his donations and he never went back on any promise. All that was said goes back to people supposedly feeling cheated b/c they didn't get their money back after the donation goal was not met. As said before, those claims are unprecedented, unreasonable and totally arbitrary. Consequently are all voiced suspicions about his honesty, when it comes to promises, goals and donations.
This is not about ignorance. Build cases against him and/or hate him for everything he has been doing and will be doing, I don't mind. But as far as his donations and DH goals are concerned, he didn't scam anybody, he never lied, went back on promises or did anything else remotely out of the ordinary.
Avilo calls everyone with different ideas stupid and dumb. He calls everyone who beats him a hacker or a stream sniper. Why should the community treat him better?
Maybe not everyone was watching when he said he wouldn't fly to dreamhack if he doesn't reach the goal. But how much does a flight and a few days cost? Isn't 3000 dollar enough? I am sure he could have found a solution if he wanted. He could take a room together with other players. There are always people willing to help in the community.
At this point i believe that it was a scam. He didn't attend WCS Austin either, I am convinced that he will never attend a bigger tournament, no matter what he says.
At last i still believe he is good for the community. Look at us we have something to talk. I just wished that we would talk about something relevant.
On May 29 2017 00:35 todespolka wrote: Avilo calls everyone with different ideas stupid and dumb. He calls everyone who beats him a hacker or a stream sniper. Why should the community treat him better?
Maybe not everyone was watching when he said he wouldn't fly to dreamhack if he doesn't reach the goal. But how much does a flight and a few days cost? Isn't 3000 dollar enough? I am sure he could have found a solution if he wanted. He could take a room together with other players. There are always people willing to help in the community.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Public executions welcome. I'm all for that. Call him stuff, stupid, a hacker and stream cheater. Question his reasoning for setting the stream goal to $3500. Talk about his stream persona and in game behavior and skill all you want, but he never even remotely came close to scamming anybody for anything. He was open about everything he ever did from the beginning.
On May 29 2017 00:35 todespolka wrote: Avilo calls everyone with different ideas stupid and dumb. He calls everyone who beats him a hacker or a stream sniper. Why should the community treat him better?
Maybe not everyone was watching when he said he wouldn't fly to dreamhack if he doesn't reach the goal. But how much does a flight and a few days cost? Isn't 3000 dollar enough? I am sure he could have found a solution if he wanted. He could take a room together with other players. There are always people willing to help in the community.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Public executions welcome. I'm all for that. Call him stuff, stupid, a hacker and stream cheater. Question his reasoning for setting the stream goal to $3500. Talk about his stream persona and in game behavior and skill all you want, but he never even remotely came close to scamming anybody for anything. He was open about everything he ever did from the beginning.
If by "Open from the beginning" you mean "Openly lying to people" then yes he was open from the beginning.
But hey if you want to believe the con man then who am I to stop you?
On May 27 2017 21:52 Justinian wrote: People love to see things in black and white, but there's nothing clear cut about this. His promises were vague and weren't put in writing so it's all a grey area.
[...]
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I'd say he's done about the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest.
I think that this is a pretty reasonable post.. I've given this drama some thought. I tune into avilo's stream whenever he's on and I'm on the comp or taking a satisfying defecation, Anyways, with that being said, "the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest" is quite fair.
No, it is not fair to say Avilo did the bare minimum not to be considered dishonest. Stream goals are not met all the time and never ever before was the money returned upon a streaming goal not met. The PayPal costs for this would flat out ruin smaller streamers within a week. Many streamers have a daily, weekly or monthly subscription goal and these are regularly not met. No money is ever returned in such cases. Especially Avilo has a daily subscription goal of $100, which isn't met regularly. Avilo switched his daily subscription goal to a 30 day subscription goal with the promise of going to DH if the goal was met. Avilo's 30 day subscription goal was $500 higher than his usual accumulated subscription goals for that time period.
How people suddenly imply there now would be a money return policy is beyond reason. It is totally arbitrary. The goal was never unreasonably high either, because it has to compensate for his usual donation goals that were replaced by the 30 day DH goal.
I don't see why he hasn't been able to make this point for himself. Maybe he didn't want to reveal his calculations, because it would tell too much about his actual usual income, which includes donations.
This is unbelievably ridiculous and immature from all sides, including TL(O). There has never been a money return policy on donations. They are donations, after all. Of course the donations belong to the receiver once given. We are talking about donations, not stocks or other types of shares or investments that give any form of entitlement. There haven't been any other promises nor practices.
Thanks for posting that. I've said that many times, in many videos, and in many posts here on TL. A few people that personally do not like my stream or me decided a few weeks ago they wanted to go on a slander campaign to attack my streaming income, and then a bunch of known figures decided they wanted to jump on the bandwagon as well to start promoting people to attack me.
Many of those were people that just are anonymous that just saw an opportunity to try to create bad PR for me and it really didn't work. If anything, as usual, they just became advertising tools for me because 99% of the people with common sense in the community know i'm genuinely trying to do something positive for our community.
Anyways, about to cast the semis/3rd place/finals which are all bo5, and finals bo7...lots of games about to come up :D
On May 28 2017 07:34 avilo wrote: So thoughts after day 1:
Zero vikings were built from factories. Most games were standard games. The hydra/lurker changes saw some play, did not break the game at all. The mech changes have virtually zero impact on bio play considering the players that went bio all played standard and have no use for factories besides tanks/mines.
And Protoss in general was under represented mostly due to sign ups. Despite a lot of people signing up, they didn't show up today xD Protoss also seems to be a race that is purely dependent on adepts to be balanced right now from the games that i casted...but also most P forgot how to play the game when not making mass adepts as their entire army.
It was really interesting to see. The only worrisome thing was that i made photon overcharge 75 energy but the MSC still starts at 50. I should have made it start with enough energy for one overcharge.
Aside from that, there was only one mech game played that i saw so far...and the viking change was completely irrelevant because the game ended before mid/late game. But that again, was intended by design. Allowing vikings to be producible from factories is meant for mid/late game to help counter air transitions.
Overall, i think what i can take and what other people can take from the first day...everyone here on TL and reddit, and elsewhere...massively over-reacts to changes that they assumed would imbalance the game solely based off of my personality as a streamer rather than respecting the effort i put in designing the changes to have impact while not breaking the game at all.
If people honestly thought the changes i made were massive in size...then the fact they barely impacted the first day of this tournament should be evidence enough that Blizzard can be doing more than they currently are for SC2 multiplayer. People were in hysteria at some of the things i proposed and tested today - and they showed to not break the game at all or even come into play in many games.
If my changes are classified as "OMGHUGEwill break the game!" then what in the hell do we classify Blizzard -1 adept damage as?
It's evidence that bigger changes can be made without breaking "perfect balance." And again, it's huge evidence for all players that love Protoss out there - the re-work or re-tuning of Protoss that you all massively desire is really quite necessary because there is no Protoss race atm. Protoss = adepts.
Even with 1000s of high-level games and dedicated progamers, some imbalances take months to find and practice, and eventually test vs. refined counterplay.
This tournament will not say much, especially since just playing what you know is generally stronger short term. I remember how some players just ignored the new units when Hearth of the Swarm came out, and still did pretty well!
On May 29 2017 00:35 todespolka wrote: Avilo calls everyone with different ideas stupid and dumb. He calls everyone who beats him a hacker or a stream sniper. Why should the community treat him better?
Maybe not everyone was watching when he said he wouldn't fly to dreamhack if he doesn't reach the goal. But how much does a flight and a few days cost? Isn't 3000 dollar enough? I am sure he could have found a solution if he wanted. He could take a room together with other players. There are always people willing to help in the community.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Public executions welcome. I'm all for that. Call him stuff, stupid, a hacker and stream cheater. Question his reasoning for setting the stream goal to $3500. Talk about his stream persona and in game behavior and skill all you want, but he never even remotely came close to scamming anybody for anything. He was open about everything he ever did from the beginning.
If by "Open from the beginning" you mean "Openly lying to people" then yes he was open from the beginning.
But hey if you want to believe the con man then who am I to stop you?
Look guys, you are accuseing with no evidance. what you mean saying "Openly lying to people"? like WTF? can you bring one example?
Its only your oppinon, that he could go to Austin if he wants to. its your oppinion, fine, keep it to you, dont accuse. read post in the top, about donation goals and e.t.c.... you guys just want to throw shit on Avilos. thats all, you can always find a few reasons for that. Good job i guess. will you go furher ? i dont think so. Be happy that someone putting his own money, for this game... shame on you guys, i think the most of this haters not more than 8 years old..
On May 28 2017 07:34 avilo wrote: So thoughts after day 1:
Zero vikings were built from factories. Most games were standard games. The hydra/lurker changes saw some play, did not break the game at all. The mech changes have virtually zero impact on bio play considering the players that went bio all played standard and have no use for factories besides tanks/mines.
And Protoss in general was under represented mostly due to sign ups. Despite a lot of people signing up, they didn't show up today xD Protoss also seems to be a race that is purely dependent on adepts to be balanced right now from the games that i casted...but also most P forgot how to play the game when not making mass adepts as their entire army.
It was really interesting to see. The only worrisome thing was that i made photon overcharge 75 energy but the MSC still starts at 50. I should have made it start with enough energy for one overcharge.
Aside from that, there was only one mech game played that i saw so far...and the viking change was completely irrelevant because the game ended before mid/late game. But that again, was intended by design. Allowing vikings to be producible from factories is meant for mid/late game to help counter air transitions.
Overall, i think what i can take and what other people can take from the first day...everyone here on TL and reddit, and elsewhere...massively over-reacts to changes that they assumed would imbalance the game solely based off of my personality as a streamer rather than respecting the effort i put in designing the changes to have impact while not breaking the game at all.
If people honestly thought the changes i made were massive in size...then the fact they barely impacted the first day of this tournament should be evidence enough that Blizzard can be doing more than they currently are for SC2 multiplayer. People were in hysteria at some of the things i proposed and tested today - and they showed to not break the game at all or even come into play in many games.
If my changes are classified as "OMGHUGEwill break the game!" then what in the hell do we classify Blizzard -1 adept damage as?
It's evidence that bigger changes can be made without breaking "perfect balance." And again, it's huge evidence for all players that love Protoss out there - the re-work or re-tuning of Protoss that you all massively desire is really quite necessary because there is no Protoss race atm. Protoss = adepts.
Even with 1000s of high-level games and dedicated progamers, some imbalances take months to find and practice, and eventually test vs. refined counterplay.
This tournament will not say much, especially since just playing what you know is generally stronger short term. I remember how some players just ignored the new units when Hearth of the Swarm came out, and still did pretty well!
Not only that, but this tournament didn't really have the highest level of play. Bly was probably one of the highest ranked players here. You're not going to find that big imbalance until the highest foreign level, like if you had Neeb/Showtime/Nerchio/uThermal/Snute playing, then maybe you could speak about balance.
But as it is, there's too small a sample size and too few top tier players to really say that the game is not hugely changed.
Besides, how many high level meching Terrans played in this tournament?
I'd imagine that the imbalances would be even bigger if the top Koreans played this mod.
EDIT: also, with regards to the money,
I see it this way: avilo needs 3500 to go, and he gets 3000 He says he will offer a tournament with some of the money that he would have used to go to Austin
Therefore the tournament prize pool should be equal to money raised (3000) - (whatever minor costs me might incur from doing tournament), but it still means the tournament should have a prize pool of at least 1000-2000 dollars.
It is originally at 500 because avilo needs to cover living exactly expenses.
The problem with this argument is what would have happened if he had raised the money to go? He would have had to forego paying his living expenses assuming most of the money raised was toward Austin (minus some that he might keep).
Thus, his argument that the prize pool is so small because of his living expenses is irrelevant because he would have lost that money anyways going to Austin.
It can only be surmised that
1. either he was not planning on going to Austin at all, 2. he greatly misinterpreted the amount needed to go and to pay his living expenses, 3. or he is making excuses as to why he could not provide a bigger prize pool.
Well, I did try to watch some of it. But in two games you managed to bash the player (because of no gg, but still), and 'all the casters ever', by your own words. Great work.
It's not the best to watch because there is no commentary, Avilo is just talking about himself "saving esports" but no comments on the game.
The bottom-line from this 10min talk I listen is that the changes don't break current balance because a zerg wins 2 out of 3 games: talk about a good statistics
Yea, while I think this could be a cool step forward, bringing in a caster would have been nice. Having well spoken pro/semipro/streamer casting that's not so emotionally invested would make this a lot more watchable.
On May 29 2017 05:01 kaboombaby wrote: Yea, while I think this could be a cool step forward, bringing in a caster would have been nice. Having well spoken pro/semipro/streamer casting that's not so emotionally invested would make this a lot more watchable.
yeah i tried watching it over the course of a couple hours yesterday, and there was "who wouldve guessed it?", hacking allegations & all sorts of other bs, that ate up the majority of that time. When there was a game there were no game sounds & avilos jerky, lets give the audience seizures observing, just made me realize that attempting to watch it was a mistake.
Things like this event are good ideas in my opinion, but without good players & good games, in the end the games mean next to nothing, bcuz you cant make any substantial judgements on the changes. And for me as a viewer the only real entertainment value i found was all the trolling going on in the stream.
On May 29 2017 04:43 VHbb wrote: It's not the best to watch because there is no commentary, Avilo is just talking about himself "saving esports" but no comments on the game.
The bottom-line from this 10min talk I listen is that the changes don't break current balance because a zerg wins 2 out of 3 games: talk about a good statistics
You mean the tournament wasn't about the changes or the players and somehow was all about the great conman himself?
Not a fan of the baneling nerf but the other stuff is interesting. Big changes like all of this needs more time and testing obv, but I hope Blizzard experiment with these and other players similar ideas.
Great tournament with great games, semifinals and the third place match specially.
On May 28 2017 02:55 avilo wrote: Tourney check-in is over in 5 minutes, tourney will start shortly after.
Semis/Finals will play tomorrow on Sunday.
/join avilonation on NA server to find your opponent, and upload replays to: avilotourneyreplays@hotmail.com
Would be helpful if someone could put this event on the TL sidebar considering it's an $800.00 tournament. But i don't expect much, i'm sure if TLO tries to run his lil mod tourney that is basically copy pasted from mine we'll see it on the side bar right? xD not really asking for much, this is for SC2.
On May 30 2017 06:36 KadaverBB wrote: I'm sure TLO's tournament will end up on the sidebar because he will submit it himself or ask the correct people nicely. Shock
That was my bad, never knew people manually could submit tourneys before, though i did ask ages ago with no response xD anyways sorry if i came off rough about that, already was on edge for so many things regarding this tournament considering so many people were attacking me and trying to stop the tourney from happening for no reason whatsoever in the first place :D
On May 30 2017 06:36 KadaverBB wrote: I'm sure TLO's tournament will end up on the sidebar because he will submit it himself or ask the correct people nicely. Shock
That was my bad, never knew people manually could submit tourneys before, though i did ask ages ago with no response xD anyways sorry if i came off rough about that, already was on edge for so many things regarding this tournament considering so many people were attacking me and trying to stop the tourney from happening for no reason whatsoever in the first place :D
Maybe with just a little bit more gentle approach to things in life you would realise that people actually are kind, calm and nice beings. I am sure that if you try to approach problems as this one with just the first sentence below instead of the bold part - you will find out that people will be willing to help you a lot more.... "Would be helpful if someone could put this event on the TL sidebar considering it's an $800.00 tournament. But i don't expect much, i'm sure if TLO tries to run his lil mod tourney that is basically copy pasted from mine we'll see it on the side bar right? xD not really asking for much, this is for SC2."
Being nice instead of playing the victim is the standard way to make people help you. You should try it out.
On May 30 2017 06:36 KadaverBB wrote: I'm sure TLO's tournament will end up on the sidebar because he will submit it himself or ask the correct people nicely. Shock
That was my bad, never knew people manually could submit tourneys before, though i did ask ages ago with no response xD anyways sorry if i came off rough about that, already was on edge for so many things regarding this tournament considering so many people were attacking me and trying to stop the tourney from happening for no reason whatsoever in the first place :D
If only there was a clearly visible button, an easy way to find out about this option, and IRC system to get instant reply to your question or a forum where people could answer that question....
On May 31 2017 05:02 SagasPappa wrote: Im more intrested of the winner Soul21752, he didnt lose one map under the whole tournament, who is this dude for real?
Yeah, they would. Avilo plays T and Z these days and P seems to have the worst deal of the three. Still, we didn't see any of the new stuff abused or anything else OP. So the T and Z changes seem very good. I am hoping for another iteration where P players care about participating in sensible numbers, which means at least the adept needs more love.
On May 31 2017 16:12 QuinnTheEskimo wrote: Yeah, they would. Avilo plays T and Z these days and P seems to have the worst deal of the three. Still, we didn't see any of the new stuff abused or anything else OP. So the T and Z changes seem very good. I am hoping for another iteration where P players care about participating in sensible numbers, which means at least the adept needs more love.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://images.gr-assets.com/books/1168589066l/35491.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/a/iYSo4)
