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On November 30 2014 05:26 Walnuts wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2014 05:22 kaykoose wrote:On November 30 2014 05:21 Walnuts wrote:On November 30 2014 05:11 Dodgin wrote:On November 30 2014 05:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 30 2014 05:08 sibs wrote:
Come on.
it's
1. Life
2. NesTea
3. DRG
4. Soulkey (maybe?) Definitely Life and Nestea for top two Zergs of all SC2 history (although I'm not sure who's technically in first). Life is very clearly better unless you weigh GSL way too high I think it goes 1 Life- pretty much has everything 2 Nestea-3 GSLs, best for a shorter period of time 3 DRG, been around longer than Life, with similar success but not quite the same highs. I almost think he ties Nestea. 4 SoO- All those silvers. 5 Leenock- everybody seems to forget how good he was at foreign tournaments for a while there. For terrans, I think it goes Mvp, Taeja, Polt, Innovation.... MKP/MMA? For tosses, I guess MC, Rain/Zest, Parting, and idk who else, toss doesn't have much of a unified best players group, unless I'm forgetting someone. MMA shouldn't be a question... he's at least #3. It's tough to say, he used to be my #1 favorite player, but he really went down during 2012/2013, to the point where Polt is definitely ahead. I guess I could be convinced that MMA is #4 tho, over Innovation.
By that same reasoning, Mvp really went down during 2013-2014, you couldn't put him at #1. I think if you look at their entire careers, MMA > Polt
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On November 30 2014 05:27 KelsierSC wrote:
the whole debate comes down to whether or not you believe not having to play a b05 vs the 3rd best player at the tournament is an advantage or not.
to me it is enough advantage so no extended series is necessary
The point is that one of the two players in the loser's bracket will end up in the finals, and he will have a too high probability of finishing first although he was not the best player of the tournament.
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On November 30 2014 05:29 KtJ wrote:
i'm back someone needed to use the computer.
how was taeja vs life?
Very good 
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On November 30 2014 05:28 kaykoose wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2014 05:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 30 2014 05:10 kaykoose wrote:
Oh shit. ForGG beat him but gets no advantage? His advantage was not needing to play an additional set (the Loser's Final match vs. Taeja). Winning non-stop means you play fewer matches while the losers drop down to the lower bracket and need to play more and work their way through a larger bracket. ForGG has more time to rest and can watch how Life played vs. Taeja to help him plan his series. I guess it depends on what you deem is more important. Life played more but he got his 2nd chance. ForGG not getting that 2nd chance is more important to me
Exactly, which is why I always loved the one Bo3 advantage in Wc3.
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On November 30 2014 05:22 KelsierSC wrote:
player from the winner's bracket has the advantage because they play one less bo5
no other advantages necessary.
In NFL playoffs the top seed doesn't start the game 7-0, they just didn't have to play wild card week.
You can play more individual games going through winners bracket even if you play fewer series, so the argument is not particularly helpful, since the number of games you play is variable.
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On November 30 2014 05:29 KtJ wrote:
i'm back someone needed to use the computer.
how was taeja vs life?
Awesome.
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On November 30 2014 05:28 kaykoose wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2014 05:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 30 2014 05:10 kaykoose wrote:
Oh shit. ForGG beat him but gets no advantage? His advantage was not needing to play an additional set (the Loser's Final match vs. Taeja). Winning non-stop means you play fewer matches while the losers drop down to the lower bracket and need to play more and work their way through a larger bracket. ForGG has more time to rest and can watch how Life played vs. Taeja to help him plan his series. I guess it depends on what you deem is more important. Life played more but he got his 2nd chance. ForGG not getting that 2nd chance is more important to me EDIT: Also, obviously the players knew this before hand. So it's a non issue for them. Just stating my opinion
I agree. Some advantages might be seen as more important than others, but ForGG still clearly gets *an* advantage for winning non-stop.
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On November 30 2014 05:28 rasnj wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2014 05:23 Lonyo wrote:On November 30 2014 05:15 Supersamu wrote:On November 30 2014 05:13 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On November 30 2014 05:12 Supersamu wrote:On November 30 2014 05:11 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On November 30 2014 05:10 Supersamu wrote:On November 30 2014 05:09 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On November 30 2014 05:08 Diderick wrote:
No winners bracket advantage for ForGG? No and thank goodness, I hate when tournaments do that. But giving the winner's bracket advantage increases the chance that the winner of the tournament was the best player. Winners bracket advantage is that that player doesn't have to play another extremely difficult best of 5 and face elimination. But one of the two players in the loser's bracket is guaranteed to play in the finals... what's your point? My point is that the person in the winner's bracket should be rewarded for not losing a series. I agree entirely. The person who never drops to the losers bracket never gets his second chance. Life has already lost to ForGG once, so he has one loss. If Life then wins the final final, he wins the whole thing. He will have lost 1 series and won the rest. ForGG will also have lost 1 series and won the rest, but everyone else in the tournament will have lost TWO series to get knocked out. It's unfair on ForGG because he never gets his second chance. If he loses in the grand final that's it for him. That's why the double BOX is the most sensible, because the first BOX is the winner route finalist's second chance BO5, or the loser bracket finalists final BOX/second chance loss. ForGG get to play less series, and have less opportunities to be eliminated. The penalty for losing the WB finals is that you have to play a bo5 vs Taeja which could eliminate you. If you win, then you suffer no more consequences (apart from the fatigue and revealing strategies). However you have to consider that if Life only had a 65% chance of beating Taeja, then losing WB finals is equivalent to being eliminated with probability 35%. That is not nothing. Unless Forgg is the only realistic threat to Life, then losing the WB finals does carry a serious penalty. The two chances, or two life approach to double elimination is all fine. But there is no reason it should carry on like that till the end. As long as all players know exactly what winning a match means for them in the tournament nothing can really be unfair.
It might be "fair," but it's not conducive to ensuring that the most deserving player won.
Just like if the RO8, RO4, and finals were made into BO1s. That would still be fair. But the results would be fucked up.
This is obviously far less extreme than that, but it's the same idea.
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why is double elimination fair for all the players, but not for the guy who never lost (the one in the winners bracket finals)
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Wait, do I have to wait half an hour for the next match wtf
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On November 30 2014 05:30 Superbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2014 05:29 KtJ wrote:
i'm back someone needed to use the computer.
how was taeja vs life? Very good
i was reading the thread to see what was happening, there was a proxy?
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On November 30 2014 05:31 mikumegurine wrote:
why is double elimination fair for all the players, but not for the guy who never lost (the one in the winners bracket finals)
there is no fault at double elimination, only if there is no penalty for the guy who ends up in the lower bracket. which is something i've never seen happen back in wc3, first time I saw it was in SC2.
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On November 30 2014 05:29 KtJ wrote:
i'm back someone needed to use the computer.
how was taeja vs life?
Awesome.
Don't look at my icon if you don't want to be spoiled 
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On November 30 2014 05:30 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2014 05:22 KelsierSC wrote:
player from the winner's bracket has the advantage because they play one less bo5
no other advantages necessary.
In NFL playoffs the top seed doesn't start the game 7-0, they just didn't have to play wild card week. You can play more individual games going through winners bracket even if you play fewer series, so the argument is not particularly helpful, since the number of games you play is variable.
but you play less series, less opponents and are more likely better rested etc.
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On November 30 2014 05:32 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2014 05:29 KtJ wrote:
i'm back someone needed to use the computer.
how was taeja vs life? Awesome. Don't look at my icon if you don't want to be spoiled
oh i was already spoiled.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 30 2014 05:32 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2014 05:30 Lonyo wrote:On November 30 2014 05:22 KelsierSC wrote:
player from the winner's bracket has the advantage because they play one less bo5
no other advantages necessary.
In NFL playoffs the top seed doesn't start the game 7-0, they just didn't have to play wild card week. You can play more individual games going through winners bracket even if you play fewer series, so the argument is not particularly helpful, since the number of games you play is variable. but you play less series, less opponents and are more likely better rested etc.
Plus he got to see exactly how Life played against Taeja...that kind of intel is really important.
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I didn't even notice that 3rd place prize was $10,000. Poor Taeja, forever the 10 Grand Man.
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On November 30 2014 05:31 KtJ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2014 05:30 Superbanana wrote:On November 30 2014 05:29 KtJ wrote:
i'm back someone needed to use the computer.
how was taeja vs life? Very good i was reading the thread to see what was happening, there was a proxy?
Nope, Taeja did an all in on Overgrowth that didn't work and Life did an all in on Merry that didn't work. The rest was macro games.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
To anyone who watched IPL4 and thinks that ForGG should have a bigger advantage here, did aLive seem like the better player at IPL4 to you?
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On November 30 2014 05:34 Zealously wrote:
To anyone who watched IPL4 and thinks that ForGG should have a bigger advantage here, did aLive seem like the better player at IPL4 to you?
oh wow alive
I kind of forgot that guy was ... alive
HAHAHAHHAA
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EPT
