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On April 15 2015 21:31 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:30 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:28 DJHelium wrote:On April 15 2015 21:24 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:23 DJHelium wrote:
This tells me nothing. I have never bet on anything ever. Except liquibets. Lets say it like this. Is there any player you think have a huge advantage on a specific map but a big disadvantage in a series (that includes that map)? It doesn't exist. The only explanation is that somebody bet A LOT of money on Soulkey losing map one. So why would someone do that? Even if they knew Creator had a super build for the map, it's not that strange to see Soulkey holding it off. After all, he is the favourite. No, the only sensible reason someone would do it is if they KNEW Soulkey would lose that map. Only one way to know that  Oh, no, I just didn't get the numbers. I get what they mean sorta, people have said that a couple of times in the thread, I just don't get what the numbers are. Or what a line is. Ah ok! Say Creator is a 3 to 1 favourite. If you bet 100 dollars on Soulkey, you get 300 dollars back if he wins. If you bet 100 dollars on Creator, you get 100/3=~33 dollars back if he wins.
This is why I don't understand Korean match fixing. With some of the these ridiculous odds would the payout be awful even if it is guaranteed money? Wouldn't it make more sense to rig it so the heavy underdog wins?
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On April 15 2015 21:33 Big J wrote:
Someone with more knowledge about the betting system: Would it be possible for someone rich to just place so many bets to deliberately trigger the security-shutdown? Like, just for fun? Or because that person betted before and changed his mind and wants his bet voided?
Unlikely I guess, but it also sounds stupid to me that people would make the matchfixing so obvious that the betting sites can easily identify it and void everything.
I suspect the match fixing goes wrong because other people than the match fixers find out about the match fixing and join in, making it too obvious. Swoopae?
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ToD a spatula rofl
that's so him
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On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem.
Where is the proof that certain players were 100% matchfixing?
There's "this guy said this thing" and there's, you know, actual proof.
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Norway25712 Posts
On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem.
You have proof that the bets were fucky. What you need is proof from the game showing some sort of suspicious play, or something directly linking SK to the odd betting patterns.
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On April 15 2015 21:35 royalroadweed wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:31 DJHelium wrote:On April 15 2015 21:30 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:28 DJHelium wrote:On April 15 2015 21:24 KristofferAG wrote:This tells me nothing. I have never bet on anything ever. Except liquibets. Lets say it like this. Is there any player you think have a huge advantage on a specific map but a big disadvantage in a series (that includes that map)? It doesn't exist. The only explanation is that somebody bet A LOT of money on Soulkey losing map one. So why would someone do that? Even if they knew Creator had a super build for the map, it's not that strange to see Soulkey holding it off. After all, he is the favourite. No, the only sensible reason someone would do it is if they KNEW Soulkey would lose that map. Only one way to know that Oh, no, I just didn't get the numbers. I get what they mean sorta, people have said that a couple of times in the thread, I just don't get what the numbers are. Or what a line is. Ah ok! Say Creator is a 3 to 1 favourite. If you bet 100 dollars on Soulkey, you get 300 dollars back if he wins. If you bet 100 dollars on Creator, you get 100/3=~33 dollars back if he wins. This is why I don't understand Korean match fixing. With some of the these ridiculous odds would the payout be awful even if it is guaranteed money? Wouldn't it make more sense to rig it so the heavy underdog wins?
because if a huge underdog beats a top Korean every week or so it's kinda noticeable? d:
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On April 15 2015 21:33 Big J wrote:
Someone with more knowledge about the betting system: Would it be possible for someone rich to just place so many bets to deliberately trigger the security-shutdown? Like, just for fun? Or because that person betted before and changed his mind and wants his bet voided?
Unlikely I guess, but it also sounds stupid to me that people would make the matchfixing so obvious that the betting sites can easily identify it and void everything.
I mean probably, but you have to ask yourself why the favorite of the betting line always wins.
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On April 15 2015 21:35 royalroadweed wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:31 DJHelium wrote:On April 15 2015 21:30 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:28 DJHelium wrote:On April 15 2015 21:24 KristofferAG wrote:This tells me nothing. I have never bet on anything ever. Except liquibets. Lets say it like this. Is there any player you think have a huge advantage on a specific map but a big disadvantage in a series (that includes that map)? It doesn't exist. The only explanation is that somebody bet A LOT of money on Soulkey losing map one. So why would someone do that? Even if they knew Creator had a super build for the map, it's not that strange to see Soulkey holding it off. After all, he is the favourite. No, the only sensible reason someone would do it is if they KNEW Soulkey would lose that map. Only one way to know that Oh, no, I just didn't get the numbers. I get what they mean sorta, people have said that a couple of times in the thread, I just don't get what the numbers are. Or what a line is. Ah ok! Say Creator is a 3 to 1 favourite. If you bet 100 dollars on Soulkey, you get 300 dollars back if he wins. If you bet 100 dollars on Creator, you get 100/3=~33 dollars back if he wins. This is why I don't understand Korean match fixing. With some of the these ridiculous odds would the payout be awful even if it is guaranteed money? Wouldn't it make more sense to rig it so the heavy underdog wins?
No they bet such high amounts that it is very profitable still
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On April 15 2015 21:35 KristofferAG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. You have proof that the bets were fucky. What you need is proof from the game showing some sort of suspicious play, or something directly linking SK to the odd betting patterns.
How about a player not scouting for proxy hatch after scouting late pool and gas and no expansion?
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Norway25712 Posts
o shit i forgot vipers were a thing
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I'll just take the time to say that Creator is playing well today.
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On April 15 2015 21:35 KristofferAG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. You have proof that the bets were fucky. What you need is proof from the game showing some sort of suspicious play, or something directly linking SK to the odd betting patterns.
I don't think so, certainly they can play out a "close" game to dodge the claim too.
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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On April 15 2015 21:35 KristofferAG wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. You have proof that the bets were fucky. What you need is proof from the game showing some sort of suspicious play, or something directly linking SK to the odd betting patterns.
Yeah, once again "omg the bets looked like,...SO WEIRD guys" is absolutely not proof that you can use to accuse a certain player of matchfixing or not.
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On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem.
It's circumstantial evidence and not direct evidence. You need a lot of it to judge someone. I'm not saying that the accusations are incorrect, but the situation can undoubtedly be argued. Soulkey matchfixing isn't an absolute fact, it's just a possibility still.
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On April 15 2015 21:34 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:30 Paljas wrote:On April 15 2015 21:29 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 15 2015 21:28 Paljas wrote:On April 15 2015 21:26 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:24 DBooN wrote:On April 15 2015 21:23 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:22 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:20 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:19 OtherWorld wrote:
[quote]
The beauty of match-fixing is that except when very nervous players are involved, it does NOT scream match-fixing. It's easy to lose by making small mistakes. It just feels like people here are totally okay with just accepting that SK is matchfixing, and it's weird. Fair enough that subtle mistakes can lead to a loss without anyone being able to say it was intentional, but I don't get why he's instantly a matchfixer now. If he was bet into being an 8-1 underdog in map 1 while being a 3-1 favourite in the bo5 series as a whole... does that set off any alarm bells? Some, but not enough for me to instantly jump on a fucking hate train on SK's ass. The likelyness of something like that happening by chance is probably less than 1% So? I'm not gonna damn anyone till there's an official statement following an investigation. It's not my place to decide whether or not the match really was fixed, and who were involved. It's shady as shit, sure, but what if SK wasn't involved? the problem is that offical statements are not happening. match fixing in korea is well known to insiders To who? Give me sources, show me the proof. Repeating stuff you heard on Twitter or saw in a thread somewhere is *NOT* proof. to guys like rekrul or inuh there is no 100% proof because investigations are not happening Has there been actual, verifiable proof to implicate specific players in matchfixing? If so, why hasn't it been made public? Why keep sitting on it? If no one is investigating, post the proof publicly to force organizations to take action. I just don't think it's right to up and accuse players of matchfixing when not one person has come forward and shown any actionable info.
I agree that its wrong to accuse single players.
but the match fixing in korea wont stop if everyone just does nothing and waits
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Norway25712 Posts
On April 15 2015 21:37 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:35 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. You have proof that the bets were fucky. What you need is proof from the game showing some sort of suspicious play, or something directly linking SK to the odd betting patterns. Yeah, once again "omg the bets looked like,...SO WEIRD guys" is absolutely not proof that you can use to accuse a certain player of matchfixing or not.
Well, the bets were more than just "weird", but whatever.
I'm liking how this game is looking.
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On April 15 2015 21:37 lamehater wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. It's circumstantial evidence and not direct evidence. You need a lot of it to judge someone. I'm not saying that the accusations are incorrect, but the situation can undoubtedly be argued. Soulkey matchfixing isn't an absolute fact, it's just a possibility still.
It should be investigated agree?
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On April 15 2015 21:35 royalroadweed wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:31 DJHelium wrote:On April 15 2015 21:30 KristofferAG wrote:On April 15 2015 21:28 DJHelium wrote:On April 15 2015 21:24 KristofferAG wrote:This tells me nothing. I have never bet on anything ever. Except liquibets. Lets say it like this. Is there any player you think have a huge advantage on a specific map but a big disadvantage in a series (that includes that map)? It doesn't exist. The only explanation is that somebody bet A LOT of money on Soulkey losing map one. So why would someone do that? Even if they knew Creator had a super build for the map, it's not that strange to see Soulkey holding it off. After all, he is the favourite. No, the only sensible reason someone would do it is if they KNEW Soulkey would lose that map. Only one way to know that Oh, no, I just didn't get the numbers. I get what they mean sorta, people have said that a couple of times in the thread, I just don't get what the numbers are. Or what a line is. Ah ok! Say Creator is a 3 to 1 favourite. If you bet 100 dollars on Soulkey, you get 300 dollars back if he wins. If you bet 100 dollars on Creator, you get 100/3=~33 dollars back if he wins. This is why I don't understand Korean match fixing. With some of the these ridiculous odds would the payout be awful even if it is guaranteed money? Wouldn't it make more sense to rig it so the heavy underdog wins?
The odds don't matter if a player is 100% to win it's literally free money
Also, Creator was paying +200 for map 1 when the bets started, the lines are dynamic not fixed. So much money was bet on Creator he closed at -290 according to Pinnacle and may have been even higher at some point
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On April 15 2015 21:38 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 21:37 lamehater wrote:On April 15 2015 21:34 Swoopae wrote:On April 15 2015 21:27 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Stop throwing around accusations like "Soulkey is matchfixing!:" without actual fucking proof.
No, saying "But the betting patterns were TOTALLY suspicious!" is NOT sufficient proof to outright accuse a player of matchfixing. We have proof. If you don't understand the proof, that's your problem. It's circumstantial evidence and not direct evidence. You need a lot of it to judge someone. I'm not saying that the accusations are incorrect, but the situation can undoubtedly be argued. Soulkey matchfixing isn't an absolute fact, it's just a possibility still. It should be investigated agree?
It should.
But will it?
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EPT
