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[DreamHack] Tours 2015 - Day 1 - Page 144

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
May 08 2015 22:42 GMT
#2861
On May 09 2015 07:38 Thrillz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2015 07:35 TheDwf wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:31 TheAnarchy wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:28 TheDwf wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:26 Elentos wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:25 brickrd wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:23 Elentos wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:23 TheDwf wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:18 Musicus wrote:
Seems like no admin was involved when Hyun recovered the game, he also just chose the time himself.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/35bs3g/dreamhack_fantasy_vs_hyun_game_1_resume/cr308wk

Fantasy should've said no but said yes. Still lost a lot of respect for Hyun, he commited all his roaches into the attack way before the lag started and then just recovered waaaaaaay before that.

I don't think DH is even aware of this.

Yeah, it confirms what I thought. FanTaSy got robbed.

Dreamhack should disqualify HyuN for this tbh. IF it's true.

need explication of rules and procedures and statement about what happened from DH before silly pitchforking

I said IF it's true. Because to be honest it's unacceptable for HyuN to exploit the situation by completely changing his unit movement counteracting mines he didn't know were there in the original fight. At any rate, needs investigation. Someone forward this to our expert.

It's worse than knowing that Mines are there (which were in his sight anyway), it's knowing that he loses the fight if he engages, so he rolls back the game before the engagement that he had chosen


Hyun won fair and straight. Fantasy didnt complaint. Is not like when JD lost to Flash. The game was very tied

No, he didn't win fair and straight. The game should have been reloaded anywhere between 12'12 and 12'15, not at 12'00. HyuN conveniently disengaged himself from a bad decision which would have cost him a lot (and probably the game).


This might of actually cost Fantasy a chance at the finals too looking at the bracket (esp if Rain > Parting).

Well, what would have happened afterwards is left to speculation, but this kind of situation is simply prone to abuse by nature, so I would like to know what procedure is planned in the rules, etc.
Alchemik
Profile Joined March 2014
Poland7124 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-08 22:42:47
May 08 2015 22:42 GMT
#2862
On May 09 2015 07:41 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2015 07:37 stuchiu wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:32 Alchemik wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:32 stuchiu wrote:
Muta base trade is basically a gamble like 3 hatcg/10 pool/gold pool

how is 3 hatch gamble? I guess they could cannon rush?


Its a gamble to me. A good cannon rusher like Classic should shut this down every time.

I stopped 3 hatching after I scout 1 gas core before nexus, I have sangate PDST.
On the other news, while I was gone from this thread I've lost to:
- +2 blink allin that went macro and killed my ultralisk/roach/hydra/brood lord
- failed 8pool into 1 base +1 roaches (yes, next game i drew the same guy and i went 15hatch, he did the same fucking build except now i wasnt ahead to begin with. fucking idiotic ladder 1 trick ponies)
- hellbat banshee bio allin the first ZvT I decided to go upgrades before lair

about the last one, go bane nest first and have 7+ queens ready
Mozdk
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark6989 Posts
May 08 2015 22:42 GMT
#2863
On May 09 2015 07:39 brickrd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2015 07:36 Mozdk wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:34 brickrd wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:32 Mozdk wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:31 stuchiu wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:24 Mozdk wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:23 brickrd wrote:
there's literally nothing left for zerg that actually straight up counters storm other than good positioning and like... ultras, i guess. storm is even decent against broods


So zerg actually have to split now? How fucking fascinating.


Depending on the army, Zerg splitting doesnt do much. Splitting roach hydra viper for instance means you're wasting time not attacking meaning the collosus stalker ball just kills you.


Well vs that army it doesn't. But moving out of storms makes sense. For all races.

not really? see my post, you can't just continually move back against protoss with roach hydra, the longer protoss controls space the stronger they get. the only situation where you outsplit storms with a zerg army is if they have almost nothing buffering, but that's not the case in the zvp meta, it's normally stalker/sentry/immortal/storm, and stalker/sentry/immo is already really good even without storm


So moving 15 roaches out of a storm is not worth it? It's better to suck up the damage to get one more hit in? If you truely believe that, then you need to retake that math class.

it has nothing to do with math and damage values.. as protoss every second you stay alive against a roach/hydra army while teching and producing units you are pulling ahead in the game. that is literally the entire goal of pvz against all lair tech combat units, you buy time until your composition advantage can assert itself. you're a protoss player so clearly you're aware that zone control is the one and only counter to lair tech aggression from zerg. if i max on roaches you just forcefield me until i die and if i pull back i'm wasting time and losing supply efficiency. storms are zone control just like FFs.


Not exactly sure what you mean with zone control dude. Not really a term that's being used. Can you use another word?
"It's really hard to Protoss" - White-Ra |||| "Apedts are dfucking amazing" - Lorning
checkupriv
Profile Joined March 2014
204 Posts
May 08 2015 22:43 GMT
#2864
protossed
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
May 08 2015 22:43 GMT
#2865
This storm meta seems brutal ;x
Neosteel Enthusiast
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55555 Posts
May 08 2015 22:43 GMT
#2866
Sacsri ruined himself a bit there.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
May 08 2015 22:43 GMT
#2867
GG patience
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
May 08 2015 22:43 GMT
#2868
On May 09 2015 07:42 Alchemik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2015 07:41 Ej_ wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:37 stuchiu wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:32 Alchemik wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:32 stuchiu wrote:
Muta base trade is basically a gamble like 3 hatcg/10 pool/gold pool

how is 3 hatch gamble? I guess they could cannon rush?


Its a gamble to me. A good cannon rusher like Classic should shut this down every time.

I stopped 3 hatching after I scout 1 gas core before nexus, I have sangate PDST.
On the other news, while I was gone from this thread I've lost to:
- +2 blink allin that went macro and killed my ultralisk/roach/hydra/brood lord
- failed 8pool into 1 base +1 roaches (yes, next game i drew the same guy and i went 15hatch, he did the same fucking build except now i wasnt ahead to begin with. fucking idiotic ladder 1 trick ponies)
- hellbat banshee bio allin the first ZvT I decided to go upgrades before lair

about the last one, go bane nest first and have 7+ queens ready

i did, had only 4 queens and no detection

so how do you attack protoss on echo?
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
May 08 2015 22:43 GMT
#2869
Holy shit Protoss man.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
May 08 2015 22:44 GMT
#2870
wait ..
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
May 08 2015 22:44 GMT
#2871
I give this fight 0.5/5 Partings
Moderator
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-08 22:47:08
May 08 2015 22:44 GMT
#2872
On May 09 2015 07:31 TheAnarchy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2015 07:28 TheDwf wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:26 Elentos wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:25 brickrd wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:23 Elentos wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:23 TheDwf wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:18 Musicus wrote:
Seems like no admin was involved when Hyun recovered the game, he also just chose the time himself.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/35bs3g/dreamhack_fantasy_vs_hyun_game_1_resume/cr308wk

Fantasy should've said no but said yes. Still lost a lot of respect for Hyun, he commited all his roaches into the attack way before the lag started and then just recovered waaaaaaay before that.

I don't think DH is even aware of this.

Yeah, it confirms what I thought. FanTaSy got robbed.

Dreamhack should disqualify HyuN for this tbh. IF it's true.

need explication of rules and procedures and statement about what happened from DH before silly pitchforking

I said IF it's true. Because to be honest it's unacceptable for HyuN to exploit the situation by completely changing his unit movement counteracting mines he didn't know were there in the original fight. At any rate, needs investigation. Someone forward this to our expert.

It's worse than knowing that Mines are there (which were in his sight anyway), it's knowing that he loses the fight if he engages, so he rolls back the game before the engagement that he had chosen


Hyun won fair and straight. Fantasy didnt complaint. Is not like when JD lost to Flash. The game was very tied


Disagree heavily, Hyun has no right to pause a game and recover it from the point that fits him. Fantasy has also no right to recover a game, so it doesn't matter if he agrees. In any case recovering is only to be used after a disconnect or computer failure, not after a lag.

The HOTS recover game from replay feature will be used in case of a disconnect by technical failure. If for some reason it does not work, see following rule:
If either player disconnects from the game due to technical reasons and the game is heavily favoured to the extent that the game would definitely have been won by one player an administrator may rule the game in favour of said player. Should the game be too close to call, it will be replayed.


Anyway after a pause an admin has to be involved.

If a player must pause the game due to technical difficulties the player must if possible tell the opponent about this before pausing. After pausing the player must inform an administrator.
If a game is paused without a reasonable explanation such as a technical difficulty the game might result in a forfeit.


That's the rule. Hyun has to call an admin, which he did not. He instead recovered the game from a point he chose himself and then abused his knowledge to retreat instead of attacking what was what he originally did.

In no way is that "fair and straight" and Hyun should be punished and I lost a lot of respect for him. Sadly it's way too late now and everything happened without an admin. I don't think DH will do anything about this, so Fantasy is just fucked. Too bad he is too nice and Korean culture forbids him from saying anything against the older Hyun and he just went along with it.

http://open.dreamhack.se/page/2015-starcraft-ruleset/
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
May 08 2015 22:44 GMT
#2873
On May 09 2015 07:42 Mozdk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2015 07:39 brickrd wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:36 Mozdk wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:34 brickrd wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:32 Mozdk wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:31 stuchiu wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:24 Mozdk wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:23 brickrd wrote:
there's literally nothing left for zerg that actually straight up counters storm other than good positioning and like... ultras, i guess. storm is even decent against broods


So zerg actually have to split now? How fucking fascinating.


Depending on the army, Zerg splitting doesnt do much. Splitting roach hydra viper for instance means you're wasting time not attacking meaning the collosus stalker ball just kills you.


Well vs that army it doesn't. But moving out of storms makes sense. For all races.

not really? see my post, you can't just continually move back against protoss with roach hydra, the longer protoss controls space the stronger they get. the only situation where you outsplit storms with a zerg army is if they have almost nothing buffering, but that's not the case in the zvp meta, it's normally stalker/sentry/immortal/storm, and stalker/sentry/immo is already really good even without storm


So moving 15 roaches out of a storm is not worth it? It's better to suck up the damage to get one more hit in? If you truely believe that, then you need to retake that math class.

it has nothing to do with math and damage values.. as protoss every second you stay alive against a roach/hydra army while teching and producing units you are pulling ahead in the game. that is literally the entire goal of pvz against all lair tech combat units, you buy time until your composition advantage can assert itself. you're a protoss player so clearly you're aware that zone control is the one and only counter to lair tech aggression from zerg. if i max on roaches you just forcefield me until i die and if i pull back i'm wasting time and losing supply efficiency. storms are zone control just like FFs.


Not exactly sure what you mean with zone control dude. Not really a term that's being used. Can you use another word?

sorry but what is there to explain? it's basic english? a zone is an area, an area of the map. you control an area of the map by forcefielding to block movement, storms also block movement by forcing zerg units not to engage directly without taking severe damage
TL+ Member
polpot
Profile Joined April 2012
3002 Posts
May 08 2015 22:44 GMT
#2874
Patience pulling the girls :D
Mozdk
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark6989 Posts
May 08 2015 22:44 GMT
#2875
On May 09 2015 07:34 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2015 07:32 Mozdk wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:31 stuchiu wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:24 Mozdk wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:23 brickrd wrote:
there's literally nothing left for zerg that actually straight up counters storm other than good positioning and like... ultras, i guess. storm is even decent against broods


So zerg actually have to split now? How fucking fascinating.


Depending on the army, Zerg splitting doesnt do much. Splitting roach hydra viper for instance means you're wasting time not attacking meaning the collosus stalker ball just kills you.


Well vs that army it doesn't. But moving out of storms makes sense. For all races.


In this particular case Sacsri had Roach BL infestor against collosus stalker HT. If he splits from storms, the stalkers get free snipes on the BL. If you do that you may as well just give up the game. I don't think Sacsri should have fought at all to be honest. Should have trade out his roaches for a million queens on the ground.


There was no splitting possible in that engagement. Firstly the fight was in a narrow space, where Sacsri had nowhere to split to... And pulling back ment gg broods. The comment was a generel note...And also mainly ment to be amusing.
"It's really hard to Protoss" - White-Ra |||| "Apedts are dfucking amazing" - Lorning
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
May 08 2015 22:44 GMT
#2876
and boom thrown
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55555 Posts
May 08 2015 22:44 GMT
#2877
Well nevermind Patience gifted him the game.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
TheAnarchy
Profile Joined January 2010
Chile1105 Posts
May 08 2015 22:44 GMT
#2878
Patience pulling the boys??
Alchemik
Profile Joined March 2014
Poland7124 Posts
May 08 2015 22:44 GMT
#2879
On May 09 2015 07:43 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2015 07:42 Alchemik wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:41 Ej_ wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:37 stuchiu wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:32 Alchemik wrote:
On May 09 2015 07:32 stuchiu wrote:
Muta base trade is basically a gamble like 3 hatcg/10 pool/gold pool

how is 3 hatch gamble? I guess they could cannon rush?


Its a gamble to me. A good cannon rusher like Classic should shut this down every time.

I stopped 3 hatching after I scout 1 gas core before nexus, I have sangate PDST.
On the other news, while I was gone from this thread I've lost to:
- +2 blink allin that went macro and killed my ultralisk/roach/hydra/brood lord
- failed 8pool into 1 base +1 roaches (yes, next game i drew the same guy and i went 15hatch, he did the same fucking build except now i wasnt ahead to begin with. fucking idiotic ladder 1 trick ponies)
- hellbat banshee bio allin the first ZvT I decided to go upgrades before lair

about the last one, go bane nest first and have 7+ queens ready

i did, had only 4 queens and no detection

so how do you attack protoss on echo?

keep making queens if he's not aggressive with hellions

also, you don't
Rain.100
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany946 Posts
May 08 2015 22:45 GMT
#2880
On May 09 2015 07:40 polpot wrote:
Does the tournament have a loser bracket?

kinda sad how we never really see loser brackets
was so standard in wc3, how was it in bw?
I have to return some videotapes. Maru and MarineLorD <3
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