|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On May 09 2015 07:32 Mozdk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2015 07:31 stuchiu wrote:On May 09 2015 07:24 Mozdk wrote:On May 09 2015 07:23 brickrd wrote:
there's literally nothing left for zerg that actually straight up counters storm other than good positioning and like... ultras, i guess. storm is even decent against broods So zerg actually have to split now? How fucking fascinating. Depending on the army, Zerg splitting doesnt do much. Splitting roach hydra viper for instance means you're wasting time not attacking meaning the collosus stalker ball just kills you. Well vs that army it doesn't. But moving out of storms makes sense. For all races.
In this particular case Sacsri had Roach BL infestor against collosus stalker HT. If he splits from storms, the stalkers get free snipes on the BL. If you do that you may as well just give up the game. I don't think Sacsri should have fought at all to be honest. Should have trade out his roaches for a million queens on the ground.
|
So zerg actually have to split now? How fucking fascinating.
the problem is the only units worth splitting are too slow to split, ultras, queens, broodlords, infestors, corruptors they are just too slow to be able to split effectively. it's not even worth splitting lings, once you split them there is no point in having them. the only units worth splitting are roach, hydra and mutas.
I'm not saying zerg shouldn't have to worry about storm, but there is really no way to keep your gas heavy units safe from it. the game has been balanced around zerg being able to zone out toss and keep Templar energy at a decent level, and now there is nothing to do that.
Not to mention that towards the end of the match all of Patience' collossi were surrounded by equal amount of ultras, and were fungled and atleast 3 colossi walked away. It's just sad that what the game had been balanced towards was just removed with no real alternative aside from just win earlier.
|
On May 09 2015 07:31 TheAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2015 07:28 TheDwf wrote:On May 09 2015 07:26 Elentos wrote:On May 09 2015 07:25 brickrd wrote:On May 09 2015 07:23 Elentos wrote:On May 09 2015 07:23 TheDwf wrote:Yeah, it confirms what I thought. FanTaSy got robbed. Dreamhack should disqualify HyuN for this tbh. IF it's true. need explication of rules and procedures and statement about what happened from DH before silly pitchforking I said IF it's true. Because to be honest it's unacceptable for HyuN to exploit the situation by completely changing his unit movement counteracting mines he didn't know were there in the original fight. At any rate, needs investigation. Someone forward this to our expert. It's worse than knowing that Mines are there (which were in his sight anyway), it's knowing that he loses the fight if he engages, so he rolls back the game before the engagement that he had chosen Hyun won fair and straight. Fantasy didnt complaint. Is not like when JD lost to Flash. The game was very tied
No, he didn't win fair and straight. The game should have been reloaded anywhere between 12'12 and 12'15, not at 12'00. HyuN conveniently disengaged himself from a bad decision which would have cost him a lot (and probably the game).
|
On May 09 2015 07:32 Alchemik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2015 07:32 stuchiu wrote:
Muta base trade is basically a gamble like 3 hatcg/10 pool/gold pool how is 3 hatch gamble? I guess they could cannon rush?
blind 3hatch in korean SC is a meta thing, there's really no "counter" to being cannon rushed while 3hatching. typically it's an assumption that korean toss don't want to cannon rush (which they usually don't) and/or the zerg will send 16th drone out to patrol the natural in case of early probe scout before taking the third hatch
|
On May 09 2015 07:34 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2015 07:32 Mozdk wrote:On May 09 2015 07:31 stuchiu wrote:On May 09 2015 07:24 Mozdk wrote:On May 09 2015 07:23 brickrd wrote:
there's literally nothing left for zerg that actually straight up counters storm other than good positioning and like... ultras, i guess. storm is even decent against broods So zerg actually have to split now? How fucking fascinating. Depending on the army, Zerg splitting doesnt do much. Splitting roach hydra viper for instance means you're wasting time not attacking meaning the collosus stalker ball just kills you. Well vs that army it doesn't. But moving out of storms makes sense. For all races. not really? see my post, you can't just continually move back against protoss with roach hydra, the longer protoss controls space the stronger they get. the only situation where you outsplit storms with a zerg army is if they have almost nothing buffering, but that's not the case in the zvp meta, it's normally stalker/sentry/immortal/storm, and stalker/sentry/immo is already really good even without storm
So moving 15 roaches out of a storm is not worth it? It's better to suck up the damage to get one more hit in? If you truely believe that, then you need to retake that math class.
|
"Desperate times call for desperate protoss all-ins!"
I love ToD :D
|
Patience could go for many many stalkers into win. I hear it works a lot.
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On May 09 2015 07:32 Alchemik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2015 07:32 stuchiu wrote:
Muta base trade is basically a gamble like 3 hatcg/10 pool/gold pool how is 3 hatch gamble? I guess they could cannon rush?
Its a gamble to me. A good cannon rusher like Classic should shut this down every time.
|
On May 09 2015 07:37 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2015 07:32 Alchemik wrote:On May 09 2015 07:32 stuchiu wrote:
Muta base trade is basically a gamble like 3 hatcg/10 pool/gold pool how is 3 hatch gamble? I guess they could cannon rush? Its a gamble to me. A good cannon rusher like Classic should shut this down every time.
Or he gets proxy hatch'd in his main. One of the two, really.
|
On May 09 2015 07:35 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2015 07:31 TheAnarchy wrote:On May 09 2015 07:28 TheDwf wrote:On May 09 2015 07:26 Elentos wrote:On May 09 2015 07:25 brickrd wrote:On May 09 2015 07:23 Elentos wrote:On May 09 2015 07:23 TheDwf wrote:Yeah, it confirms what I thought. FanTaSy got robbed. Dreamhack should disqualify HyuN for this tbh. IF it's true. need explication of rules and procedures and statement about what happened from DH before silly pitchforking I said IF it's true. Because to be honest it's unacceptable for HyuN to exploit the situation by completely changing his unit movement counteracting mines he didn't know were there in the original fight. At any rate, needs investigation. Someone forward this to our expert. It's worse than knowing that Mines are there (which were in his sight anyway), it's knowing that he loses the fight if he engages, so he rolls back the game before the engagement that he had chosen Hyun won fair and straight. Fantasy didnt complaint. Is not like when JD lost to Flash. The game was very tied No, he didn't win fair and straight. The game should have been reloaded anywhere between 12'12 and 12'15, not at 12'00. HyuN conveniently disengaged himself from a bad decision which would have cost him a lot (and probably the game).
This might of actually cost Fantasy a chance at the finals too looking at the bracket (esp if Rain > Parting).
|
On May 09 2015 07:36 Mozdk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2015 07:34 brickrd wrote:On May 09 2015 07:32 Mozdk wrote:On May 09 2015 07:31 stuchiu wrote:On May 09 2015 07:24 Mozdk wrote:On May 09 2015 07:23 brickrd wrote:
there's literally nothing left for zerg that actually straight up counters storm other than good positioning and like... ultras, i guess. storm is even decent against broods So zerg actually have to split now? How fucking fascinating. Depending on the army, Zerg splitting doesnt do much. Splitting roach hydra viper for instance means you're wasting time not attacking meaning the collosus stalker ball just kills you. Well vs that army it doesn't. But moving out of storms makes sense. For all races. not really? see my post, you can't just continually move back against protoss with roach hydra, the longer protoss controls space the stronger they get. the only situation where you outsplit storms with a zerg army is if they have almost nothing buffering, but that's not the case in the zvp meta, it's normally stalker/sentry/immortal/storm, and stalker/sentry/immo is already really good even without storm So moving 15 roaches out of a storm is not worth it? It's better to suck up the damage to get one more hit in? If you truely believe that, then you need to retake that math class.
it has nothing to do with math and damage values.. as protoss every second you stay alive against a roach/hydra army while teching and producing units you are pulling ahead in the game. that is literally the entire goal of pvz against all lair tech combat units, you buy time until your composition advantage can assert itself. you're a protoss player so clearly you're aware that zone control is the one and only counter to lair tech aggression from zerg. if i max on roaches you just forcefield me until i die and if i pull back i'm wasting time and losing supply efficiency. storms are zone control just like FFs.
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On May 09 2015 07:38 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2015 07:37 stuchiu wrote:On May 09 2015 07:32 Alchemik wrote:On May 09 2015 07:32 stuchiu wrote:
Muta base trade is basically a gamble like 3 hatcg/10 pool/gold pool how is 3 hatch gamble? I guess they could cannon rush? Its a gamble to me. A good cannon rusher like Classic should shut this down every time. Or he gets proxy hatch'd in his main. One of the two, really.
Rogue plays practice games against sOs all day, it was a fools errand to cannon rush him
|
Does the tournament have a loser bracket?
|
On May 09 2015 07:40 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2015 07:38 Elentos wrote:On May 09 2015 07:37 stuchiu wrote:On May 09 2015 07:32 Alchemik wrote:On May 09 2015 07:32 stuchiu wrote:
Muta base trade is basically a gamble like 3 hatcg/10 pool/gold pool how is 3 hatch gamble? I guess they could cannon rush? Its a gamble to me. A good cannon rusher like Classic should shut this down every time. Or he gets proxy hatch'd in his main. One of the two, really. Rogue plays practice games against sOs all day, it was a fools errand to cannon rush him
Really, proxying anyone on Jin Air is foolish.
|
|
|
"not many players can compete with only stalkers!"
idk kev
|
On May 09 2015 07:37 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2015 07:32 Alchemik wrote:On May 09 2015 07:32 stuchiu wrote:
Muta base trade is basically a gamble like 3 hatcg/10 pool/gold pool how is 3 hatch gamble? I guess they could cannon rush? Its a gamble to me. A good cannon rusher like Classic should shut this down every time.
I stopped 3 hatching after I scout 1 gas core before nexus, I have sangate PDST.
On the other news, while I was gone from this thread I've lost to:
- +2 blink allin that went macro and killed my ultralisk/roach/hydra/brood lord
- failed 8pool into 1 base +1 roaches (yes, next game i drew the same guy and i went 15hatch, he did the same fucking build except now i wasnt ahead to begin with. fucking idiotic ladder 1 trick ponies)
- hellbat banshee bio allin the first ZvT I decided to go upgrades before lair
|
On May 09 2015 07:40 polpot wrote:
Does the tournament have a loser bracket?
no
|
On May 09 2015 07:40 polpot wrote:
Does the tournament have a loser bracket?
No it's single elimination.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
