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[DreamHack] Winter 2014 - Day 3 - Page 130

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 128 129 130 131 132 239 Next
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
November 29 2014 20:34 GMT
#2581
On November 30 2014 05:32 KelsierSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:30 Lonyo wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:22 KelsierSC wrote:
player from the winner's bracket has the advantage because they play one less bo5

no other advantages necessary.

In NFL playoffs the top seed doesn't start the game 7-0, they just didn't have to play wild card week.

You can play more individual games going through winners bracket even if you play fewer series, so the argument is not particularly helpful, since the number of games you play is variable.


but you play less series, less opponents and are more likely better rested etc.


comeon, I don't think progamers who play 30+ games per day and probably even play during breaks are so easily exhausted. surely playing on LAN is more exhausting, but I do think those players are quite used to it.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
November 29 2014 20:34 GMT
#2582
On November 30 2014 05:34 Zealously wrote:
To anyone who watched IPL4 and thinks that ForGG should have a bigger advantage here, did aLive seem like the better player at IPL4 to you?


ipl4 was a farce in both tournaments

SQUIRTLE GOT ROBBED

STARTALE GOT ROBBED
REyeM
Profile Joined August 2014
2674 Posts
November 29 2014 20:35 GMT
#2583
On November 30 2014 05:34 Zealously wrote:
To anyone who watched IPL4 and thinks that ForGG should have a bigger advantage here, did aLive seem like the better player at IPL4 to you?


Who on what?
S4 Arrows, never forget. RIP Woongjin Stars.
KingofdaHipHop
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United States25602 Posts
November 29 2014 20:35 GMT
#2584
On November 30 2014 05:34 Zealously wrote:
To anyone who watched IPL4 and thinks that ForGG should have a bigger advantage here, did aLive seem like the better player at IPL4 to you?

Isn't that the tournament that Squirtle also didn't win?
Rain | herO | sOs | Dear | Neeb | ByuN | INnoVation | Dream | ForGG | Maru | ByuL | Golden | Solar | Soulkey | Scarlett!!!
mikumegurine
Profile Joined May 2013
Canada3145 Posts
November 29 2014 20:35 GMT
#2585
do other double elimination tournaments do it this way?

for fighting game double elimination, its double elimination all the way throughout

what about other games?
Superbanana
Profile Joined May 2014
2369 Posts
November 29 2014 20:35 GMT
#2586
I think its more unfair to give any sort of advantage to the winners bracket grand finalist :/
Imagine if its Taeja advancing, if forGG wins with any advantage its really hard to say he is the better player.
In PvZ the zerg can make the situation spire out of control but protoss can adept to the situation.
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
November 29 2014 20:36 GMT
#2587
On November 30 2014 05:35 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:34 Zealously wrote:
To anyone who watched IPL4 and thinks that ForGG should have a bigger advantage here, did aLive seem like the better player at IPL4 to you?

Isn't that the tournament that Squirtle also didn't win?

Won the first half of the finals, lost kinda narrowly in the second and thus ended up #2
AdministratorBreak the chains
KelsierSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom10443 Posts
November 29 2014 20:36 GMT
#2588
I am much happier that the final is just a straight up b07 without life having to win like 8 games to take the title.

it is much more exciting for the fans.
Zerg for Life
KingofdaHipHop
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United States25602 Posts
November 29 2014 20:36 GMT
#2589
On November 30 2014 05:34 HolydaKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:32 KelsierSC wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:30 Lonyo wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:22 KelsierSC wrote:
player from the winner's bracket has the advantage because they play one less bo5

no other advantages necessary.

In NFL playoffs the top seed doesn't start the game 7-0, they just didn't have to play wild card week.

You can play more individual games going through winners bracket even if you play fewer series, so the argument is not particularly helpful, since the number of games you play is variable.


but you play less series, less opponents and are more likely better rested etc.


comeon, I don't think progamers who play 30+ games per day and probably even play during breaks are so easily exhausted. surely playing on LAN is more exhausting, but I do think those players are quite used to it.

It's more exhausting to play at a lan with conditions that you don't necessarily control. Plus the intel and mental preperation you get is pretty good advantage as well.
Rain | herO | sOs | Dear | Neeb | ByuN | INnoVation | Dream | ForGG | Maru | ByuL | Golden | Solar | Soulkey | Scarlett!!!
mikumegurine
Profile Joined May 2013
Canada3145 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-29 20:38:04
November 29 2014 20:37 GMT
#2590
On November 30 2014 05:35 Superbanana wrote:
I think its more unfair to give any sort of advantage to the winners bracket grand finalist :/
Imagine if its Taeja advancing, if forGG wins with any advantage its really hard to say he is the better player.


the winner bracket guy never lost, why does the loser bracket guy get 2 lives, but ForGG only gets 1 life (because hes so good he never lost, he only gets 1 life, everyone else get 2 lives)?
Faefae
Profile Joined June 2014
2203 Posts
November 29 2014 20:37 GMT
#2591
On November 30 2014 05:32 KelsierSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:30 Lonyo wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:22 KelsierSC wrote:
player from the winner's bracket has the advantage because they play one less bo5

no other advantages necessary.

In NFL playoffs the top seed doesn't start the game 7-0, they just didn't have to play wild card week.

You can play more individual games going through winners bracket even if you play fewer series, so the argument is not particularly helpful, since the number of games you play is variable.


but you play less series, less opponents and are more likely better rested etc.


But this is in now way fair? Sure you play ONE more series, but it gives you more opportunuities than beeing eliminated right away (which is what happens to forgg here).

Anyway it'll be a good series hopefully!
ForGG. 29/11/2014
691175002
Profile Joined August 2010
122 Posts
November 29 2014 20:37 GMT
#2592
Double elimination in the finals is dumb because its way too hard to know how long the match will be. It could be a 3-0 or you could end up playing 10 games. We had tournaments like that in the past and the whine was unprecedented.

I think starting with a 1 game advantage in a BO7 is pretty reasonable.
kaykoose
Profile Joined February 2014
United States2302 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-29 20:39:25
November 29 2014 20:38 GMT
#2593
On November 30 2014 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:28 kaykoose wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:10 kaykoose wrote:
Oh shit. ForGG beat him but gets no advantage?


His advantage was not needing to play an additional set (the Loser's Final match vs. Taeja). Winning non-stop means you play fewer matches while the losers drop down to the lower bracket and need to play more and work their way through a larger bracket. ForGG has more time to rest and can watch how Life played vs. Taeja to help him plan his series.


I guess it depends on what you deem is more important. Life played more but he got his 2nd chance. ForGG not getting that 2nd chance is more important to me

EDIT: Also, obviously the players knew this before hand. So it's a non issue for them. Just stating my opinion


I agree. Some advantages might be seen as more important than others, but ForGG still clearly gets *an* advantage for winning non-stop.


Ya. I can see how that is an advantage. Just not a big enough for me lol

If people are against extended series, what about 1-0 in bo7? People have been suggesting that and thats a good middle ground IMO
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
November 29 2014 20:38 GMT
#2594
They should have used this kind of bracket.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_VII_-_World_Championship
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
felisconcolori
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States6168 Posts
November 29 2014 20:38 GMT
#2595
On November 30 2014 05:34 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:34 Zealously wrote:
To anyone who watched IPL4 and thinks that ForGG should have a bigger advantage here, did aLive seem like the better player at IPL4 to you?


ipl4 was a farce in both tournaments

SQUIRTLE GOT ROBBED

STARTALE GOT ROBBED


Squirtle maybe. I think Startale was accurate result.
Yes, I email sponsors... to thank them. Don't post drunk, kids. My king, what has become of you?
PepsiMaxxxx
Profile Joined October 2012
Sweden5452 Posts
November 29 2014 20:38 GMT
#2596
Squirtle had the sickest Colossus build in that tournament, Nestea couldn't do shit!
rasnj
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1959 Posts
November 29 2014 20:38 GMT
#2597
On November 30 2014 05:35 mikumegurine wrote:
do other double elimination tournaments do it this way?

for fighting game double elimination, its double elimination all the way throughout

what about other games?

It differs. Some do pure double elimination, some do DH style, some gives a smaller advantage such as a 1-0 lead in a bo7. Doing pure double elimination has several disadvantages. Losing a series in the WB finals means more than losing a series in the grand finals, because in the WB finals you both lose that series in the eventual grand finals, but you also have to go up against the last person in the LB. You want the grand finals itself to be the more important than the WB finals.
KelsierSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom10443 Posts
November 29 2014 20:39 GMT
#2598
On November 30 2014 05:38 PepsiMaxxxx wrote:
Squirtle had the sickest Colossus build in that tournament, Nestea couldn't do shit!


oh that tournament.

wasn't that the one that had Anna and Rachel in really hot dresses aswell?

yeh good tournament
Zerg for Life
Superbanana
Profile Joined May 2014
2369 Posts
November 29 2014 20:39 GMT
#2599
On November 30 2014 05:37 mikumegurine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:35 Superbanana wrote:
I think its more unfair to give any sort of advantage to the winners bracket grand finalist :/
Imagine if its Taeja advancing, if forGG wins with any advantage its really hard to say he is the better player.


the winner bracket guy never lost, why does Taeja get 2 lives, but ForGG only gets 1 life (because hes so good he never lost, he only gets 1 life, everyone else get 2 lives)?

But he had to win less series.
The logic of the format is to narrow down to the best 2 players and make them play one series fair and square to decide the champion.
In PvZ the zerg can make the situation spire out of control but protoss can adept to the situation.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45766 Posts
November 29 2014 20:39 GMT
#2600
On November 30 2014 05:38 kaykoose wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:28 kaykoose wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:10 kaykoose wrote:
Oh shit. ForGG beat him but gets no advantage?


His advantage was not needing to play an additional set (the Loser's Final match vs. Taeja). Winning non-stop means you play fewer matches while the losers drop down to the lower bracket and need to play more and work their way through a larger bracket. ForGG has more time to rest and can watch how Life played vs. Taeja to help him plan his series.


I guess it depends on what you deem is more important. Life played more but he got his 2nd chance. ForGG not getting that 2nd chance is more important to me

EDIT: Also, obviously the players knew this before hand. So it's a non issue for them. Just stating my opinion


I agree. Some advantages might be seen as more important than others, but ForGG still clearly gets *an* advantage for winning non-stop.


Ya. I can see how that is an advantage. Just not a big enough for me lol

If people are against extended series, what about 1-0 in bo7? People have been suggesting that and thats a good middle ground IMO


Fair enough
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
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