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[DreamHack] Winter 2014 - Day 3 - Page 131

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 129 130 131 132 133 239 Next
Supersamu
Profile Joined November 2014
Germany296 Posts
November 29 2014 20:40 GMT
#2601
On November 30 2014 05:36 KelsierSC wrote:
I am much happier that the final is just a straight up b07 without life having to win like 8 games to take the title.

it is much more exciting for the fans.


I guess that is more important for the company organizing the tournament, but it is not the fairest way to determine a winner.
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
November 29 2014 20:40 GMT
#2602
Well I'll just say I'm not agreeing with this system. Rather see either single elimination or a reasonable advantage for the player that could basically have already won the tournament if it was single elimination. Personally I even think a 2-0 advantage is better than a 1-0 advantage in a bo7, but nothing is just wrong for me.
Huziwara
Profile Joined March 2013
France11 Posts
November 29 2014 20:40 GMT
#2603
lol, IPL4, so heartbreaking...
Life is the best!
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-29 20:43:39
November 29 2014 20:41 GMT
#2604
On November 30 2014 05:39 Superbanana wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:37 mikumegurine wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:35 Superbanana wrote:
I think its more unfair to give any sort of advantage to the winners bracket grand finalist :/
Imagine if its Taeja advancing, if forGG wins with any advantage its really hard to say he is the better player.


the winner bracket guy never lost, why does Taeja get 2 lives, but ForGG only gets 1 life (because hes so good he never lost, he only gets 1 life, everyone else get 2 lives)?

But he had to win less series.
The logic of the format is to narrow down to the best 2 players and make them play one series fair and square to decide the champion.

The logic of the format is that you get 2 chances to be eliminated. The person who makes it to the end without being eliminated twice is the winner.
If you do an ACTUAL double elimination tournament, that is.

This format is designed to be a mess where not getting eliminated doesn't really benefit you.
It's double elimination except if you don't get eliminated it's single elimination. GJ.
HOLY CHECK!
KelsierSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom10443 Posts
November 29 2014 20:41 GMT
#2605
On November 30 2014 05:40 Supersamu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:36 KelsierSC wrote:
I am much happier that the final is just a straight up b07 without life having to win like 8 games to take the title.

it is much more exciting for the fans.


I guess that is more important for the company organizing the tournament, but it is not the fairest way to determine a winner.


seems fair to me

again it is people's opinion really.
Zerg for Life
shockaslim
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1105 Posts
November 29 2014 20:42 GMT
#2606
On November 30 2014 05:33 mierin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:32 KelsierSC wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:30 Lonyo wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:22 KelsierSC wrote:
player from the winner's bracket has the advantage because they play one less bo5

no other advantages necessary.

In NFL playoffs the top seed doesn't start the game 7-0, they just didn't have to play wild card week.

You can play more individual games going through winners bracket even if you play fewer series, so the argument is not particularly helpful, since the number of games you play is variable.


but you play less series, less opponents and are more likely better rested etc.



Plus he got to see exactly how Life played against Taeja...that kind of intel is really important.


He already beat him so that point is kind of moot.
Dirty Deeds...DONE DIRT CHEAP!!!
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
November 29 2014 20:42 GMT
#2607
On November 30 2014 05:40 HolydaKing wrote:
Well I'll just say I'm not agreeing with this system. Rather see either single elimination or a reasonable advantage for the player that could basically have already won the tournament if it was single elimination. Personally I even think a 2-0 advantage is better than a 1-0 advantage in a bo7, but nothing is just wrong for me.


2-0 advantage is a Bo7 is stupid. It mean that the loser has to go 4-1, which gives the winner too much space to take risks.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Gotnerves
Profile Joined August 2012
56 Posts
November 29 2014 20:44 GMT
#2608
Playing Campaign for practice helped life beat taeja.
Superbanana
Profile Joined May 2014
2369 Posts
November 29 2014 20:44 GMT
#2609
On November 30 2014 05:41 Lonyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:39 Superbanana wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:37 mikumegurine wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:35 Superbanana wrote:
I think its more unfair to give any sort of advantage to the winners bracket grand finalist :/
Imagine if its Taeja advancing, if forGG wins with any advantage its really hard to say he is the better player.


the winner bracket guy never lost, why does Taeja get 2 lives, but ForGG only gets 1 life (because hes so good he never lost, he only gets 1 life, everyone else get 2 lives)?

But he had to win less series.
The logic of the format is to narrow down to the best 2 players and make them play one series fair and square to decide the champion.

The logic of the format is that you get 2 chances to be eliminated. The person who makes it to the end without being eliminated twice is the winner.
If you do an ACTUAL double elimination tournament, that is.

This format is designed to be a mess where not getting eliminated doesn't really benefit you.

If you give one extra life to forGG, then its unfair that Life had to beat Taeja in the losers bracket.
But i do agree the format is a mess.
In PvZ the zerg can make the situation spire out of control but protoss can adept to the situation.
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
November 29 2014 20:44 GMT
#2610
On November 30 2014 05:42 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:40 HolydaKing wrote:
Well I'll just say I'm not agreeing with this system. Rather see either single elimination or a reasonable advantage for the player that could basically have already won the tournament if it was single elimination. Personally I even think a 2-0 advantage is better than a 1-0 advantage in a bo7, but nothing is just wrong for me.


2-0 advantage is a Bo7 is stupid. It mean that the loser has to go 4-1, which gives the winner too much space to take risks.

Yeah I guess if it was Bo9 then 2-0. You are right, but anyway for most fair play I prefer 2 Bo3 where the winner bracket player just needs to win one, the loser two. Had that often in Wc3, but people complained about too few games.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
November 29 2014 20:45 GMT
#2611
On November 30 2014 05:44 Gotnerves wrote:
Playing Campaign for practice helped life beat taeja.

Kerrigan ruined everything this tournament -.-
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
Supersamu
Profile Joined November 2014
Germany296 Posts
November 29 2014 20:45 GMT
#2612
On November 30 2014 05:42 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:40 HolydaKing wrote:
Well I'll just say I'm not agreeing with this system. Rather see either single elimination or a reasonable advantage for the player that could basically have already won the tournament if it was single elimination. Personally I even think a 2-0 advantage is better than a 1-0 advantage in a bo7, but nothing is just wrong for me.


2-0 advantage is a Bo7 is stupid. It mean that the loser has to go 4-1, which gives the winner too much space to take risks.


What are risks in a game of starcraft 2? You always aim for maximizing your winning chances in each particular game, aren't you?
KingofdaHipHop
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United States25602 Posts
November 29 2014 20:45 GMT
#2613
How about we see it as a double elimination tournament that lets two players to qualify for one who's-the-best best of 7 grand final. You have two chances to make it, and one player just happens to not drop a series. Seems totally reasonable to me.
Rain | herO | sOs | Dear | Neeb | ByuN | INnoVation | Dream | ForGG | Maru | ByuL | Golden | Solar | Soulkey | Scarlett!!!
shockaslim
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1105 Posts
November 29 2014 20:46 GMT
#2614
On November 30 2014 05:44 Superbanana wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:41 Lonyo wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:39 Superbanana wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:37 mikumegurine wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:35 Superbanana wrote:
I think its more unfair to give any sort of advantage to the winners bracket grand finalist :/
Imagine if its Taeja advancing, if forGG wins with any advantage its really hard to say he is the better player.


the winner bracket guy never lost, why does Taeja get 2 lives, but ForGG only gets 1 life (because hes so good he never lost, he only gets 1 life, everyone else get 2 lives)?

But he had to win less series.
The logic of the format is to narrow down to the best 2 players and make them play one series fair and square to decide the champion.

The logic of the format is that you get 2 chances to be eliminated. The person who makes it to the end without being eliminated twice is the winner.
If you do an ACTUAL double elimination tournament, that is.

This format is designed to be a mess where not getting eliminated doesn't really benefit you.

If you give one extra life to forGG, then its unfair that Life had to beat Taeja in the losers bracket.
But i do agree the format is a mess.


Not necessarily. Life already lost...so why should ForGG only lose once and be out?
Dirty Deeds...DONE DIRT CHEAP!!!
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
November 29 2014 20:47 GMT
#2615
On November 30 2014 05:45 Supersamu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:42 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:40 HolydaKing wrote:
Well I'll just say I'm not agreeing with this system. Rather see either single elimination or a reasonable advantage for the player that could basically have already won the tournament if it was single elimination. Personally I even think a 2-0 advantage is better than a 1-0 advantage in a bo7, but nothing is just wrong for me.


2-0 advantage is a Bo7 is stupid. It mean that the loser has to go 4-1, which gives the winner too much space to take risks.


What are risks in a game of starcraft 2? You always aim for maximizing your winning chances in each particular game, aren't you?


BO1s are always more volatile because of cheese and unpredictable, tough to scout aggressive builds. Same logic applies.
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
Supersamu
Profile Joined November 2014
Germany296 Posts
November 29 2014 20:47 GMT
#2616
On November 30 2014 05:44 Superbanana wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:41 Lonyo wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:39 Superbanana wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:37 mikumegurine wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:35 Superbanana wrote:
I think its more unfair to give any sort of advantage to the winners bracket grand finalist :/
Imagine if its Taeja advancing, if forGG wins with any advantage its really hard to say he is the better player.


the winner bracket guy never lost, why does Taeja get 2 lives, but ForGG only gets 1 life (because hes so good he never lost, he only gets 1 life, everyone else get 2 lives)?

But he had to win less series.
The logic of the format is to narrow down to the best 2 players and make them play one series fair and square to decide the champion.

The logic of the format is that you get 2 chances to be eliminated. The person who makes it to the end without being eliminated twice is the winner.
If you do an ACTUAL double elimination tournament, that is.

This format is designed to be a mess where not getting eliminated doesn't really benefit you.

If you give one extra life to forGG, then its unfair that Life had to beat Taeja in the losers bracket.
But i do agree the format is a mess.


Don't concentrate on the fact that Life had to beat Taeja. That is just a result. Taeja could have won as well and then it would still have been unfair to ForGG since Taeja's chances of winning the Tournament would be too high.
vult
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States9400 Posts
November 29 2014 20:47 GMT
#2617
1-0 in a bo7 for the WB winner is the best solution in the least amount of games. I think the most optimal solution is 2-0 I'm Bo9 but that's a lot of games. That way the LB player has to win a BO5 and a BO3 to win the tourney pretty much.
I used to play random, but for you I play very specifically.
Superbanana
Profile Joined May 2014
2369 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-29 20:51:26
November 29 2014 20:48 GMT
#2618
On November 30 2014 05:46 shockaslim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:44 Superbanana wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:41 Lonyo wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:39 Superbanana wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:37 mikumegurine wrote:
On November 30 2014 05:35 Superbanana wrote:
I think its more unfair to give any sort of advantage to the winners bracket grand finalist :/
Imagine if its Taeja advancing, if forGG wins with any advantage its really hard to say he is the better player.


the winner bracket guy never lost, why does Taeja get 2 lives, but ForGG only gets 1 life (because hes so good he never lost, he only gets 1 life, everyone else get 2 lives)?

But he had to win less series.
The logic of the format is to narrow down to the best 2 players and make them play one series fair and square to decide the champion.

The logic of the format is that you get 2 chances to be eliminated. The person who makes it to the end without being eliminated twice is the winner.
If you do an ACTUAL double elimination tournament, that is.

This format is designed to be a mess where not getting eliminated doesn't really benefit you.

If you give one extra life to forGG, then its unfair that Life had to beat Taeja in the losers bracket.
But i do agree the format is a mess.


Not necessarily. Life already lost...so why should ForGG only lose once and be out?

I already explained, if forGG have an extra life then its unfair that Life had to win an extra series vs Taeja.
Its ALSO unfair that forGG have a single life, but giving him an extra life is not a fix.
edit: in other worlds, i dislike the format, but the players are aware of all that so its all game.
In PvZ the zerg can make the situation spire out of control but protoss can adept to the situation.
Gotnerves
Profile Joined August 2012
56 Posts
November 29 2014 20:49 GMT
#2619
On November 30 2014 05:47 vult wrote:
1-0 in a bo7 for the WB winner is the best solution in the least amount of games. I think the most optimal solution is 2-0 I'm Bo9 but that's a lot of games. That way the LB player has to win a BO5 and a BO3 to win the tourney pretty much.



Patriots should have started up 14-0 against the Giants the Year they never lost a game.
kaykoose
Profile Joined February 2014
United States2302 Posts
November 29 2014 20:50 GMT
#2620
On November 30 2014 05:49 Gotnerves wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2014 05:47 vult wrote:
1-0 in a bo7 for the WB winner is the best solution in the least amount of games. I think the most optimal solution is 2-0 I'm Bo9 but that's a lot of games. That way the LB player has to win a BO5 and a BO3 to win the tourney pretty much.



Patriots should have started up 14-0 against the Giants the Year they never lost a game.


I wish TT. Just brought back some bad memories
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