|
|
Norway25712 Posts
On April 15 2015 21:40 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:40 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:39 DJHelium wrote:On April 15 2015 21:37 lamehater wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. It's circumstantial evidence and not direct evidence. You need a lot of it to judge someone. I'm not saying that the accusations are incorrect, but the situation can undoubtedly be argued. Soulkey matchfixing isn't an absolute fact, it's just a possibility still. Would be nice if any tournament organizer, team OR Blizzard said anything about it then. Like "we're investigating" or "we've seen proof it's nothing". The total silence makes me think they all know it's going on, but no-one wants to say anything because it might hurt the scene. The problem is that eventually it will not only hurt it, but destroy the Korean Starcraft 2 scene. Has this sort of thing been happening a lot lately? I haven't really been following for... a couple of years. :| This is the 5th time bets have been cancelled in a couple months and there were multiple other matches that were suspicious.
And no statements at all from officials?
That's just dumb.
|
On April 15 2015 21:40 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:39 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:38 Paljas wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:30 Paljas wrote:On April 15 2015 21:29 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:28 Paljas wrote:On April 15 2015 21:26 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:24 DBooN wrote:On April 15 2015 21:23 KristofferAG wrote:
[quote]
Some, but not enough for me to instantly jump on a fucking hate train on SK's ass. The likelyness of something like that happening by chance is probably less than 1% So? I'm not gonna damn anyone till there's an official statement following an investigation. It's not my place to decide whether or not the match really was fixed, and who were involved. It's shady as shit, sure, but what if SK wasn't involved? the problem is that offical statements are not happening. match fixing in korea is well known to insiders To who? Give me sources, show me the proof. Repeating stuff you heard on Twitter or saw in a thread somewhere is *NOT* proof. to guys like rekrul or inuh there is no 100% proof because investigations are not happening Has there been actual, verifiable proof to implicate specific players in matchfixing? If so, why hasn't it been made public? Why keep sitting on it? If no one is investigating, post the proof publicly to force organizations to take action. I just don't think it's right to up and accuse players of matchfixing when not one person has come forward and shown any actionable info. I agree that its wrong to accuse single players. but the match fixing in korea wont stop if everyone just does nothing and waits Sure, I agree. So the people with all this supposed evidence need to start presenting it, and force organizations into action. I've been holding my breath on that supposedly scene-shattering article about matchfixing that was supposed to come out and ruin the whole Korean scene and, well, I'm getting a little dizzy from lack of oxygen over here. It will probably never happen because it would mean bad publicity if they were to confirm match fixing happening...
I think it's more likely that all this "proof" people supposedly have is not nearly as iron clad as it's made out to be.
|
On April 15 2015 21:41 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:40 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:39 DJHelium wrote:On April 15 2015 21:37 lamehater wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. It's circumstantial evidence and not direct evidence. You need a lot of it to judge someone. I'm not saying that the accusations are incorrect, but the situation can undoubtedly be argued. Soulkey matchfixing isn't an absolute fact, it's just a possibility still. Would be nice if any tournament organizer, team OR Blizzard said anything about it then. Like "we're investigating" or "we've seen proof it's nothing". The total silence makes me think they all know it's going on, but no-one wants to say anything because it might hurt the scene. The problem is that eventually it will not only hurt it, but destroy the Korean Starcraft 2 scene. Has this sort of thing been happening a lot lately? I haven't really been following for... a couple of years. :| Yeah voided bets are at... 5? 6? since the beginning of the year iirc. Swoopae confirmation? d:
San, Marineking, Super Map 1, Innovation Map 1 and Soulkey today to my knowledge
Additionally some of us believe Yoda v Bunny was fixed and a couple of other suspicious games
|
On April 15 2015 21:30 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:29 maGicc wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 RaFox17 wrote:On April 15 2015 21:26 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:23 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:22 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:20 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:19 OtherWorld wrote:On April 15 2015 21:18 KristofferAG wrote:
What exactly about that match screams match fixing? The beauty of match-fixing is that except when very nervous players are involved, it does NOT scream match-fixing. It's easy to lose by making small mistakes. It just feels like people here are totally okay with just accepting that SK is matchfixing, and it's weird. Fair enough that subtle mistakes can lead to a loss without anyone being able to say it was intentional, but I don't get why he's instantly a matchfixer now. If he was bet into being an 8-1 underdog in map 1 while being a 3-1 favourite in the bo5 series as a whole... does that set off any alarm bells? Some, but not enough for me to instantly jump on a fucking hate train on SK's ass. Sure. So call for an investigation along with the rest of us. Basically to put this in say tennis terms, this is like Nadal being a 3-1 favouite over Hewitt to win the match but Hewitt is a favourite to win the first set. It makes no sense. SC2 has maps that have a huge effect on a single game, so it´s really not the same. Maps have 5% effect on the game at best, we are talking about a solid favorite turning into 30% (or worse) underdog. If you dont have a clue about the betting you shouldnt post foolish comments. Can you show me your source on the 5% effect?
His ass.
|
On April 15 2015 21:40 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:39 DBooN wrote:On April 15 2015 21:37 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:35 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. You have proof that the bets were fucky. What you need is proof from the game showing some sort of suspicious play, or something directly linking SK to the odd betting patterns. Yeah, once again "omg the bets looked like,...SO WEIRD guys" is absolutely not proof that you can use to accuse a certain player of matchfixing or not. That's like finding a thief in your house that's stealing something and assuming he just wanted to return it after he caught someone else trying to steal it, there is no 100% So far the "proof" everyone has been trying to use is like...15-20% at best, though.
no it's above 99% if you understand maths
|
On April 15 2015 21:39 DJHelium wrote:
The total silence makes me think they all know it's going on, but no-one wants to say anything because it might hurt the scene.
Ostrich syndrome, they just want it all to blow over.
Bad for the scene,. totally agree there.
|
On April 15 2015 21:39 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:37 lamehater wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. It's circumstantial evidence and not direct evidence. You need a lot of it to judge someone. I'm not saying that the accusations are incorrect, but the situation can undoubtedly be argued. Soulkey matchfixing isn't an absolute fact, it's just a possibility still. Would be nice if any tournament organizer, team OR Blizzard said anything about it then. Like "we're investigating" or "we've seen proof it's nothing". The total silence makes me think they all know it's going on, but no-one wants to say anything because it might hurt the scene. The problem is that eventually it will not only hurt it, but destroy the Korean Starcraft 2 scene.
I agree with you, but the point still stands. The evidence is circumstantial and we cannot judge just yet. A lot of things are suspicious and I'd love to see official statements and investigations. All I'm trying to say is that we still don't have proof that's beyond the shadow of a doubt.
|
Norway25712 Posts
|
On April 15 2015 21:41 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:40 sharkie wrote:On April 15 2015 21:39 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:38 Paljas wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:30 Paljas wrote:On April 15 2015 21:29 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:28 Paljas wrote:On April 15 2015 21:26 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:24 DBooN wrote:
[quote]
The likelyness of something like that happening by chance is probably less than 1% So? I'm not gonna damn anyone till there's an official statement following an investigation. It's not my place to decide whether or not the match really was fixed, and who were involved. It's shady as shit, sure, but what if SK wasn't involved? the problem is that offical statements are not happening. match fixing in korea is well known to insiders To who? Give me sources, show me the proof. Repeating stuff you heard on Twitter or saw in a thread somewhere is *NOT* proof. to guys like rekrul or inuh there is no 100% proof because investigations are not happening Has there been actual, verifiable proof to implicate specific players in matchfixing? If so, why hasn't it been made public? Why keep sitting on it? If no one is investigating, post the proof publicly to force organizations to take action. I just don't think it's right to up and accuse players of matchfixing when not one person has come forward and shown any actionable info. I agree that its wrong to accuse single players. but the match fixing in korea wont stop if everyone just does nothing and waits Sure, I agree. So the people with all this supposed evidence need to start presenting it, and force organizations into action. I've been holding my breath on that supposedly scene-shattering article about matchfixing that was supposed to come out and ruin the whole Korean scene and, well, I'm getting a little dizzy from lack of oxygen over here. It will probably never happen because it would mean bad publicity if they were to confirm match fixing happening... I think it's more likely that all this "proof" people supposedly have is not nearly as iron clad as it's made out to be.
Hah... If that was the case they'd just tell us that and EVERYONE would be happy.
Unfortunately we don't live in such a dream world :/
|
United Kingdom31935 Posts
This thread wtf I am all for off topicness but this
|
Norway25712 Posts
On April 15 2015 21:42 GumBa wrote:
This thread wtf I am all for off topicness but this
I can't believe you'll hit 20k before me.
|
On April 15 2015 21:41 KristofferAG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:40 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:40 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:39 DJHelium wrote:On April 15 2015 21:37 lamehater wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. It's circumstantial evidence and not direct evidence. You need a lot of it to judge someone. I'm not saying that the accusations are incorrect, but the situation can undoubtedly be argued. Soulkey matchfixing isn't an absolute fact, it's just a possibility still. Would be nice if any tournament organizer, team OR Blizzard said anything about it then. Like "we're investigating" or "we've seen proof it's nothing". The total silence makes me think they all know it's going on, but no-one wants to say anything because it might hurt the scene. The problem is that eventually it will not only hurt it, but destroy the Korean Starcraft 2 scene. Has this sort of thing been happening a lot lately? I haven't really been following for... a couple of years. :| This is the 5th time bets have been cancelled in a couple months and there were multiple other matches that were suspicious. And no statements at all from officials? That's just dumb.
MVP promised to give a statement about the MK match yesterday but didn't :/
|
|
|
|
|
On April 15 2015 21:41 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:40 sharkie wrote:On April 15 2015 21:39 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:38 Paljas wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:30 Paljas wrote:On April 15 2015 21:29 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:28 Paljas wrote:On April 15 2015 21:26 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:24 DBooN wrote:
[quote]
The likelyness of something like that happening by chance is probably less than 1% So? I'm not gonna damn anyone till there's an official statement following an investigation. It's not my place to decide whether or not the match really was fixed, and who were involved. It's shady as shit, sure, but what if SK wasn't involved? the problem is that offical statements are not happening. match fixing in korea is well known to insiders To who? Give me sources, show me the proof. Repeating stuff you heard on Twitter or saw in a thread somewhere is *NOT* proof. to guys like rekrul or inuh there is no 100% proof because investigations are not happening Has there been actual, verifiable proof to implicate specific players in matchfixing? If so, why hasn't it been made public? Why keep sitting on it? If no one is investigating, post the proof publicly to force organizations to take action. I just don't think it's right to up and accuse players of matchfixing when not one person has come forward and shown any actionable info. I agree that its wrong to accuse single players. but the match fixing in korea wont stop if everyone just does nothing and waits Sure, I agree. So the people with all this supposed evidence need to start presenting it, and force organizations into action. I've been holding my breath on that supposedly scene-shattering article about matchfixing that was supposed to come out and ruin the whole Korean scene and, well, I'm getting a little dizzy from lack of oxygen over here. It will probably never happen because it would mean bad publicity if they were to confirm match fixing happening... I think it's more likely that all this "proof" people supposedly have is not nearly as iron clad as it's made out to be.
No, it is, you just don't understand the proof because you are not a sportsbettor. A multibillion dollar corporation's fraud team as well as progamers including Kane, Welmu, Huk and Rekrul agree with us.
|
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On April 15 2015 21:41 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:41 OtherWorld wrote:On April 15 2015 21:40 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:39 DJHelium wrote:On April 15 2015 21:37 lamehater wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. It's circumstantial evidence and not direct evidence. You need a lot of it to judge someone. I'm not saying that the accusations are incorrect, but the situation can undoubtedly be argued. Soulkey matchfixing isn't an absolute fact, it's just a possibility still. Would be nice if any tournament organizer, team OR Blizzard said anything about it then. Like "we're investigating" or "we've seen proof it's nothing". The total silence makes me think they all know it's going on, but no-one wants to say anything because it might hurt the scene. The problem is that eventually it will not only hurt it, but destroy the Korean Starcraft 2 scene. Has this sort of thing been happening a lot lately? I haven't really been following for... a couple of years. :| Yeah voided bets are at... 5? 6? since the beginning of the year iirc. Swoopae confirmation? d: San, Marineking, Super Map 1, Innovation Map 1 and Soulkey today to my knowledge Additionally some of us believe Yoda v Bunny was fixed and a couple of other suspicious games
you should also keep track of the suspicious activity that didn't pan out, just so data is complete
|
On April 15 2015 21:43 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:41 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:40 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:40 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:39 DJHelium wrote:On April 15 2015 21:37 lamehater wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. It's circumstantial evidence and not direct evidence. You need a lot of it to judge someone. I'm not saying that the accusations are incorrect, but the situation can undoubtedly be argued. Soulkey matchfixing isn't an absolute fact, it's just a possibility still. Would be nice if any tournament organizer, team OR Blizzard said anything about it then. Like "we're investigating" or "we've seen proof it's nothing". The total silence makes me think they all know it's going on, but no-one wants to say anything because it might hurt the scene. The problem is that eventually it will not only hurt it, but destroy the Korean Starcraft 2 scene. Has this sort of thing been happening a lot lately? I haven't really been following for... a couple of years. :| This is the 5th time bets have been cancelled in a couple months and there were multiple other matches that were suspicious. And no statements at all from officials? That's just dumb. MVP promised to give a statement about the MK match yesterday but didn't :/
They also promised this the day after the game. They promised it would be out yesterday too. Still no statement.
|
On April 15 2015 21:42 DBooN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:40 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:39 DBooN wrote:On April 15 2015 21:37 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:35 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. You have proof that the bets were fucky. What you need is proof from the game showing some sort of suspicious play, or something directly linking SK to the odd betting patterns. Yeah, once again "omg the bets looked like,...SO WEIRD guys" is absolutely not proof that you can use to accuse a certain player of matchfixing or not. That's like finding a thief in your house that's stealing something and assuming he just wanted to return it after he caught someone else trying to steal it, there is no 100% So far the "proof" everyone has been trying to use is like...15-20% at best, though. no it's above 99% if you understand maths
I understand the math and the betting just fine, but it's not proof that the players themselves were involved in any sort of matchfixing. For that you need to show me evidence of money changing hands and conversations/contact with people doing this sort of matchfixing stuff.
I'm sorry, but betting lines and all the probability/math associated with that are NOT ENOUGH to say with any sort of confidence that "Yes, Soulkey is almost definitely matchfixing."
|
|
|
Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
Poll: Recommend Soulkey vs Creator Game 3?★- Do not see this game no matter what (0) 0% ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0) 0% ★★★- Good game (2) 33% ★★★★- Highly recommended game (4) 67% ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0) 0% 6 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soulkey vs Creator Game 3? (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★- Good game
(Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
|
|
|
|
|
|
1136
933
383
8
EPT
